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I'm trying to be offended but can't find any pictures. 🙁
Do you think the message that we should be putting out in the world, is extreme sports are for men? If you’re a woman & skinny enough you can join in to, but you have to be wearing next to nothing & stand there holding a sign
There's a differentiation between holding a sign an participants. There are plenty of extremes sports participants of all genders in the world.
With regard to pit sign holders, they can and should be a job for anyone. Again, XGames has used scantily clad young ladies which most on here don't agree with, but haven't proved they aren't the only willing applicants and therefore thats the result, or they're being exploited for the role.
PrinceJohn
Do you think the message that we should be putting out in the world, is extreme sports are for men? If you’re a woman & skinny enough you can join in to, but you have to be wearing next to nothing & stand there holding a sign.
okay but you know they have women competing in the events right?
I’m asking for someone to explain what’s wrong with it when the assumption is that the job is open to all and people are not being exploited
It promotes sexism
okay but you know they have women competing in the events right?
Not the greatest argument, it's wasn't that long ago that women competitors where having to threaten a boycot of the x-games.
So yea, it does come across as exactly the problem people are complaining about, that there was money to pay women to stand arround in bikinis, but not enough that the 1st place women was paid less than the last place man (pre-boycot).
okay but you know they have women competing in the events right?
Yes I am aware - however, is the prize money equal, are there equal numbers of competitors in both mens & womens events?
thisisnotaspoon
Not the greatest argument, it’s wasn’t that long ago that women competitors where having to threaten a boycot of the x-games.
So yea, it does come across as exactly the problem people are complaining about, that there was money to pay women to stand arround in bikinis, but not enough that the 1st place women was paid less than the last place man (pre-boycot).
Lol nice try drawing me in but i'm not making an argument, merely pointing out that PrinceJohn's post, and i quote...
PrinceJohn
Do you think the message that we should be putting out in the world, is extreme sports are for men? If you’re a woman & skinny enough you can join in to, but you have to be wearing next to nothing & stand there holding a sign.
...is a loada shit
I’m asking for someone to explain what’s wrong with it when the assumption is that the job is open to all and people are not being exploited
It promotes sexism
Did you read the question?
Look at it this way - if it just so happens that only good looking girls applied for these roles, should we then deny them all the job until an appropriate mix of gender/race etc is met on the basis that it might look sexist? Is that then unfair to them?
Genuine question.
Again, XGames has used scantily clad young ladies which most on here don’t agree with, but haven’t proved they aren’t the only willing applicants and therefore thats the result, or they’re being exploited for the role.
It's not about 'exploitation' of the models themselves, I'm have no reason to think they aren't well paid or that they don't enjoy their job. Rather it's about the image it sends to impressionable young people. The boys are here to sport, the girls are here to look pretty for the gratification of the boys when they're not sporting. That's not a great message to be sending to teenagers of either gender.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be arguing that the only reason there aren't pit boys is because no-one here can prove that the organisers aren't offering jobs to them, rather there simply isn't any blokes who want to do it. And I find it hard to believe that anyone could genuinely be that naive.
if it just so happens that only good looking girls applied for these roles
That they apply for the role is a big assumption, I'd imagine its more; organiser contacts model agency asking for 20 hotties > agency goes through their list to see who's available > skimpy clothes applied
I doubt it would be as appropriate a strategy when selling IT hardware or the like..
I dunno, the insinuation earlier was that the target audience for X-Games was socially inadequate male virgins, so you might be on to something there.
Someone is making a choice to use a pic of a nice looking woman when a picture of a petrol pump or something will do the job perfectly fine.
Why does it need a stock picture at all? Are there readers out there wondering "petrol pumps... what do they look like, then?"
Rather it’s about the image it sends to impressionable young people.
Yes I agree, I've a 13yo and soon to be 10yo myself.
And I find it hard to believe that anyone could genuinely be that naive.
