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Cheats never prosper..
Robot doping!
I earned my Tron bike over 14 months of effort. They should throw the eBook at him.
Holy shit, I didn't realise it was such a thing. Get out there and race with real people. That's where its really at surely? Even if it's a cat b downhill race like we were at last sunday, its gotta be better than "racing" on a simulator.
Apparently he lied about his weight
National Rank: 77
Get out there and race with real people
He's ranked 77th in UK outdoor And had a 2nd in one stage of the Ovo tour. I think he's ok for that aspect
He’s ranked 77th in UK outdoor
Fair play to the lad...
But that wasnt enough and he wasnt good enough to be top 10 so he cheated on a simulator. What a tool. Did his mum come in to the garage and cheer him on whilst he was on the "home straight" of a virtual stage? Not quite the same is it?
Apparently he lied about his weight
no, he used a programme to ride his avatar up and down AduZ to gain the Tron bike, which he then used in the finals, Ian Bibby was on a Tron bike also, Jeffers just went early in the sprint,
it was live on BT with everyone using calibrated turbos after a weigh in, in a studio, not in his garage at home
1h40m for the last 1km
Apparently he lied about his weight
If you read the story, he used a bot to ride long distances at high power and low weight, thereby shortcutting the acquisition of the Tron bike, which he used to assist his qualification.
What I don't understand is why they didn't just impose a standard bike on participants in the qualifiers, and why bother acquiring the Tron bike? Surely he could just have used the bot in the qualifier, if racing remotely? How did the qualification process actually work?
I didn't even realise that the bikes performed differently until recently, and thought they were just cosmetic. I'm still riding the white starter bike with ordinary wheels on principle...
I didn’t even realise that the bikes performed differently until recently, and thought they were just cosmetic. I’m still riding the white starter bike with ordinary wheels on principle…
there's naff all in it
4 seconds over 35 minutes at 300w separate the top 9 fastest frames
\
https://zwiftinsider.com/fastest-framesold/
Makes sense. Who wants to ride indoors anyway? LOL.
Did his mum come in to the garage and cheer him on whilst he was on the “home straight” of a virtual stage? Not quite the same is it?
I'm guessing you never saw the actual scale of the event and being on live TV on BT sport.
Plus the e rules book was written after he was "gifted" the ebike. Sounds like a bit of a witch hunt to me. Think they would have preferred a big team rider to have won
Blimey I'm amazed the UCI are in on this stuff. It's only a game after all.
I see, didn't realise that they used different bikes in the live final. Seems like a schoolboy error by BC and Zwift not to have standardised them.
No I genuinely didn't and I can't believe it's that big a thing. Obviously it is and I was piss taking re his mum in the garage but that's what I assumed. I just find it a bit odd. Imagine running 100m sprints on calibrated tread mills, people would always question the calibration if say someone like Usain was roundly beaten.
DCRainmaker with the facts
Blimey I’m amazed the UCI are in on this stuff. It’s only a game after all
Tell that to the riders from 25+ pro teams from teams like Canyon, Dimension Data etc etc who've raced in these 'games'
Blimey I’m amazed the UCI are in on this stuff. It’s only a game after all
It's an obvious new market so it's not surprising the UCI are interested. They started the world Fondo series after sportives got really popular.
It's not the first crossover between real and virtual competition. I think there was an esport motor racing competition recently where the winners got a place on a real team. They've done the same with Zwift to recruit riders for a couple of cycling teams.
I think they’ve got previous form with him over Cam blatantly ignoring the no camera rules in crits for his YouTube channel. So harks of a witch hunt.
As usual, and as with the camera issue, BC come out of it looking like short sighted luddites.
And it would be interesting to know who tipped them off too.
A number of riders have got pro contracts off the back of the zwift academy. One of the women was doing really well? Canyon SRAM team took them?
Agree they should have been on standard bikes and probably should have thought of the rules before the event. Makes it simpler.
