[Closed] Youtube - cyclist knocked off bike...

Yeah, but if you look at her road position at the start of the video:

I'm struggling to see how she didn't see him.

If she was looking right, she'd have seen the accident. If she was looking left, she'd have seen him go down. Far as I can tell, anyway. She must've been daydreaming, surely.

when it flips between clip you lose vital seconds in the recording

It says it saves every five minutes; do you get a load of five-minute clips, then?

I think what these videos show is there are idiots on this world. Some drive cars, some ride bikes. Unfortunately idiots in cars do a lot more damage than idiots on bikes.

[i]vital seconds[/i]

Er, can't say I've ever lost "vital seconds"! 😆
Whaddaya want for 15 quid?

Here's my last example loaded to Youtube -

Yes, it cuts the files down into 5 min .avi files. Makes it easier to go through to find the 'good bits'. Any bigger and editing would be a bit of a bind.

(btw, some quality is lost loading to youtube, but they are by no means HD)

I think what these videos show is there are idiots on this world. Some drive cars..

This is quite an impressive linked video too:

Indignant squeaky-voiced weegie ned: [i]"Ye seen me indakaten. Ye seen me ****in indakaten ya stupit c***"[/i]

Yeah, I'm not sure you've entirely grasped exactly how the indicating thing works there pal. Specifically, it doesn't actually allow you to pass directly through other road users 😯

The AirZound was probably more useful than the camera on that one!

F^&*ing amazing. He actually hits him. Tries to push him out of the way because he has his indicator on. I probably would've got a beating there as I would have totally lost it!

I wonder what his response would be if someone driving an HGV did exactly the same thing to him?

Sorry Dez haven't got sound, did you hit that woman in the mini after she pulled out on you?

Tries to push him out of the way because he has his indicator on.

[i]Sorry Dez haven't got sound, did you hit that woman in the mini after she pulled out on you?[/i]

Ha! Sound wouldn't have helped as I've dubbed stupid music over it! (to hide my swearing mainly)
Yes, I did, but only because the dozy mare actually STOPPED right in front of me. I saw her coming out (always happens there), so slowed to time the pass behind her. So she stops. Right across the cycle lane. Duh.

Here's my last example loaded to Youtube

Ta. Not the best for recording l33t skilz on the trail, but ideal for documenting myopic halfwits in Minis, it'd seem. Cool.

Sorry Dez haven't got sound

It's better that way, trust me.

[i]It's better that way, trust me.[/i]

😆 (see above)

The AirZound was probably more useful than the camera on that one!

Wow, yeah. Saved him getting mashed. Gotta get me one of those. (-:

Some reactionary modwannabe will probably report me for sharing my own personal experiences but here goes..

I've driven tens of thousands of miles, seen good and bad male and female drivers but there is definitely a trend I have noticed. When a car approaches the road I am on from a side road and the person is looking left it is more often than not a woman. IME and all that.

I have male friends who are less coordinated and aware when driving than female friends but this does seem to be a trend.

[i]did you hit that woman in the mini after she pulled out on you?[/i]

Hang on, just read this again... No, I'd never hit a woman. Even if she is a myopic halfwit!

When a car approaches the road I am on from a side road and the person is looking left it is more often than not a woman. IME and all that.

I'm not sure looking left is exactly a fault. Surely folk should check BOTH ways at junctions?

Yes traffic will be coming from the right, but anything could be happening to your left: someone doing an odd manoeuvre or pulling out a driveway/shop next to the junction, a pedestrian crossing from the left, a cyclist lying in the road after being hit...

This is quite an impressive linked video too:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWENoBDxuS4

Indignant squeaky-voiced weegie ned: "Ye seen me indakaten. Ye seen me ****in indakaten ya stupit c***"

Yeah, I'm not sure you've entirely grasped exactly how the indicating thing works there pal. Specifically, it doesn't actually allow you to pass directly through other road users

The AirZound was probably more useful than the camera on that one!

This guy seems to be a bit overzealous with what he considers dangerous. For every genuine incident he posts about 10 others where he simply doesn't like what the driver's done i.e. a guy doing a u-turn at a quiet junction. I cycle a lot of the roads in his videos and never have anywhere near the number of problems he thinks he has.

Hang on, just read this again... No, I'd never hit a woman. Even if she is a myopic halfwit!

😆

Could see you slowing down but wasn't sure if your bike and her motorcar had made contact (better?). She didn't look very apologetic...

This guy seems to be a bit overzealous with what he considers dangerous. For every genuine incident he posts about 10 others where he simply doesn't like what the driver's done i.e. a guy doing a u-turn at a quiet junction. I cycle a lot of the roads in his videos and never have anywhere near the number of problems he thinks he has.

