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Not sure if this has been mentioned before (I did a search with no luck).
How about you put something up for sale, someone agrees to buy, instead of paypal gift with no come back the seller lists it in eBay for the price agreed as a buy it now and the buyer can then buy, see the feedback, leave feedback if ripped off and have the protection from eBay. Fees are a pain but better than loosing hundreds.
Bad idea or does it have legs?
Poor idea.
How about this?
Use common sense.
The classifieds are free eBay is not.
Classified users should make a donation imo tho.
Fair enough, just an idea, I know it costs but at least you could be sure if you were forking out £1k or so. I'll get me coat
If you're putting on eBay and paying the fees you might as well not bother with here,
ebays a bigger marketplace anyway,
Perhaps now that STW classified has grown from the community that it once was, into the beast that it now is, it should think about having a registation scheme and charging sellers.
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How about this?
Use common sense.
Wouldn't that be a bit discriminating? 😉
H&S experts to the forum please.
seba560 - Member
Perhaps now that STW classified has grown from the community that it once was, into the beast that it now is, it should think about having a [b][u]registation scheme[/u][/b] and charging sellers.
Simple - registered Premier users only - that way there is CC information, Paypal information, traceability, etc or do Singletrack think it's not their responsibility for anything even though they allow the sale of goods - they think it's their responsibility for what is said/posted on the main forum so surely they must accept that the Sales section carries similar.
Done this before on pinkbike, worked well but the seller was a bit hacked off.
Have you looked at how much the fees actually are?
If you buy from an ad posted in your local free paper the paper is not liable if your sale goes bad.
A free classified system relies on the two parties being happy with the deal. The classifieds system is simply a mechanism for introducing seller to buyer. There's simply no way that your local paper, the free ads board at Tesco, or this site, can take responsibility for a deal gone wrong, especially where a buyer has sent a total stranger on the internet cash using a system that offers absolutely no protection.
Don't use Paypal Gift. It's really that simple. If a seller insists on a payment method with no protection then just walk away.
If you use Paypal Gift to pay someone you don't know then you take your chances.
As with most scams, the scammers play upon people's greed. If you buy something using Paypal, don't put it as a gift. If you choose to act dishonestly and pay using a gift when it isn't, don't whinge when you get caught out. Pretty simple really...
Why not just list items for a sensible price and not using PP gift?
There's simply no way that your local paper, the free ads board at Tesco, or this site, can take responsibility for a deal gone wrong
I don't think anyone expects the Forum to take responsibility for deals gone wrong.
But it would be nice to think that The forum might do something that would stop it from happening in the first place.
Such as only registered members being allowed to sell in the classifieds.
And provide information to anyone who gets scammed by someone registered who's details are held by the forum.
But it would be nice to think that The forum might do something that would stop it from happening in the first place.
Why shouldn't the buyers exhibit a bit more caution? Why should they be allowed to not take responsibility for their actions?
We won't provide details of users because that would contravene our data protection obligations. We will and do provide those details to the police and courts. Only registered users can place ads or do you mean Premier users? But really, what is the problem with being sensible in the first place? It's not difficult.
What Mark hasn't mentioned is we've discussed various ideas for the classifieds and really the way it is Ok but people should be use caution. That said we all make mistakes we either live with them or we sort it ourselves.
This place is still very much a community and we intend to keep it that way.
What kind of idiot gives a stranger on the internet money without any mechanism to get it back if it turns out that the stranger is a fraudster?
nealglover - Member
There's simply no way that your local paper, the free ads board at Tesco, or this site, can take responsibility for a deal gone wrong
I don't think anyone expects the Forum to take responsibility for deals gone wrong.But it would be nice to think that The forum might do something that would stop it from happening in the first place.
Such as only registered members being allowed to sell in the classifieds.
And provide information to anyone who gets scammed by someone registered who's details are held by the forum.
Don't hide behind the "Data Protection" card - every other forum I am on has classifieds - every other forum police those classifieds.
