Would you fight for this country if conscripted?

If they start calling up the over 60s we've lost.

So that's a no from me.

If it gets that bad I'm buggering off to my sisters house in the Pyrenees. Hopefully they wouldn;t want me anyway as I'm 47. My son is 15 so hopefully he's ok for a while too.

unless me or my loved ones were under threat

Which, if we went to war with Russia, they probably would be.

I have pondered this one in the past in a WW2 context.  the answer would be no but I would volunteer as a nurse.  too old now tho 🙂

I mean, I'm too old anyway, but if I wasn't then this is one of those questions that you can't possibly answer truthfully until you're actually in the position. It's a bit like when it gets down to the actual fighting; regardless of what you might think now, you don't know if you'd be the one running through walls of fire to save a mate or being a quivering mess hiding behind a wall until the bullets start flying.

Which, if we went to war with Russia, they probably would be.

im not convinced. Russia may have eyes in its neighbours, but it won’t be knocking at our borders any time soon. By the time russia was anywhere near threatening our nation, The world would be a nuclear wasteland and me and my rifle isn’t going to contribute much at all

in the context of ww2, yes I’d probably have fought because of the circumstances. But ww1, no chance (although I doubt I’d have got much of a choice in the matter)

Why would I fight for a country that will leave me to shiver and starve without housing during peacetime while companies boast about record profits?

If they start calling up the over 60s we’ve lost.

That'll just be for the Home Guard Mr Mainwaring Sir.....

Tough question - depends I suppose on the level of threat to the UK etc.

Never understood why we stopped National Service - seems to work well in other Countries - would give certain sections of society a kick up the arse & a wake up call and also keep our defence forces topped-up if needed - especially if as it looks the next War (which hopefully won't happen) will be fought on many fronts against many enemies.

If conscripted, would you actually have a choice?

You could become a conscientious objector, a là Godfey and be a medic, assuming you have suitable training in the first place, or join the emergency services back home and be an ARP a là Hodges. If you are in a protected profession you wouldn't get conscripted in the first place. I don't think IT middle manager will be protected...

As long as we were being invaded yes.
If it is tory willy waving for oil, no.
I do see young men driving around with Ukranian number plates and wonder how they justify to themselves not defending their home.

Only as a mercenary - for Ireland I'd be a volunteer. Too old now though.

I don’t think IT middle manager will be protected…

Hey, I was a Key Worker during the pandemic 🙂

Why would I fight for a country that will leave me to shiver and starve without housing during peacetime while companies boast about record profits?

tbf my thoughts exactly. History is full of wars fought by commoners for the benefit of the rich and powerful

Hey, I was a Key Worker during the pandemic 🙂

Keyboard warrior is not the same as key worker  😉

No chance - the only difference between Putin and the Tories is he's much better organised, I'm not getting conscripted into any forces organised by these weasels.

Tell all the people who believe what they read in the press

Tell all the folk who stare from behind suburban walls

The enemy is not some nation far across the sea

The enemy is with us every single breathing day

So yes, I will fight for my country

The land that I love so well

Yes, for justice, a land fit for all our futures

Yes, I will fight for my country, the land that I love so well

Hear the voices of our history echo all around

Fight all the ones who divide us rich against poor

Fight all the ones who divide us white against black

Fight all the ones who want their missiles in our earth

Fight all the powers who would lead us into war

No rights were ever given to us by the grace of God

No rights were ever given by some United Nations clause

No rights were ever given by some nice guy at the top

Our rights they were bought by all the blood and all the tears of all our Grandmothers, grandfathers before

For all the folk who gave their lives for us

For all the folk who spit out, never say die

For all the fires burning on our highest hills

For all the people spinning tales tonight

Fight all the powers who would abuse our Common Laws

Fight all the powers who think they only owe themselves

would give certain sections of society a kick up the arse & a wake up call and also keep our defence forces topped-up if needed

You can keep your kick and your wake up call, and stick them both up your own arse.

I'm from a military family. Keep it professional. If you want more people to take up the profession, make it worth their while. Pressing people into service, even if just training, should be an absolute last resort... not something done to make other people feel an odd warm self congratulatory feeling about forcing others to serve.