I think that's the same with a lot of the guys who regularly post that sort of vid. I do like this one though (bad words NSFW IIRC)

"I've just been closed out once by this massive metal machine of death, I know I'll try again."

Crazy

Lifer - on that vid the second filtering looked fine assuming as it appeared stationary traffic ahead of the truck. The first was stupid tho.

Anyone riding a recumbent in traffic is daft IMO - you lose a lot of your own visibility and its much harder for cars to see you

Wunun...

Curse you JandemTeremy!!!

😡

Yes traffic will be coming from the right, but anything could be happening to your left: someone doing an odd manoeuvre or pulling out a driveway/shop next to the junction, a pedestrian crossing from the left, a cyclist lying in the road after being hit

So your first instinct is to look left? Don't know about anyone else but I roll up to a junction looking right when I know this lane is clear I'll then look left. I'm talking about people who look to get fliers from give way junctions, not stop junctions.

I've ridden motorbikes for a good 10 years and I see a lot of people caning it up to a give way all the while looking left. This used to scare the bejeesus out of me.

A couple of years back it was a farmer looking left while crossing my carriageway that nearly did for me.

I could start a thread about farmers and illegal vehicles/shit strewn roads blah blah

lifer, that proves my point! there are idiots on bikes as wel!

TandemJeremy - Member
Lifer - on that vid the second filtering looked fine assuming as it appeared stationary traffic ahead of the truck. The first was stupid tho.

Anyone riding a recumbent in traffic is daft IMO - you lose a lot of your own visibility and its much harder for cars to see you

True but didn't look like much room.

If you read his comments he says he hasn't had an incident with not being seen. I reckon it's because it's so unsual it stands out a mile

This guy seems to be a bit overzealous with what he considers dangerous. For every genuine incident he posts about 10 others where he simply doesn't like what the driver's done

Agreed, there are quite a few like him (see [url= http://www.youtube.com/user/magnatom ]magnatom[/url] for example). In a way I'm glad they are trying to highlight cyclist safety, but sometimes I don't think they do us any favours.

However that wee ned example seemed quite real. The guy actually pushed directly into him.

She didn't look very apologetic...

Yeah, but she was pretty enough to get away with a smile 😀

So your first instinct is to look left? Don't know about anyone else but I roll up to a junction looking right when I know this lane is clear I'll then look left.

Depends on the junction, but yeah I'll sometimes look left first to make sure I've got somewhere to go before watching to the right for a suitable gap, then finally checking left again as I start to pull off.

Obviously [i]only[/i] looking left is plain stupid, but so is [i]only[/i] looking right which is what your earlier post seemed to advocate.

There are a lot of examples of drivers doing stupid things and causing/nearly causing accidents but there is also a lot of belligerent riding which is almost looking for a reaction.

I think another problem the OP vid highlights is our trust for other road users, the woman assumed because the black car was going that it was safe. My housemate had a accident last week, a woman coming off her drive & turning right - housemate coming from her left. She was flashed by a car coming from her right and just pulled straight out in front of my mate, assumed it was safe because the person coming the other way let her out.

[i]he says he hasn't had an incident with not being seen.[/i]

He either hasn't been doing it much, or he's a blimmin liar! I've had incidents where I haven't been seen in my [b]car[/b]!!

She didn't look very apologetic...
Yeah, but she was pretty enough to get away with a smile

If you look closely she is actually saying "Sorry". Yep, she stopped right in front of me to say sorry. She got called a "dozy tart" in return iirc.

You're so [s]money supermarket[/s] STW Graham.

Just don't still be rolling up to junctions looking left when there's traffic approaching from your right and we'll all be happy.

Just to go back to the original vid.

The cyclist didn't appear to take any avoiding action of the first car the one that turned right into him.

appears to have well more than a second to shout/ hit the brakes/ swerve.

While the drivers clearly are 100% at fault both morally and legally I would be well cross with myself if I got hit there as there was time and room to take some avoiding action / alert the car driver.

I have shouted at car drivers about to make that move and they have stopped before hitting me.

[i]The cyclist didn't appear to take any avoiding action of the first car the one that turned right into him.[/i]

Holy shit, I hope that's a joke.
If not, that's gonna be a TJ classic.

junction outside our house regular minor shunts - cardrivers look right only and pull out turning left to join main rd - bus at bus stop, couple of cars stopped behind it - so bang

Does Edinburgh have a speakers corner?

So your first instinct is to look left? Don't know about anyone else but I roll up to a junction looking right when I know this lane is clear I'll then look left. I'm talking about people who look to get fliers from give way junctions, not stop junctions.

hear hear

If I'm approaching a GIVE WAY for me, I'll always look at the direction of closest oncoming traffic first (i.e. right -in the uk, unless it's a one way from the left).

