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Nick Clegg strikes again!
Could she have picked a more controversial subject?
It's not the truth, it's her opinion...
Besides, when could or did politicians ever speak the truth? Not for a very long time IMO.
[i]It's not the truth, it's her opinion...[/i]
This. She's allowed to say what she likes but if she wants to be a member of the club called 'LibDems' she has to abide by the rules.
(I do tend to agree with her though - particularly the bit about US withdrawal of financial support)
Nope, it's the truth.
Nothing is going to be wherever it is, forever...
Israel is acting against international law, the Geneva Conventions, and human rights.
that's not her opinion clubber, that's a fact
Possibly binners (can't claim to be an expert in that area) but this isn't:
A Liberal Democrat peer has resigned from the party after saying Israel [b]"is not going to be there forever".[/b]Baroness Tonge also told a university audience that the country would [b]"reap what it's sown"[/b] in the Middle East - drawing criticism from party leader Nick Clegg and Labour's Ed Miliband.
(yes, I know factually, nothing will be there forever but that clearly isn't what she was implying)
Today's BH-Suck-Pool is brought to you by McVities Chocolate Hob-nobs.
Fair play to her for sticking to her guns i say.
I'd say, if Iran gets its way, then ultimately.....
[img] 
[/img]
She may have a point
But likewise you can say that about most countries and someone who hates them. I bet even the Swiss have someone who'd like to nuke them; maybe the belgians over the whole chocolate thing?
Does she actually say that Israel won't be there forever, or that American funding of Israel won't be there forever? If you read the actual quote in the story rather than the paraphrasing.
And binners, all that stuff about Iran supposedly saying they want to 'wipe Israel off the map' is cobblers. They're not big fans obviously but why would they be?
Still opinion though isn't it?
Grum. Alright, [i]the actual[/i] 'wipe Israel off the map' quote was taken out of context
But at the end of the day, Iran is a nation run by a bunch of fundamentalist nut jobs, and is relentless in its quest to develop nuclear weapons. Actually, exactly the same could be said of Israel too, only they've already got nukes
Where she went wrong was addressing people at the University of Middlesex. Clearly a made up institution.
The University of Middlesex won't be there forever. Not with the LibDems supporting the fees hike....
Iran is a nation run by a bunch of fundamentalist nut jobs, and is relentless in its quest to develop nuclear weapons
You're just stirring now 🙂
Mind you, I'd argue, irrespective of your views of Iranian leadership, the sensible thing to do is for them to develop nuclear weapons. The West has clearly demonstrated that having them will ensure that while you'll be threatened and embargoed you won't get invaded - eg N. Korea.
Mmmm. Hobnobs.
[i]She was sacked as a health spokeswoman in 2010 after she claimed Israeli troops sent to Haiti after the earthquake there were trafficking organs.[/i]
She certainly has anti-Israeli form...
I was thinking Fox's Viennese
I agree with you completely clubber. History has shown that if you're in the nuclear club you get left well alone. If I was I'm-a-dinner-jacket, I'd be hell bent on getting hold of them too
The most likely scenario is that the LibDems won't be there for ever.
What sensible person would want to be an MP if your opinions are formed for you by party wonks?
What a hateful woman. British politics is far better off without her.
What a hateful woman. British politics is far better off without her.
Why does not being a fan of one of the worst pariah states make her a hateful woman?
What a hateful woman. British politics is far better off without her.
I know. How could anyone possibly take issue with a nation that behaves as impeccably as the Israelis? 🙄
WTF's that ??BH-Suck-Pool
How could anyone possibly take issue with a nation that behaves as impeccably as the Israelis?
Regardless, it's still hateful. There are PLENTY of nations who behave terribly (we don't have a great track record ourselves).
Oh well, she's gone now. No point wasting breath on her is it?
one sugar or two?
Dark chocco Hobnobs! OMG!!
I think (hope) that a big change in Israel will be due to internal politics not external influence.
The only thing that'll change Israels behavior is if the Americans stop constantly indulging its every request.
And that just isn't going to happen
There's plenty of internal strife between the state, the Haredim and moderate Jews and secular Israelis and between the different ultra-orthodox sects.
10% of the population is Hasidic but they make up 61% of 1st grade pupils in Israeli schools. The economic implications of this are massive let alone the social implications.
Are they the ones with the hats and curls? I thought they all spent their days driving Volvos around Prestwich?
But she said it definitely was going to happen!
binners - Member
Are they the ones with the hats and curls?