I'm not that niaive, but most people on here have a assumed this
That they apply for the role is a big assumption, I’d imagine its more; organiser contacts model agency asking for 20 hotties > agency goes through their list to see who’s available > skimpy clothes applied
Note the words "I imagine". No one here has proved this. What I'm asking is that - equally assumed - it just happened to be that the successful applicants were all young attractive females, should we nullify the outcome and re-run the process to ensure more equality is presented, and is that then fair to those that have possibly lost a job to that morality?
Note the words “I imagine”. No one here has proved this
You really think they are going out and hiring every single person involved in the games? The hunt for your proof is daft, you wont get any proof on the matter (one way or the other) unless an X Games organiser happens to be on the forum
Lol nice try drawing me in but i’m not making an argument, merely pointing out that PrinceJohn’s post, and i quote…
PrinceJohn
Do you think the message that we should be putting out in the world, is extreme sports are for men? If you’re a woman & skinny enough you can join in to, but you have to be wearing next to nothing & stand there holding a sign.
…is a loada shit
Is it tho?
This is a link to the results page - http://www.xgames.com/events/2022/summer/results/
19 events there - only 2 appear to be women's, both of those for skateboarding.
Doesn't appear to be any women in BMX or MotoX. Unless you can tell me differently. So my argument stands.
Why does it need a stock picture at all? Are there readers out there wondering “petrol pumps… what do they look like, then?”
They need to fill the page up with something. Like when you did an essay at school but didn't really have any content....
Equally mashr, why claim otherwise? The argument is then moot. No one here actually knows for sure whether those girls were fairly or unfairly employed or whether the outward morale presentation is deliberate or not.
If you have an issue, you should write to XGames where the correct thing to do is explain the morale perception and ask that some equality is applied, even though that may mean that some of those girls may lose a job.
@Kryton57 I'm confused, you're saying it's fine to have attractive pit girls there as eye candy (and eye candy only) because no-one on a MTB forum has actual evidence that they're there just to be eye candy? Are you suggesting it's a coincidence?
Kryton57 seems to be missing to point spectacularly.
In other news, Hugh Hefner just wanted some help around the house. It's not his fault all the applicants were female.
What I’m asking is that – equally assumed – it just happened to be that the successful applicants were all young attractive females, should we nullify the outcome and re-run the process to ensure more equality is presented, and is that then fair to those that have possibly lost a job to that morality?
You're not really though, are you, you already know the answer to that 'question'. It's a trap straight out of the Political Correctness Gone Mad playbook, it'll be Muslims banning Christmas next.
They're there because, rightly or wrongly, the organisers believe that it's what their audience want to see. Whilst we're all making rash assumptions, I'd wager that photo of Tom Daly above wouldn't be of massive appeal to the majority of the Pistonheads forum.
And maybe that's the real problem. In pandering to one demographic are they not risking alienating other potential viewers who fall outside of those who have one sock inexplicitly less bendy than the other? Are they telling them that if they aren't part of the club then they aren't welcome?
I don't see an inherent problem with "sex sells," it's a fact whether we like it or not. If (most) boys and girls didn't find each other sexually appealing we'd have died out millennia ago. What I do think is problematic is gender conditioning; we are getting better at this but have a long way to go yet. Boys get Action Man and his tank, girls get Barbie and her kitchen. Boys get told they can be an astronaut or a scientist or a footballer, girls get told that if they aren't pretty then they'll never get a boyfriend. What message is X-Games sending?
I don't see anything wrong with the pit girls.
I know what my traditional late grandma would say ... LOL!
Normally, she would say along the line of whether the girls' hips are ready for bearing reproduction or whether the girls have big enough milk jug to feed the infants. The girls good look or sexy is a good sign because they can attract wealthy partners ... LOL!
I remember my uncle brought home my aunt, she was his gf at that time and wore hot pants all the time, and my grandma would "check" her all over to see if she was a healthy specimen. All my other aunties and uncles would say to my grandma she was rude to check her out and my grandma would tell them off by saying "What do you guys know!" She did the same to the men/bf of my aunties too.
