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I know I just asked about laptops last month, but I now know what my budget is, and can actually press 'buy now' once I decide. That budget is £750, although I can probably top up by up to £150 if need be. It's just that, while I know what I need, I don't know what machine matches that need the best, so I am asking some concrete advice.
I have a relatively good, fast desktop PC in my 'home office' on which I do a lot of my 'heavy' work - such as video processing, but now that I have to replace my laptop, I wouldn't mind if it could do the following as quickly and as reliably and as solidly as possible:
1. Word processing. Lots of it.
2. Other MS Office apps, such as PowerPoint and Excel (though less of the latter)
3. Video and sound processing for a YouTube channel and a podcast respectively (this is what I mostly use my desktop for)
4. Internet browsing, social media use, and general entertainment (such as YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Spotify)
I am not a gamer in any way, so no need for that capability. I just like my machines to respond to my demands without any delay, to have a solid feel (like a Macbook), to have a nice trackpad, and to be long-lasting. I tend to keep my laptops for as many years as I can!
So, a few specific questions:
Now, I assume that my MS365 family account will allow me to download all necessary applications to a Mac, and that, using the cloud, I should be able to move seamlessly between my PC and a Mac, but am I right?
Is there a big difference between the M1 chip and the i5 in the MacBook Air? (I'm thinking 2020 refurb here.
What would a PC equivalent to a MacBook be? Should I make the switch to Mac?
In any case, please make suggestions in the PC or in the Mac category; tell me what is good or bad about potential choices; answer my above questions; let me know anything you think I should know. I don't come into money often, so I want to make the best decision, and a laptop to me is what a football is to Messi. 😉
Thank you!
huge difference. Battery life, for one. Plenty of M1 refurbs around now (check previous MacBook threads for suggestions)Is there a big difference between the M1 chip and the i5 in the MacBook Air?
You need to bear in mind with Macs that there will come a point where it can no longer (easily) be updated, so buying a 2-year old Mac also robs you 2 years of (more) useful lifespan, so IMO it’s actually better value overall (because they will last a v long time!) to pay a little more for something newer. (I still have a MBP which is about 15 years old in daily use, but it can’t run the latest software and some websites no longer work on Safari, which is a pain)
Is there a big difference between the M1 chip and the i5 in the MacBook Air?
NIGHT and DAY.
the M1 Macs are noticeably faster than ANY Intel-based MacBook.
1 & 2 - any old PC
3 - the M1 Macs are very good
4 - weirdly, this kind of stuff seems to punish my i5 PC and became a real irritation on my i7 MBP. On my SO's i5 MBP 13" it still works OK. But on M1Pro MBP and M1Max MBP it's no sweat at all. I expect similar great performance on a regular M1.
Avoid the M2 MBP with the Touch Bar. That Touch Bar is an interesting idea that has little utility.The M2 no doubt is great.
I am uncertain, despite a lot of browsing of the Parallels website, whether the M1 MacBooks can run intel Windows in Parallels. Anyone have experience and a definitive evidence-based answer?
not bothered yet myself, didn’t think it was contentious anymore though? (Says right on the Parallels home page you can do it?)whether the M1 MacBooks can run intel Windows in Parallels
My preference these days is to use Crossover, if I can get the app to run via it.
I always found it weird that you'd pay a hefty premium for a Mac over a PC and then go "now, how do I run Windows software on it?" It's like buying a set of Snap-On screwdrivers to knock in nails.
"Should you switch?" would largely depend on (3). What software do you use / want to use for your AV work and which platform(s) are they available for? The rest of your 1-4 requirements could be fulfilled by pretty much anything. As for your 'wanting something nice,' your budget would net a fairly premium laptop. I'd guess that a decent hi-res screen (or an external monitor) should be high on your priorities list.
I always found it weird that you’d pay a hefty premium for a Mac over a PC and then go “now, how do I run Windows software on it?”
MacOS for good work. Windows for meh work. Why have 2 machines?
For home I now don’t even use office - it’s all awful.
My current interest in ‘can I run Intel windows on parallels’ comes from a student’s question related to changing from an intel i7 to an M1. Intel windows seems necessary for some engineering thing or other. I found the parallels site unclear on its information on windows - whether that was ARM windows or intel windows.
Before we get into ‘what about windows on azure’ or whatever I’m told that isn’t what’s wanted.
Edit. But yes, 1-4 can be done on most any modern PC to a good degree. If the question is i5 or M1 Mac then M1 Mac is a lot better.
