[Closed] WWSTD Shouty boss content

no pudding?

Buy in next year, three against one on the board, kick him out.

If only trailwagger.

You need to have a calm word.

Record one of his outbursts (have your mobile set up so you have a shortcut to begin recording).
Arrange a meeting with everyone present and then when he denies shouting play the recording back to him. Explain that it isn't acceptable and see what his response is.

"Don't shout, it makes you look stupid" Said in a slow, calm voice.

Worked when I saw it done.

Lady had a habit of shouty rants at people in an open office. All eyes on her and colleague she was shouting at, he said that: magic. Put a stop to it as long as I was there.

Once you've bought in, you own part of the business. Tell him to fark off. You can remind him you could all kick him out.

Bit more difficult when you are all 'employees' - my boss get's all shouty - you can't debate with him as he flies into a rant (we are all employees though) and he sends some right shirty emails. I have found it better to have as little contact as possible with him and just get on with stuff.

Film it.
Or invite in a third party as some sort of integration / development / catalyst type role who can witness and report back.

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on the kitchen fridge/his computer screen etc

I'd go for the recording the rant thing myself.

Recording, all of those buying in have a meeting with him. Show the video. say it has to stop.

United front, not one of you having a quiet word

I once replied to a similar shouty arsehole , not my boss though,

“Don’t you dare shout at me... I wouldn’t take that from my wife and I get to shag her, so I certainly won’t be taking it from you!”

I’d love to say it worked but it didn’t.
He grabbed a hold of the front of my shirt and pushed me up against the wall. 😧

Sort all this out before you buy in. Trust me on this one, I’ve had experience of it - once you’ve put your money it makes things a lot trickier. Have a proper chat to him and if you can’t resolve it look at all your options and if you don’t think it’s 100% going to work don’t do it. You’ll be even worse off when he decides he still wants to work in 4 years time...

No you can’t just buy in and kick him out... 🙄 unless he’s really stupid in how it’s structured.

He grabbed a hold of the front of my shirt and pushed me up against the wall.

Phwoar

I’d love to say it worked but it didn’t.
He grabbed a hold of the front of my shirt and pushed me up against the wall.

Ooh, foreplay? Sounds like your luck was changing 😂

Damnit! 41secs too slow!

Ooh, foreplay? Sounds like your luck was changing 😂

His luck was changing. For the worse.

I ignored his squealing and only released him from the wrist lock (Kote Gaeshi, martial arts fans!) after informing him that if he ever extended a hand in my direction again I’d make sure that he drew back a useless stump.

The one and only time that those years of training were ever put to practical use.

Perchy you’ve never looked as hawt as you do right now!

I is well hench innit.

that's one buff QS

Marital Artist

So OP - the answer is a Chinese Burn (is that what they're called now?).

that’s one buff QS

... with one wrinkled shirt.

So, it’s not all good.

I’m happy to go round the OPs workplace and knock seven shades of shite out of her gaffer in my new found capacity as an internet hardman

I like the 'don't shout, it makes you look stupid' response.

An ex-boss of mine had a tyrant as a boss (so my 2 levels up). If he got into a shouting match with him, he'd calmly stand up, pick up his papers and walk out of his office. When the boss kept shouting at him about what he was doing he simply said he couldn't sit there while he was being shouted at, so could do one of two things. Either he'd go away and come back when the boss had calmed down and they could discuss it as adults. Or he'd go and get HR to sit in because first hand evidence of his behaviour would be easier for them to deal with rather than 'he said, she said' reports.

I assume there is no proper HR function where you are?

An aikidoist.

"I"

Flush

"Will"

Flush gurgle

"Not"

Flush gurgle cough

"Be"

Flush gurgle cough splutter

"Spoken"

Etc.

Shit on his desk?

I'd shout back louder

An aikidoist

Onzadog - have you done this... I was supposed to be on a Verbal Aikido course, to deal with an abusive (gaslighting rather that outright shouty abusive) situation, but it got cancelled. I am waiting for a reschedule but is it worthwhile chasing down another course instead?

An aikidoist

Aikidoka

Have a chat, talk in a way you'd like to be spoken to.

Don't do the phone thing, whilst it might get you a 'result' it aint cool. I don't think it contributes to a culture of trust within an organisation.

How can we get it across to him that this isn’t acceptable?

Right then..

The statement about “don’t shout it makes you look stupid” has only ever worked once with me. 2nd time I used it it pretty much belted back down at me in front of about 40 staff, including my direct reports and above.

It was embarrassing, more for him, but to be honest you are going to have to pick the Right Place, at the Right Time to deploy that method.. Choose wisely.

I have had many instances of this type of Macho behaviour from Senior Mgrs in my time (M&F) try casting your mind back to the 90’s Investment Banking era and it was rotten from bottom to the top with this particular character. You either shouted back or nothing got done. Some people like a challenge. Politics didn’t work, shouting did.