Yup and in Israel the men prefer full time Torah study to work which mean the state pays massive benefits to these communities (60% of Haredi men are unemployed and the average number of chidren per family is 8).
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/27/israel-ultra-orthodox-jews-haredi-exemption?newsfeed=true ]Recent Guardian piece highlighting other areas of internal tension[/url]
The massive Haredi birth rate sustains the Jewish element of the population. It also means that the proportion of Israel's population who are ultra-orthodox has rocketed to more than 10%, with the vast majority of Haredi males going into yeshiva learning rather than completing their national service. Full-time Torah study used to be the preserve of only the most talented and able-minded scholars, while the rest worked for a living and contributed to the upkeep of the students.However, the fiscal capitulation of successive Israeli governments to the Haredim has meant almost every adult Haredi male can now afford to eschew paid employment in favour of yeshiva study, to the chagrin of secular Israeli society. Their sense of injustice is heightened over the issue of national service, and rightly so, yet their pleas to the Haredim to do their bit fall on deaf ears.
Cheers Lifer. I shall have a read of that.
Every days a school day on here 😀
b r - MemberShe was sacked as a health spokeswoman in 2010 after she claimed Israeli troops sent to Haiti after the earthquake there were trafficking organs.
She certainly has anti-Israeli form...
Doesn't mean it isn't true.
Doesn't mean it is.....
And with no evidence (as is usually required when making accusations like this) she hasn't a leg to stand on. She's a hateful, intolerant, bigot.
I swear I saw her fighting with that asshat down at the allotment yesterday.
In her Forum 13 lecture Scheper-Hughes discussed the two motivations of Israeli traffickers. One was greed, she said. The other was somewhat chilling: “Revenge, restitution—reparation for the Holocaust.”
She was accompanied by the Laurel & Hardy theme tune.
Dark chocco Hobnobs! OMG!!
That's just typical of the criticism we are up against - any proposal is just rejected as an attempt to nobble the peace process with the dark arts. I am disgusted by your innuendo and disgraceful slang.
What's this country coming to when a House of Lords peer can't make an ill-informed, juvenile proclamation on foreign affairs?
She's obviously not fit for frontline politics, but these sort of alehouse statements are par for the course in the Lords - bit harsh to get the boot.
She's a hateful, intolerant, bigot.
well you would recognis one 😉
Opposition to what Israel has done/does does not make you a bigot
Being intolerant of injustices that state dishes out on a daily basis to the palestinian population in terms of illegal land grabs, illegal settlements etc or opposin git killing peole abroad is not hateful its callef justice and the law
Without the US veto there would be an extraordinary amount of UN resolutions against this country --iirc USA has the most vetos of any country and the majority are Israel related
You cannot just defend Israel carte blanche becasue it has the right to exist -- we can reasonably expect it to act reasonably and within International law
Criticising its actions does not make you hateful it make you dislike oppresssion whoever does it
The Peer seemed top be syaing the US funding would not last forever not Israel
It is odd even in the UK you cannot criticise Israel without knee jerk reactions but we can portray Iran as anything we like...mmm interesting
Whatever your views on Israel she has a lot of form, verging on anti-semitism.
Tonge said in 2006: "The pro-Israeli lobby has got its grips on the western world, its financial grips. I think they've probably got a grip on our party."
She means Jews.
I first heard of her when she came out with the old "If I was a Palestinian I might become a suicide bomber too....."
Those numbers on the growth of religious fundamentalism in Israel are scary. I just dont get religion.
Interesting if not particularly related article about Haredi Jews in London
well you would recognis one
It would seem so [i]junkyard[/i] 😉
Edit for mistake
She's welcome to criticise Israel, and given her very very fortuante position up to today, be a representative voice in parliament and UK society doing just that. She can't expect to be taken seriously as a politician, though, dishing out sixth-form zionists-under-the-bed rhetoric. That's the last thing that's needed.
mcboo - Member
I just dont get religion.
That doesn't put you at a disadvantage.
where's the problem ?"If I was a Palestinian I might become a suicide bomber too....."
wouldn't you consider drastic measures if your community was essentially walled in and persecuted by some other group ?
It would seem so junkyard
Damn 1- 0 to you 😈
😀
good retort
Thanks!
"If I was a Palestinian I might become a suicide bomber too....."
What about if she'd said "if i were israeli, I'd probably have joined the army"
That OK too?
She can't expect to be taken seriously as a politician, though, dishing out sixth-form zionists-under-the-bed rhetoric. That's the last thing that's needed.
