[Closed] Zimbabwe

Uber expensive paper clips have destabilised the currency and toppled the government.

Makes you think.

I hope Mugabe gets to spend a few years in a jail cell before he dies.

wwaswas - Member
I hope Mugabe gets to spend a few years in a jail cell before he dies.

Maybe, but I doubt that's how it will end, first and foremost, he's 93, he won't last very long as a prisoner. Secondly that's not usually how Coups work, he'll be captured, usually by solders, but somehow they'll 'lose' him to an angry mob who'll drag him around for a bit until he either dies from being manhandled or someone shoots him in the back of the head with a pistol.

He was lining up his successor, so I imagine this is the moment to do it.

Not happening according to latest reports - just a power struggle between ZanuPF and Mrs Mugabe

Is she the one holding the purse strings?

Is happening reports of lots of military vehicles heading for Harare. I think the generals don't want a typist telling them what to do. Timing looks good as ZANU PF are fighting amongst themselves for a successor

The Liberation old guard versus the new wave younger types.

The old guard have the advantage experience of ruthlessness from when they fought to free their country.

Mad Bob has stolen pretty much all the money and sent it overseas. I'm sure he'll be fine.

What does RT say is happening?

Mad Bob has stolen pretty much all the money and sent it overseas. I'm sure he'll be fine.

True, but he can't spend it if he is hanging from a lamppost.

The only problem is that there is probably no one with a better track record of human rights that is in a position to take over.

He's only got to sprint down to the border and Zuma will welcome him with open arms. Partners in crime.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
Coup happening?

Reports of tanks heading in to Harare.

Interesting but normal in that part of the world in terms of power struggle.

I just let them get on with it ...

🙂

Waterkloof AFB in Pretoria is on standby. They've had the call.

spekkie - Member
Waterkloof AFB in Pretoria is on standby. They've had the call.

I want to see Saab JAS 39 Gripen vs SAM in action.

Coz Gripen has not been properly tested yet. 🙂

My sister lived opposite Waterkloof back in 2010 when the football World Cup was in SA. Jets were flying out and monitoring airspace during every match. It was a great few weeks for noisy entertainment 🙂

Bob must have been spinning in his grave for years over Mugabe. Didn't hear him spinning when I visited, mind 😆

It disgusts me how the west have allowed white genocide to go unchallenged under the racist despot.

enfht - Member

It disgusts me how the west have allowed white genocide to go unchallenged under the racist despot.

Fascinating history, Zimbabwe.

I've been pretty much glued to what's happening to be honest, the Guardian seems to have good coverage

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/14/tensions-rise-in-zimbabwe-as-military-drives-through-outskirts-of-capital

Hopefully it's a step towrds a more representative and economically sustainable outcome rather than a descent into a destructive and costly civil war...

Yeah military coups usually lead to a fair and democratic government.

It disgusts me how the west have allowed white genocide to go unchallenged under the racist despot.

How predictable. It disgusts me that it takes "white genocide", to wind you up.

10 quid says you're a white south african.

Predictable is predictable. I bet 10 euros that deep down you feel its somehow justified.

More apathy...there are a billion other things to get outraged about first.

Go back to your hole in Stormfront.

It disgusts me how the west have allowed white genocide to go unchallenged under the racist despot.

How do you fee about the empire out of interest , slavery and The Raj - go on give us your full ire

Which of you is sending your Key To The City back in protest?

I was very fortunate to spend some time there when I was younger and found the country and people amazing.
What has happened to the country is terrible and will take decades, if ever, to repair when the country is finally allowed to have a democratically elected leader.
Such a beautiful country, I would love to visit again one day but feel it would be a shadow of its former self.

enfht - Member
...It disgusts me how the west have allowed white genocide to go unchallenged under the racist despot.

Aye, ye'd think they'd have learned how to do it properly when they had the examples of skilled operators like the Germans with the Herrero, the Belgians in the Congo, or the British with the proto concentration camps for the Boers.

Bloody amateurs.

You self hating deluded fools. If only your grandparents were dragged from their beds in the middle of the night and hacked to death by a baying mob you might not be so quick to ridicule others. So easy to do from the safety of your keyboards, you pussies.

Not getting the hate for enfht here. Are we saying that genocide against white people is OK as some sort of retribution for crimes carried out by Europeans against the indigenous people who's countries they [s]invaded[/s] brought civilisation to?

Surely killing someone for their ethnicity is completely unjustified under any circumstances or am I missing something?