Every other forum helps if in the VERY RARE a scam/bad deal takes place by tracing, detailing, contacting, etc.
They are a very rare occurence because EVERY MEMBER knows that their details are held and WILL BE PASSED ON if necessary to the relevant authorities.
Also - every memeber MUST post a minimum number of times before being allowed to post in the classifieds, they must be a paying member of the "community" - that alone keeps 99.9% of all scammers away -this place is a gold mine for anyone who wants to "misbehave" - it's not exactly hard for STW to implement a "No PP Gift" policy, deleting any adds and warning/banning members who post as such.
Happy enough to ban at the merest sign of cleavage but not when someone rips people off....
Happy enough to ban at the merest sign of cleavage but not when someone rips people off....
Indeed.
The Classifieds seem to now be a haven of fraud (Yes, I know there's a lot of good trading, but the sheer number of "Classifieds only 'members'" is shocking)
The point re joining the "community" is very fitting, I think. I'd buy from someone I recognised as a regular user, as there's a level of understanding and mutual involvement there.
Also - Why not have something like this - [url= http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=15 ]Had a good deal and want to post feedback? Want to check up on other users before buying or selling? This is the forum for you...[/url]
Retrobike isn't really a commercial concern like STW, and yet if they can do it......
I bought something on another site and used pp(not gift) but the seller had to pay the charges. Now I agreed I'd cover the charges,but how do you know what they are,is it a simple % of the amount you send?
I had to ask him how much he'd been charged and then send some more money for him,I'd just like to be able to work it out myself in future and send it in one go.
So,how do they work it out?
Use common sense.
Jesus wept, you do know what forum this is don't you?
I bought something on another site and used pp(not gift) but the seller had to pay the charges. Now I agreed I'd cover the charges,but how do you know what they are,is it a simple % of the amount you send?
I had to ask him how much he'd been charged and then send some more money for him,I'd just like to be able to work it out myself in future and send it in one go.
So,how do they work it out?
http://www.clothnappytree.com/ppcalculator/
There's others but this has been right for me
I had to ask him how much he'd been charged and then send some more money for him,I'd just like to be able to work it out myself in future and send it in one go.
So,how do they work it out?
[url= https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside&countries= ]paypal fees[/url]
A simpler solution is that sellers take into account that they will take a small hit on the money they get and price accordingly. When I next sell in a week or two I'll expect to loose a little (i.e. I'll pay the fees) and would walk away from future purchases if the seller expected me to pay them for him. Just brings a little parity with an ebay transaction.
As I have mentioned on here before I bought something off Pinkbike and the vendor sent me a goods invoice via Paypal and I then paid.He covered the fees and presumably built that into the price.It's only a few % anyway.
Can't see it being that difficult , making that a clearly written classifieds rule on here if distance buying/selling or of course cash on delivery.If sellers demand an alternative then report them and the ad. gets pulled.If you don't do Paypal or COD then sell elsewhere.
As for the "common sense" comment the reason we have legislation around goods and services is to protect consumers.
there's too many things could go wrong, stw have no idea what users have agreed what has/hasn't been paid for or handed over, why would they get embroiled in a he said she said argument and start handing out personal details? Soooooo much potential trouble for them. Premier only classifieds might be an idea but you can already choose to only buy off prem users. U want security and safety go to full professional classified sites and pay the fees. U want a massive range of cheap stuff with the odd scammer or pro seller most of whom seem to be easily identified* as being dodgy with a quick look at their history stay hereAnd provide information to anyone who gets scammed by someone registered who's details are held by the forum.
*from what I've seen on I've been scammed threads
Why shouldn't the buyers exhibit a bit more caution?
they should, where did i say different ?
Why should they be allowed to not take responsibility for their actions?
Again, where did I say different.
You seem to be giving me opinions that I didn't express so that you can argue against them ?
What kind of idiot gives a stranger on the internet money without any mechanism to get it back if it turns out that the stranger is a fraudster?