So, assuming we're at the point where we genuinely need conscription or national service, because an otherwise unbalanced war is heading our way with it being "every man/woman to their post"... then like everyone else I have no idea if or how I would "fight". As others have said, if you're pressed into it, you have no idea how you will actually respond. I'd imagine I would be scared. I'd hope I could do what was needed of me without losing my humanity. Who really knows though.

I'd volunteer if it meant my son was exempt.

Id fight for my right to PAAAAAARTAY

Never understood why we stopped National Service – seems to work well in other Countries – would give certain sections of society a kick up the arse & a wake up call and also keep our defence forces topped-up if needed

Go on then, you first.

I'd be absolutely no use whatsoever if conscripted. I'd spend my whole time scared and sad and without the conviction to pull a trigger at another human being. Which is what I suspect a lot of people conscripted in the world wars were.

If they ever get desperate enough to conscript fat old biffers like me then the war is already lost

would you serve?

at 55 I doubt it.

There are lots of non-combat roles that could be filled by old biffers.

at 55 I doubt it.

Home Guard for the likes of us. Wooden rifles at the ready! 🙂

It all depends to what affect ..  Being conscripted and dragged to a front line in Europe to bulster Nato powers  naa Im good thanks  and there are far more people out there younger and fitter than me.  Push come to shove and my home and family are at risk then I would like a 10.5 inch barrel on my Demarco please mr Quarter master !  At which point the UK (which in some respects is already lost ) will be in a right sorry state and I would be better off enjoying a long sleep anyway.

It does feel like the world is swinging up to throw an almight pitch very soon indeed.

I’d volunteer if it meant my sons, daughters and grandchildren were exempt.

Fixed it for me

If this happens then we need to be be some kind of MTB Special Forces? Put some big guns on our bikes (assuming you still have room on with your bars with all those gadgets)?

Can you imagine STW forumites forming a Dads Army platoon or such?

It'd be 5pm each day before we could even agree on who our actual enemy were for that particular day.😁

Add to of that, there would be huge amounts of meetings, arguments about if our dogs could come on manoeuvres, particularly trail dogs, or if the word "enemy" was far too decisive to actually use even at a time of war.

Then there would be the epic fallouts about how to light a fire or the best way to soften our artisan army boots up.

It'd make a great movie though.

Keyboard warrior is not the same as key worker

Some of us are able to multitask 🙂

I’d be absolutely no use whatsoever if conscripted. I’d spend my whole time scared and sad and without the conviction to pull a trigger at another human being. Which is what I suspect a lot of people conscripted in the world wars were.

I did a course on the psychology of warfare at medical school. I don't know why. But one thing that stuck out for me is that when new recruits got into battles, most of the ones who died did so without firing a shot.

I'd fight in defence of England or our really close allies e.g Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, and maybe even Wales & Scotland if push came to shove 😉 But otherwise it's a firm 'wibble' from me.

I have zero good will left for the ruling classes of this country, far as I'm concerned they should do a turn leading from the front this time round.

Home Guard for the likes of us. Wooden rifles at the ready! 🙂

They'll most likely need them for our frontline troops.

I'm sure the minute war is declared Michelle Mone will set up a brand new company to supply the Army with body armour made from shower curtains.

It’d be 5pm each day before we could even agree on who our actual enemy were for that particular day.😁

So that would a be 8 hours arguing then attacking whoever TJ declared was the enemy at 9am?

My son is 15 so hopefully he’s ok for a while too.<br /><br />

I think not.   The current prediction is a world war will occur within 5-8 years.  That means our kids will be the prime age in 3 years time as National Service is reinstated as a need for “preparation”.   This scares me shitless, I don’t want my kid going off to war.  

far as I’m concerned they should do a turn leading from the front this time round.

There would be a national grenade shortage from all the fragging incidents.

Why would I fight for a country that will leave me to shiver and starve without housing during peacetime while companies boast about record profits?