I suspect who ever comes next is going to be little better than Mugabe TBH

The guilt of history hangs so heavy on some, that they will excuse even the most barbaric of acts.

Not doing a great job as a peace envoy is old Bobbie

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-41992351
So now they have him?
Time is up for him

Are there any leaders in Africa that are democratically elected and not corrupt ? Have any ever lost an election and gone without kicking and screaming ? I cant think of any.

Whoever takes over from the current one will be similar, sadly.

I went to school there during the troubles in the late 70's early 80's and Mugabe was then seen quite differently.

Quick send boris to sort it all out.

You self hating deluded fools.

That's definitely the best way to convince everyone of the merits of your argument.

@Trimix there have been a few:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Prize

Being democratically elected and voluntarily stepping down are two of the criteria of eligibility.

BBC quoting a parody Zanu PF twitter account, the more interconnected the world comes, the shallower the journalistic output.

Looks like the Generals are in charge now and Mugabe has been detained. Interesting times.

BBC quoting a parody Zanu PF twitter account

BBC researcher should get a severe reprimand for that! Looking back on the twitter feed there is some obvious parody such as this:

"Retweet if you want a free farm. (Sorry No Whites)"

[url] https://twitter.com/zanu_pf/status/805129123874172928 [/url]

CFH gets the news scoop of the year award, saw it here first !

Mefty yup spectacularly shallow, they’ll report its trending next after a few hundred shares.

Not getting the hate for enfht here. Are we saying that genocide against white people is OK as some sort of retribution for crimes carried out by Europeans against the indigenous people who's countries they invaded brought civilisation to?

Should they be automatically be grateful that we brought them western style of civilisation? Why could they have not modernised by themselves, much like Japan? Quite often western powers colonised places that already had civilisation anyway.

The Philippines, bloodily kicked out the Spanish and they had every right to. Was that genocide?

But to answer your question, enfht only cares when its an opportunity to criticise politically correct lefties.

Looks like the Generals are in charge now and Mugabe has been detained

and his wife has done a runner... which doesn't look so good for her faction of the party.

Also, genocidewatch doesn't have Zimbabwe listed as goibg full blown genocidey yet.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/zimbabwe.html

So Im not even sure it's, "white genocide".

Go to Ethiopia, the only African country that was never properly colonised, and you will still find corruption so you can't blame that on the British or any other European coloniser.

Master Blaster 2017 remix.[img] [/img]

@Tom

The civilised bit was tongue in cheek, apologies if you missed that.

Butchering people based on ethnicity is wrong. Invading and imposing your values is wrong. How is the Filipinos kicking out an occupying force anyway related to dragging farmers, who by the way are providing employment and produce, out of their homes and killing them?

Also, genocidewatch doesn't have Zimbabwe listed as goibg full blown genocidey yet.

That's a relief! As long as they keep within the limits and don't murder or rape too many eh?

That's a relief! As long as they keep within the limits and don't murder or rape too many eh?

Also probably means they didn't talk to the Ndebele.

Coyote - Member

Are we saying that genocide against white people is OK as some sort of retribution for crimes carried out by Europeans against the indigenous people who's countries they invaded brought civilisation to?

Surely killing someone for their ethnicity is completely unjustified under any circumstances or am I missing something?

Here's the thing, if Japanese or Iranian or Inuits had committed the kind of genocidal atrocities the British did in Southern Africa then their descendants would be reaping the whirlwind in Zimbabwe now, so it's not purely about whites vs blacks.

That doesn't make it right, but when you are a 0.4% minority, sitting on vast estates that your great grandparents stole from the dirt poor 99.6% of what is essentially a failed state what do you expect? The remaining white settlers in Zimbabwe don't deserve to be raped, or tortured or murdered for the sins of their fathers but they should have gotten the **** out of their a long time ago.

I worked with someone who was the senior game keeper at one of Zimbabwe's largest farms and I've heard first hand accounts of what it's like to defend those farms with shotguns. They knew they were on borrowed time.

I've also got several friends who've relocated back to NI from South Africa with their entire extended families because they've foreseen that their way of life is becoming less and less sustainable.

So by violent expulsion of farmers who know how to manage the land and produce an abundance of crops we now have a basket case of a country on it's knees. Smart move by all concerned.

The white farmers are just as Zimbabwean as those doing the evicting. They are not "settlers", they are native.

Whitexit.

