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@Kryton57
Source please for the following:
The current prediction is a world war will occur within 5-8 years
This country doesn’t need massive standing armed forces, despite what vested interests may say.
We've never had a massive standing army, ever. Our armed forces has also never been smaller than now, is that safe?
I heard most people conscripted will actually end up in mid level IT or project management. There’s quite a lot of admin involved in waging war. Hopefully any future war ends up being a war of offensive memes rather than the old style physical effort.
"Considering that thanks to the amount of screws and plates in my ankle my max land speed is ‘turbo waddle’ I’d be utterly useless in this situation. That said, as mentioned above, if me going meant my son wouldn’t called up, I’d be there."
I'd be right behind you. You'd make a cracking shield.
Having met people who went to war in Bosnia and people who have fled Ukraine, I'd be on a flight to the in-laws in Australia long before conscription becomes a thing.
I’d be right behind you.
Officer #1: [repeating through megaphone] The one with the rifle shoots!
Officer #2: [handing out rifles] One out of two gets rifle.
Officer #1: The one without, follows him! When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots!
Can you imagine STW forumites forming a Dads Army platoon or such?
Especially if the bike companies got allowed to supply the gear.
30 rifles with 40 different standards.
"help who has a quick release magazine? I have some boost ones to swap?"
Would you fight for this country if conscripted?
If it meant that I could choose a Barret M82 and line up the entire ERG and associated hangers on then yeah, otherwise **** off
I was going to start a similar thread titled “are you a coward” as I’m pretty sure I am, and the start of the war had me giving serious though how to ensure my son could dodge conscription, probably involve using life savings to go far away and wait it out.
Your son just needs a rich or influential dad...
Donald Trump Avoided the Military Draft 5 Times, Which Was Common (businessinsider.com)
Surely the real question is why has the head of the army let his service get into the mess it’s in that he even wants to make this statement. Presumably he thinks it will force the government to give him more money to recruit, assuming people are willing to sign up still. If he is down to this level then perhaps he should consider his position and his ability to do his job.
If conscription did happen, then I expect that all M.P.'s of every party will sign up all their sons & daughters of fighting age to lead by example....
Oh...
Never understood why we stopped National Service – seems to work well in other Countries – would give certain sections of society a kick up the arse & a wake up call and also keep our defence forces topped-up if needed
I moved to Spain just as conscription was coming to an end - a lot of my colleagues had been through it. And they all said, without exception, that it was a complete and utter waste of time. They didn't want to be there, the army didn't want them there, and everyone was happy when it was dumped.
Warfare has changed a lot since the last world war. Chuck me an XBOX controller and I’ll drone strike the shit out of ‘insert enemy name here’s’ military equipment or whatever. Give me points or achievements for it, even better! You’ve exploded 7/26 supply trucks. Gotta get teh achievements!
I got kicked out of the army cadets as a kid and had the words “I don’t think the army is for you son” yelled at me by a recruitment bloke when I was younger. Don’t think I’d be a good conscript tbh.
I’d fight for my family, friends and oppressed. Never for a country. The fact we have that sort of thinking is half the reason these things start in the first place. Exceptionalism and flag waving bollocks, defending our proud nation blah blah blah
Gary_CFull Member<br />If conscription did happen, then I expect that all M.P.’s of every party will sign up all their sons & daughters of fighting age to lead by example….
Oh…
They'd go in the commissioned route I imagine, us plebs are the fodder - same as its always been.
If conscription did happen, then I expect that all M.P.’s of every party will sign up all their sons & daughters of fighting age to lead by example….
Surely the real question is why has the head of the army let his service get into the mess it’s in that he even wants to make this statement. Presumably he thinks it will force the government to give him more money to recruit, assuming people are willing to sign up still. If he is down to this level then perhaps he should consider his position and his ability to do his job.
This hasn't just happened. He's been in post for a couple of years. It's taken decades of defence cuts by politicians of all hues, not soldiers to get where we are are. In a democracy, defence budgets, manpower and priorities are set by the government of the day. Soldiers, even at the highest rank, just get to implement government policy. Blame the politicians, not the military.
