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Ive beaten binners to posting his monty python gif !
I think we can all take it as implied 🙂
and the whole project could end up being entirely irrelevant by the next General Election.
Could? 🤣
Hmm… female MP involved in new party sounds exactly like some female MPs when Corbyn become leader of his previous party as regards his entourage being sexist dinosaurs and shutting them out. What’s the common factor…?
our ernie has a unique overton window
Well help me move my overton window by pointing out the obvious and huge irreconcilable political differences between Sir Keir Starmer and Nigel Farage.
What have you got..... ranting about small boats, slashing foreign aid, denying British citizenship to asylum seekers, claiming that immigrants have done "incalculable damage" to the UK, flag-shagging, sycophantic attitude to Donald Trump, law and order/freedom of speech, attacks on welfare provisions, increase in defence spending, ripping up rules to protect the environment and conservation, support for the far-right genocidal Israeli regime???
Nah, there doesn't seem to be a huge political gulf between Sir Keir Starmer and Nigel Farage, in fact Starmer seems to be doing his best to sound more and more like Farage.
But then again as I suggested earlier perhaps not everyone considers Nigel Farage to be "hard-right"?
And to be fair on some issues such as nationalisation of the utilities it might be plausible to say to say that Nigel Farage is slightly to the left of Sir Keir Starmer.
Starmer's Labour Party is a nasty right-wing party with racist undertones....... very much like Reform UK is.
it's all about egos not actually achieving anything.
It has got bugger-all to do with egos but you push that line to maintain your constant attack on the Left.
What it is really about is two very different people with two very different sense of urgency. Corbyn is the procrastinating old man who doesn't like doing things differently to how he has always done them and who doesn't really like confrontations.
Corbyn is the man who when one of his MPs, Margaret Hodge, called him a "****ing racist and anti-Semite" to his face in front of a camera he responded by saying, "I'm sorry you feel like that".
In contrast Zarah Sultana is young, angry, and impatient.
This is Zarah Sultana
https://www.tiktok.com/@zarahsultanamp/video/7548494502747507991
Corbyn needs to spend more time on his allotment
there doesn't seem to be a huge political gulf between Sir Keir Starmer and Nigel Farage
Ahh… back to “they’re all the same”. Well, when Farage has removed workers rights, refocused us back towards fossil fuels, removed access to medical care, rolled over for Putin, and done a runner to the USA with all the money he’s made out of being PM, then the differences will be clearer for you.
In contrast Zarah Sultana is young, angry, and impatient.
And female.
Almost the definition of being able to start an argument in an empty room. If they are threatening each other with the lawyers at this stage, I think we are on the brink of new party mitosis already. At this rate of reproduction, we could have several thousand separate versions by the end of the year.
Almost the definition of being able to start an argument in an empty room.
I think the Oxford English Dictionary has that as the definition of UK left wing politics
Ahh… back to “they’re all the same”.
I don't think Reform are the same but I would say people would be hard pushed to spot the difference between Conservatives and Labour these days so as much as the two old main parties, yes they are very much the same.
I did say at the beginning of this thread that Sultana and Corbyn would never get on. I’d be annoyed about being proven right if it wasn’t for Polanski. Forget this lot.
they are very much the same
Well, perhaps the Tories are just pretending when they argue against workers rights and green initiatives in parliament.
Forget this lot.
This could be good news for The Green Party, having a rival party diminished so soon. But there is the risk that the rise and premature fall of YourParty and its large blip in polling among voters will make non-political people more cynical about the Greens as well though. I hope not. They’ll need to work hard (which Polanski is so far IMHO) to present an alternative policy platform and approach (without looking like another left wing talking shop).
people would be hard pushed to spot the difference between Conservatives and Labour these days
Agreed. But is Reform UK really more right-wing than the Tories? And if so in what way?
Personally I am struggling to see Kemi Badenoch as being any more left-wing than Nigel Farage. In fact I feel that it is fair to say that Badenoch is probably a tad to the right of Farage.