The white farmers are just as Zimbabwean as those doing the evicting. They are not "settlers", they are native.

Here's where I disagree, a lot of them were invited there in the 60's - specifically to swell the number of white people in the country, and that white government in power at the time was essentially illegitimate.

How is the Filipinos kicking out an occupying force anyway related to dragging farmers, who by the way are providing employment and produce, out of their homes and killing them?

The Filipino nationalists didn't just kick out an occupying army, they kicked out a lot of the entrenched corrupt Spanish families who provided employment as well (although not all of them, as Mestizos and Spanish clans are still a source of wanton corruption in that country).

Butchering people based on ethnicity is wrong. Invading and imposing your values is wrong.

Which is exactly what White Zimbabweans did, so - I just can't get worked up about it, what comes around goes around etc etc.

[i]Butchering people based on ethnicity is wrong. Invading and imposing your values is wrong.[/i]

Which is exactly what White Zimbabweans did, so - I just can't get worked up about it, what comes around goes around etc etc.

Did you actually read what you just wrote? More to the point, do you seriously believe that? People who are born in a country through no fault of their own are systematically butchered based on their ethnic origin and you don't have a problem with that?

For the "is it reasonable" test substitute one colour/ethnicity and see how the result makes you feel:

The white farmers are just as Zimbabwean as those doing the evicting. They are not "settlers", they are native.

"Here's where I disagree, a lot of them were invited there in the 60's - specifically to swell the number of white people in the country.."

"Here's where I disagree, a lot of them were invited there in the 60's - specifically to swell the number of asian people in the country.."

Tom, what you have given is an exact copy of what the arseholes in Britain First put out arguing that asian people aren't really British and should be "sent back home".

Jimjam:

That doesn't make it right, but when you are a 0.4% minority, sitting on vast estates that your great grandparents stole from the dirt poor 99.6% of what is essentially a failed state what do you expect? The remaining white settlers in Zimbabwe don't deserve to be raped, or tortured or murdered for the sins of their fathers but they should have gotten the **** out of their a long time ago.

[img] [/img]

No it isn't, they were invited on a democratic mandate. Were the ones that moved during the 1960s? Were Asians invited here, specially to subdjugate the native majority? Conflating white settlers who used violence to hold onto their privileged positions, with immigrants in the UK is hilarious... is that how you see them? As bad a white zimabwean racists. Haha... you racist... you.

People who are born in a country through no fault of their own are systematically butchered based on their ethnic origin and you don't have a problem with that?

Perhaps, just perhaps, they shouldn't have tried to keep their hands on ill gotten gains in the first place. I'm not saying they deserved it, it's just that zero ****s are given by me.

cranberry - Member

Jimjam:

[img] [/img]

Cranberry, you're got it barse ackwards I'm afraid. Nazi propaganda created lies that portrayed the Jews as having deprived Germans of their birthrights - this was a complete fallacy. We know as historical fact that the British, Cecil Rhodes and the British South Africa Company swindled Zimbabweans out of their country and it's mineral wealth for 1000 rifles and £100 a month. An agreement they tried to repeal as soon as they realised they'd be conned.

Coyote - Member

The white farmers are just as Zimbabwean as those doing the evicting. They are not "settlers", they are native.

Coyote, if someone managed to rob you of everything you own, and everything you ever could own and as a result your children and your grandchildren ended up destitute, sleeping on the streets, would you want your house and your property returned to your grandchildren if it meant the grandchildren of the thief would lose their "property"?

Zimbabwe was one of Africas most successful countries and the “bread basket” of the region. Now its on its knees, the confiscated farms mainly derelict. Mugabe has enriched himself enormously. Hardly progress whatever went before

OK, I'm out. Obviously there are those on STW who are happy seeing women and children raped and killed because of where they have been born and others who, whilst not necessarily happy, are content to turn a blind eye.

A new low.

Coyote - Member

OK, I'm out. Obviously there are those on STW who are happy seeing women and children raped and killed

Who said that? Also, could you answer my question?

I don't think white genicide is the correct term. It was more a nationalistic move. They first of all told all the non Zimbabwean black Africans to go. They were basically told leave or we won't be responsible for what happens to you. So they went leaving behind their jobs and houses. Next they told the whites to do the same. Most of them left. The ones that remained armed themselves and hired extra security. We know the brutality that happened after that which was horrible.

I'm not condoning what Mugabe did just pointing out it wasn't just a move against white people.