Well, that's a good point - but it's the government that did those things.  When you fight for your country you fight for the people in it, including those you love.

absolutely pointless question, we are part of NATO, any war with Russia would probably involve several countries before it reaches us, we have professional armed forces, last thing they want is conscripts, they may recall those required with previous experience in specific areas, but a load of randoms, doubt it!

Conscription could be a consequence of the UK’s Article 5 commitment e.g. if Russia invaded another NATO member like Poland.

The cut-off age is 55 for regulars, so they’d possibly drop that to 50 at most for conscripts. Given the sophistication of the current battlefield environment, it takes  2 years to train regular infantry, quite what utility a conscript with 12 weeks basic training would achieve, unless of course you just need something to feed the Russian meat-grinder?

The only likely scenario is the mobilisation of the Regular Reserve (ex-Services personnel) - it came close around 2007 with campaigns in Iran and Afghanistan.

As even Ukraine and Russia have found, conscription also results in a huge exodus of eligible men - I know 2 families locally who have fled Ukraine because of conscription.

Yes. but only if my job is flying an F35.

If they want me, they've already lost, so I might as well not bother and enjoy the time I have left before our new alien overlords arrive.

Depends on the alternative right?

If it was Go to war and maybe die or refuse and be executed on the spot, I'd grudgingly accept conscription, whereas if you just get imprisoned and/or called mean names by flag shaggers I could maybe deal with that...

I’d be absolutely no use whatsoever if conscripted. I’d spend my whole time scared and sad and without the conviction to pull a trigger at another human being. Which is what I suspect a lot of people conscripted in the world wars were.

Very much my thoughts^^ conscripts are not actual soldiers, not professionals, they haven't chosen to participate in a conflict, they've been made to, their motivations, mindset and capabilities won't match what's needed for the role.
I don't think you could rely on conscripts in the same way as a professional soldier. Hence it's outfits like the Russian Army that end up using conscription out of desperation, it's just bulking the numbers not the same as getting a strategic advantage.

Keyboard warrior is not the same as key worker

You say that but,

I'd like to think that in a wartime situation I'd be of more use to the country by pushing buttons rather than pulling triggers. Times have changed, warfare has changed, boots on the ground is (excuse me) a smokescreen. The next big war will be fought electronically; arguably, it's already started.

Back during covid lockdown, our entire department was classified as key workers.

Considering that thanks to the amount of screws and plates in my ankle my max land speed is 'turbo waddle' I'd be utterly useless in this situation. That said, as mentioned above, if me going meant my son wouldn't called up, I'd be there.

In my youth I would have done in a genuine 'enemy at the gates' situation but not for stupid adventurism (i.e. Iraq 2003).

My father is a classic case as to why conscription may not be effective as a’kick up the arse’ as many people seem to think.

He was conscripted into the REME via National Service, was sent to Korea and after months getting to the front line  on a slow troop ship then a three day train/truck journey the first thing his new CO said to him was ‘I don’t want you, I want professionals’ and he and his fellow NS personnel were treated as second class people for the 14 months he was there. It has put him off all authority figures and particularly the military and passed that on to me.

It’s an interesting discussion. Do any of you think you would have been keen on an armistice with Germany after Dunkirk in the summer of 1940? Britain was on its own with only the commonwealth/empire for support. Russia had a peace pact with Germany and the USA was isolationist.

I reckon most folk here would have been keen on peace at that time. I probably would have been.

If the fight was growing food, making stuff in factories, making tea (we all know a good cup of tea is the answer to everything), or volunteering to look after people left behind, then yes. But I'm an injured 60 something and wouldn't be much use out in the fray. 

Would I want to fight for the country that is my home, and has given me a life greater than 99.9% of all humans in history, yes.

Would I be of any use in a field with a rifle, no.

I'd hope I would have more use than as cannon fodder, but I guess so do most people.