Send me £100, PP Gift only, and I will tell you.
Mark, yes I did mean Premier members.
If everyone who sold on the forum was required to be a premier member, then they would have to pay to become one.
This would mean that their details were logged and stored and could be used if they turned out to be a scammer.
This would put off most scammers straight away. And it would be so simple to do.
As a bonus it might actually generate revenue too.
Rather than bad feeling.
Jamie - Member
What kind of idiot gives a stranger on the internet money without any mechanism to get it back if it turns out that the stranger is a fraudster?
Send me £100, PP Gift only, and I will tell you.
Oh, I simply must know. What is your paypal email address?
Jamie - no. There - that wasnt difficult now was it folks. 😀
You should try buying an air rifle, or a new motor home, ive been trying to buy both these items lately and the amount of adverts I've had to report has amazed me!
Even better in the air rifle situation is that PayPal won't even provide support if you go through their normal process as they don't support sales of air rifles...
It is very much caveat emptor!
Steady tiger! I could give you the same info as jamie for about £95, PP Gift, obviously.
I tell you what, stick £500 and I could even give you £450 back when my inheritence come through from my home country.
As a seller I never offer PPG and as a buyer I hate it when people advertise PPG only, at the end of the day as a seller your resposible for the transfer of funds and you SHOULD not expect a buyer to cover your fee's on PP! Half the time I don't bother with buying of those type of sellers for the sheer fact that they won't sacrifice a few sheckles on a their sale for a buyer to protect themselves! If your selling, you cover the fee's, that's the way it work's and how I will always work, must work too as my item's always sell.
Jamie - no. There - that wasnt difficult now was it folks.
Dammit!
Steady tiger! I could give you the same info as jamie for about £95, PP Gift, obviously.
IT'S A SCAM!
Oh, I simply must know. What is your paypal email address?
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spider_and_the_Fly_(poem) ]"'Will you walk into my parlour?' said the Spider to the Fly."[/url]
All this premier milarcy didn't seem to help iPad fella, as his seller was premier. Not that I know whats happened about that.
Someone up there said its a haven for fraud. It's also a haven for idiots.
All this premier milarcy didn't seem to help iPad fella, as his seller was premier. Not that I know whats happened about that.
As mark said earlier, they will release the details to the police.
Presumably the guy would need to let the police know where they can go to get the guys details.
Having said that, have you ever seen another Scammer that was a Premier user ?
I haven't.
So I still reckon it would make a big difference.
But buyers still need to realise they need to engage their brains first obviously.
Steady tiger! I could give you the same info as jamie for about £95, PP Gift, obviously.
*Reported for breaching the classifieds rules about price spoilers!
dunno, how easy* is it to anonymously/falsely become a premier member? Not exactly a huge cost is it? and they could probably recoup that in one "sale". Short term I reckon it might make a difference, honest classified business would probably be reduced more than scams long term.So I still reckon it would make a big difference.
*I have no doubt it's possible one way or another just not sure how easy.
I struggle with long sentences.
It's very simple. If you trust them, use 'gift' if you want. If not, just do it as 'payment for goods' but add 4% to the total to cover the fees. All most sellers are saying by asking for 'gift' is that they don't want to pay the fees and they also don't want to add them to their advertised price. Doing it this way they get the money they wanted, you pay the same and you get protection.
(If you can't work the fees out just proceed to the final confirmation screen as gift. It will show you the fees you are paying. Go back and add that to total put through as payment for goods.)
Matt - the thing is the Buyer shouldn't HAVE TO - the seller is looking for the money and is expecting someone else to foot the bill for them receiving that money.
That's like me coming for a rental/service and expecting Andy to pay for it.... (not that that would be a bad thing... 😉 )
As for protection - again they shouldn't have to - the seller is the one who should cover it.
[url= http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=384428 ]Another forum that I used to post on regularly has these rules.[/url]
60 days membership and 25 posts minimum.
It also has an ebay type feedback system.