Although obviously not by instinct, Farage is just shrewd enough to understand the appeal of talking about nationalising the utilities among his support base, I can't see Badenoch ever being that pragmatic.
Obviously not all politicians are the same but politically there isn't a huge gulf between Labour, the Tories, and Reform.
Which still leaves plenty of other parties to choose from.
At this rate of reproduction, we could have several thousand separate versions by the end of the year.
Let one hundred flowers bloom.
Polanski is so far IMHO) to present an alternative policy platform and approach (without looking like another left wing talking shop).
He looks like that is exactly what he is doing. Turning them into a lefties talking shop
There is that risk. Especially after this YourParty nonsense. I’m not as dismissive as you about his efforts and approach so far though, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by his actual media performances since becoming leader, against what were low expectations based on his history. Give him a chance.
Let's face it, the only reason anyone is giving this lot a second thought is because of Labour's dismal performance.
I’m not as dismissive as you about his efforts and approach so far though, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by his actual media performances since becoming leader,
it's because he is taking the greens farfrom their core mission
Media work has been good but all lefty talking points not green from what I have seen
it's because he is taking the greens farfrom their core mission
They can't win. They get told they're a single issue party so they respond by talking about other stuff. Then they get told they're abandoning their core purpose.
Go on then, tell me the significant and fundamental differences between Starmer's Labour Party and Reform UK.
Or would you not classify Reform UK as hard right?
Are you insane?
Starmer does not want to:
Sell off the NHS to private health care
Abandon net zero and all green policies.
Ban DEI practices.
Stop the BBC licence fee and sell it off to private media.
Leave the ECHR
Obliterate trans rights
Prohibit schools from any inclusivity teaching.
Force sick and disabled people into work they can't do.
Make all schools have a Union flag in every classroom and make the kids sing the national anthem each morning.
Etc
I'm really disappointed in the current government, but to say there is no difference between Labour and Reform is utterly ridiculous.
Starmer does not want to:
Sell off the NHS to private health care
Abandon net zero and all green policies.
Ban DEI practices.
Stop the BBC licence fee and sell it off to private media.
Leave the ECHR
Obliterate trans rights
Prohibit schools from any inclusivity teaching.
Force sick and disabled people into work they can't do.
Make all schools have a Union flag in every classroom and make the kids sing the national anthem each morning.
have you actually watched or read any news in the last 12 months?
I’d say with the exception of the ECHR and union flag/ national anthem thing the rest of those points are well in hand. And to think I actually voted for him. Makes me sick quite frankly.
Are you insane?
I'm sorry but you might have misread what I wrote. I didn't suggest that there were no differences between Starmer's Labour and Reform UK, there clearly is, of course there is, they are two different political parties. I suggested that there is not a huge and fundamental ideological gap between them.
IMO there is more of a difference between Labour and the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, (and possibly even the LibDems) all of which are fundamentally social democratic parties, than there is between Starmer's Labour and Reform.
Labour under Starmer is not a social democratic party it is a neoliberal thatcherite party.
Sir Keir Starmer is very clearly doing his very best to try and minimise the differences between Labour and Reform, he obviously believes that is the way to win votes, or at least Morgan McSweeney does.
Are you going to suggest that there is also a huge fundamental ideological gap between Labour and the Tories as well? I see little difference between the Tories and Reform.
Having said all that I will give you Net Zero, that does indeed represent a huge and fundamental difference between Labour and Reform. It will be interesting, if somewhat depressing, to see what a Nigel Farage government attempts to do in 4 years time. Once the election is over and the rhetoric dies down.
Btw despite accepting the Net Zero point let's not forget this
Heh - as predicted, in some quarters a whole lotta discussion of Starmer tonight, and remarkable quietness about the thread topic - Your Party.
Fire away.
What are the legal proceedings they’re threatening each other with about then?
Do you think they’re fighting for the rights to continue to use the name, like the former members of Bucks Fizz?
it's about who controls the membership
Does Sultana's claim that YourParty is a sexist boys' club seem plausible? 4 of the other 5 MPs in the Independent Alliance (whose logo contains the colours and design elements of the Palestinian National flag) have made a point of promoting their religous credentials...but they don't seem to have a strong presence in the Your Party factional war. It seems to be very much Corbynites vs Sultanaites, and Corbyn - for his many faults - doesn't have a reputation as a male chauvinist pig, does he?