And I assume in the modern era, walking down to the air force recruiters the morning your army draft papers arrive is no longer going to work...

last thing they want is conscripts

except the statement was from the head of the uk armed forces..

i do agree it would be pointless however. In any war with Russia, ground troops would be absolute cannon fodder. Way I see it, based on current Russian military capability, if they took on nato with conventional weapons they’d be annihilated in weeks. So they’d either back off with their tail between their legs, of start firing off nukes

either way, I can’t see how having more ground troops would help..either we win using far superior military technology, or everyone dies in a nuclear fireball.

Does Russia have many 'professional' soldiers left ? NATO has many more trained soldiers, why would they want a Joe Bloggs to join in. 

Sure.

Not on the same side as the current government though. Conscription is perhaps the best chance at a revolution that we'll ever have.

So that would a be 8 hours arguing then attacking whoever TJ declared was the enemy at 9am?

Nope. We wouldn't attack till the next day in all likelihood as binners has gone to Greggs for "provisions", ours have gone to Aldi as there is a camping deal on, others have gone to 4 different pubs (they couldn't agree on a pub)... and the rest are debating a battle plan late into the night and what we are all having for breakfast.

The breakfast debate takes up most of the planning time.

What IHN said+1.
I was in the TA in the early 80s. I joined up for beer money. When the Falklands were invaded all sorts of ill-informed people started speculating wildly . I beagan to consider the possibilty that I might be called up and I would have gone.In the event there was no real likelihood of me being called up but it still made me think and I left the TA not long after.

Keyboard warrior is not the same as key worker

Some of us are able to multitask 🙂

Three Tabs open at once with an argument about Small boats/ULEZ/NHS funding going on each, while you shit post about Piers Morgan on 'X' with your phone? "you weren't there Man! You'll never understand..."

I think we all now recognise the thousand yard stare of those who've served in the trenches of the online culture war 🙂

Probably already been said by others but we'd all be vaporized by Mad Vlad before any of us set foot on the battlefield.

In the circumstance of this country being directly invaded in the way that Ukraine is, I wouldn’t need to be conscripted, I’d volunteer. I see it as no different than stopping someone breaking into your home, and there are many ways to contribute other than holding a gun.

except the statement was from the head of the uk armed forces.

Call me cynical, but I suspect there is a degree of Politics at play here. It's the kind of statement that is guaranteed to provoke this kind of conversation among the general populace and feed a headline or two.

Public awareness about what would actually be needed in terms actually fighting a real war is pretty low, and therefore raising defence spending as a voters priority is most likely the aim here.

Another oldie and not very goodie here....

But yes, if its required for the future of our (flawed) society and to protect my loved ones, I'd like to think I could overcome the mindnumbing horror/terror and try to do my bit. I'd sooner be dead in a ditch than live on my knees.

My kids are 17 and 20, so ripe for call up. Thats a far more worrying and contradictory mix of emotions.

Home Guard for the likes of us. Wooden rifles at the ready! 🙂

I know they seem like a joke now but they old guys in the home guard were the same guys who went from trench to trench, fighting hand to hand, clubs and bayonets* 25 years earlier.

They would also have been fighting to defend against a largely conscripted army. And after the first phase with very little equipment were very much armed with very real weapons. I believe wargaming suggests that the success a German invasion would have been questionable, with home turf and well organised plans in place.

* As an aside it's worth reading up on Arnold who played Godfrey he was injured numerous time in the trenches quite seriously, bayonet to the groin anyone?

My difficulty here is having three sons, aged 18, 21 and 22....

I do think if we are under thread there is a duty - and Russia is as big a threat as anyone faces. To surrender or bow to them would not create any security and safety, and in fact could be a fate worse than fighting directly.

I was going to start a similar thread titled "are you a coward" as I'm pretty sure I am, and the start of the war had me giving serious though how to ensure my son could dodge conscription, probably involve using life savings to go far away and wait it out. I'd certainly put myself forward if it would guarantee he didn't have to though.

I hope it's just posturing to say to the other side "we are serious about this" rather than a call to arms.

except the statement was from the head of the uk armed forces..

I think he is saying that to make a political point.  The professional forces have shrunk year on year for decades and are arguably too small to engage effectively in something we thought was consigned to history - a large scale war in Europe.  When I joined the army in 1980 it was configured to fight a Russia attack (as part of NATO) and was around 160,000 strong.  It's now 80,000 and only likely to keep shrinking.

