You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Until recently I would have done. I couldn't care less if the Chinese government want to spy on me. They will get very bored of my messages very quickly. Today's news though is a game changer. No way would I buy and Android phone that was not supported by Google.
The current position must be pretty terminal for Huawei, or have I misread the situation?
What do you think?
Link to news article would be good ..😁
This move smacks more of protectionism of Apple products and an attempt to thwart them being overtaken by huawei than a stance on protecting your data.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. One news report I saw was suggesting that China could make things very difficult for Apple whose IPhones are made in China.
This move smacks more of protectionism of Apple products and an attempt to thwart them being overtaken by huawei than a stance on protecting your data.
I don't think it is protectionism of apple specifically, I doubt trumps team even considered the smart phone market this is just collateral damage, but I do think it is about trade war.
Apple is one of the few companies that have stood up to successive US governments demands for their own backdoor access to to user data.
Aren't Foxconn shifting production to India as china is too expensive.
Link to news article would be good ..😁
For those who live in a news bubble (or use a Huawei phone where google search doesn't work)...
Biggest News Story in every publication and news website today
I think we can look forward to a lot more of this type of nonsense now Trump has clearly embarked on a full scale trade war.
They were saying on Radio 4 this morning that it was likely to be totally counter-productive (gee...who'd have thunk it?)
(gee…who’d have thunk it?)
Trump will have planned for this though, he is after all a very stable genius.
(or use a Huawei phone where google search doesn’t work)…
Google doesn't work in China anyway - a bit disconcerting when you head out of your hotel for a wander round and then realise you can't navigate back using Google Maps 🙁
Today’s news though is a game changer.
Is it though? From what I heard on the BBC it was a big non-story. Probably fed to the BBC by Apple or other Huawei competitors.
[i]
New designs of Huawei smartphones [b]are set to[/b] lose access
But when Google launches the next version of Android later this year, it [b]may not[/b] be available on Huawei devices.
Future Huawei devices [b]may[/b] no longer have ...
Huawei said it would continue to provide security updates and after sales services to all existing Huawei
Existing Huawei smartphone users will be able to update apps and push through security fixes[/i] - (this includes phones already on the market)
I had a Hwuawei phone a while back, it was very cheap because I needed one quick. It had a fair bit of bloatware on it and the updates were slow to receive, nothing wrong with the hw itself.
I replaced it with a nokia, which I prefer because it's a completely vanilla android release.
The trade war that Don is starting is just daft but what do you expect, this is Don we're talking about. But because of google's decision I probably would avoid a hwuawei handset because getting updates without delay is the best way of securing (also get a password manager and don't just give out your details without being smart about it).
FWIW I don't think Hwuawei are mass snooping in real-time, the hwuawei oversight people are more concerned with the general code quality they produce which could be spiked by other miscreants, and china's general policy of 'hand it over'. link if you want the full geek
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/blog-post-security-complexity-and-huawei-protecting-uks-telecoms-networks
If the Chinese government can force companies in their country to do their bidding then probably every household appliance/computer/phone we use already has spyware installed.
This move smacks more of protectionism of Apple products
Its more Cisco and the other infrastructure companies and the fight for 5g patents.
I doubt trumps team even considered the smart phone market
I'd love to see a (judiciously pared down to only the interesting ones) list of trump towers' holdings. I'm not suggesting conspiracy here but I've little doubt they're very conscious of the share price of a company as big as apple, he's not exactly known for doing things which left him out of pocket is he
My prediction is that Huawei (or another Chinese company with investment by state) will create their own OS. China will then prohibit any phones not using their OS.
A billion potential phone and OS sales lost for US companies. Huawei could then sell outside of China with the new Chinese OS and knock out Google and Apple (or if not knock them out then make them second to the Chinese OS/phone)
Now seems like a good time to buy one if the prices drop.
My prediction is that Huawei (or another Chinese company with investment by state) will create their own OS.
That's what I thought when I heard it this morning - headhunt a bunch of Apple and Google techies.. might take a year, but sounds like they'll have at least that long to get on track.
It's all very predictable as it is a trade war. Sooner or later it will be related to all goods from China directly or indirectly and other services as well.
It is just a trade war no big deal as this is a normal behaviour in all industrial sectors but in this case country wise. i.e. competition.
The banning of Google to update Huawei is in fact a good thing.
Good move by Trump to create more competitors in the market. The more the West push the East the better the East will become. This means the East will now have to start to developing their own technology etc ... they will need to be more innovative to stand on their own from now on.
Hopefully this means the world will have more choices and alternative platforms to choose from.