Good to see all this debate about the the evils of colonialism whilst the genocide of Ndebele isn't discussed.

Coyote - Member
OK, I'm out. Obviously there are those on STW who are happy seeing women and children raped and killed because of where they have been born and others who, whilst not necessarily happy, are content to turn a blind eye.

It's not that at all. My family left East Africa in the late 50s. It was general knowledge amongst the whites that the colonial days were coming to an end.

The Mau Mau in Kenya gave a pretty good indication of what the likely scenario would be for any whites who stayed when the local tribes reclaimed their ancestral lands, especially when you consider how the colonials acquired that land. We did not set the bar very high, and it was in living memory.

I think what is being expressed is surprise that any white person expected anything different from what has happened rather than a callous attitude towards them.

@Mefty, another butthurt rightie eh?

We weren't going on about the evils of colonialism, more enfhts outrage over a few hundred farmers being killed as opposed to up to a 100k dying during the ndebele crackdown.

It's all so predictable, it's not because he and a few others care, it's that it's an opportunity for them to have a go at the "pc leftie" brigade.

The point I was making is that there is a clear case of genocide against the Ndebele, but that didn't seem worth discussing, but wouldn't expect you to understand, you are not the sharpest tack etc.

Let's see what happens next. You don't get to be that high up in Mad Bob's army by being a nice guy . . . .

Quick send boris to sort it all out.

Pff, Boris is currently staring at a map wondering where Rhodesia is.

Is it too late to blame all this on Fatcha?

Cougar - Moderator
Pff, Boris is currently staring at a map wondering where Rhodesia is.

Mad Bob has until tomorrow to hand in his notice . . . .

JOHANNESBURG - Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe has been removed as the head of Zanu-PF.
Axed vice president Emmerson Mnangagwa has also been reinstated.
The party has also recalled Mugabe from his position as president and vice secretary.
He has been given until Monday afternoon to hand in his resignation.

It has been handled very calmly so far, but suggestions that if he doesn't resign the army will stop guarding him from the people who want to have a word with him about the manner in which he has been progressive in the last 37 years.

Don't know much about zimbabwe, watched a wee bit of news over the years and have a general sense of mugabe's reign.

Given that it's still going to be zanu that are in charge, what's the likelyhood of all that much changing.

Been watching a few news channels today, and it seems the guy that's going to be taking over isn't example a shining light either? albeit, seems to have a more business and external inward investment friendly outlook.

Still a long way to go for zimbabwe in general I guess? Mugabe is an important symbolic move mind as is stopping his plans for a dynasty I guess..

seems the guy that's going to be taking over isn't example a shining light either?

Another thing that strikes me about the mugabe situation is the importance of revolving and changing governments, sticking to one view point is generally going to descend into crap, on various levels. But seems to me variety of government and regular turnaround is important.

Not just looking at zimbabwe there the likes of cuba, china, russia etc, but even a look closer to home, with less extreme eamples, the thatcher/major governments went on too long, as did blair/brown and theis current tory government is definitely going too long(even though they don't meet the criteria for my next suggested rule.).

Never going to happen, but I wonder, if you get into goverment, should you be barred from the next term, or atleast say a 10 year limit be put on a single party rule. (I await cries of but democwacy....)

Good point 77 but the snag is governments spend the first term trying to undo what has been done by the previous mob and thus only have a 2nd chance usually until the bloody useless electorate, who vote for their own pocket, change their mind no matter who is in.
Maybe the other way round? minimum of 20 years then at least any theory should have a bit of time to work or not.
Zimbabwe? I'll put a quid on riots and degeneration into tribal clashes or similar before the year is out. Sadly.

Loved the placard shown on BBC News this morning:

"To Hell with Political Shenanigans!"

I bet when Bob does his speech we will get crocodile tears. It’s unlikely that he will walk away without planting some more poisonous seeds.

Hopefully Zims can return to the rule of law and the economic situation improves.

I don't know why you are comparing China to Zimbabwe and Cuba. By all accounts the CCP is doing a bang up job managing China, save for its human rights record.

It's also actually democratic in it's own wayy, but I'm sure you guys already know how government is formed and selected in China?

nah matt, obvious long before 20 years if a government isn't working, if the ideas are good they'll generally be implemented by the next government, even if not, it's the to and fro of governments that keeps democracy healthy, one side imposing it's theories and will to the detriment of other sides is unhealthy.

Jeez Bob stop droning on. Just say sorry and bugger off there's a good chap.