Does Sultana's claim that YourParty is a sexist boys' club seem plausible?
yes. the left ime are very good at talking equality but rubbish at doing it
it's because he is taking the greens farfrom their core mission
They can't win. They get told they're a single issue party so they respond by talking about other stuff. Then they get told they're abandoning their core purpose.
I'm a bit of a green fundamentalist. The green movement is split between light and dark green. Light green think you can mitigate the coming environmental collapse without lifestyle change. Dark green understand this is impossible
it's about who controls the membership
Wont that be whoever is head of 6th form?
It has got bugger-all to do with egos but you push that line to maintain your constant attack on the Left.
if it wasn't about her ego she would be working within one of the other parties of the left rather than creating another splinter group
It's not about attacking the idea of the left. it's about understanding the numpties that are in this grouping
I've been a part of the labour movement via trade unions and anti fascist activism for almost 50 years.
I'm a bit of a green fundamentalist. The green movement is split between light and dark green. Light green think you can mitigate the coming environmental collapse without lifestyle change. Dark green understand this is impossible
Polanski is trying to appeal to the sort of people whose carbon emissions are already low, and he understands that the fundamental changes needed have to be driven by governments, not individuals. We'll see what happens but it's a promising start.
As predicted they’ve gone full People’s Front of Judea. I despair at the left in the UK. Get your shit together or we’re ****ed. Don’t make me vote for the Luddites in the Green Party.
Polanski is trying to appeal to the sort of people whose carbon emissions are already low,
I think the opposite way round. He certainly has little appeal to me.
Has the committee of two managed to deliberate a party name yet?
May I suggest 'fruit and nut'?
Splitters?
yes. the left ime are very good at talking equality but rubbish at doing it
Even days after the launch, beardy old men around Corbyn were describing Sultana as "Ambitious" which is code for 'pushy young woman, who insists on interrupting when the men are talking' She's on her way out, I wonder if she's realised yet?
I'm a bit of a green fundamentalist. The green movement is split between light and dark green. Light green think you can mitigate the coming environmental collapse without lifestyle change. Dark green understand this is impossible
I'd agree with that. However, where we perhaps disagree is that Polanski is dark green whereas the previous leadership were light Green.
The first step to cutting consumption is making sure everyone is taken care of. imo the only way to do that is to put your left credentials front and centre. It could be there is no Part 2 to Polanski's plan but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Much of the complaints about Polanski seem to be that he isn't focusing on offering bungs to middle class people to make it cheaper to ease their consciouses' over their over-consumption. I believe this was the main focus of the previous Green leadership. You can keep consuming but we're going to make sure you get 'incentives' to over-consume in a 'Green' way.
Has the committee of two managed to deliberate a party name yet?
It is more than two, everyone who signed up could suggest a name. I am all for democracy but sometimes things can be over democratic and just require a leader to do stuff. That is clearly where Corbyn fails as I agree with his principles but he is no leader in any way whatsoever. He doesn't lead and is slow to respond to everything which presumably is why Sultana got frustrated, I would too as I just want to get on with things.
I was hoping something would come of it but not very likely now is it. I can remain with Green Party and I think Polanski is great for the job - listens well, puts his opinion well, deal with questions well etc,.
If it ends up being Party McPartyface I'm definitely voting for them.
It seems to be very much Corbynites vs Sultanaites, and Corbyn - for his many faults - doesn't have a reputation as a male chauvinist pig, does he?
That’s a joke, right? Of course he does. He’s belittling towards female politicians, including those he likes/supports. In addition female Labour MPs complained about his “door being shut” to them but not their male colleagues when he was leader. But they can be dismissed as “right wingers” and ignored. And I’m not sure if you think womanising is a chauvinist trait, or if you think that’s old fashioned, but his past reputation “with the women” must make some people feel a bit awkward.
