[Closed] Zoologists to the forum! interbreeding question

ike, why aren’t there more ‘ligers’?

In the wild, neither lions nor tigers can afford the airfare to get to another continent.

So you’re saying it’s because they’re lazy and just need to show some ‘get up and go’?

Okay, but I know that in captivity they can interbreed, but this does not seem to happen between other cat types.

Anyone else disappointed that this isn't a Royal Family thread?

What do you get if you cross an elephant with a hedgehog?
Elephant hedgehog sine theta

Because species aren't as distinct as we used to be taught, they're a continuum - e.g. homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis successfully interbred to create me and most Europeans.

Narwhal and Beluga are in the same family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monodontidae

Okay, but I know that in captivity they can interbreed, but this does not seem to happen between other cat types.

There are only 5 big cats (snow and normal leopards (panthers are leopards) and jaguars) cheetahs and montian lions are more closely related to the moggy than the panthera family I think. So its not exactly a big pool and i can't imagine zookeeping 101 promotes mixing them together in captivity.

Tigards exist but i think lions and leopards are more likely to batter the shit out of each other than bang each others brains out due to competition in their natural environment.

For two animals to breed they obviously need to compatible, but also there needs to be an attraction. A peacock might be able to breed with a pheasant* but if the pheasant doesn't get turned on by the peacock's display, nothing's going to happen.

I think you're also thinking of species as some kind of rigid, clearly defined thing. A dog is a dog, a Canis familiaris, while a wolf is a Canis lupus, completely separate. Which isn't the case - it's a bell curve of genes, and when you get to the end of the curve you'll find dogs that could easily be called wolves, and vice versa.

Edit

* I doubt they can breed, in captivity or otherwise. It's just an example 🙂

Apologies, I thought being brought up in the Fens would finally give me some useful insight to a forumites question.

this does not seem to happen between other cat types.

Domestic cats can breed with European Wildcats, which are a separate species. Domestic cats being descended most likely from African wildcats.

As above, species can inter-breed if they are close enough. Not sure how many examples there are in the wild though, unless maybe hybridisation is how new species might occur?

Re species differentiation - there are loads of species of bird that can only be differentiated by tiny markings, and yet a Pug is the sale species as a Great Dane and a Bulldog.

For two animals to breed they obviously need to compatible,

Not fully true, Horses and Donkeys, horses and zebra, can breed but the offspring are sterile. So are they compatible, not really.

I walked an Alpaca today, learnt you can breed them with a Llama.

Firstly, ignore canis familiaris 'breed's as they're unique in the whole animal kingdom in having teh widest range of phenotypes whilst technically still being the same species - blame millennia of domestication.

There are literally countless examples of viable chimeras that can can be crossed within the class mammalia, Horses/Donkeys/Zebras, Domestic cat/serval, Camelids, Bears.

As has been said, the genotypes will obviously need to be similar enough. The key is that the resultant offspring are rarely healthy or have naturally desirable characteristics. Typically infertile and flawed. The don't exist in nature because; Evolution. That's assuming the foetus survives to full term & births successfully.

Moreover, geographic isolation and behavioural/physical limitations typically prevent them from existing naturally or at all... can you see a tiger mating with Tiddles? Could Tiddles then give birth to the kits? It doesn't mean a viable hybrid couldn't *theoretically* exist.

Have you considered that you may be a Chimera yourself? Current thinking is that homo sapiens interbred with Neanderthals.

unless maybe hybridisation is how new species might occur?

It's caused problems in classifying species - but no, they would be considered a hybrid of two species.

Simian is essentially correct in that two animals need to have genotypes (chromosomes) that are similar enough to recombine successfully to create a viable offspring. This is why so many somewhat disimilar animals such as horses and donkeys are only partially successful and produce infertile offspring.

However genetically speaking these are not chimeras since genetic chimeras are organisms made up of a mixture of cells showing two distinct genotypes not where the animal is the result of a inter species cross and the DNA of every cell is a mix of their genotypes.

DNA phylogenetics is cool to us Science geeks!

Oh and current thinking is that we are all a bit mosaic not chimeric

@morecashthandash Genuine lol at that

being brought up in the Fens

This whole post deserved more recognition

Why can some mammals interbreed while others can’t?

Because Biology ain't Physics, its far more complicated!

Not fully true, Horses and Donkeys, horses and zebra, can breed but the offspring are sterile. So are they compatible, not really.

They're still breeding, so by my (restricted) definition they're "compatible". I very much doubt a horse ever considers whether their offspring is fertile or not - just that they've got pregnant and produced a sprog.

@tonyg2003 My bad, incorrect use of the term Chimera 🙂

A Brief History of Everyone who Ever Lived by Adam Rutherford answers this question. It's complicated

Domestic cats being descended most likely from African wildcats.

I’m not so sure. Our cat obviously descends from a hugely long line of complete idiots.

As people have said above 3 main factors.