MacOS for good work. Windows for meh work. Why have 2 machines?
Why indeed, why not have one that does everything? "How do I run Mac software?" asked no Windows PC user ever. (Linux software, maybe...😁)
In seriousness though, what's "good work" in this context?
“How do I run Mac software?” asked no Windows PC user ever.
I did spend some time trying to see if I could run Final Cut Pro on Windows.
Shame really.
that analogy actually works great because Snap-On stuff is so good they’d probably actually do a better job than a B&M bargains hammer (I.e. most shite Windows machines) 😂It’s like buying a set of Snap-On screwdrivers to knock in nails.
I don't think you need to spend that much for that purpose. There are those who claim you simply must have a Mac at twice the cost, but I am not one.
I have a Mac for work. I have just switched from an Intel MacBook Pro 13 inch to an M1 14 inch and the difference is.. slight. It's a little faster generally, but the old one was fast too. The battery life is much better though, probably double.
The main difference between Windows and Mac is that there are only good Macs, but there are both good and bad Windows machines.
(I.e. most shite Windows machines)
So buy a non-shite windows machine.
For home I now don’t even use office – it’s all awful.
😂😂😂
so… not a slight difference then? 😉I have just switched from an Intel MacBook Pro 13 inch to an M1 14 inch and the difference is.. slight. It’s a little faster generally, but the old one was fast too. The battery life is much better though, [b]probably double[/b].
great, pick me up some tartan paint too 😂So buy a non-shite windows machine.
great, pick me up some tartan paint too 😂
You do know that's just silly, right?
If you spend Apple money on a PC you'll get something of equal spec or better. You might not like Windows / Linux / MacOS / whatever and that's absolutely fine of course, but that's purely down to personal preference.
if I wanted to spend less in order to save some of my money for something else, would this be any good?
I'm not seeing anything immediately wrong with it but I'm somewhat out of touch. That's a question best fielded by others.
If I were buying a computer tomorrow with your criteria, I'd likely be looking first at Lenovo then at Dell. Dell's bargain basement offerings are hateful but their higher-end stuff is really good IME. Lenovo will be all that's left after the apocalypse aside from cockroaches and Nokia 3310s.
Lenovo will be all that’s left after the apocalypse aside from cockroaches and Nokia 3310s.
Interesting. Lenovo is the only machine that just died on me. Pop sound. Dead. Ex-computer.
We use Dell and HP at work. The HP Probooks with nice alloy chassis are popular with staff (if heavy) and proving very durable. Mines is one of the newer i5's with 16gb ram and SSD. Our Comms team have the same - they edit shorter videos and do basic design work, plus of course we rely on Teams and Office.
The Dell's seem more plasticy, but are surprisingly durable. They are generally a touch cheaper too, particularly as we have started buying from the Dell outlet, not our IT company. Internals don't seem any different.
What would a PC equivalent to a MacBook be? Should I make the switch to Mac?
You need to look at professional level Windows laptops, Dell XPS stuff, for example. All the major PC makers have similar professional level laptops. To get a good quality Windows machine you will need to spend similar money to a low-end Mac. If you are going to be doing video editing, a decent graphics card will be essential. That won't be cheap.
If you are doing video and audio editing, a Mac would make sense. If you are mostly doing routine office work, a PC makes sense. If you are doing serious Excel work, definitely a PC.
I played around with Parallels years ago. It worked but I found it easier to just run Windows on Bootcamp and do all my work on Windows (because I use some specialized software that is Windows only). I don't know what the situation is with running Windows on the new Apple chips but I would not go that way if I needed to run Windows apps for work. If you want to run Windows apps, they will run better directly on an Intel chip than through any emulator.
If windows get a latitude refurb from
https://www.dellrefurbished.co.uk/. Pick a screen size and spec. The last couple of latitudes I’ve had for work have been great.
I have a shiny Mac now. I’m sure it’s top of the range but it does my nut in because I’m a windows person.
If it was me I’d get a top of the range 7390 for under £400 with the 30% discount code https://www.dellrefurbished.co.uk/laptops?model_f%5B%5D=Latitude%207390
thols2
Free Member
What would a PC equivalent to a MacBook be? Should I make the switch to Mac?You need to look at professional level Windows laptops, Dell XPS stuff, for example.
Very much this.
As per my response to your previous thread, Mac build quality in a Windows PC ain't cheap, but the Dell XPS stuff is superb.
I'm so glad I pushed the boat out a bit and went for the XPS.
I use it a lot in work and the excellent keyboard, screen and bomb proof build have made it a pleasure rather than a chore.