Turning them into a lefties talking shop
As opposed to a being a bunch of middle class eco-hippies who are obsessed with stuff that 90% of the population don't give a shit about. Environmental issues are currently so far down the list of most voters priorities the green party will never succeed unless they address economic and social justice issues. Polanski is doing exactly that and it looks like people are actually listening to him.
I'm a bit of a green fundamentalist.
No shit. Good luck with your hair shirt approach to elections though. It barely needs to be said but people are never going to vote for a lower quality of life. And they're definitely not going to vote for a bunch of middle class virtue signallers who lecture everyone else about their poor life choices.
but his past reputation “with the women” must make some people feel a bit awkward.
Rayner was a renowned shagger but it didn't seem to do her any harm. Did she make people feel awkward too?
No shit. Good luck with your hair shirt approach to elections though. It barely needs to be said but people are never going to vote for a lower quality of life. And they're definitely not going to vote for a bunch of middle class virtue signallers who lecture everyone else about their poor life choices.
Once again you show your ignorance and disdain for the poor.
True green policy improves the lives of the poorest.
Enlighten us ignorant ones then, what are those true green policies that improve the lives of the poorest.
Does Sultana's claim that YourParty is a sexist boys' club seem plausible? 4 of the other 5 MPs in the Independent Alliance (whose logo contains the colours and design elements of the Palestinian National flag) have made a point of promoting their religous credentials...but they don't seem to have a strong presence in the Your Party factional war. It seems to be very much Corbynites vs Sultanaites, and Corbyn - for his many faults - doesn't have a reputation as a male chauvinist pig, does he?
Islamic fundamentalists don't believe women should have equal voting rights? Im shocked!
Islamic fundamentalists
LOL! The Independent Alliance MPs currently sitting in the House of Commons are "Islamic fundamentalists" ! 😂
Edit : I suspect that Donald Trump would agree with that analysis, after all he seems to think that the London Mayor is some sort of islamic fundamentalist and that the UK's capital is practically under Sharia law.
but his past reputation “with the women” must make some people feel a bit awkward.
Rayner was a renowned shagger but it didn't seem to do her any harm. Did she make people feel awkward too?
Are you the guy that was trying to get the "Starmer's Ukrainian rent boys" rumour going a few days ago? And that believes Starmer is a (literal) football hooligan? Or is that the other guy?
LOL! The Independent Alliance MPs currently sitting in the House of Commons are "Islamic fundamentalists" !
Centrists have very happily accepted the hierarchy of racism policy of SKS & McSweeney to attack the left.
I’m now just really disturbed at the thought that Magic Grandad used to be a prolific shagger
I think the opposite way round. He certainly has little appeal to me.
I was thinking of the people who can't afford long haul flights.
I was thinking of the people who can't afford long haul flights
That thought did cross my mind too.
I did the numbers a bit ago, and it turns out that no amount of living in a small house and recycling and eschewing cars will cancel out a long haul flight. Which was annoying (as someone who almost never drives and recycles and lives in a small house)
How about a few shorter flights to Magaluf?
I was thinking of the people who can't afford long haul flights
That thought did cross my mind too.
I did the numbers a bit ago, and it turns out that no amount of living in a small house and recycling and eschewing cars will cancel out a long haul flight. Which was annoying (as someone who almost never drives and recycles and lives in a small house)
Iirc my flights to the antipodes are worth 2 to 4 years worth of average car useage in terms of co2 emissions.
we all have a carbon footprint . mine is not as low as it was bit still lower than the majority by a long way. No car. No children. No pets. Very few new consumer goods
You do keep having those bonfires with old car tyres though
Enlighten us ignorant ones then, what are those true green policies that improve the lives of the poorest.
Transport as an example. The poorest have least access to cars but are more effected you car pollution. A green transport and planning policy will disproportionately benefit them. You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs. The poorest get the benefit of more accessible services and easier and cheaper local travel
True green policy improves the lives of the poorest.