6th form rhetoric seems to be exactly what's needed to get ahead in politics usually.
scaredypants - Member"If I was a Palestinian I might become a suicide bomber too....."
where's the problem ?
wouldn't you consider drastic measures if your community was essentially walled in and persecuted by some other group ?
Oh bless you make it sound so reasonable, blowing up buses full of folk on their way to work. No, there is nothing that would make me commit such an act.
Oh bless you make it sound so reasonable, blowing up buses full of folk on their way to work. No, there is nothing that would make me commit such an act.
What about if they rounded up your wife and child and put them in a building and then shelled it for 'fun'?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
Nope. Still not doing it.
What about if they stole your dinner money [i]and[/i] gave you a wedgie?
mcboo - MemberNope. Still not doing it.
Fair enough, others may have more backbone though
others may have more backbone though
Yeh, thank heavens for the backbone of suicide bombers 🙄
I'm always reminded of resistance fighters during the WWII occupations when people are morally outraged at the undignified acts perpetrated by so called terrorists..
I think the worlds oppressors get off very lightly in the great scheme of things..
Yeh, thank heavens for the backbone of suicide bombers
I'd imagine its the first thing to go through their mind when they pull the detonator
My point was, anyone who will stand by and let the people who murder there loved ones get away with it without raising a finger in defiance lacks backbone, and ironically the founders of the Israeli state agree with me http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/Kingdavid.htm
Personally, I hate to think of the level of desperation that someone would have to be driven to to blow themselves up and feel very lucky that we live in a society where I will never get to experience this, however the Palestinians don't. Hence the issues, if Israel wants to stop the bombs perhaps if they started treating the Palestinian as human beings then the problems will stop
Ba doom tish.
I fail to see what's worse about suicide bombers deliberately targeting civilians compared to not really giving a **** if civilians get killed, especially given that the numbers stack up the way they do (far more Palestinian civilians killed than Israelis). In fact I would argue its worse for a well trained, funded and equipped army to kill so many innocent people than a ragtag bunch of desperate people.
I'm always reminded of resistance fighters during the WWII occupations when people are outraged at the undignified acts perpetrated by so called terrorists..
The resistance targeted the military. Suicide bombers generally choose softer (civilian) targets. This lacks any kind of courage.
Have a scrap by all means, but don't expect people to feel for your cause when your blowing up school buses. Keep it between "combatants" (that should be true for both sides).
Keep it between "combatants".
Should these rules only apply to the terrorists?
Edited after your edit - fair dos
Have a scrap by all means, but don't expect people to feel for your cause when your blowing up school buses. Keep it between "combatants".
What like this?
[img] 
?w=580[/img]
That's a UN compound sheltering non-combatants being shelled via white phosphorous to I quote 'shake and bake them'
It's nice out isn't it?
Keep it between "combatants"
All very Marquess of Queensbury.. just like war.. how very neat and British.. 😀
I'm certainly not going to defend the actions of the Israelis. What I will say is that whilst I do not in any way agree with the use of WP, I also don't believe that they shell the Palestinians without provocation. If they want a scrap, then they should bloody well have one away from the civilian populace of both sides.
Fair enough, others may have more backbone though
Thats pretty insulting.
Thats pretty insulting.
You admitted that you wouldn't get fired up by all your loved ones being murdered for 'fun', so how else would you describe yourself?
TBH you are coming across as someone who would mumble into their skinny mocha-choca-latte with sprinkles if someone beat up your missus in front of you, so they could post it on youtube.
Funny, cause I spent my youth as a platoon commander in a Scottish Infantry Regiment. Feel free to send me a mail direct, I'll be happy to meet you one on one for a bit of unarmed combat.
^^there's a bit of this going around at the moment it seems^^
Some knobber tried throwing his weight around in the 6N thread yesterday. Maybe because its getting warmer?
Still, tenner on the jock grunt? 😀
Funny, cause I spent my youth as a platoon commander in a Scottish Infantry Regiment. Feel free to send me a mail direct, I'll be happy to meet you one on one for a bit of unarmed combat.
So you are happy to fight someone who insults you? But not do anything about someone who killed you family for entertainment?
You have very strange views on right and wrong
LOL at the fantasy world of mcboo.
I'll be happy to meet you one on one for a bit of unarmed combat.
handbags at 10 paces?
LOL at the fantasy world of mcboo.
Thats what I was thinking from Unarmed military champion to recommending skinny jeans in London in 40 posts.
Skinny jeans are practically uniform in the scots regiments. Wrangler usually.
fair point 😉
At least he didn't claim to be Kaiser Soze