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Hi all, just looking for a bit if advice.
I had a new bathroom fitted 12 months ago, only a small bathroom around 7ft by 7ft. New floor ceiling the lot. Floor was re-enforced using 18" ply and I had 600×600 tiles on top of ditra mat ontop of the 18" ply.
After 4 months the tiles near the door started coming loose and all the grout coming out the joints. The plumber I used who did the flooring but not the tiling got his tiler to come back and they decided to replace the 2 tiles near the door, after a few months it started happening again as there is too much movement in the floor. The plumber advised if it happens again I'd have to change the flooring to click flooring as they can't keep replacing tiles.
I've now noticed that the shower tray is creaking and most of the tiles click and crack as you walk on them. I've contacted the plumber who tells me he'll give me a quote for taking out the toilet and basin and rip out the flooring and prep the floor for a new flooring to be put down and then refit the toilet and basin.
I'm OK with paying for the new flooring but do you think I should have to pay him to take out it out and refit as it wasn't done correctly in the first place. The ply floor I noticed at the time had a bounce to it and he quoted to make the floor good which he should if done before attempting to fit any flooring.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Use vinyl flooring, not tiles.
Did you pay the plumber for a bathroom with tiles on the floor? If you did and they are loose after a few months doesn’t on the face of it sound like things are of satisfactory quality. Ie it’s the plumbers responsibility to make good even if that is a lot of work. Enforcing them to do so May not be straightforward if they blame your house moving as something they couldn’t legislate for, for example.
Floor was re-enforced using 18″ ply and I had 600×600 tiles on top of ditra mat ontop of the 18″ ply.
Sounds like you paid to have the sub floor reinforced to a suitable standard for the tiles.
If the tiles are moving the floor isn't up to the job and/or they've used the wrong adhesive - more felxible adhesive is available.
I guess the question is, did the plumber do the whole supply and fit piece, for the sub floor and tiling?
If they did then they are on the hook for it. If they didn't, then you may struggle, but if he did the tiling, he should have advised that the sub floor wasn't suitable.
I had a new kitchen 18 months ago. The fitters ummd and aahd about the amount of flex in the floor for tiles. In the end, the strengthened bits of the sub floor before tiling.
Don't accept click lock.
Use vinyl flooring, not tiles
+1
I'd do this on any bathroom floor but especially a flexible wooden, one. Bit late now but if it's all to be relaid anyway nows the time for a rethink
In my experience
99% of trades these days are shysters. There is an excess of work and a complete lack of willingness to do a decent job. Thrash out whats there, cut corners and get to the next payday.
your plumber will have disappeared in two weeks if you chase them for remediation work.
sorry, its a shame but your stuffed….
Foreign construction dimensions here but ditra is good for 5/8" ply (16mm) plus on 16" on center joists.
Obviously your span and structure is also important
It's possible to install tile on ditra poorly e.g. not filling the voids completly etc.
Ditra I've seen fail has been prefill waffles with tiles set later.
Nothing wrong with tile on floors if installed right.
I probably would have overboard the floor with Hardibacker or Nomoreply before adding the Ditra. If it's only 7 x 7 and you're using 600 x 600 tiles there really shouldn't be any movement at all. I wouldn't want to be paying any extra to sort it out.
Concrete/cement backerboard offers no real benefit as far as floor deflection. Waste of material really to use both.
I have a similar problem to the OP with my bathroom floor tiles, none have cracked but they move slightly and make a cracking sound. It's a bit annoying (not sure if the electric underfloor heating contributed to either there being more settling movement than expected or it perhaps causing the backing grout to crack or something?) but I've just learned to live with it now. I'd def go for some sort of vinyl flooring instead if doing it again though
Thinking out load. When installing the ply how much attention was made in keeping it in a single plane? Was there any joins / thin strips near the door?
The most practical solution might still be to remove tiles and replace with lino.
My bathroom is in progress and lino was an easy choice.
Previous floor had loose, wonky tiles funny enough.
<p>As Dirksdiggker says, Ditra on top of properly screwed and supported 18mm ply and flexible adhesive the tiles shouldn’t be going anywhere, there should be next to no flex in the subfloor, I’ve seen tiles badly laid on top of hardboard, 6mm mdf, 6mm ply, you name it and somehow they’ve stayed down.</p><p>Did you contract the tiler separate to the plumber or did the plumber arrange everything. If the former then you’re on the hook to pay the plumber again I’m afraid, if the later, then it’s the plumbers problem. <br /><br /></p><p>There’s no need to have click lock, nearly all floors are able to be stiffened to accept tile if required.</p>
will be impressed if the plumber sorts it out for you, even if he sub contracted the tiling.
you basically gave zero warranty with most trades. Yes, you should have, but the reality of trying to get them to agree to the work and actually turn up is bascially nil. Especially with unregulated trades.
Rip it out and start again would be my advice.
Did they lay the ply onto the floor boards or straight down on the joists?
If joists go 25mm, if floorboards ensure that they are aquare and level before you start, use 18mmm.
Then screw the ply down with probably 5 x 50 screws, loads
Full bed adhesive from BAL or MAPEI.
then set the tiles pretty much as they were before
Unless your joists flex it should be rock solid
If the shower tray is not stable the whole thing needs redoing unfortunately. Even if you fix the floor the tray is going to leak and undermine the whole area.
When we put down fancy tiles in our bathroom upstairs my job was to lay 18mm marine ply over the existing floor and then put 50mm screws at 100mm intervals over its entire area. Was about 2000 screws in total but the floor had zero movement. Could be the 18mm ply was put down but not secured enough and it's eventually come loose. The 100mm centred screws was apparently essential for preventing tiles cracking etc..
Took me all day and I burnt out my drill.
Could be the 18mm ply was put down but not secured enough and it’s eventually come loose
That's what I've been wondering too. 18mm is a lot, but only if tied properly to the beams underneath otherwise it will move enough to cause problems 🙁
tied properly to the beams underneath
Actually, with Schluter, they specifically call for the additional layer of ply to *not* be screwed to the joist structure but to be screwed to the subfloor below.
schluters handbook is great if you want to avoid problems. Unfortunately some assume just using that layer of orange is a problem solver on its own.