As a driver + cyclist that's suffered T-bones in both forms of transit, I know that this will provide confidence to the oncoming drivers/cyclist/motorcyclists so that they won't feel quite so much of a need to slam on the brakes. Once I've actually stopped I'll start looking other directions. Even if I don't need to stop, I make sure I do double take left-right-left-right, just keeping an eye out for dodgy peds/cyclist on the pavement as much as anything that have taken me by surprise before I even think about crossing the white line.

TandemJeremy - Member
Just to go back to the original vid.

The cyclist didn't appear to take any avoiding action of the first car the one that turned right into him

appeared to me to pull to left and brake

Dez

read it in conjunction with

While the drivers clearly are 100% at fault both morally and legally

However from the car starting the dangerous manoeuvre to the impact is well over a second.

In similar circumstances a shout at the car has caused them to stop and the cyclist does not appear to even touch his brakes / shout or swerve

appeared to me to pull to left and brake

Hmmm- maybe you are right after another look

I've been beeped at in my car at t-junctions because I've not pulled out in front of cyclists that have right of way, or because I refuse to overtake a cyclist dangerously. I've said it before, but a lot of drivers don't seem to register cyclists as living human beings with thoughts, feelings and families, but as irritating objects that just get in the way. :s

This is quite an impressive linked video too:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWENoBDxuS4

Indignant squeaky-voiced weegie ned: "Ye seen me indakaten. Ye seen me ****in indakaten ya stupit c***"

Yeah, I'm not sure you've entirely grasped exactly how the indicating thing works there pal. Specifically, it doesn't actually allow you to pass directly through other road users

The AirZound was probably more useful than the camera on that one!

I've absolutely no idea how he manages to stay so calm when faced by such stupidity and obnoxiousness. The guy is clearly going to do it again and again.

I probably would've got a beating there as I would have totally lost it!

Every time I cycle on a busy main road, there's a stupid 'creep past, pull in, stop' or someone will pass when the road is too narrow and cars are coming the other way, forcing them to pull in before I'd like.

I don't know how people manage it day-in day-out.

Ah, I see you've already admitted your mistake. Look at the times here.
Not "well over a second" by any stretch.
[IMG] [/IMG]

dez - your second image there I would already be taking avoiding action as he has started the manoeuvre. Even in the first from the speed of the car I would be anticipating it

To me things like this the key thing afterwards is to look at the incident and to try to understand why it happened and what yo can do to avoid it.

Of course one difficulty here is that I would also want to be watching the car turning left from the side road which might split your attention but going thru a junction like that I would have both hands on the brakes and be doing my best to watch both cars closely - looking at the top of the front tyre is a good tip

You're so [s]money supermarket[/s] STW Graham.

I'm trying to be clear - not argumentative. Honest. 😳

Just don't still be rolling up to junctions looking left when there's traffic approaching from your right and we'll all be happy

Hmm.. so what you and Imabigkidnow seem to be saying is that I should roll up to the junction looking right, not because I intend to do anything with that information straight away, but because it is a reassuring body language signal to the drivers on the main road that I have seen them?

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Makes sense I guess.

Doubt it makes much odds on the main Give Way I cross every day though. The main road there is a 60 so they don't exactly get a lot of time to assess body language. Plus the roll up to the junction is uphill and hidden behind a wall.

But yeah, I see your general point.

Look at the time TJ that's not even a second for the whole sequence

Ok - it was just a discussion point.

going thru a junction like that I would have both hands on the brakes and be doing my best to watch both cars closely

Hard to know what to do for best there though TJ. If he had braked harder then he could have been completely T-boned by the black car instead of just a back-wheel clip.

Also, what is the Highway Code reaction time? About a second isn't it?

TJ, I've been in a similar incident - you don't even have time to react never mind go through the whole thing of "oh look, he's not stopping where he should do, he's still turning, I'll look this way to check it's clear for my emergency manoeuvre, now I'll brake, swerve, shout a pithy comment and ride happily on my way".

It's a case of FUUUUU-thump.

🙄

I have to say that my first thought when i watched the video was 'that car is turning, why isn't the cyclist reacting?'

But, I was looking for an incident as that was the point of the video being posted. Perhaps the rider was looking further down the road and hadn't perceived the danger, perhaps he thought the car was positioning itself but not actually going to keep going.

reaction time is around 1/4 second

Stumpy - thats my point. what can be learnt?

Crazylegs - I have also been in that situation and a combination of alerting the driver, swerving and braking prevented a collision.

I would definitely have been mince in that situation. No way I could have avoided it. Videos like this put me right off the idea of commuting to work on my bike.

reaction time is around 1/4 second

Is it? That seems kinda short.