I have a separate keyboard and monitor for home use but that's a luxury rather than a necessity. I can touch type on the XPS keyboard without problems and suffer much less eye strain than I did on my old Acer laptop.
Upgradable too.
Happy I stuck with Windows rather than fully investing in the Apple ecosystem. I haven't experienced any software compatability issues with the newer versions of Windows, it 'Just Works'.
Interesting. Lenovo is the only machine that just died on me. Pop sound. Dead. Ex-computer.
We use Dell and HP at work. The HP Probooks with nice alloy chassis are popular with staff (if heavy) and proving very durable.
I can only speak anecdotally. But I've been through a lot of laptops.
I was a part of internal IT at work for a while, our fleet at the time was T-series Lenovos, from the T400 forwards. The vast majority of failures were the system fan (moving parts), the hard disk (moving parts), closing the lid with a pen on the keyboard, cracking the screen (user error), or throwing it across the car park (well...) Hardware faults beyond that were statistically insignificant. When we had a tech refresh they wanted my T420 back, my response was "not whilst I've still got a hole in my arse" and it's still on my desk today. The manufacture date is 11/2011.
The current work-provided laptop is a Dell Precision. It's hard to fault performance-wise - it is a bit of a monster to be fair - and the design is light years ahead of the T420. But as a daily driver I think I'd rather use the Thinkpad. It's just a nice thing.
Most everything else I've come across has been annoying to maintain. A hard disk swap in the T420 is one screw, five if you count the ones that hold the drive into its caddy. RAM, one screw. Keyboard, two screws and a couple of ZIF clips for the ribbon cables. My old old Dell Studio (2008, still in use) had half a dozen captive screws to drop out the baseplate and you had full access to everything, it was a joy to work on. By comparison I replaced the drive in my partner's HP, it was a full tear-down and took me half a day. I did a friend's (Acer or Asus?) and it was a similar story. Granted this isn't a concern for most 'normal' people but I figure, technician-hostile and user-hostile are likely bedfellows.
I've not seen HP's business laptop offering. It wouldn't surprise me if they were excellent, HPs consumer range and HP enterprise are very different beasts.
But as a daily driver I think I’d rather use the Thinkpad. It’s just a nice thing.
We replaced Lenovo (plastic outer, not sure about the chassis) with cheaper Dells in work last year for use in clinics and for formal use in ward rounds etc.
That was a mistake and our trust quickly reverted to the Lenovos.
They suffer an unbelievable amount of abuse and are much, much nicer to use.
As much as I'm an XPS fanboi for personal use, the cheaper Dells feel like a toy in comparison to the Thinkpads. The screens are more legible, the keyboards last and they survive abuse.
Great kit.
If we have a choice of laptops for home working, everyone takes the Thinkpads first.
Just to point out the cpu in the Amazon referb is a 8th gen cpu from 2017 so a five year old design, it will run win11 but if memory serves it’s beaten performance wise by current gen (12/13) i3 processors.
A m1 mac would feel much snappier
Just to echo the thumbs up for lenovo. I am no expert and asked the what laptop question on here a few years ago and went with the newest/best refurbished lenovo thinkpad t series my budget allowed (t450 at the time). I am very impressed with the build quality and its not missed a beat, and easy to repair/upgrade bits (not had to).Work use the smaller x series which are good too if mobility is a priority. Not sure if there are good refurbished deals around just now though or an option for you.
In seriousness though, what’s “good work” in this context?
Analyis, simulation and modelling in R. Then fun stuff like lightroom.
Both of course are available on windows but I prefer the speed and simplicity of running them on MacOS. The OS separation from work is welcome too.
Looks like the OP is sorted with a reasonable spec PC.
Interesting the love for Lenovo. Every ThinkPad I’ve had from IBM to my current Lenovo has been a hateful box of junk with disappointing performance, weak battery life, and the most awful soap-on-a-rope PSUs for travelling. The saving grace of my current one is that it has USB-C power input so I can use a less cumbersome travel adapter from my Mac when its 2 hour battery expires.
i7 Dell XPS 17 user here and it's by far the best laptop I've used. Was £2.5k a couple of years ago though
Lenovo lover here, especially the T series but they are getting a little pricey now. The other models are a little less reliable but thats usually the mechanical parts. It's not just reliability but also the quality of service when things go wrong. The helpline is reachable and actually helpful. On the business models i buy I've had them send a guy on a motorcycle with spare parts to fix it the next day. Even during covid with my home machine they told me they couldn't do home visits but i could just take it to my office and they would see me there. The only machine I have which is nicer is my surface pro which I have to fight my wife for
Not going to get into the MacOS vs Windows fight, but I would suggest not spending money on a laptop with a 17" screen, but instead getting one with a smaller screen and an external monitor+keyboard.
