[Closed] Would you guarantee a mortgage for your brother-in-law?

I really wouldn't. I'd be very wary of it but given your circumstances (wife stopping work, your own job security) there's no way I'd see that as a good idea.

Are you prepared to pay his mortgage if he can't?

I'd not be a loan guarantor for anyone, full stop!

I wouldn't personally but that's just me.

If you have to ask the question, then no.

I suspect that the guarantor will need to put up collateral, not just show proof of income.

His parents could do that with their house?

I'd say no unless I could easily afford to pay his mortgage when he lost his job and was prepared to write off any money I spent doing so.

I'd suggest he buy a property he could afford unaided.

It wouldn't be an easy conversation though.

Given your circumstances, absolutely no way!

No, this is a crazy idea...

If even in these times of free credit (yes they are here again) the bank required this, then you have to ask whether you actually know better than the bank. What happens if he can't or won't pay?

It wouldn't be an easy conversation though.

Easy enough for them to ask it seems!
I wouldn't dream of asking anyone to do that.

I really think it depends on your relationship with your brother in law and whether you know deep down he is going to be able to afford the repayments, especially as the bank has calculated that they will only lend him x amount based upon his earnings, you also have the realist that interest rates will rise at some point in the future and the mortgage may rise significantly?

Difficult situation as to say no may cause friction, but to say yes carries some risk for you.

I was guarantor for my sister, but she was starting her own business and the risk was whether that business would be successful, but that was my own flesh and blood.

No. to many variables

Thanks, that's basically what I was thinking but it's going to cause no end of misery for me as my in-laws have previous history in making my life hell indirectly through my wife and this is just going to add to it. There is no doubt that if I say no it will be held against me for the rest of my days.

Cant afford the house he wants, the mortgage company have means tested his income and will offer him a lower amount within his means.

...and you would even consider risking it?

We are due a bubble/burst within a few years.

The question that jumped out to me was why can't he buy a cheaper house than the one he [b][b]wants[/b][/b]. My first was smaller than I would have liked but I bought within my means to get into the market.

Then I read this bit:

My wife is also giving up her job in August to go and train to be a teacher so I will be the sole earner. I'm an architect for a small firm and job security is never great as we are constantly scraping around for new work.

Not a chance. Why would you even consider being a guatantor. Don't you have your own situation to look after/worry about or would you prefer your brother in law over-stretches and gets what he wants at your risk?

If your BiL loses his job etc and you have to pay his mortgage, how would you feel if it resulted in you not eating/potentially being bankrupt.

Tell him to leave within his means- buy a smaller place or WAIT until he can afford like normal people do.

Guaranteed my sisters mortgage so she could leave her husband. No way she could get a mortgage otherwise. Circumstances made renting impractical. Did it through my own solicitor as well as hers. My solicitor spotted a few errors such as the wording that meant I would be guaranteeing the mortgage for whoever lived in the property for ever or something like that. Never had to pay any money. Ended after 12 years when she moved. Was proud to support my sister in time of need. Don't know if that helps.

Badnewz he say "No."

No.

That help?

Guaranteed my sisters mortgage so she could leave her husband.

No. Absolutely not.

If I was so loaded that I'd feel comfortable that doing this wasn't taking a risk with my own family's financial security then I'd be offering to put up enough money that the bank didn't need the guarantee, in exchange for a share in the equity in the house.

NO.

No way Jose!

No chance 😆

Seriously, a thousand times no. I would never think to ask an in-law of any kind to do this. What an awful position to put somebody in.

I would never do this and I would have to think pretty hard about it even if it was my own actual brother.

NO chance what so ever.

I have seen what a few '000 can do to a family, if this went pear shaped it would be a disaster.

Given your position I'd say no. If you sit him down and explain why I'm sure he'll understand.

Out of interest, is the place he's looking at towards the top end of what he can afford? Is there anything cheaper in the area?

just to add we once gave me BiL a few thousand to get him out of a situation. He paid it back. That sort of thing- definitely.

I wouldn't even stretch myself to afford a house that I want.

You've already stated the perfect reason why you can't help him. He cant take humbridge at only one of you working expected to guarantee a third.

Whats your wife's take on this ? Would she be 100% supportive of a no decision.

Thanks for all the advice. I should point out that my brother-in-law hasn't asked for the money directly and to be honest probably would never think about it. The idea has come from my wife and her mother who I could swear are determined to mentally cripple me by the time I'm 35!

My wife's brother is a really nice guy but if I wasn't married to his sister we would have nothing in common and no relationship at all so I'm not quite sure why I'm supposed to feel this overwhelming duty to help him at my own risk.

wwaswas - Member

I suspect that the guarantor will need to put up collateral, not just show proof of income.

[b]His parents could do that with their house?[/b]

This ^^^^^

Taxi25 - she would be 100% hell to live with if there was a "No" decision. It'll just fester and be brought up in every argument about unrelated matters for the rest of my life I imagine! Fun times ahead!

No.

The only thing I'd contemplate would to be a part owner and take rent for that share then potentially sell later after a valuation.