Sorted...
or...
26" Platoon
If he is down to this level then perhaps he should make public comments that make the government, possible recruits and voters consider
hisour position andhisthe government’s and our military as a whole’s ability to dohistheir job.
As an aging engineer in transportation... I'll get the trains and boats ready the ship all the ebikers and Brexit-****ers to the front lines
Suddenly the master plan is clear...
Non-Doms like Sunak’s wife?
She's a Sub?
Re the comments of 'boot's on the ground is a smokescreen' et al. One of the fundamentals in warfare is controlling and holding ground, that will always require boots on the ground until we automate our ground forces. <br /><br />Since the inception of armed struggle between two or more sides, clueless observers have often commented 'warfare is changing', at its most basic and fundamental level it is yet to change.
Perhaps "evolving" is a better term.
You might well still need ground forces, but there's a whole other battle going on which doesn't involve meat shields.
Never understood why we stopped National Service – seems to work well in other Countries – would give certain sections of society a kick up the arse & a wake up call and also keep our defence forces topped-up if needed – especially if as it looks the next War (which hopefully won’t happen) will be fought on many fronts against many enemies.
I'd rather carry out my job alongside a volunteer than a pressed man. In modern times, although not a conscription the surge in Iraq for US forces required the entry standards to be dropped and many individuals given waivers to enter service, unsurprising that there was then an uptick in combat deaths and injuries and breaches of LOAC, geneva conventions and service rules.
I think this is CGS making an astute political point to his masters about resourcing and blunting the fangs of your guard dog.
It depends...
Fight just because some jumped up t*t of a politician tells me to. Get ***ed.
Fight because I believed it was morally correct to do so - probably (obvious parallel is if I was Ukrainian). To defend this country - the land itself - from destruction, yes. (the majority of the institutions and a lot of the people could go hang, but again - depends what the alternative is by not doing so).
I suspect I could kill people from a distance readily enough (eg fire a missile at a ship resulting in the deaths of sailors I couldn't see happen). Whether I could manage the long term effects of that is another matter.
Kill another human in cold blood eg shoot or stab them - I very much doubt it.
Kill someone in hand to hand combat. Not sure. I suspect it depends whether they have a stronger survival instinct than I do.
As others have mentioned above - there's very few people in an army who "fight". There's a vast logistics and management staff behind them and that's largely where middle aged keyboard warriors would do their bit.
Put some big guns on our bikes
Count me in:
Exceptionalism and flag waving bollocks, defending our proud nation blah blah blah
I shudder when I read or hear that bollocks, I can categorically tell you now, I didn't give a **** about any of that or you when I was deployed, my immediate thoughts and priorities in layman terms were:
1. Not ****ing up.
2. Not getting dead.
2. Not getting my mates/partner forces/allies dead.
3. Not getting non-combatants dead.
There endeth the list. Anyone that waffles some shit about Queen/King and Country is overcompensating.
Yes.
Should have read his speach, shouldn’t we… nothing about conscription, more a third tier of reservists… offered training and being asked to be available when needed… a citizens army not being trained from scratch should the need come. Nothing about it being anything other than voluntary. Doesn’t sound a daft idea, although increasing the standing army and reserves makes more sense… I’m sure he knows that and would welcome it… but this gets people talking.
Problem with the reserve is the current model doesn't work particularly well. To have a well trained and (almost) deployable force would require quite a bit of work, resourcing and investment as well as some fundamental legislative changes to protect employees and guarantee ROI for the taxpayer.
There's more, but it's a can of worms and I'm not sure I cba to open it.
Might consider it if we were fighting fascism or apartheid, problem is the UK government would likely be in support of it. So no from me and I think with my views I'd be SNLR or glasshouse pretty quickly anyway.