The other wisdom my grandma taught us was "you can have a hooker as a wife but you cannot turn your wife into hooker". The former can be explained as a man being able to look after the family, while the latter is a loser (a pimp). LOL!
Also a very traditional way of saying to young girls/boys is "if you don't study hard you will end up like them ... " LOL!
p/s: when my aunt wore hot pants showing her cheeks my grandma would laugh by saying she could not afford to buy right size clothing etc ... My grandma was a practical person and it is all about functions. LOL!
As a father to three young girls (aged 5-10) I think it's really important that people like the OP point out this sort of thing, that people make a noise about it, and that when there's an opportunity to influence how things are done people consider how to make it better.
Being a father (to girls particularly) has made me much more aware of how pervasive the whole gender stereotyping thing is (first as a baby, then at nursery and at school to a lesser extent). I want my girls to grow up seeing no difference in what they aspire to do career wise or hobby-wise. I don't mind sexualisation of some things in principle, but I would rather they grow up seeing it shared out between men and women rather than being one sided.
Great to hear the voices of support in this thread, and perhaps through reading these discussions others can gain a better understanding about why it's an issue worth doing something about even if it doesn't effect them directly.
Because there’s no men in hot pants and that’s before we start with objectifying the human form.
Did i read it wrong or was Cougar not just expressing interest there.:?
It could be a new career direction for him.
It'd probably pay better than this job but I doubt I'd have a positive impact on their viewing figures.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, I’m asking for someone to explain what’s wrong with it when the assumption is that the job is open to all and people are not being exploited. No one seems capable of answering that as yet.
i'll repeat myself
It perpetuates objectification. Flip the “they’re being paid” argument around – how many women are missing out on jobs because the recruiter can’t see them as anything more than an object of desire?
to expand on that, no one is suggesting it's not ok to fancy attractive people. But there is a difference between seeking out attractive people with minimal clothes for your own entertainment (that is worth a different discussion), and it being presented to you completely out of context in a sporting event. The former is personal choice whereas the latter normalises attitudes that perpetuate gender inequality.
The former is personal choice whereas the latter normalises attitudes that perpetuate gender inequality.
The latter is the failed attitudes of self.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that chewkw. Could you explain?
thinksta
Full MemberI’m not sure I understand what you mean by that chewkw. Could you explain?
I wouldn't bother, you'll just give yourself a headache. e.g his first post singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/x-games-pit-girls/page/3/#post-12475514
I’m trying to be offended but can’t find any pictures. 🙁
I'm too busy watching YouTube compilations of Lingerie Football League games - finally, a team sport I can get behind!
LingerieLegend Football League
Have some respect, sheesh
I know what my traditional late grandma would say … LOL!
Thank god that attitude is 3-4 generations ago & dying out.
I didn’t realise the x-games was still a thing.
Here's my measure.
I would be happy for my 6 yr old daughter to watch/see/be inspired by X games. I wouldnt want to have to explain to her why "those girls are standing around in their pants".
I wouldnt want to have to explain to her why ladies in Amsterdams red light district are standing around in their pants, but its a bit different as its not something i would expose a 6yr old to.
There is a time and a place, but X games seems too inclusive an event (interesting to a wide range of people) for it to be appropriate.
I didn’t realise the x-games was still a thing.
Are you confusing it with the ex-games?
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that chewkw. Could you explain?
That sounds a bit like the religious authority in my part of the world for blaming "sexy" clothing corrupting the mind of the men. They always blame the sexy girls/clothing for corrupting their minds, never for one minute they think it is their own fault for seeing "sexiness" in others.
Thank god that attitude is 3-4 generations ago & dying out.
Some of the traditional attitudes can go but not all are bad. You just need to know the reasons and logic behind them to understand why they have different views.
I would be happy for my 6 yr old daughter to watch/see/be inspired by X games. I wouldnt want to have to explain to her why “those girls are standing around in their pants”.
I am not sure what is there to explain if she does not ask? I don't think she would notice anything other than few adult ladies.