And FWIW I've got an HP sitting downstairs as my personal laptop, and I'm using a Dell here for work. Both are fine and seem fairly well-built.
I’ve not seen HP’s business laptop offering. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were excellent, HPs consumer range and HP enterprise are very different beasts.
I used to work for HP, I wouldn't have any of their laptops below the ProBook range, that and above are decent.
As with most manufacturers their lower ranges are built down to a price point where most of the public will (when they've taken even that trouble) have a checklist of features they're looking for and the manufacturers will just jam as many as they can into the cheapest chassis they can get way with. It's amazing the creaky, bendy nonsense the maker can get away with if it's got a headline i7 whatever and a bargain basement SSD in the spec.
It’s amazing the creaky, bendy nonsense the maker can get away with
Yeah, but if it's going to be sitting on a desk for 99% of its life, does it really matter? (And yes, that's also an argument for getting a "proper" tower PC, but as they seem to be ever rarer I get why most people end up with laptops. Even if they never actually move them.)
Lenovo will be all that’s left after the apocalypse aside from cockroaches and Nokia 3310s.
I'll caveat that and say that applies to the business grade stuff. My C series Ideapad is alright but that's about it. Still good for consumer level though, I've seen machines burn out before now.
@saxonrider in your position I would be getting a refurbished Lenovo from Amazon. My Dad did and his is great.
Lenovo ThinkPad T470 Ultrabook - 14in HD (1366x768) Core i5-6200U 8GB 256GB SSD HDMI USB-C WebCam WiFi Windows 10 Professional 64-bit PC Laptop (Renewed) https://amzn.eu/d/3iF40PG
With regards video editing: as far as I am aware simply cutting videos doesn't take much CPU power as I have done this on very weak machines. Applying effects and stuff like image stabilization is what takes power.
With regards video editing: as far as I am aware simply cutting videos doesn’t take much CPU power as I have done this on very weak machines.
Rendering takes a lot of CPU power.
When do you need to render?
People were editing videos 10 years ago in HD so shouldn't you be able to do the same now on relatively weak hardware? Honest question, I don't know. Like I said I've used cheap hardware to cut videos before and it wasn't a big deal.
As a M1 mac user i am considering going back to windows purely because MS Office to Mac is nothing like as good as MS Office for Windows. I know its no great surprise but when you are used to the windows version for work using the Mac version at home is frustrating
thols2
Free Member
With regards video editing: as far as I am aware simply cutting videos doesn’t take much CPU power as I have done this on very weak machines.Rendering takes a lot of CPU power.
Depends on the software, their demands vary wildly.
e.g. NCH VideoPad really will run on a toaster with a potato and two electrodes for a power supply, I've no idea what the magic it's pulling is, but it does. And TBH probably does everything you ever actually need at home.
Davinci free is very CPU intensive (and slow), the paid for version runs on the GPU.
Avid is just plain expensive, and works best on a server, or a very expensive workstation.
Ditto Edious scales well, but will just about run on a home PC. And does cool stuff like task scheduling so you can render and export in the background whilst still working.
I've never had to use any of the Mac specific software.
Just opened a tiny spreadsheet on my M1 Mac, I had to wait about 5s for it to respond. Not sure how that's 'scarily fast'. I do wonder what people mean when they say this.
This machine cost £1800 (not of my money mind) and whilst it's nice, it's not that nice!
For a bit of balance, I've had 2 of those business Lenovos. The first one, a W520 had a bad ram slot, the WiFi aerial popped off (fixable) and the connection to the magnet that determines when the lid is closed is faulty. So I had to disable the lid close action and now I manually put it to sleep. Also whilst the chassis is cast magnesium the plastic case broke very easily and I had to glue it back together multiple times. That said, it's still going after 10 years and is my Zwift machine. The second one, a W540 was fine except the plastic case was slightly proud of the underlying top and clicked a bit when typing.
I've had T and X-series IBM and then Lenovo Thinkpads. My last work Windows laptop was an HP Spectre. My last work Laptop was a MacBook. Out of that lot my favourite was the Spectre, my least favourite the MacBook. Now it's my money I'm spending I've got an HP Envy which is almost as nice as the Spectre but rather cheaper.