Re the comments of ‘boot’s on the ground is a smokescreen’ et al. One of the fundamentals in warfare is controlling and holding ground, that will always require boots on the ground until we automate our ground forces. Since the inception of armed struggle between two or more sides, clueless observers have often commented ‘warfare is changing’, at its most basic and fundamental level it is yet to change
Serious question - Could you ever see a situation arising where we’d have a world war akin to the last two? I just can’t see it happening again for a few reasons. The whole nuclear thing springs to mind and then the fact that the world is so much more joined up than it was. Nobody would really stand to gain anything and have everything to lose.
Could you ever see a situation arising where we’d have a world war akin to the last two?
Absolutely. We’ve developed a “it can’t happen in Europe” mentality… to the extent that we consider it impossible and so aren’t on guard to the possibility of sliding into conflict.
And by “we”, I’m not aiming at politicians, our civil service, or our military. By “we” I mean we the voters, across all countries.
I’d have all three of them on my what if card before huge land war tbh. The nuclear deterrent is huge. Main reason the Ukraine situation is where it is at surely?
War is stupid.
That said, most of the comments on here are based on the presumption that the Russians (or whoever) haven't made it onto UK soil. If their tanks were a mile away from your home, bombs were being dropped all around you, and your friends and family were dying in front of your eyes then yes I'd fight. And why not, you can't worry about what's on Netflix or the cost of charging your e-bike during the day.
Mostly, you can't trust your enemy to play by the rules..... This is being played out in front of our eyes right now in Ukraine and Palestine (by both sides of those conflicts).
Standing with a White flag or clapping invaders and welcoming them to take over because we despise the Tories won't wash I'm afraid. I don't think the threat of emailing the Guardian if they shoot civilians will cut it.
Serious question – Could you ever see a situation arising where we’d have a world war akin to the last two? I just can’t see it happening again for a few reasons.
Never know, but whatever the conflict there is always an element of controlling the terrain, either holding or denying it to create a strategic advantage, you need people to do that unless Skynet goes live and everything is automated.
I'd happily put myself forward for designing propaganda leaflets but **** fighting... I've trained myself to not instinctively kill mosquitos ffs (but I'm about to tuck into two chicken kievs).
This conversation is most definitely amplifying my tinnitus and making my knees hurt thinking about tabbing with kit.
But I'd happily head up the training team to get the STW platoon of biffters through phase 1 training, would be the most fun in kit I reckon.
Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.
I've travelled the world so I know that what we have over other countries is wealth built on industrialization (and past colonisation) but nothing worth the blood of my children. That's not to say that it wouldn't be a just or necessary fight.
Tell all the people who believe what they read in the press
Tell all the folk who stare from behind suburban walls
The enemy is not some nation far across the sea
The enemy is with us every single breathing day
So yes, I will fight for my country
Don't often see New Model Army lyrics quoted on here 🙂
I mean really? It's laughable to think anyone with half a brain would fight for these c****!
And another...
The natives are restless tonight, sir
Cooped up on estates with no hope in sight
They need some kind of distraction
We can give them that
'Cause they'd kill if they only had something to kill for
They'd die if they only had something to die for
They'd cheer if they only had something to cheer for
We can give them that
So it's off to war we go (I couldn't believe it)
Bring out all the flags (I never believed it)
Fight the good fight
It's working like a dream, sir
Half the nation are hooked on the bait
Waiting for the next victorious instalment
We can give them that
'Cause it's no surprise that young men are heroes
It's no surprise that young men are strong
It's no surprise that young men are foolish
We've known that all along
Exciting pictures on News at Ten (I couldn't believe it)
Read all the crap on all the front pages (I never believed it)
Fight the good fight
Ch: Dead men in the South Atlantic
It's meant to warm our hearts
They think that they died for you and me
Oh God, what a farce, what a farce
And now it's the repeats
Plugging the Falklands and the Falklands' spirit
Show the pictures again and again
Till the next war comes around
'Cause we'll kill if we only have something to kill for
We'll die if we only have something to die for
We'll cheer if we only have something to cheer for
That is worthy of the name
Oh yes the next war (I never believed it)
See the propaganda in TV fiction (I never believed it)
Enemies with horns and tails
Ch: There are dead men in the South Atlantic
It's meant to warm our hearts
They think that they died for you and me
Oh God, what a farce, what a farce
There's crippled men back home in England
Doesn't it warm your hearts
They think they fought for peace and freedom
Poor boys, what a farce, what a farce
Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.