However, we are all grown ups now aren’t we? Well I can tell you that I have One report who is exactly like this now, even in this day and age. I’ve just been through the ringer for one of my programmes that’s gone to shit (my problem, I’ll sort it) and this new incumbent tore a strip off me in from of 2 senior Dirs, they know nothing of the situation but concluded that I’m a **** incapable ****, and I got the opportunity to speak directly to them to explain the position and they’re more than happy with my PTG solution.. hasn’t stopped shouty boy though..

I just calmly state my case, logically and thoroughly in a calm manner totally ignoring the heightened anxiety emanating from shouty boy.

I am right in all my actions, this is what you need to be sure of too. As long as you are right and have the capacity to detach the volume from the message you’ll be fine.

Oh, and a quiet word in thier ear just winds them up into a fury.. believe me.

I’d never record or video the interaction, that’s not correct IMO.

They do know what they are doing, and how they are acting.. that’s a given. Showing them a video or recording will only lead to far worse problems

IMO

I was supposed to be on a Verbal Aikido course, to deal with an abusive (gaslighting rather that outright shouty abusive) situation, but it got cancelled.

...or maybe you just got told it was cancelled to prevent you going?

Perchy.
Your Jackie Chan scene,was it really a bit more record shop? 😉

I acvtually doubt they realise what they are doing. I had a boss like this - I ended up moving as I feared I was going to loose my temper with her but I spoke to her boss and told her that if she shouted at me again I was going to say " please do not shout at me its unprofessional" and if appropriate leave the room.

I would certainly use this tactic in these sorts of situations. Its unacceptable to shout at people.

Merely instruct him to 'talk to the hand', while raising ones hand and facing him with an open palm.

In reality if he's a self-entitled dick close to retirement he's probably not going to suddenly change his behaviour.
What leverage (for the stick rather than carrot approach) do you have? How dependent is his comfortable requirement dependent on you buying-in and how dependent is your future on you buying-in? If he needs you more than you need him then I'd confront him every time, as a united front, and make it clear it's unacceptable and that if it continues the buy-in will be in jeopardy.
If you can't risk using the buy-in as leverage I'd just stock up on stress-balls and ride it out for 4 years...

Make it a condition of your buy in that the shouty one goes to see someone about his anger issues, retraining if you like. Bring this up at a meeting between all the directors and discuss the ongoing behaviour that is deemed to be unacceptable with an action plan in place to address it. If you (and the others) can't do this in a grown up calm manner and see it through then it's unlikey investing your own money into the company is the right thing for you. As one of the directors you could be faced with any number of more serious incidents which will require tact and steadfastness. Best test yourself first before putting yourself in this position.

Perchy,if you are good at it,are you an OK Aikidoka ?

Your Jackie Chan scene,was it really a bit more record shop?

More kebab shop I’d have said.

The guy was a big bully who loved to try and intimidate people verbally by taking the piss out of them.
That didn’t work on me because I was much better at it* than he was.
He escalated to shouting, then rapidly to physical contact and when these didn’t work spent the next six years being openly hostile and trying to get me sacked. I retaliated in kind and we rached a stalemate which eventually descended into complete avoidance of each other which suited me fine.

*Taking the piss - this is my kung fu and it is strong. 😉

I offered to go home as clients were due to arrive. We have never had a repeat.

as a minor sticking plaster over the OP's issue, a strategy for shouties at whatever level is to empathise "I can see that this is something that makes you feel very angry..." That really winds the ****ers up.

Have experience of a similar management style in the past, as you say the explosion has little to do the person it’s directed at. Assuming the person involved is of a similar age to the other director you aren’t going to change their behaviour. The best realistic aim would be to ensure its taken out on you or the other people buying in rather than someone lower down in the food chain.

I’d be more concerned about the terms of the buy in particularly whether collectively you would be able to out vote the person involved. If you can’t, unless whatever you are do requires a huge investment in equipment, it would be worth considering a breakaway company rather than buying in. Running a second generation company when directors have had to borrow money to buy in is hard enough. Doing this when you can’t get to the steering wheel is something I’d think twice about.

Filming it sn't the worst idea. You then need to sit down with him (individually so he doesn't become defensive). Explain to him what you saw, how it affect the staff and why it needs to stop. If he denies it then back it up with the video evidence. Perhaps get one of your reports to put in a formal complaint against him. My wife once had this treatment and when she put in a complaint it was met enthusiastically. The person in question was a known problem and they just needed some one to officially report it to take more severe action.

If that fails, buy an air horn.

If that fails, buy an air horn.

👍🤣🤣🤣👏

If this is happening within a formal , structured meeting then the walk out option is good . BUT , I would ensure that another high up would also leave the room , making the meeting pointless. A simple statement of fact , along the lines of 'Shouting at me is pointless and does nothing positive " followed by a swift exit . I have done it . Bit different as i was blatently lied to in a meeting . I called out the liar , they refused to retract so off i went . I am not going to sit in a meeting and be lied too , waste of my time.
If people want to sit in meetings and kid themselves that something that happened .- didnt then they are crazy .
As for shouty man, if there is n-one there who is he going to shout at ?
Also , I have been Mr shouty , but only when I have relayed specific instructions , that have been acknowledged , then ignored

I'd probably go with something like "who do you think you're talking to?"