Do share what these are? EVs they can’t afford. Solar panels that benefit the landlord if they are going to fit them? What are the benefits for the poorest
crossed post.seeabove
electric private cars are not green. buses and trains are. the poorest have no access to ice cats even
Transport as an example. The poorest have least access to cars but are more effected you car pollution. A green transport and planning policy will disproportionately benefit them.
How will a green transport policy help compared to a non green transport policy. I suspect the poorest are more interested in paying the bills
I suspect poor peopke would rather be able to afford a car than use public transport. Green policies make cars more expensive.
Yes, it wasn't particularly a dig at you, more to say that when someone mentioned Polanski "appealing to people whose emissions are already low" it's more likely to be the precariat who live 6 to a flat in a tower block on the edge of town, have never been on a plane and in some cases never even been to the city centre.
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
I hate to burst your bubble TJ but working class people drive too you know. In fact they're absolutely dependent on cars to get to work, do the shopping, get the kids to school etc. If your solution to climate change is to tell working people that they're not allowed to drive good luck with that.
There was a scheme where I used to live to hire electric scooters. It worked out cheaper for 1 person to catch a taxi never mind 4.
I was led to believe that you got an old Vauxhall Corsa as well as a big telly and twenty lambert and butler when you get a council house?
You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs.
I hate to burst your bubble TJ but working class people drive too you know. In fact they're absolutely dependent on cars to get to work, do the shopping, get the kids to school etc. If your solution to climate change is to tell working people that they're not allowed to drive good luck with that.
again with the ignorance
the poorest have very limited access to cars. Go read up on it or spend some time in poor communities
Centrists have very happily accepted the hierarchy of racism policy of SKS & McSweeney to attack the left.
I think it's silly to suggest that Adam, Hussein, Mohamed and Khan are Islamic fundamentalists. Their Muslim identity is obviously part of their platform and appeal, but no more than the numerous Christian Democratic parties across Europe.
What's equally dubious is characterising them as being of the left. Are they really Lefties rather than, say, Palestine protest vote candidates or soft right social conservatives...like most Christian Democrata?
- Adam is really a Gaza single issue candidate and MP with no political profile before 2024
- Hussain and Mohaned are basically the same, with added anti-trans, anti-abortion and pro-cousin marriage votes
- Khan was a 20 year candidate and councillor for the Liberal Democrats. He only fell out with them after he was told and refused to do anti-Semitism training in relation to his TikTok (!) videos about Gaza
How are these guys lefties? Why did anyone ever think they'd share a broad-based political platform with Sultana and Corbyn?
I've got loads of work to do before I sign off today, so obviously I thought I'd take a quick break to look up the stats on car use.
The poorest quintile drive the fewest miles, by some margin, and they also do the fewest miles as passengers in cars. The richest quintile drive the most. (but it's the 2nd richest quintile that do the most miles as passengers in cars)
Interestingly, although the lowest quintile also drive the fewest journeys, it's not actually the richest quintile that do the most - it's the 2nd richest. Which perhaps suggests that the 2nd richest do more commuting, while the richest quintile are more likely to work from home and just use the car for longer trips to places like Morzine and BPW and what have you. (incidentally, as at 2023, a salary of £48,000 would put you in the richest quintile)
Transport as an example. The poorest have least access to cars but are more effected you car pollution. A green transport and planning policy will disproportionately benefit them. You comfy middle class folk will bemoan your increased driving costs. The poorest get the benefit of more accessible services and easier and cheaper local travel
Today's government could do that but it would be an economic choice to help people who are reliant on public transport. I would make public transport free and increase availability (i.e, where I live there are two buses a day and first one is at 11:00). This would not only help those totally reliant on it but may also get a few people out of their cars (I actually used to get bus to work until the 07:15 was cancelled, although I was usually the only person on it)
I however see this as an equality thing rather than a green thing as I wouldn't be doing it for environmental impact although it could be sold as that if required.
What else have you got?
What's equally dubious is characterising them as being of the left. Are they really Lefties rather than, say, Palestine protest vote candidates or soft right social conservatives...like most Christian Democrata?
Of course they arent left wing, its an alliance of convenience rather than a political one - exactly why its destined to go wrong