Hilarious! 🤣
Ahhh so that was what the bike with the dayglow tyres was that flew past me on the NYC KOM this evening. New to Zwift and I'd never seen one before.
Jeez now I'm lusting after bloody pixels!
Should have all been on the same bikes. This is BC shutting the gate long after the horse left. Probably as a result of them not knowing how to standardise the system for the event. All the turbos were calibrated. But the algorithm for speed for power was not the same for all riders. That makes no sense.
Do they use different metrics for distance on the indoor rowing championship? Exactly.
Well, that turns a mildly ridiculous "sport" into a bit of a laughing stock, doesn't it?
Well done everyone.
Who would have thought pretendy racing would get so serious? 🙂
Still, dopes will dope...
The Sports industry is worth around 600 billion and the global games industry around 130 billion. We are in very early embryonic days but the naysayers on here thinking this is a joke are very very wrong. ESports are going to be massive. Our children are already as familiar with gamers as they are with sportspeople, perhaps more so. Combining the two is a natural progression.
Essentially this is the same as using a bike he knicked 6 months earlier to win a race. A bike with some small adv but the same as some of the other competitors were using.
He still won the race fair and square, but they are saying he broke some ethics, which is fair enough. Especially as most view esports skeptically as open to the sort of cheating he used to get it in the first place, essentially hacking the system with a bot.
I earned my Tron bike over 14 months of effort. They should throw the eBook at him.
🙂
Lol @ flashy!
Winston, Esports can be as massive as they like, it's still a nonsense.
I was reet guid at Daley Thomson decathlon on my vic20, feel really cheated that UK athletics never gave me the call.
I was reet guid at Daley Thomson decathlon on my vic20, feel really cheated that UK athletics never gave me the call
The difference is, on Zwift you're still using your legs. The fast boys indoors are fast boys outdoor too. Riders like Ian Bibby, his HR still hits the same highs and his legs still go round with the same efforts.
Ride it like you stole it. pic.twitter.com/TdslhZJr1v
https://twitter.com/ZwiftNews/status/1180265351440982016
Ride it like you hacked it, more like.
He got the bike before the championships apparently....
Do these guys pay for their zwift? Just a silly question that popped in my head.
Ethically I can see how he's on shaky ground but competitively I don't see an issue as it was never a level playing field. It's not like he cheated in the race but used a glitch to avoid grinding for a better item. Happens all the time, if UCI want to to be involved in esports they had better get someone to administer competitions who knows what they are doing.
Like others have said this should have been done in a level playing field, it's not difficult to run fully unlocked competition accounts for these sort of things.
I think there was an esport motor racing competition recently where the winners got a place on a real team.
The Nissan Development Academy and Sony have been doing this via Gran Turismo for years now.
it's a big "meh" from me
BC should've left it to zwift, who should've given him a "special" bike & kit for all future races
Why is it less of a joke just because there’s a lot of money in it though? Or is money everything?
What a gimlet.
"But, but it's not cheating as the rules didn't exist when I got the bike and and and I offered to help British Cycling but they didn't want my help, and and and other people cheat so there, and and and it's not fair because I spent loads of time and money on this..."
Cretin.
Its pretendy bicycles. Whether or not a small amount of people have turned pro off the back of its is immaterial, it's just tarted up Spin Cycles hooked up to a computer game. "Power ups"? Why not include a banana skin launcher and go full-on Mario Cart?
Why are the participants not wearing helmets? 😂
He broke a rule that didn't exist when he broke it. To gain an advantage which didn't give him an advantage because other bikes are just as fast and the differences are minimal. And when he broke the rule, he wasn't apparently even intending to race the GB-e-sports champs, so arguably wasn't even trying to gain an advantage. Would he have been sanctioned if he hadn't used the Tron bike in the actual race? You know, the bike that didn't really give him any advantage?
Don't get me wrong, it's naughty to cheat to get the Tron bike when other people are working hard for it, but the rest of it seems a bit Orwellian.
It’s an obvious new market so it’s not surprising the UCI are interested. They started the world Fondo series after sportives got really popular.