The idea has come from my wife and her mother who I could swear are determined to mentally cripple me by the time I'm 35!

It'll just fester and be brought up in every argument about unrelated matters for the rest of my life I imagine! Fun times ahead!

Sounds like you have a wonderful family life. Maybe you could go halves with the BIL and move in with him? 😉

No from the OP

Thanks, that's basically what I was thinking but it's going to cause no end of misery for me as my in-laws have previous history in making my life hell indirectly through my wife and this is just going to add to it. There is no doubt that if I say no it will be held against me for the rest of my days.

Double no from this.

[i]she would be 100% hell to live with if there was a "No" decision.[/i]

ask her if she'd *really* give up teacher training to get a job and pay his mortgage if the worst came to the worst.

woody2000 I think you might be on to something there!

No - Obviously.

Taxi25 - she would be 100% hell to live with if there was a "No" decision. It'll just fester and be brought up in every argument about unrelated matters for the rest of my life I imagine! Fun times ahead!

haha, is this when the classic MTFU answer appears?

No don't mix relationships and money. Your obviously not sure otherwise you wouldn't ask here. Also think about the context? He's living at home parents who have given up work because they didn't like their jobs. Common. The danger signals are all there. Mortgages are 20 or 25 years long. Your putting yourself in a long term pain position.

Bottom dollar mate if his mother and father are so keen why don't they go back to work and guarantee the mortgage for their son. As a parent of three I know what I would do.

Absolutely no way, no. Never.

The other obvious alternative is for him to buy a house within his price bracket. That's what the rest of us do.

My three rent, not ideal I know but their in their 20's and like most need to move with jobs. So renting is far easier

I'd say no, but only you know if the friction it would cause is worth the risk it creates.

I had a similar position, with my BiL. He asked me to act as guarantor for a loan to get him out of debt spiral issues - refinancing his debts was a sensible thing to do, but the issue being that he had a bad credit history meant he was looking at a loan with some ludicrous APR. Not quite payday loan rates but something like 30% apr. I refused, not wanting to be linked to his credit rating and have my unblemished record dragged down, and instead took out my own loan at 4.9%, which i then gifted to him and he pays back the instalments.

Except - he then ****ed up again (literally, he got a girl up the duff) and now has to pay almost a third of his salary out in CSA payments. As a result, he's broke, and i haven't seen a repayment from him for over a year now. He owes me close on £7K and i suspect I won't see it again, from him at least (his Mum has promised I will, even if it's when she pegs out and it comes out of the estate before what's left is distributed). But there's no denying the £250 per month instalments going out each month would be more handy than £7K at some point in the future.

Even now - my head says no way but if it was the case of doing it again compared to him being in the same shit but to some proper lender - well, he's family isn't he?

His parents are not prepared to put there property up as collateral so why should you. As I fear you will be risking a lot more.

If you find yourself paying his mortgage or can't afford to and he loses the house and you end up with the debt I can't see you marriage surviving that, unless your are a saint you will be as bitter as hell.

I'd only do it for my kids tbh.

So none of his direct family are prepared to do it/change their plans to accommodate it so you have to do it?

They are all cuckoo if they really think it is your responsibility.

Run.

What they "all" said - nope, unless you'd be happy to lose your collateral

I like the idea of the parents offering to put up their house as collateral (assuming they own it) and maybe you (and your wife) offering a "guaranteed" £X per month for at least Y months if he gets into difficulties.

What does your BiL do?

And legally where would you stand if you divorced? Would you still be liable?

Never lend money you can't afford to lose.

Nope, not a good idea. Unless you have surplus cash / savings which you have just lying around (dont we all?) and can afford to pay off the BiL's mortgage if he defaults, without impacting on your own life in any way, then go for it.
Don't be brow beaten into it by family pressure.

"They are all cuckoo if they really think it is your responsibility".

"Run."

I have this thought every day. Not about my wife, just her family but she loves them so much that they do have far to much influence on our life and happiness. She's a kindhearted person who just wants the best for her brother but I'm afraid it's not going to happen.

My view is that he should look for something that he can afford or wait until he can afford the one he wants.

You'd be aff yer nut to do this.

1) He wants to buy something but he can't afford it.

2) the bank doesn't think he can afford it either so want some security

3) His parents don't think he can afford it or they'd offer their house as security.

No. I was out at strike 1 to be honest.

Being kind and potentially risking your financial future are two different things. Your view is right - stick to your guns.

If your BiL would probably never ask you then speak to him about this little scheme cooked up by the women folk and get his take on it and voice your concerns about your wife giving up work and the lack of security in your role.

I'd even tell him that you're not comfortable with the idea in your heart of hearts.

The plan of course is to get him to reject the idea before you have to say no. That you're not on the hook and he takes the 'blame' for shooting the idea down, maybe...

