[Closed] Would you risk it?

I thought not taxed invalidated the insurance these days? If true, the only thing that you would have going for you is a valid MoT.

I could be wrong, but I thought that driving without insurance is for sure a criminal offence.

I would be really not keen on driving it anywhere near a port, purely because of the level of ANPR around these places. You'd be screwed, assuming that you weren't arrested in France.

No, definitely not. Sounds like massive asshattery.

What process at the DVLA means it can't be taxed ?

Ca you explain a bit more. If everything else is in order. MOT and insurance. Why can't you tax it?

Easiest way is probably to do it online.

ANPR cameras would almost definitely catch you out.

Why can't you tax it? It's instant online now.

Unless you are trying to save pennies by doing it at a certain time of the month.

DVLA don't have my postcode so I have to send off a form that takes 6 weeks to process so that they can send me out a reminder to pay my tax.

Turns out the garage I bought it from only gave the DVLA my name and through whatever circumstances I was in at the time missed the fact I was never sent my registration documents.

No I wouldn't.

I are also confused why tax no be possible.

edit

the garage I bought it from only gave the DVLA my name

So the DVLA must think you live at the garage's address?

The ANPR cameras may already have caught me but the DVLA don't have an address to send the fine to 😀

It's £30 a year tax and I really want to pay it ASAP, but the DVLA won't actually accept it due to the address issue.

So the DVLA must think you live at the garage’s address?

Nope they think the car lives at no address.

Some police forces have devolved powers from DVLA that enables officers to remove untaxed vehicles from the road. The seizure applies to untaxed vehicles after 2 months and a day. (The Vehicle Excise Duty (Immobilisation, Removal and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1997).

So if it's untaxed beyond that day, you're possibly in play of getting picked up by a mobile ANPR or otherwise pulled by the police and having your motor towed off - which is not desirable if it's laden with bikes and kit!

Set fire to it on your drive and then get a hire car based on your insurance policy*.

*You may not be insured and/or go to prison.

but the DVLA won’t actually accept it due to the address issue.

Cant you tax online? Quick look shows you can use either the new driver slip or the vehicle logbook number.

Nope they think the car lives at no address.

I must admit that is a special new category of incompetence from the DVLA right there.

So you also have no registration documents in your name?

Good luck if you get stopped overseas then.

also, wasn't it taxed before you drove it away given the way that the new owner taxes the vehicle laws work? Most dealers just fill the form in online and you tax it there and then.

Id have a good think about how much of a royal pita it would be if you were stopped by french police for some minor misdeameanor and this coming to light.
Or being stopped by a gb traffic car because you’ve triggered the anpr camera onboard it.
And as much as your insurance co say you’re still insured, I wouldn’t like to test that in court.
Don’t do it, it’s not worth the hassle IMO.

Quick look shows you can use either the new driver slip or the vehicle logbook number.

Not if you've not got the logbook because the DVLA can't send it to you as they don't have your address and require you to send a different form to them that takes 6 weeks to process so that they can update the address.

Honestly it's mental.

The new owener slip is only valid for a short period of time, which admittedly I should have sent off (almost 3 years ago) but forgot.

Every month the DVLA sweeps their database for cars without tax and sends a letter to... oh.

almost 3 years ago

So untaxed for 3 years (less whatever tax you bought it with)?

As per @deluded post, if it's under 2 months, I'd risk it. We haven't quite given up good judgement for mindless following of rules yet.

I'd drive, along with copies of whatever stuff you have to prove you've made a decent attempt to tax it. The Police, as a rule don't like fulfilling the role of tax collectors and in my experience couldn't give 2 figs as long as you've got a valid license and insurance.

3 years? Wow.

TBH France is the least of your worries, they don't know and don't care whether you've paid your local road licensing.

Well 2 years as you pay for the tax at the garage when you take ownership, completely my fault that I just forgot that I hadn't set up a new DD for the new tax etc, but without a reminder and given it's £30 tax as opposed to the £300+ I used to pay I just completely forgot.

You forgot (and didn't pay) for two years?
Sorry, but tough sh*t.

It's £30 sharkbait, I've paid DD for years on all my previous cars. Not wishing to sound a prick but I wouldn't notice if a £30 pound DD had left my account or not, you set them up precisely so you can forget.

What I should have remembered is I never got the owners doc.