I don’t know much about this roady lark but I’d have thought they’d have a healthier diet than dipping their food in melted cheese?
Do they have to use an electric car to follow the race, and still stand out of the sunroof, or can a hologram do that
Several people have said “they should all be on the same bikes / level playing field”. I’m curious why - there’s no similar rule in real world cycling, from olympics to WC. In other esports there’s no requirement to use same keyboard / mouse.
Because if a bike has perks and is unavailable other than through unlocking then it gives an unfair advantage.
Real world conditions are different and not really comparable, neither is the keyboard and mouse (unless it has macro commands built in which may be disallowed).
Because if a bike has perks and is unavailable other than through unlocking then it gives an unfair advantage.
Zwinftinsider has run a load of tests on the fastest bikes / wheels etc on different types of virtual terrain etc. The differences aren minimal, particularly once you factor in the effects of drafting etc.
More debatable is the use of power-ups in Zwift racing. I can't think of a real life scenario where a rider can drastically reduce their air resistance or effective weight or create the drafting effect of sitting behind a Ford Transit for 30 seconds at random. How can you have a fair sprint finish in 'serious' Zwift race if one of the riders can drop an aero power-up?
Far more benefit from those than the 'cheat' Tron bike, but completely legal and a bit of a nonsense if you want this stuff to be taken seriously.
Does this mean the recent world championships are going to be null? Im fairly certain some of the riders were riding bikes theyd been given. And the people giving them admit theyre a lot more than 4 seconds an hour faster!
As mentioned above, e-sport is already big business and it's not going to go away, there's a huge untapped market there and potentially millions of pounds at stake in sponsorships, endorsements and so on so it's not surprising that the UCI want to be part of it - after all part of their remit is to broaden access to cycling, they already have their cycling for all, they've got the Gran Fondo series...
Hats off to British Cycling for recognising the opportunities and getting involved with Zwift so quickly - normally they're accused of being luddites, behind the times etc so being there at the dawn of it all is a pretty good string to their bow.
However what this case shows is that maybe in the rush to get it to market, into the regulation books and create a championships that possibly some rules, loopholes, regulations and "cheats" were overlooked. The fact they've acted on it is good as well, it shows willingness to be fair and open. It's also got people talking about it which has to be a good thing.
Because if a bike has perks and is unavailable other than through unlocking then it gives an unfair advantage.
But if the unlocking of better equipment is "part of the sport" he clearly cheated. E sport is new and driven by game time to generate revenue. It's no suprise that game time is a required element even at elite level.
I just don’t get this, use zwift to keep fitness up as it’s easy to access but as a competition it’s just a fitness test and nothing else, I prefer to watch a sport where there is some skill to be had from the actual riding aspect certainly in technical off road sections but I guess there’s a whole section of cycling that are only interested in fitness and not actual riding ability and skill and zwift appeals to them
I just don’t get this, use zwift to keep fitness up as it’s easy to access but as a competition it’s just a fitness test and nothing else, I prefer to watch a sport where there is some skill to be had from the actual riding aspect certainly in technical off road sections but I guess there’s a whole section of cycling that are only interested in fitness and not actual riding ability and skill and zwift appeals to them
Where does zwift racing sit in relation to the hour record, individual pursuit, or rollapaluza racing in your mind?
Just turn it all over to Peleton. They’ll sort it out.
I don't understand zwift so please ignore my ignorance.
So, he was filmed winning a race, on a bike he gained from using a bot which everyone else had the same bike. The bot wasn't illegal when he used it and from all the cycling he's done anyway he would have probably have unlocked it by now. So he won fair and square on the day but they then changed the rules and they retrospectively sanctioned him because tgrt don't really like him because he breaks the rules on streaming videos to his followers on utube?
So is zwift like all the other games, if I have real money I can just unlock all the best stuff without hard graft and beat the people who just play it and haven't unlocked the best gear?
