Wrong decision?

Risk vs Reward, only you can really know what's right for you.

From your previous posts on this I'd be polishing up my CV and making a move.

Seems you're a good salesman or you wouldn't have got to where you are, and reading between the lines it sounds like there's just not the demand for the new software.

Mature markets don't change rapidly as people/companies are set in their ways. Often the only reason to change the status quo is if the 'new' offers big benefits.

Would your ex-employer re-employ you?
Brightly or Dude or whatever their current name is dominate the UK market and that's unlikely to change so...take a pragmatic view.
If you stay where you are stress levels and possible health impacts are unlikely to improve; corporate pressure to improve performance won't go away.
Start implementing your exit plan.

What's more important for you, reducing stress levels, spending more time with family, etc. Or, given previous posts are you going to constantly beat yourself up because you'll have (perceived) failed in this challenge?

Whose perception? Those that have set unreasonable targets? You? Will your wife and kids consider you a failure as a result?

You have to decide what's important to you and those who count.

Start looking, NOW, it's too easy to be the frog being boiled alive and by the time it all falls apart you'll be broken and in no fit state to job hunt. Plus it's easier to get a job whilst in a job.

If it all pans out you've lost nothing and if it doesn't you've started plan B so got a few months head start on that.

To be clear this isn’t a question of stress / work life balance, it’s much better where I am. I don’t like to quit, but I don’t want to be stupid either. And it’s no point pointing fingers above becuase if the decision that leads to needing a fall guy no one about will take a bullet for me, that isn’t how corporates work.

This is my own perception, there’s no reason why I can’t carry on and maybe get a break soon. Having a plan B though is likely a good idea, thanks.

launch a new software product into a very mature UK market

Risk vs Reward, only you can really know what’s right for you.

I agree with this.  I'm in a similar position to you, though moved internally to a position going into a new market.  I walked away from a territory which was subsequently successful only to find product gaps / covid meant that the new market has been more of a challenge than anticipated.  I'm still fighting issues but can't bring myself to walk away after working so hard to build what is there now and the potential recognition / reward IF it finally comes good (it would be agonising to see someone else walk in and get this instead).  I've given it until the end of the financial year until I reconsider.  Seems to be there's still loads of tech sales jobs available, and given the drop in experience of incoming sellers I've seen in recent year at my place, you've probably got a good chance of getting a new role pretty quickly if you bring a strong track record / experience with you.

I've got to the point in life now where, if I was feeling like this, I'd have an honest conversation with my boss. If I had the sort of boss where I couldn't have an honest conversation, I only wish I'd learned this without going through the crap I did.

@razorrazoo - thanks, we are in very similar position and with me enabling other sales members also, this means I’d have done a years work only to see others succeed which is great for the company but a kick in the teeth for my personal outcomes.

My industry experience and CV should stand me in good stead should I go and I do want to make this work, so perhaps carrying on until maybe I’m pushed is the way to go. I have lots of opportunities despite the uphill struggle and know the market very well.

Having said all that, this is my worry not something I’ve been told/hinted at so maybe the tiredness and the man flu plus my natural paranoia needs to be put back in the box! In the world of CBT, it’s very much a “what if”.

I do want to make this work, so perhaps carrying on until maybe I’m pushed is the way to go.

I suspect you'll know to go before being pushed.  In my position the company has acknowledged that I'm in a tough place and I've been cut slack to reflect this (plus some MBOs in place to offset lack of sales comp). I'm sure patience will run out either way at some point but I intend to remain in control.  It has been painful watch others being successful/promoted where I was previously but hindsight and all that (plus many others are in a far worse position).  Always have to remind myself - sales success is made up of 3 things - talent, territory and timing, the latter 2 are difficult to fully control.  Anyhow, back to filling in Salesforce :-/

Sounds like you need a holiday. Take a week off and spend some time at Centreparcs 😉😂

All the people I know in tech/software sales are on a merry-go-round of changing employers. and yo-yo between bonuses bigger than my salary and sudden redundancies.

It won't be a handicap having this "failure" on your CV, especially given the events of the last few years.

Or they may realise they have given you an impossible task and they wont get any better by replacing you.

lol @revs1972 I'm begging to think I may as well post my real name, address and NI number on here 😉

razorrazoo - again thanks for the level headed post, all things I know but easy to forget. On the plus side I've got a round table with a major Gov dept tomorrow and just checked my email to find 2 other invites with large UK corporates within April, so I'm at the table.... fingers crossed, next steps, salesforce etc 😀

Or they may realise they have given you an impossible task and they wont get any better by replacing you.

Now that I know how the commission part of my salary was calculated its pretty obvious its not based on a true measure of a new line of business, but a blanket sales commission method covering an established business. And I know why, it was to remove the complexity and almost individualised sales commission plans but that makes me a victim of the circumstance. But look, having successfully launched and sold (I have sold, but not to a level I'm used to) a new line of business on my CV would be good compensation.