3 years of driving an untaxed car? Well, I must say this ANPR thing isn't all it's cracked up to be...

I’m pretty sure that some post offices will do the ownership, car tax form that is done there and then and over rides all previous registration, tax etc..

I'm failing to see how the DVLA is to blame.

Kind of my thinking too there Johnners.

I drive about 10k a year, have driven it abroad before and would have done this time too. It's the knowing that I'm doing something wrong now that is causing the dilemma.

TBH I'd still risk it, you've gotten this far...

They're not to blame Drac, but their process of not being able to update an address on a system for 6 weeks without a paper doc' is a little archaic in my opinion.

You can go to the post office, fill out the V62 form but if the address at the DVLA doesn't match your postcode the post office can't tax the car, and you can't update your postcode at the post office without there being a postcode on the DVLA's system in the first place.

TBH I’d still risk it, you’ve gotten this far…

It's more the lack of V5C if you get stopped in France.

It’s more the lack of V5C if you get stopped in France.

I've never taken mine, in fact for 6 years of company car 'ownership' I never had one.

can't you just get the train to France then hire a car?

https://www.drive-france.com/faqs/what-do-i-need-drive-france/

Compulsory Documents

Driving Licence, Passport, Car Insurance Policy, V5 Document (Log Book). The MOT certificate is also compulsory to carry if your car requires one.

I’ve never taken mine, in fact for 6 years of company car ‘ownership’ I never had one.

Your mistake.

Your mistake.

Or an accepted risk.

I didn't have headlight adaptors this year. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your mistake.

Actually, given the post you are replying to, you are actually incorrect about the documents required.

If you have a company/salary sacrifice/lease car you are unlikely to have access to the V5 as you don't actually own the car (the leasing/controlling company keep hold of it). What you have to ask the leasing/controlling company for is a VE103B (Vehicle on Hire Certificate), which is your proof of right to be operating the vehicle.

Won't the car just use GPS to decide it's in France and adjust the headlights itself? Most recent Skodas do...

Actually, given the post you are replying to, you are actually incorrect about the documents required.

I stand corrected. Every days a school day, etc.

Or an accepted risk.

Indeed.

And as much as your insurance co say you’re still insured, I wouldn’t like to test that in court.

There is a clause at the very end of our insurance doc saying something like "failure to tax / mot the vehicle does not invalidate our obligation to provide 3rd party insurance". I believe all ins cos have to do this.

So, as I understand it,

I'm not committing the "no insurance" crime if I drive without tax / MOT

But...

I might be civilly liable for any losses I cause the ins co. should a claim arise in that time if it might reasonably be attributed to me for driving an untaxed/unmot'd vehicle

As you say - bit of a ball-ache to test that in court though. Insurance companies have usually got expensive lawyers...

Has your driving licence got the correct address on it?

Yep, and the DVLA has a record of all my MOTs against the vehicle.

There is a clause at the very end of our insurance doc saying something like “failure to tax / mot the vehicle does not invalidate our obligation to provide 3rd party insurance”. I believe all ins cos have to do this.

So you're not committing an offence but won't necessarily be covered for personal loss. Like, of your car for example? I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that on a 3 year old motor.

Take this in a constructive criticism type way. But you really do not sound to me like you should be on the road as any sensible road user would agree.

you really do not sound to me like you should be on the road as any sensible road user would agree.

sounds a bit harsh to me. but maybe that's because it sounds like the kind of thing i would do

What happens to all the potential backlog of 'no address found' offences that the ANPR system thinks it's found - when you do manage to get the address sorted out?

Is your post box going to be full?

I personally wouldn't drive it, especially into another country on holiday. Tempting fate.

Don't risk it !

Too late to edit the above.

What happens if you get followed by a Police car?
They generally all have ANPR cameras now so will pull you when it comes back with no address.

I'd not expect them to be lenient either, as the crime is blatant - irrespective of circumstances.

Set fire to it on your drive and then get a hire car based on your insurance policy*.

Always check over your shoulder when doing this. Many years ago dad was called out to a car on fire at Haywards Heath railway station car park. As they arrived to put it out there was a policeman standing nearby with a gentleman he'd just arrested. The man in question had parked up got out of his car and without looking around him set fire to his own car. The policeman had watched the whole episode and waited for it to go up in flames before introducing himself to the motorist. 🙂

Hmmm... I do have matches.