National Service and conscription are something old duffers bleat on about, but that nobody in the forces really wants.  They would be a burden and a liability.  What we need is sufficient numbers of motivated professional soldiers, sailors and airmen.

I joined at 16 and finished my reserve liability at 55.  They've had their pound of flesh from me.  But if they were desperate and could supply enough Voltarol and Ibuprofen, I could be a mountain bike dispatch rider or something.

Probably more inclined to fight for this country in the form of a civil war than represent it fighting in foreign lands to protect the profitability of the establishment.

Fighting for someones elses land. **** that.

probably involve using life savings to go far away and wait it out.

I seem to recall that someone in the 1930s, seeing another looming world war, did some lengthy analysis about the anticipated conflicts and countries etc, and determined the safest most out of the way place to sit out the upcoming war if you had the requisit funds was a small island in the pacific named Iwo Jima.

I'd join up before I was conscripted, that way I at least get a choice about what I'm doing, Moot though, as I'm old and past it.

Britain was on its own with only the commonwealth/empire for support.

So not on its own then really, as the Commonwealth/Empire was a good portion of the rest of the world.

Media frenzy  for the new muppits in power Labour .. to influence a push to a bigger spending budget for the UK military .    . Angela Rayner giving the stink eye to any oversea aggressor would be far me use than me with a big sharp pointy stick.

At 68 I'm way too old and of no use to anyone apparently 🙄🙄🙄

To keep people like this in power... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Scott%2C_10th_Duke_of_Buccleuch
They we still be there after a war 🙁

What tyres for advancing on the enemy?

something we thought was consigned to history – a large scale war in Europe.  <br /><br />

The invasion of Ukraine has shown that this concept has been consigned to history. Putin has failed to win one war close to home, he won’t be marauding across Europe any time soon.

This country doesn’t need massive standing armed forces, despite what vested interests may say.

I do see young men driving around with Ukranian number plates and wonder how they justify to themselves not defending their home.

Many of those will be on leave from tank, infantry or artillery training in this country. The infantry are training in Thetford Forest close to Mundford. Many days there's rifle/small arms fire on the range and also house to house training in a nd around Bodney Camp. Larkhill will have the gunnery trainees and Bovington/Salisbury plain is training the tankies. Somewhere in the country there'll be fast jet training too.

At 68 I’m way too old and of no use to anyone apparently

Don't underestimate your use - someone has to clear the mines.

Never understood why we stopped National Service

Because wasting a year of everyone's life on stupid make-work, when we have a labour shortage already, is a completely idiotic affectation that only a terminally dim or paranoid country would think a sensible use of resources.

National Service and conscription are something old duffers bleat on about, but that nobody in the forces really wants.

It plays well to the Daily Wail brigade who love the thought of a bit of discipline for the Yoof of Today but who would shit their pants the second the conscription officer came knocking on their door.

Me, I'd be putting a pair of underpants on my head, two pencils up my nose and saying "wibble".

Fighting for someones elses land. **** that.

Someone else’s land? You’d wait till someone got to your front door then?

Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.

In the circumstance of this country being directly invaded in the way that Ukraine is, I wouldn’t need to be conscripted, I’d volunteer. 

This seems massively unlikely - unless you really think the Scots are going to get all uppity and Jacobite again.

Seems like there’s an awful lot of people in this thread who like the rights and privileges of living in this country but want no responsibilities to go with them.

Yes thanks, sign me up. 

Never understood why we stopped National Service – seems to work well in other Countries – would give certain sections of society a kick up the arse & a wake up call and also keep our defence forces topped-up if needed – especially if as it looks the next War (which hopefully won’t happen) will be fought on many fronts against many enemies.

You've never spoken to anyone conscripted post-WW2 I'd guess.

My Dad described it as an utter waste of his time, his pals time and the country's time.

IMO anyone who believes it would "give certain sections of society a kick up the arse" is probably someone who's slacked off in the past and really means it could've sorted them out when they were younger.