The official stopping distance is 40ft at 20mph with half of that being "thinking time".

I make that about 0.68 seconds.

meh, loads of time. should of bunny-hopped it.

Guys - I am neither blaming the cyclist nor saying it could have been avoided - I am looking for the lessons to learn

Guys - I am neither blaming the cyclist nor saying it could have been avoided - I am looking for the lessons to learn

Only lesson here, is 'pass on the left'. 99% of people expect that.

graham - thats including the time to get your foot from throttle to break - if you have your hands on the brakes already you should be able to get the brakes on in under 1/4 second

Ride in the gutter? He might've got through then 😉

I agree with TJ (ish)

In an ideal world you'd stop and not hit/be hit by the golf, but in the real world if there had been time to react to the golf turning 9there's not really, theres only a second between it crosing it's give way line and the cyclist hitting the floor) you'd probably compleltey infront of it, which in hindsight might not have been a bad thing as youd not end up under the focus!

So yes, TJ is completely right, but in reality, short of cycling at a fraction of the speed (which he shouldn't have to do when it's not his fault) there's nothing the cyclist could do, the whole thing happened within his reaction time.

I am looking for the lessons to learn

Call me contrary if you like, but I can't help thinking that, just possibly, the people who really need to learn lessons from that video are, perhaps, the ones in the cars...

graham - thats including the time to get your foot from throttle to break

Ah I see.

Still as you say the cyclist had two obvious potential hazards to consider, once he could see past the van that turned in front of him. Not unreasonable that he may have concentrated more on the silver car pulling out from the left as they had less visibility of him compared to the black car staring directly at his flashing front lights.

I think he did pretty well to manage any kind of brake or swerve in that situation.

If i prepared to avoid every car that did not obey the highway code it would be a very long journey to word done at about walking speed.
You cant react to that we all see cars do that [ prepare to turn right] - granted I try to make eye contact to make sure they have seen me but at that junction you also cant see behind the van to see whether the car there will pull out so I may not have done. Would have covered the brakes but am i meant to crawl through/past every junction just in case?
Braking late would not have helped the cyclist either IMHO

But yeah, I see your general point

You're not that STW. I take it back.

graham - thats including the time to get your foot from throttle to break - if you have your hands on the brakes already you should be able to get the brakes on in under 1/4 second

Reaction time for an expected simple stimulus is around 0.25s.
You can have a go here - [url] http://www.mathsisfun.com/games/reaction-time.html [/url]

HOWEVER this is for a very simple stimulus that you mind is totally focused on.
So if the problem is were to be made even slightly more complicated - say you had to click when the word red is displayed, the reactions times will increase markedly due to the extra cognitive processing. Add in the amount of visual processing required to detect real-world situations and the figures rise significantly.
For reference accident reconstructions use a figure of 1.5 seconds for reaction response time.

Cycling in India, the chances of anyone at the side of the road pulling out on you, or cutting across you is about 75% 🙄

I ride automatically expecting everyone to be trying to kill me, and for it to be perfectly accepted. If that scenario had cropped up I probably would have combined a bit of a swerve to the left and honking to cut between the van and the golf. However that would have meant the Focus would have T-boned me good and proper 😯

I think that the chances of the cyclist avoiding both vehicles even with reactions of a ninja are pretty slim, just glad he seemed to get away pretty much unscathed.

Cheers, Rich

Pretty easy to be an expert when the hazard is presented to you on video and in a series of freeze-frame images.

interesting ian.

If you are watching for them to move with your hands already on the brake I would have thought the 0.25 second nearer. as all you have to do is see the movement and grab the brake 1.5 seconds is a scarily long time. jeepers

1.5 seconds is a scarily long time. jeepers

This is why there's pile-ups on motorways.

Yeah it does seem like a lot. My guess is that our internal perception of how time passes in these situations is quite often different to reality. I guess that internally we estimate a response time based on when we perceive an incident has started, but exclude the time it takes to recognise the incident.

There's some details here -
[url] http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/reactiontime.html [/url]

One interesting point is that your reaction time also increases if you have a variety of options to choose from. I.e steer or brake.

Pretty sure there was nothing that cyclist could have done differently other than be riding at half the speed (which isn't really the answer either)

Brake or swerve though thats an interesting one. I've spent years mountain biking training my instinct away from braking when the shit hits the fan. As a result my first instinct on a bike is always to try and steer out of trouble. I wonder if it the wrong instinct for the road though

She was flashed by a car coming from her right and just pulled straight out in front of my mate

Hmm.. so what you and Imabigkidnow seem to be saying is that I should roll up to the junction looking right, not because I intend to do anything with that information straight away, but because it is a reassuring body language signal to the drivers on the main road that I have seen them?