What's not clear to me here is what your employer thinks. Do they feel you're underperforming, or are they quite happy and this is all pressure you've heaped onto yourself?

I don’t like to quit, but I don’t want to be stupid either.

You don't have to quit to start jobseeking. The best time to get a new job is when you already have one.

What’s not clear to me here is what your employer thinks. Do they feel you’re underperforming, or are they quite happy and this is all pressure you’ve heaped onto yourself?

Pressure on myself Cougar to be fair, based on the knowledge of how Sales people can be treated / have been treated at my old place. and the % to target I'm currently at. Sales is a performance profession.

I think you need to ask yourself honestly , 'is the software any good', and 'does it do what the customers want, rather than what the sales team think the customers want'. I work in a very technically sophisticated industry, previously on both the software side and now the ops side, with some very mature players in the market. Most of the new software I see now ticks all the buzzwords, but doesn't do anything to make my life easier or give me better results, and will thus die. I believe this to be true for about 90% of new software and if you can't get sales, then that might be where you sit.
Do you have line of sight to adoption by users? Or are you just looking to replace mature software?

I think only you can really know the answer to this.

If you are not too unhappy, id stick with it for a bit. Be clear in your own mind its not gonna work to avoid the nagging "what ifs" further down the line.

I’d just be having a conversation with my direct report. I also create my own stress and assume I’m doing a crap job (imposter syndrome) and a chat with my boss normally puts me at ease.

My old Boss was a dedicated Sales Professional of the Hunter Variety.

I did 8 years of sales and worked out that I was OK'ish as a farmer.

When he started a new company (his third, but first with his own money) he employed me as a Project Manager. It was a software company, delivering a new product to an established marketplace. The USPs were the focus on a single vertical and a more traditional commercial proposal to the one used by all other suppliers.

He and the Sales Director (also a long term Sales Pro with a HUGE network of relevant contacts) said it was the hardest sales role they had ever done. Knocking down doors was relentless and it took over two years to start seeing good results. It was three years before the first group deal landed.

I think you are being too hard on yourself. However, it sounds like the company are being too hard on you and have unrealistic targets. I would start looking for something else unless the owners are also knocking on doors.

launch a new software product into a very mature UK market

Well that's going to take several years to make any significant traction.

Even if you have an amazing product, existing users of competitors products aren't going to drop it overnight - all the hassle of training and re-skilling required etc. Plus it's just not a priority....

Pressure on myself Cougar to be fair, based on the knowledge of how Sales people can be treated / have been treated at my old place. and the % to target I’m currently at. Sales is a performance profession.

Then, you know what I'm going to say to you next and can save me a lot of typing, don't you. 😁

You aren't at your old place anymore and you jumped ship precisely to get away from this shit, now you've just brought it with you. Stop it.

It sounds like you are hit with unachievable targets. In terms of sticking it for the long term, I would be thinking of it as risk and reward. It might be worth the risk of seeing this through for the next 2-3 years if the result of getting an increase in market share means that you personally are going to receive life changing benefits (monetary or otherwise). If the result of increased success is every increasing targets and responsibility without substantial reward then it wouldn't be for me. Do you have an ownership interest?

What are you flogging ?

A dead horse?

As a Sales Manager, you don't want to be a cheerleader for your salespeople, or making sales for them. Unless you are managing resources, it won't change.

So, you need to have control over (or input into) inbound lead generation, marketing strategy + spend, product development, production, hiring, training + firing of (sales) staff and distribution. These are the elements where your decisons will influence performance over a group of people.

How's your 'flu like' today?

First, thanks for all the useful info so far.

How’s your ‘flu like’ today?

Rubbish - less muscle aches today, but yesterday afternoon I went completly deaf in one ear and half deaf in the other and am trying really hard not to be like the guy from Blackhawk Down during Teams calls.

So, you need to have control over (or input into) inbound lead generation, marketing strategy + spend, product development, production.

I am doing this for my own product line within the UK with each department representative and directly with BDR's - shaping outbound campaigns for them.

hiring, training + firing of (sales) staff and distribution. These are the elements where your decisons will influence performance over a group of people.

As part of the management team I have influence in this & sales process, I just don't have direct reports to manage - perhaps the perfect outcome!

The points that Footflpas and MrGrim make are very appropriate and perhaps it's a bit naive of me to think that those above me don't understand that. Nervertheless I am seemingly positioned by default as industry/solution sales specialist in UK & Europe. One outcome of this is I'm repositioned to work in global solutions sales which appears to be happening by "stealth" anyway, at least currently!

If you don't entirely believe in the value of the product you are being asked to sell, perhaps you should think about something else.

If you don’t entirely believe in the value of the product you are being asked to sell,

I didnt say that. I left the market leader - my current product is better, albeit new to the region.

Get pregnant

Why does it sell in other regions and not Europe?