The ANPR can't be that effective. My cars MOT record on the DVLA suggests it's done 18,000 miles without being detected so far.

ANPR is as effective as checking a database and running a set of scripts. It's the sort of thing that just about any business with a website does these day. I would suggest that 'being caught' is likely to be a matter of time due to the way that most government systems seem to interoperate.

I assume if you confess up to the DVLA that you've been the owner for the last 3 years,and not taxed it for 2,then they'll fine you for not taxing it or putting it on sorn.

have you actually called the DVLA and spoken to them ? I had an issue around selling my late father's car earlier this year and there was no way online of doing what was required. I called them and it was sorted in minutes.

How are you going to sell it without all the info?

I've already confessed to the DVLA and spoken to them a couple of times since I've realised.

The circle goes around and around as they won't tax it without me having the V5, they need a postcode to send a V5 to and they can't update a postcode without a V62 which takes them 2 to 6 weeks to process.

The penalty I face I can't yet be sure of. It's £80 if you're detected by ANPR (plus tax), reducing to £40 for prompt payment and a maximum of £1000 if it goes to court.

The penalty for driving in France without proof of ownership is 130 euros, reducing to 80 for prompt payment.

Maybe naively but because it's system generated and if I've not been detected by ANPR I'll just get my first reminder notice and pay for my tax, which would be ridiculous.

In case it's unclear, I have sent the V62 and have tried to pay for the tax. But they will not accept my money until they've looked at the v62 for 6 weeks.

But the website says you can tax at a post office with a v62 on its own- apologies just seen your previous re po

3 years of driving an untaxed car? Well, I must say this ANPR thing isn’t all it’s cracked up to be…

Someone I know...definitely not me, nope... had their (at the time) wife get caught speeding in May, with a fine sent through etc etc..photos of the car etc etc..
..the insurance accidentally got cancelled in March of that year, and wasn't renewed until August... eek..

So a photo, of an uninsured car, yet no action taken... daft..

DrP

Well as I'm sure you've all been very worried I've had an entirely uneventful drive to the Alps and back and now just await whatever punishment the DVLA will dole out.

Why don't you buy an similar make/model/colour car on ebay, get that taxed and insured etc in your name, swap the numberplates onto your existing car, drive your existing car to the alps, then when you get back, swap everything back, cancel tax and insurance and sell the car you bought.

It's a no brainer

edit - i see i'm a week late with this plan

Hope you enjoyed your trip and the danger made it that much more exciting 😀

the danger made it that much more exciting

Thin end of the wedge innit.

There can only be escalation  from here

One day you're driving without VED, next thing you know you need more of that sweet, sweet danger and you're getting arrested*for having a tug in the produce aisle of Sainsbury's**.

*I'd imagine

**Other food retailers are available

Id have a good think about how much of a royal pita it would be if you were stopped by french police for some minor misdeameanor and this coming to light.

The Gendarmes won't even notice and if they do they won't be interested. They'll want to see the log book, insurance, the eco-pastille if you're in town on a polluted day, the MOT and your driving licence.

Sainsburys? No matter how far down this thrill seeking route I go I'll not risk my reputation of being seen shopping any where other than Waitrose.

What sort of a Yeti do you think I am?

Jeez.

AFAIK VED is just a revenue thing, it's not even endorsable in the UK. (It can also be bought up to one month retrospectively - If I buy tax today, it starts on the 1st!)

Of all the documents to be without tax is the least problematic AFAIC.

Also how is a French Rozzer going to work out if you've paid UK tax, and why would they care? How much budget to France want to put into helping to collect UK tax? Do they have access to the DVLA database?

The third party aspect of your motor insurance policy is sacrosanct, tax has no bearing on that. (Personally I doubt it would invalidate your fire, theft etc but who knows.)

So I'd be a tentative 'yes', tax is the one thing I don't worry about to much. (Although that's hypothetical since I always stay 100pc legal in terms of docs.)

Extraordinary story bro.

Or being stopped by a gb traffic car because you’ve triggered the anpr camera onboard it.

This does require there to be a traffic car actually on the road to catch you in the first place, which is pretty unlikely on the motorway. I doubt stopping someone on a motorway for no vehicle tax would fail a risk assessment anyway.

doubt stopping someone on a motorway for no vehicle tax would fail a risk assessment anyway.

Oops. Should be pass a risk assessment, not fail.