@theotherjonv nailed it on the first page. Just walk away. They can either conduct the conversation later on when they've calmed down, or with a HR representative present.

I've had these types in workplaces in the past and I have zero tolerance for it. It's a job, you're not paid to be abused. I had enough of bullies at school, I'm damned if I'm putting up with it as an adult.

See, I knew you were the guys for the job.

Apologies for the delay, I've taken the day off to ride!!

Thanks for all the help and experience especially bikebuoy and fuzzywuzzy. It's quite a small company which is good but bad in the way we don't really have an hr dept it's just the accounts lady and she works part time!!

I'm a relaxed person so when he starts shouting I just put up with it, some other have been reduced to tears. I will try the walking out method. But I did broach it with him yesterday calmly where he denied shouting at me as his voice started to get louder.

Buying in, is good for all of our futures. The company has a really good name in our industry, all of the consultants know us etc but he has mentioned we're not going to have the majority. It's all still up on the air at the moment, we're having a sit down later this month and are being given the terms then so we'll know more. Just need him to sort himself out!!!!!!
Thank you all

but he has mentioned we’re not going to have the majority.

What happens when he retires?

Do you have to buy in again for his share?

Does he sit in retirement and cream off the lions share of the profits whilst you do all the work?

That’s the situation I’d want clarity on.

We buy him out when he retires so it becomes our company

tc but he has mentioned we’re not going to have the majority. It’s all still up on the air at the moment, we’re having a sit down later this month and are being given the terms then so we’ll know more.

So if there is 3 of you and 1 of him and you are bit getting a majority then I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. You need a really good solicitor and probably accountant to set that bit out. Because depending on how the "shares" are arranged you could very well end up buying him out at way more than you paid for the other 3 and way more than the business is worth.
As for shouty people, the calm repeat thing works wonders. Get everyone who he shouts at to simply say " when you shout I feel we don't communicate well, we should come back to this later" but don't walk away. He will continue shouting. Repeat, over and over, as calmly as possible. Eventually it will stop. You'll find a lot of the better trained call centre employees use the calm repeat thing on callers a lit to good effect.

If that fails, administer a swift bitch-slap.
You need to start establishing a new hierarchy.

When I started working for a new company around 10 years ago, the number 2 was a bit of a shouty . Day 2 , he started kicking off at me in earshot of the big boss. I held my hand up, said hang on a minute, then walked past him,along the corridor to the next office , where the big boss was sat rolling his eyes. I said to him you better put that **** on a leash or I shall be off ( and yes, I did use those exact words). Seemed to do the trick ( they needed me more than I needed them at the time), as he never shouted at me again.
No one should have to put up with that sort of shit at work FFS

This won’t be helpful, sorry OP. I too have suffered the wrath of the shouty man baby boss. I employed the tactic of seeing how angry and red I could make him. I calmly stood up in a meeting once and proceeded to adopt a confused look. Touching my clothes and looking bewildered.

Shouty McShout face asked me what the hell I was doing. I explained that I was confused as work seemed to have turned in to basic training for the military in the 60’s. He didn’t like that and got louder and redder.

Asked for a day off at short notice, he went apoplectic with rage. I sauntered off in the middle of his arm waving and shouting. Came back with two pieces of A4 with yes and no written on them and slowly moved one towards him then the other whilst whispering pick one.

My long term goal was to break him, but I left for a different job before I could complete my plan. The man was an utter incompetence arsehat.

Three of you are buying in, yet you won't get a majority?
You need at least 51% between you so you can outvote Boss No.2, otherwise Boss 2 will be Boss 1 until he retires, and even then may not sell up, and take a backseat while you do the work for him to keep 50% of the profits.
I'd be making plans now to start a new Company when the other Boss retires. You have contacts for your customers, have a quiet word with them, see if they'd come with you when you do a new start up.

Cromolyolly thanks I'll give that a try

Funkmasterp, that's hilarious, maybe I'll save that one if all else fails

He has said he wants to retire at 66 (4 years from summer 19) and so far we know that he wants the same buy out price as the other director plus inflation (which with brexit, he will probably owe us money 😁)

Insure of % shares at the moment will find out in the meeting later this month. fingers crossed

Agreed. My dad bought into a company where 3 partners had 49% and one MD had 51%. It was a a shitshow - they couldn't get the MD to do anything.

Appreciate it's a different context, but with angry, shouty students my approach is to stay as infuriatingly calm as possible and just point out there's no need to shout and it makes it REALLY difficult to discuss the issue at hand in any kind of adult and productive way if it carries on. I then won't continue the conversation until I get the conditions I want.

Despite having worked in industry before teaching, I never encountered this type of boss so no real idea whether there's any mileage in a calm, mature (but ultimately stubborn) approach to defusing these situations.