Plus a sticky of known scammers.
Put a good system in place and (most of) the scammers will go elsewhere.
Put a good system in place
You do remember the new STW which was delayed for so long it became a standing joke? I think they might have finally got around to fixing the glitchy bump issue which existed ever since the rebuild after the big hack (and they were told about within days of it appearing). Anyway, don't you know that the STW forums are so much bigger than anything else comparable which makes it so much harder for them to change or fix anything?
I shan't be holding my breath for them putting a system in place of any sort (let alone a good one) for anything which doesn't directly affect the STW bottom line.
You do remember the new STW which was delayed for so long it became a standing joke? I think they might have finally got around to fixing the glitchy bump issue which existed ever since the rebuild after the big hack (and they were told about within days of it appearing). Anyway, don't you know that the STW forums are so much bigger than anything else comparable which makes it so much harder for them to change or fix anything?I shan't be holding my breath for them putting a system in place of any sort (let alone a good one) for anything which doesn't directly affect the STW bottom line.
You could suggest something clever and constructive.
[b] [i] [u] DO NOT USE PAYPAL GIFT!!! [/u] [/i] [/b]
And provide information to anyone who gets scammed by someone registered who's details are held by the forum.
I don't like that. What about genuine sellers and buyers who are justtaking the proverbial? I'm sure we've all come accross it, there was one more scratch than the description said, jump straight to witch hunt. Without seeing the items the powers that be have no idea who is right and who's wrong.
.
Simple answer, and I do it now. When you buy or sell something, leave a post on the ad saying if you were happy or not, more detail if you want. When you want to buy something check the seller's posting history for other ads and see how they went. Informal feedback for the regulars, sorted.
.
And what's all the fuss about pp gift? I use it, buying and selling. Yes, there is a risk but then I won't deal with anyone who seems iffy anyway, have a proper search of their history and satisfy yourself as to their reliabilty before agreeing to anything, it's not rocket science. I suspect too many just see an ad and answer it without even looking at the seller.
But why should the seller take a hit on the price to give protection to the buyer?
The seller wants x pounds for the item, so that is what he should get.
If the buyer wants the insurance of buying through PayPal then he has to pay for it, it is of no benefit to the seller.
TurnerGuy - Member
But why should the seller take a hit on the price to give protection to the buyer?
The seller wants x pounds for the item, so that is what he should get.
If the buyer wants the insurance of buying through PayPal then he has to pay for it, it is of no benefit to the seller.
So yet another greedy seller expecting to get their money handed to them for nothing...
Tell you what I will sell something and get you to pick the cash up, post it down to me special delivery so I definitely get it - but don't worry I'm not prepared to cover your costs though of doing that though......
Far too many on here that are clearly only interested in themselves and their greed.... So much for the supposed "community"....
So what happened with angry iPad buyer? Did he get the iPad in the end?
DONT use PP gift. Even regular STWers misdescribe condition
I sold some parts to somebody through a wanted ad on here and they very kindly paid via paypal gift. This was an unexpected bonus and a bit of a compliment. But then I guess he's done his homework and knows I'm an honourable kind of a dude.
Of course I still haven't sent his stuff*
*Normal packing and weekend postal faffage rules apply.
Other forums just have a sticky at the top of the sales forum of "Trustworthy/Untrustworthy Sellers" - seems to work well, why can't we just do that?
Put whatever rules you want in it doesn't stop people being stupid. Paypal protection doesn't prevent fraud as it just flips it onto dishonest buyers then who state the goods were damaged, keep the item and get refunded too. We've had an increase in the amount of people complaining about that too.
In the past, I bought and sold using paypal gift but this was before the great forum change in 2008(?).
Seemed a lot friendlier on here then, and the chances of being scammed appeared to be a lot less.
Also prices are now often laughably high, whereas there seemed to be real bargains on here and even people giving away items to a good home - I know I've even done this!
Now I'm inclined to look at eBay - generally cheaper and added protection.