Without reading any of the above... no effing way... ever... no matter what...

if he defaulted and you had to step in, would you gain control of the asset? I would bet not unless you wrote a legally binding contract between you and the BiL (and I bet the BiL/MiL wouldn't like the idea of this either)

you taking the risk on his behalf with nothing to gain? this wouldn't be the last pitch in the episode of Dragons den where they say yes

'I'm out'

I'd say no.
If he defaults, it could destroy you financially, and your relationship could go the same way.

if he defaulted and you had to step in, would you gain control of the asset? I would bet not unless you wrote a legally binding contract between you and the BiL (and I bet the BiL/MiL wouldn't like the idea of this either)

or worse BIL's wife has interest declared in house, they separate, he stops paying and you end up paying for the house, but it can't be sold as SIL has a legal claim on their shared asset. She is bitter over her ex and takes it out on you by not playing ball etc etc

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I'm not going mad and that the overwhelming majority think that it's a bad idea too. Is there a chance that I might not be a selfish, miserable cold hearted git after all? . . . . Nah!

Insanity to even consider it.

If your wife moans, leave her. It sounds like you have a dogs life anyway, no offence.

How you say no is how you'll be treated in the future. I say go for a bloody firm no with a reason why. If you mumble/fumble you'll be victimised and talked about like an idiot who doesn't do as hes told.

I refused to lend a mutual friend £15k (to help out with unpaid debts). The chap who asked me, my best friend of 20 years, has never spoken to me since I said no and according to his wife will not acknowledge my existence. So you can't win in some situations....

footflaps then this chap has shown you his true colours. Would your best friend have give you any losses?

No, never mix money with friends or family, unless you can afford to lose one of them.

**** no, and lay off the drugs.

How about saying something like 'look, I can't possibly guarantee your mortgage as I am really not comfortable having such a long term responsibility for your debt but when you do manage to find a house that you can afford, I would love to help where I can with DIY and decorating to get it perfect for you.'

Hopefully he has got the message

Just make it really clear why you cannot take the financial risk and that it is in no way personal.

[quote=whereisthurso ]Is there a chance that I might not be a selfish, miserable cold hearted git after all? . . . . Nah!

No, it's just that we're all selfish miserable cold hearted gits too.

If your wife pressures you into saying yes it will be the second worse decision you've made in your life.

She wants you to support her to retrain
She and her brother want you to bail him out if things go wrong for him
The parents gave up jobs because they didn't like them

I think it's great if you can earn enough to support your wife to retrain but you need to remind her you married her not the rest of her family who seem to need a dose of reality.

If you know him well, love him like a brother and can afford to take on his mortgage, it might be worth considering. Based on what you have written, run away screaming.

Short term bail out to help out - yes I probably would.
25 year commitment - no - too much can change.

Without getting into your personal situation I don't think I could easily tolerate the idea that your wife's going to give you a hard time over this if the answer's no.

scaled probably has the best idea to finesse yourself out of the line of fire, but you're only waiting for the next family drama to invent itself. Like the MiL coming to live in... 🙁

would love to help where I can with DIY and decorating to get it perfect for you.'

this, but to make it easier for you - offer some design services instead for when an affordable house turns up. Planning app for an extension, that sort of thing. This will add value, so you are helping, but at no risk to you.

Reading through some of the OPs additional comments it does sound like a bad idea (my circumstances above were obviously different). Surely if your wife is that keen can't she continue to work to fund it?

OP can you sub me some money for some new forks?

A friend of mine helped his sister. (His name may have been on her mortgage, i don't remmember). No problems with payments etc. But he had a problem when he tried to move house and getting a new mortgage. His sister took a good number of years to get a well paid enough job to take over the full legal responsibilty for the mortgage by herself.

As above in the event of a split with your wife? That would leave you in a tough position.

It takes quite a long time to train and get established as a teacher. Couple of years at least.

Would I do it for a relative other than my parents or my children, absolutely no.

If you can afford to buy the property in your name and rent it to him at a non-profit making amount, then sure. You only risk having to evict him. Otherwise, no.

No, simple reason is I would not want to/be able to afford to cover it if it went wrong for him.

Secondly, he cant afford it. As you say, he had the deposit gifted and it is more than the bank are willing to lend (therefore he cant afford it)

Notwithstanding the financial risks, you should refuse to be emotionally blackmailed.

[not suggesting your wife is a terrorist but] Couldn't help but think of Martin McGuiness's recent comments when I read this thread! [/not suggesting your wife is a terrorist]

Hang on, if you are asked to be guarantor it can be for the LIFE of the mortgage? What the ****. So you could in theory be trapped by it if the mortgagee decided to change jobs alot/couldn't hold a job down/decided to pack off and go travelling?

How come we were never asked for a Guarantor for our first house? Ah, thats because we wanted a house well within the maximum that the bank said we could borrow to.

Not the same situation, but my tale of lending money:

Been supporting a mate who was struggling to make ends meet for several years. The understanding being that when I need the money, he'll do whatever is necessary to pay it back pretty much immediately. The assumption being that his dad would bail him out. Now I'm buying my first property and he has £14k of mine, apparently his dad isn't in any state to help him out. No idea when I'll ever see any of my money again. Due to this making my deposit a bit smaller, my mortgage is larger and the lending rate is probably a fraction higher too.

Would I get into the same situation again? Probably not 🙄

Cheers, Rich