I wouldnt want to have to explain to her why ladies in Amsterdams red light district are standing around in their pants, but its a bit different as its not something i would expose a 6yr old to.
Why would you bring a 6 yr old there in the first place?
There is a time and a place, but X games seems too inclusive an event (interesting to a wide range of people) for it to be appropriate.
Why go if you think there will be inappropriateness?
Lol, you all know X-Games is US based? And you're surprised they have a different attitude to the average STWer?
It's like the whole shit-show of American politics and polarization is new to you all...
is new to you all…
*Y'all
*Y’all
Doh, of course!
I didn’t realise the x-games was still a thing.
This. I see plenty of folk posting about FIS and the like but never once anything about XGames. They're an anachronism trying to stay relevant. Quite appropriate really.
FWIW I find the prize purse differential between the mens and womens events more problematic than whether or not they have pit candy.
As for justifying watching it in 2022, you're a grown man, you're allowed to watch a sporting event even if you find some side aspects problematic. I'm sure your wife and daughter are more than capable of understanding that even if they don't agree.
Lets see.
3 folk outing themselves as dinosaurs. 4 kids getting all excited. Two flounces and a banning?
Seems about par for a thread like this. I haven't bothered reading it
Dinosaurs?
Aren't you thinking of the Rex games?
Aren’t you thinking of the Rex games?
We can't call Invictus that until Harry gets crowned.
As a father to three young girls (aged 5-10) I think it’s really important that people like the OP point out this sort of thing, that people make a noise about it, and that when there’s an opportunity to influence how things are done people consider how to make it better.
Being a father (to girls particularly) has made me much more aware of how pervasive the whole gender stereotyping thing is (first as a baby, then at nursery and at school to a lesser extent). I want my girls to grow up seeing no difference in what they aspire to do career wise or hobby-wise. I don’t mind sexualisation of some things in principle, but I would rather they grow up seeing it shared out between men and women rather than being one sided.
Great to hear the voices of support in this thread, and perhaps through reading these discussions others can gain a better understanding about why it’s an issue worth doing something about even if it doesn’t effect them directly.
IMO the best post here. I wouldn't want either of my kids to have a sexually focused job, but if they did I'd do my best to support them and ensure they were treated equally, which includes overdiscrimination.
So I take it this is about the monster girls:
https://www.monsterenergy.com/gb/en/monster-girls
Going by the amount of yoofs you see buried in their phones, it's a fair bet that most of those watching the X games are gonna be on the 'gram.
So, let's take a quick look at some instagram following figures... here's the top five medallists from the Women's BMX Freestyle Olympics:
https://www.instagram.com/hannah_roberts_bmx/?hl=en 26.1K followers
https://www.instagram.com/perrisbenegas/?hl=en 67K followers
https://www.instagram.com/nikita.ducarroz/?hl=en 69.2K followers
https://www.instagram.com/chazworther/?hl=en 73.5K followers
https://www.instagram.com/_natalyadiehm/?hl=en 17.5K followers
Added together that tallies up to a combined total of 253.3K followers
By comparison, the monster girls have...
https://www.instagram.com/monsterenergygirls/?hl=en
363K
However, not all is lost; Skateboarder Sky Brown has 1.3m...
https://www.instagram.com/skybrown/?hl=en
Just don't mention the record breaking X games athlete Leticia Bufoni, who despite her achievements, still parades around in a bikini at every opportunity, gaining 4.3m followers in the process...
https://www.instagram.com/leticiabufoni/?hl=en
My god, hand-wringing about pretty girls... This forum is becoming a parody of itself.
👌
With a bit of luck, many of those on the forum will encourage their kids to follow the athletes, helping swing the balance...
At the end of the day, investment is generally related to promotional value and advertising revenue, so it all boils down to a numbers game
As it stands, it's clearly a strategy that works for Monster Energy
If the girls wants to earn a living this way then who are we to tell them they can’t? Of course it’s not for most people but for some it’s what they want to do
If the girls wants to earn a living this way then who are we to tell them they can’t? Of course it’s not for most people but for some it’s what they want to do
Dear god there really is no hope!!