I will never regret leaving technical sales. You are completely at the mercy of a distant management team with usually unrealistic expectation levels of what sales you should be achieving with a product that's not nearly as clever as they think after a decade plus of underinvestment. I'm going climbing with my replacement tomorrow ha ha - still there, still whinging

I’m going climbing with my replacement tomorrow

Did you have to show them the ropes?

Did you have to show them the ropes?

Enough to get a decent foothold in the position no doubt.

@kryton57

Most important factors are…

* Do the customers you are selling to like the product / churn rate.
* How well funded is the co / runway.

The enterprise sales world is tough for all co’s right now. May not be the same even if you go bk to old co. I know people smashing quota last year struggling in a big way this Q at multiple co’s.

If the below two points are good everything is fixable / negotiable.

Early stage is tough, have a sit down with the CEO and be open.

Do the customers you are selling to like the product / churn rate.

All of the conversations and demos to my old customers and other customer have commented that it’s leaps an bound beyond the current UK market. Remember I have sold, not least to a big UK customer that has three of our competitors already in it, and they’ve bought it to test against those in a Live scenario becuase they see the benefit. This is a Live eval before the contract renewals in ‘24 - great opportunity there.

Churn rates for my product and competitors are low - as you no doubt know Enterprise products are often hard to shift due to the cost of change / data migration / implementation away from the incumbent. Add to the a lack of local reputation and being an unknown quantity adds risk, although my own personal reputation (sorry to brag but I am known for personal honesty and customer success as a long time industry player) counts a little toward that.

How well funded is the co / runway.

I’m not subject to the costs, for UK they are paying for me, a pre sales expert and the Azure platforms, all other teams E.g. marketing are shared with other product lines which of course dilutes the direct cost. Our company is a leading multi €bn SaaS org Funded by PE.

All this and prior text tells me “it’ll happen it’s just a question of when”. Going back to the OP my concern is of how long the company’s patience is. I probably need 3-5 more customer purchases - and it’d help if one of those was one of the 3 Enterprise opps I’m currently discussing - for me to feel comfortable of still being here in 2024. Worth bearing in mind there are 18 other Sales people that could sell it and prove the product not just me, and I can take the credit this year for enabling/ assisting them which also helps my reputation albeit not my quota.

I know people smashing quota last year struggling in a big way

Me too. Just in my industry the market leader lost £6m (from a £18m business) to their nearest competitor last year and that competitor just got a public slating from a large customer last week. Both companies have lots of movement in their Sales teams.

Sounds to me I misread the implied situation (to me) at first and the atmosphere, QOL etc., is better. Having been made ill by a toxic workplace culture I wouldn't undervalue that. But as you say, if you don't perform in your sort of role it can be taken away whether you want it or not.

Sounds to me that with your knowledge and experience you have a future market leading product, but that position doesn't change overnight or easily. If they are long established in SaaS they'll know that really. Of course they will set aggressive targets, especially if PE backed but sounds to me you need to do three things:

1/ (keep) telling yourself you are the right man for the job, I don't think it's a stretch to say you can lack confidence in your own abilities but the man in the mirror (no not MJ, eehee) is often the sternest critic

2/ keep pounding the streets and gaining the confidence in the product - in the market, in you, and your bosses - that if the sales don't come immediately they can see them genuinely on a reasonable and deliverable timeframe for both parties.

3/ If they are established in SaaS, any others in equivalent positions, either now or in the past; bringing a new product to market against a leader(s) who can either allay your fears, or advise you to be on the look out. And also to give some guidance on the kinds of things to say or not say.

It sounds to me it's about buying time and some of that is telling the bosses the truth but in ways that they will accept. Given time it'll either fly or not, and then we can answer your OP question.

@kryton57

Sounds really positive.

In reality outside of your shortcuts / quick wins to prove yourself you're likely talking a 1-3 year sales cycle all in, especially in todays market. It will compound and build over time.

You should jump up and down for more targeted brand marketing spend to go over the accounts you are trying to close if you want to speed things up and highlight your concerns. No excuse for co of that size to enter new market weak and cheap. They are probably just as concerned about you leaving if you are good but struggling on getting the salary you want due to market slowdown. Recruiter fees at VP level are not cheap, then think about onboarding time/cost. Negotiate.

Obv apply your own salt, I'm commenting knowing 1% of the facts.

@sillysilly your are right, thanks for posting. And so is TOJV's insights. I haven't underpriced re weak & cheap - in a list of the Top 7 my analysis shows we are third from the top from most expensive on price but equally if not above the top 2 on functionality. I'm confident I'm in a good place there - you can have a very good, proven and more advanced product for a shade less than the market leaders, but valued above the runners up.

There is a fair amount of marketing going on and a lot I do myself. At least one poster on here knows who I am so a spot on my Linkedin profile next Tuesday will show a nice piece of value based social marketing I created today.

They are probably just as concerned about you leaving if you are good but struggling on getting the salary you want

Interesting point, yesterday I was told I'm being cut into a multi product deal and it was alluded that this was to ensure my commissions can be earned. SPIFs for non commissionable effort have also been mentioned.