Is it like gta where a level 3 player goes out and buys a flying bike with a shark card his rich dad bought him and blows me up after I spent years grinding to buy a helicopter?
I just thought you did virtual racing on a level playing field and everyone just lied about how much they weighed.
For me and me only I want to see a skill involved and any event not just be a fitness or strength contest. Most road racing is a fitness contest whereas something like a downhill mtb race the skill level matters just as much.
I’d prefer to see bravery and skills rewarded over fitness, zwift doesn’t reward either of those so shouldn’t be a sport tbh.
I’m sure I’m in a minority here with this view 😀
Are there also treadmill running contests?
I know indoor rowing is a thing because of Wiggo taking it up a while back.
Any other pretendy sports?
It’s laughable all these people saying there is no skill in zwift racing. Have you actually tried it? It requires pretty much all the same skills as real riding (except bike handling) and also some not required like timing the use power ups for maximum benefit.
@couchy Zwift racing does have a skill element. Like road racing, there is drafting. So the bunch moves faster than you can ride solo.
So how and where you choose to spend your energy to outpace the rest decides the winner- not outright power.
I’m often .5 w/kg down on those around me in a Zwift race because I’ve learned how to push just hard enough to get back into a bunch etc etc. My power trace is often much closer to an IRL race than other people who ride it more like an ERG mode TT.
The differences aren minimal,
Sorry, that should read: 'the differences ARE minimal'.
He won't get in Crosshair. He won't by get road racing, team time trials, or probably even 6 days track racing.
If it doesn't have mud, roots or rocks, it doesn't exist.
Funniest part, he only rides an ebike
So is zwift like all the other games, if I have real money I can just unlock all the best stuff without hard graft and beat the people who just play it and haven’t unlocked the best gear?
No, because the differences in performance between the top-end bikes are really small and you can't buy them with real money anyway. In the end the fitness of the rider and his or her ability to work out effective tactics is what wins races.
The main random, as per my previous post, is allowing riders to use random power-ups in some races, which means they climb significantly faster, have a lower drag co-efficient or draft more efficiently for 30 seconds or so.
If you basically have to have an aero power-up to win any sort of sprint finish it makes the whole thing a bit of a mockery / lottery / farce.
Can't for the life of me work out why they allowed PUs in a serious event anyway
Because it adds a chance element to it that reflects the vagrancies of outdoor riding? Punctures, mechanicals, weather and wind etc.
Also adds a bit of skill/knowledge requirement as you can either keep the original one you get or risk changing each lap for a better one or even get the one you want sorted during warm up.
Because it adds a chance element to it that reflects the vagrancies of outdoor riding? Punctures, mechanicals, weather and wind etc.
Also adds a bit of skill/knowledge requirement as you can either keep the original one you get or risk changing each lap for a better one or even get the one you want sorted during warm up
Yes, but no, not in a proper sanctioned event with a title/award/prize.
Can’t for the life of me work out why they allowed PUs in a serious event anyway
I read that as 'PJs' and thought riders should be allowed to wear what the hell they want 🙂
All seems a bit silly to me. He won the actual event on the day where the organisers were checking for weight doping or trainers throwing out wrongly calibrated power/watts.
But he just so happened to have used a cheat to get a certain bike that all the others on the day were using ... I would have thought the organisers would have ensured all contestants were using, or had access to, the same equipment anyways.
He obviously proved he deserved to be in the final because he won it.
Daft that the sanction for such a minor technical infraction is carried over into the real world as well, especially as it appears to have been applied retrospectively. Six month ban from virtual racing, fine, but chucking him out of all actual racing is just crazy.
I didn't realise people took this so seriously. It gives me a business idea haha 🙂
As a service to Zwifters I will do weight and power spot checks/verification on people with suspicious results. The suspect must consent to the checks of course and they would be conducted in the most friendly of manners. No personal details of suspect (address etc) would be shared. My fee to be paid by the person(s) flagging up- e.g. 10 people chip in £1 each. Trials in East London to commence shortly 🙂
[Not totally serious but possibly there is some means of "crowd sourced" checks]
1h40m for the last 1km
I could beat that, how do I enter?