Dear god there really is no hope!!
Yes, that says it all really. You're not going to persuade (50%?) of the population to change, so why bother preaching to a population which doesn't give a shit?
Ignore them and live your own life...
Aren’t you thinking of the Rex games?
Well, I laughed.
If the girls wants to earn a living this way then who are we to tell them they can’t? Of course it’s not for most people but for some it’s what they want to do
Dear god there really is no hope!!
It's actually an interesting point.
I don't know anything about these women (and I'm damned if I'm wading through a JHJ Wall O' Links) but I'm reasonably confident of one thing: They're almost certainly earning vastly more money than I am. It could well be that one of them is using it as a side gig to finance her PhD. It could be that another has absolutely no redeeming features other than a great rack.
So now suddenly what we have here in this discussion is mostly a bunch of (well-meaning) middle-aged blokes dictating to young women what they can and cannot do, again. Sorry love, you can't stand there pouting any more because it's objectifying women so your mum's chemo will have to wait.
Maybe the issue isn't their career choice but its appropriateness at this sort of event. Or maybe as I said at the outset, that it's all so very one-sided. That lingerie football thing someone was talking about earlier, do they have scantily-clad cheerleaders built like Chris Hemsworth?
Complicated, isn't it.
Btw
Girls refers to those before menarche. Its women after that age
I very much doubt a girl/woman destined for a career in nuclear science/medicine/other high grade career job is going to be swayed by anything a Monster Pit Girl does or earns.
And it just needs a brief look on social media to see how thousands of young women see careers as influencers (thinly veiled eye candy) as a legitimate career choice.
Complicated, isn’t it.
Not really. No one is criticising the women for taking these roles, some of us are pointing out the naffness of the x games for providing them. It's just a bit pointless.
To what extent it's a symptom of women being valued more for their looks, and related long running inequalities can be discussed if you really feel the need. But it's the tackiness that's the turn off.
careers as influencers... as a legitimate career choice.
I actually wrote that just now and then deleted it.
Complicated, isn’t it.
Not at all, its the men running these events that my problem is with followed by the brainless morons who go along and/or watch on telly and think, aunt it great this lady with almost no clothes on I get to look at
I very much doubt a girl/woman destined for a career in nuclear science/medicine/other high grade career job is going to be swayed by anything a Monster Pit Girl does or earns.
Life is full of normal distributions, shift the middle just a bit and you have a big effect!!
Girls refers to those before menarche. Its women after that age
Best tell my wife that as she refers to all of her female friends as girls - even those past retirement age.
naffness of the x games for providing them
It's probably out of the X Games hands; it's more down to one of their major sponsors, Monster Energy
Best tell my wife that as she refers to all of her female friends as girls
Are any of them pit girls?
My daughter is 19 and I can say there’s no normal in the career choices her ex schoolfriends have made. Although becoming a Psychology Teacher seems a popular option!
Probably half have gone to Uni - one studying Law (alongside an instagram option too). One who’s parents pushed her horrendously from Primary school now has a 1yr old child (parents were gutted when they found out). Several earning good money in chain restaurants and one earning a shit-load on OnlyFans.
My daughter - she shovels horse-shit 7 days a week! 🤣🤣
Meh… I’m struggling to be too outraged
Not everyone has the ability to be a lawyer/scientist/doctor/whatever is deemed an acceptable career on here. I imagine the alternative for quite a lot of the girls that see a career as an influencer or promotions girl as aspirational, is a career selling makeup at boots
If you don’t like the ethos of the x games, don’t watch it
I’m damned if I’m wading through a JHJ Wall O’ Links
Given the thread, maybe you should give it a try.
Bunch of white middle-aged blokes deciding they know what's best for women again?
Imagine my surprise.
.
Dear god there really is no hope!!
i agree. Why should you decide what these lashes choose to do for a living. What else are you going to decide women shouldn’t have the choice to do
Maybe it's their embarrassing boner they are trying to stop?