1. Geography - Will the animals ever meet in the wild?

2. Sex Appeal - Will they recognise each other as possible mates or will they try and eat each other?

3. Chromosomes - Do the egg and sperm cells have the same number of chromosomes? Humans have 23, horses have 32 and donkeys have 31. So donkeys and horses are close enough to create a mule. But the resultant mule will likely be sterile. The human and horse chromosomes are too far apart to be viable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zghqfcw/revision/3

From memory the Victorians were quite fond of crossbreeding different animals.

All the examples to this point are mammals  - are there examples of hybrid fish or fowl? (Or fish and fowl - the chicken of the sea)

Fish hybrids are very common, roach, bream and rudd frequently hybridise in uk waters

Geography – Will the animals ever meet in the wild?

Before cycling people used to marry partners from nearby villages, post cycling that range extended greatly and inyerbreeding reduced.

We just need to teach big cats to ride bikes.

All the examples to this point are mammals – are there examples of hybrid fish or fowl? (

Ducks hybridise a lot. Ruddy ducks were introduced to UK and are fine here but when they head south they hybridise with some rare duck, I forget what it is.edit with white headed ducks in spain

We just need to teach big cats to ride bikes.

Never gonna happen

You get lions in India. But they don't interbreed with tigers as the latter aren't a pack animal.

See also ocicats, and I'm trying to think what the other domestic cat x spotty killing machine hybrids are called. I went to look at an ocicat somebody was keeping in a flat, and trying to give away. It was destroying approximately a sofa a day. I declined

My chickens and guinea fowl can interbreed but their resultant offspring will be infertile.

Not that it matters to me - I'm an equal opportunities omnivore.

Elephant hedgehog sine theta

Under-appreciated contribution.
Deserved more.

I get it when we’re talking about dolphins and whales; they’re completely different species. But why not one type of whale with another?

Dolphins are Whales!

Before cycling people used to marry partners from nearby villages, post cycling that range extended greatly and inyerbreeding reduced.

Very little cycling infrastructure in the Fens #justsaying

You get lions in India

Not very many though, sadly.

Camelids, Bears.

I read that as you were crossing bears and camels and wondering what weird shit you were looking at.

All the examples to this point are mammals – are there examples of hybrid fish or fowl? (

In the Galapagos there are blue footed Boobies and red footed boobies but they don't cross breed to make purple footed boobies. Which is a shame because I'm sure many people would like to look at a wider variety of boobies.

Not fully true, Horses and Donkeys, horses and zebra, can breed but the offspring are sterile. So are they compatible, not really.

But they still got their oats...

IGMC

I walked an Alpaca today, learnt you can breed them with a Llama.

Weirdest threesome ever.

See also ocicats, and I’m trying to think what the other domestic cat x spotty killing machine hybrids are called. I went to look at an ocicat somebody was keeping in a flat, and trying to give away. It was destroying approximately a sofa a day. I declined

Ocicats just look wild, but are 100% moggy. Savannahs are a domestic crossed with a Serval.

Dolphins are Whales!

Nar, not on Porpoise?

(A dolphin x False Killer Whale is a Wholphin)

We just need to teach big cats to ride bikes.

Never gonna happen

You can teach a cat to do anything it wants to do.

.

A sheep crossed with a kangaroo is a Woolly Jumper.

a sheep crossed with a cow results in a baaaad mooood

Dolphins are Whales!

“Dolphins were monkeys, that didn’t like the land. Walked back to the water, walked back cross the sand.”

I know that apparently closely related insects often can’t interbreed because of incompatible genitalia.

Meanwhile, in the Fens...

*High sixes another Fen slogger*

Dolphins are Whales!

But not the same species.

I know that apparently closely related insects often can’t interbreed because of incompatible genitalia.

Same problem with Mermaids

But not the same species.

No, neither are different types of Whales. A sperm whale is not the same species as a blue whale etc.

But why in this case and not in others?

Sensible answer? Because DNA. Remember you get half from your dad, half from your mum, if those two sides can't get together...then do not pass go, do not collect £200.00

Urrggh . . . this thread keeps reminding me of a revolting story I read recently.
I'm not going to share a DM link, but just google "Claire Goodier" if you want to know more.

Same problem with Mermaids

Didn't mermaids lure sailors onto the rocks to do nasty things to them? And not nasty in a good way, but nasty in a way that doesn't involve interspecies DNA sharing.

And not nasty in a good way

I think mermaids would just have to lay a pile of eggs and hope the sailors are turned on enough to jizz all over them.

I think mermaids would just have to lay a pile of eggs and hope the sailors are turned on enough to jizz all over them.

After 6 months at sea on a boat......

just google “Claire Goodier” if you want to know more.

Don't. Just....don't. 🙈🤢

Urrggh . . . this thread keeps reminding me of a revolting story I read recently.
I’m not going to share a DM link, but just google “Claire Goodier” if you want to know more.

No thanks, but congratulations on coming out as a Daily Mail reader.

I think mermaids would just have to lay a pile of eggs and hope the sailors are turned on enough to jizz all over them.

This adds a little something to the next occasion that I pick up a mermaids purse on the beach and show it to my kids..