Ridiculous, and how on earth are a national federation running a national event on a private service which offers advantages to its regular clients?
When I say skills I mean physical and actual bike control preferably with an element of bravery thrown in. Video games even ones which require fitness don’t come into this category and zwift is a video game, like I say plenty of folk like video games, just cos this one is about cycling doesn’t make it any better. As a training tool I can see it’s benefits.
6 month ban including real world cycling is ridiculas. Don't they normally just fine you 200 Swiss?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-disqualified-from-vuelta-a-espaa-for-holding-onto-team-car/
It requires pretty much all the same skills as real riding (except bike handling)
🙂
When I say skills I mean physical and actual bike control preferably with an element of bravery thrown in. Video games even ones which require fitness don’t come into this category and zwift is a video game, like I say plenty of folk like video games, just cos this one is about cycling doesn’t make it any better. As a training tool I can see it’s benefits.
I wish they'd gameify it properly. Equip the bikes with grenades, armour and plasma cannon that sort of thing. Let you punch and kick other riders. Implement armour and first aid packs power-ups etc. Bonuses for taking out other riders on the descents and throw in some rogue cars, horses, camera bikes on the course. I'd expect some initial resistance from the girly swot, snowflake types, but violence and drama is just part of cycling and we need to embrace that. YMMV 🙂
Bonu
So what is the concept of an "aero power-up" (or whatever it is) based on?
Did they really include guff like that in the UCI sanctioned Zwift contest?
Wouldn't Zwift be better if you had to do a fuelling strategy and could get mechanicals in some way?
But then would they let you draft back to the bunch behind cars or would that be cheating?
Hmm.
What baffles me more than all of the e- cheating was the people spectating. I mean, really! What could a person get out of standing in a room watching a sweaty smelly bloke on a glorified spinning bike?
Please, please tell me they were close family!
Is this really what our sport has come to?
It requires pretty much all the same skills as real riding (except bike handling)
Not sure pedalling or handling vast swathes of boredom are really skills tbh.
Warhammer on bikes! They should have axes, magic potions, and war machines! 🤣
No, it's a new sub section. How many people bother their arse watching one hour records? Some sweaty bloke riding in circles in a room for an hour, yeah brilliant.
I’m still amazed Cam couldn’t just ring Zwift up and ask for the Tron bike. I know he’s done work for them in the past and *maybe* even some ‘sponsored’ use of Zwift on his YouTube channel. He also featured in a Zwift Advert (possibly even on TV?).
NathB and I went to watch a live race in London when Jesper Anker was working for Zwift. The one that was televised on BIKE channel. A couple of local riders were there (Tim Cartwright and Rachael Elliot) and it was cool to meet the Guerra’s IRL and some well known team members.
Sadly, the poxy venue was shocking (some weird tunnel place) and the riders were in the next room so we had to just watch the screen 🤦🏻♂️🤣🤣
I did feel like some weird uber-geek and prob wouldn’t go to another one.
I also met up with a load of fellow Team TFC guys at the Bristol Zwift event (like the ones they do in bike shops around the world) and that was fun racing up the KOM in front of an audience. I’ve also raced a few crits with other guys from my virtual team.
@couchy I know what you mean but this is not meant to replace any of that. And for people with a day job that means they can’t risk getting injured- this is an awesome way to still get the thrill of racing.
I first raced on Zwift in 2015 on the second day I had it. Back when we just met at the start line and someone typed ‘GO!’ 🤣 And I was struck by how the feeling of competition when pushing yourself next to someone else was just like I’d had in Gorrick races etc.
The biggest irony for fans of Weeksy’s epic thread was that he thought it was ludicrous 🤣🤣🤣
Not sure pedalling or handling vast swathes of boredom are really skills tbh.
If your bored on zwift or the turbo in general then you’re not doing it right /trying hard enough.
Don’t judge everyone on your own week mental fortitude.