I was born here by accident. Does that oblige me to fight and kill other working people from somewhere else so our masters can keep their power and riches? They can f*** right off.
But I’d happily head up the training team to get the STW platoon of biffters through phase 1 training, would be the most fun in kit I reckon
Reporting for duty with my fablon biff chit. Oldie but goodie
Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.
And what are those responsibilities? Where are they written down and where is my signature block on the document agreeing to them?
Reporting for duty with my fablon biff chit. Oldie but goodie
I've got you the CQMS job reserved mate. 😉😂
But I’d happily head up the training team to get the STW platoon of biffters through phase 1 training, would be the most fun in kit I reckon.
🙂
If conscription was attempted I would feel obligated to fight to save my country.
No ..... two generations of my family fought at the pointy end in 2 World Wars out of 11 Grandads and Uncles 1 dead, 3 wounded (badly) cousin served in the Falklands.
In WW1 my Great great Uncle was killed in 1918 his sister got the equivalent of £2000 including backpay.
They can **** off
it would be the best ever reality TV show.
There'd be tears, tantrums and hilarity, at least three people would shit themselves and one go AWOL.
Paying (sufficient) tax so the country can afford to pay for proper armed forces?
So there's loads of people in this thread not paying tax?
Oh and by the way Territorials or what ever thay are called always get battered, read your history
I seem to remember from the recruiters at my university officer training corps that they mostly send you on ski trips? Is that still policy?
Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.
Mark… is that you…?
Oh and by the way Territorials or what ever thay are called always get battered, read your history
The Army reserve haven't been mobilised en masse since WW2, prior to that many regiments of the British Army were yeomanries raised by the landed gentry made up of volunteers and pressed men in their ward as the 'professional' army was still quite small.
In war everyone gets battered, only ****ing planks turn it into a competitive league table.
Going by recent events in Ukraine and Palestine you'd stand a very good chance of being blown up by your own side.
I seem to remember from the recruiters at my university officer training corps that they mostly send you on ski trips? Is that still policy?
Looking at my social media feed this month, that seems to be the case.
Navy here and Kelvin has it spot on ref conscription, keeps the Daily Mail happy, just a drain on resources otherwise.
Hate to break it to those breathing a sigh of relief in their fifties. Fifty two here, recently extended to sixty and just as liable for sea duty as anyone else.
Yes - if they want an obley old git from their 7th decade.
But careful what they wish for - the enemy is far far closer to home.
Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.
I remember having a lot more rights and privileges once.
Hate to break it to those breathing a sigh of relief in their fifties. Fifty two here, recently extended to sixty and just as liable for sea duty as anyone else.
Eff that, bobbin around the oggin is not for me.
and one go AWOL
Reporting for duty Sir!
It's an interesting topic.
I was voluntarily involved in my yoof. "For my country" takes a bit of unpacking - there's a hell of a difference between 'in the name of my country's government' and 'for my country to stop it being blown to bits'. With the benefit of hindsight I was involved in the former. That's no place for a conscript as history has proved many many times.
But in the case of the latter.....that's a lot more personal. It might well be the difference between life (actual life or life as we know it) for your family and loved ones. There have been a lot of inverse internet hardmen stating there's no way they would accept it and no one can tell me what to do. Put yourself in the position of a Ukrainian almost exactly 2 years ago with the Russians marching in and destroying your towns - the very situation the UK general was envisaging the need conscription. Would you still be having your hissy fit then? Would you have needed persuading?
For clarity I would seriously struggle with the first scenario (and wouldn't ever put myself in that position again voluntarily) but would play my part in the defence of the nation (and by nation, I mean me, my family, your family and even you miserable sods).