Edit: Just to clarify, I don't think the brands should be promoting themselves or sports this way. But there shouldn't be a problem for someone to talk to their family about what the women are doing.
The question isn't around whether they should have the freedom to choose, of course they should. The question is whether there should be a job there at all for them to choose to do.
Is it still right that we use young girls as essentially advertising sex coupled to a brand? Do you think this helps counter the attitude that women are things to be taken/owned/bought?
Anyone is free to do whatever they want with their body, but when it's coupled to the idea of sex(y) and selling, It's the wrong message.
Clearly brainwashed scotroutes
(I'll let you tell her that)
😀
And while we're at it we'll get rid of 90% of the cimema industry, pop music videos, most of the glossy printed press, most television shows...
It's Monster selling tins of tooth-rotting, heart-disease-inducing, mildy stimulating tins of shit to spotty adolescent boys.
I hope the ladies that do it have a ball and enjoy spending their hard earned. They aren't the problem, anyone stupid enough to consume Monster most definitely is. Tax it!
Do you think this helps counter the attitude that women are things to be taken/owned/bought?
And that women are to be seen but not heard. You know when STW publishes something outside of MTB focus on FB and instagram and folk (normally Americans) start screaming ‘don’t talk politics’ or ‘only talk about MTB’? It’s the same for these girls when they post stuff other than T&A, all from men telling them to ‘stay in their lane’, and that their opinions are neither expected nor wanted.
You reckon those attitudes are just reserved for insta models, or all women they encounter?
I do love how many people here are missing the point.
It's the lack of aspiration for any female watching the X-Games, as I pointed out earlier, from 19 events, only 2 seemed to be for women & those were both skateboarding.
That's not good enough - if a young girl is watching they're only going to see skateboarding or bikini'ing as an option for them, not BMX, not MotoX. Representation is important.
Watch this -
for the hard of understanding it'll help give you a woman's perspective of how hard it is when representation doesn't exist.
Meanwhile it's fun to be called a handwringer for just trying to make a better inclusive world for our daughters.
Why go if you think there will be inappropriateness?
Cause i dont see why an event that is to do with sports should be taken off limits because some brands are happy including soft porn in their brand image.
Why would you bring a 6 yr old there in the first place?
i wouldnt, as stated (though i did go around with my Girlfriend, Ex girlfriend an Ex girlfriends mother, once)
I am not sure what is there to explain if she does not ask?
i dont know about yours, but mine would.
Calling people hard of understanding doesn't help though does it?
That's beautifully put PrinceJohn.
It's also interesting that it's the people who have an issue with the OP's original point who describe "outrage" and "handwringing", when the point being made is neither of these things - rather it is a sensible and measured criticism of the way a sport is being managed and publicised in a sexist way. It wasn't a comment on the individuals who are employed to stand there looking sexy.
I would also add to those who suggest that kids might not pick up on this sort of thing: They definitely do. The way society normalises certain things is immensely influential - I see it in my kids and others, in ways that they are conscious of and not. Things have definitely improved since I was a kid, but being a parent has made me much more aware of how far we still have to go to move towards an equitable society.
I think it's brilliant that people point these issues out, and even if people go too far with it sometimes (which I don't we are here) it's in an effort to make the world a better place for everyone, which in my view is an honourable endeavour.
Thanks Thinksta.
Calling people hard of understanding doesn’t help though does it?
I was biting my tongue. Should I have been harsher? Maybe said for the sexist dickheads on this forum who seem happy to alienate 50% of the population?
Why should you decide what these lashes choose to do for a living. What else are you going to decide women shouldn’t have the choice to do
Like I said, no hope. Are you really that stupid or did you not read any of the previous posts?
By the why what does lashes mean?
You guys really aren't going to improve your daughters world by calling people stupid.
I dunno about that, being able to recognise stupid people is probably a useful life skill.
But it won't open their eyes or change their views.