Tbf it won’t happen for at least 5 years as its would be a massive vote loser for labour.* The tories however, with their geriatric supporter base whom most of which would probably struggle to wipe their own arses without home help, let alone go to war, would be bang up for it.
* tbf it won’t happen regardless
Should have read his speach, shouldn’t we… nothing about conscription, more a third tier of reservists… offered training and being asked to be available when needed… a citizens army not being trained from scratch should the need come. Nothing about it being anything other than voluntary.
Yes but that doesn't have the same ability to stir up forums as shouting "CONSCRIPTION".
More worrying was this comment "We will not be immune and as the pre-war generation we must similarly prepare...".
So we are the pre-war generation? War is coming?
The tories however, with their geriatric supporter base whom most of which would probably struggle to wipe their own arses without home help, let alone go to war, would be bang up for it.
I refuse to go and check it out in person but I bet the Daily Mail comments page is fwapping itself silly at the mention of conscription. It's a red rag to a bull - all it needs is some anti-cyclist rhetoric in there and it'd be a full house on the Daily Mail Bingo Card.
And they'd be the same people who get in the SUV to drive to the shops cos they can't possibly walk half a mile while carrying a loaf of bread. They can fondly imagine themselves sprinting across the battlefields like something out of a Marvel film but put them near enemy fire and they'd be the first people crying in a ditch.
They can fondly imagine themselves sprinting across the battlefields like something out of a Marvel film but put them near enemy fire and they’d be the first people crying in a ditch.
Only because they're unaware of the 'I'm up, he sees me, I'm down' mantra to fire and manoeuvre.
I’m reminded of the debate in the Oxford Union which passed the motion: "This House will under no circumstances fight for its King and country". 1933 I think it was.
I’m reminded of the debate in the Oxford Union which passed the motion: “This House will under no circumstances fight for its King and country”. 1933 I think it was.
The Oxford Union motion was proposed by Kenelm Hubert Digby of St John's College, Digby addressed the packed chamber: "It is no mere coincidence that the only country fighting for the cause of peace, Soviet Russia, is the country that has rid itself of the war-mongering clique.
Awks.
Still going i see, this is basically just the outgoing CGS making a statement that's saying spend more on the MoD to stop it shrinking, as before, there is no chance of 'conscription', we aren't going to be fighting in Europe, in this day and age i can't see Russia ploughing through Europe to make it viable, and we don't really have enough equipment to require more than the current armed forces, reservists and so on to operate and maintain.
I'm inclined to agree with Convert. I've always been a hippy peacenik type, so my first reaction is along the lines of this:
I was born here by accident. Does that oblige me to fight and kill other working people from somewhere else so our masters can keep their power and riches? They can f*** right off
But... What is the alternative case here? In ww2 the very vivid threat was of being invaded and ruled by one of the worst regimes in history. Right now, Putin is menacing Europe, a far right dictator with no regard for human rights or democracy.
If they were at the gates?
I wouldn't fight to protect the Tories, but would I fight to protect my Jewish in-laws or my immigrant mum? I probably would. Sunak can get ****ed but I still don't want to live in a country where you can get life in a Siberian jail for criticising a politician.
If the time comes I just hope this man has my back... and my sides and my head.
https://youtube.com/shorts/PXpslj9kyX4?si=FbvPjNEhcVLlLhi9
This comment on Reddit got me laughing:
If there is a conscription Capita will be hired and it'll take a year to process the conscripts and by the time that's done the war will be over.
Then every conscript gets a medal for being signed up even though they didn't go.
Everyone wins.
^^ That's just ridiculous. They would hire G4S.😉
Only because they’re unaware of the ‘I’m up, he sees me, I’m down’ mantra to fire and manoeuvre.
Hang on, are you saying that the response from every hero in every action film (running, ducking a bit and firing from the hip while enemy rounds explode all around you, miraculously missing any vital organs) is not the correct way?
**** that, I'm out.
😉