As for spying etc ... all of them do it.
p/s: not buying it now as I got a Samsung but was thinking of Huawei as a second phone for future ... will wait and see now. Hopefully, in five years time they have even better platform.
My prediction is that Huawei (or another Chinese company with investment by state) will create their own OS
Thats not a prediction they already have done so as have various other companies to try and give themselves options (Samsung for example have their own OS) since tying themselves to Android always had risks.
No, but just because they're in bed with the Chinese Government.
I ****ing hate to say it, I hate Apple fanbois and all their utterly blind devotion to the brand, but in simple terms we've got a Cyber Security Consultant we work with, yeah I know the industry is full of Snake Oil Salesmen, but we've known and trusted this Guy for 15 years.
Part of what we do with via him is external and mobile device security, Android is a nightmare - effectively if you want staff to use Android safely you need to tie the thing down so it's near useless. Even something as innocent as having Facebook on a device that can access secure data is difficult to manage, but give users unlimited access to install anything from the various places you can get apps from? Not a chance.
The only requirement we have to use iPhones is that they have to be running current versions of iOS.
However, if it was only a personal phone, I wouldn't worry about Huawei too much, the Chinese government can read all the 'Mad Bantz' between me and my mates if they like, or see how many MTB vids I watch on YT.
Thats not a prediction
You seemed to have missed out the key second point "China will then prohibit any phones not using their OS." And also state funded which I am guessing the Samsung OS wasn't.
I bought one. The camera was rubbish, so I sent it back. Cool story bro, etc.
There is enough android base code out there to build a completely new OS to fork out (Samsung's phones are more of a layer of their own on top of the android base rather than a full new release) but the sticking point would be the apps.
If you bought a hwuawei phone tomorrow it'd probably be fine but logic says anything else Samsung, nokia, Motorola etc are all equally useable and don't carry the risk.
There's a handy "so what" guide here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48334739
My take on this is that it's less of a problem Right Now than it will be in a couple of years time, which gives Huawei time to get on the Giant Wotsit's "approved" list in the interim.
Worse case scenario, you'll lose GApps and security updates, and it'll take XDA-Devs half an hour to get round that (see also, Amazon Android devices).
Reckon I'm filing this under "meh" for now.
Pretty fascinating watching this play out. Lots going on with Government ties, fraud convictions, 5G contracts & investments and security concerns.
BTW Huawei have already said they have an OS ready to go, but I can't imagine it's tempting given the success of previous non-android/iOS operating systems.
Worse case scenario, you’ll lose GApps and security updates, and it’ll take XDA-Devs half an hour to get round that (see also, Amazon Android devices).
Reckon I’m filing this under “meh” for now.
But, would you buy a new Huawei now? It seems a risk not worth taking.
But, would you buy a new Huawei now? It seems a risk not worth taking.
There will definitely be very strong impact on the Huawei sales in the West.
In the short term Huawei will suffer a bit but in the long run, if they can innovate, then there will be a "new" player in town ...
It has come a long way since the early 2000's when their nickname was 'WhoAreWe' and they were engaged in collaboration projects with a certain US tech company who has now all but disappeared.
Obviously this is about trade and Don showing his voters how much of a man he is. Security of HW phones is not really the issue as all makes of phone are at risk from the crap people put on them. It's security of the network that is the issue when moving into a future where more and more stuff it reliant on it. In terms of a security/attack it is a case of probability of occurrence low, but impact potentially enormous, so concerns are understandable. However networks are more likely to be disrupted or insecure through genuine incompetence and/or software fault rather than malicious intent, so it is not really worth worrying about IMO.
I think Google are just implementing Trump's thing he signed. Trump tends to tweet first, then act (maybe) and finally think. Google are just taking him literally, as he has acted and signed this thing. Give it a few months and there'll be some sort of deal done.
Huawei are apparently the second biggest phone manufacturer. Number one isn't Apple but Samsung, so they're the biggest immediate beneficiary.
There was some interesting stuff on Radio 4 this morning. Huawei is owned by its employees (according to Huawei UK boss) but actually run by a "trades union" with a panel elected every five years who make the decisions. So pretty much the Chinese communist party.
GCHQ were said to be more worried about the slapdash quality of Huawei's software, particularly with regard to security, rather than back-door stuff.
https://www.softwaretestingnews.co.uk/21345-2-gchq-director-huaweis-engineering-very-shoddy/
You seemed to have missed out the key second point
Because it is irrelevant. They dont need to ban anything. Look at the bias in the market anyway. They might need to get the other companies to buy into it but thats about it. China has been very protectionist without quite needing to ban things for some time.
My prediction is that Huawei (or another Chinese company with investment by state) will create their own OS.
In China consumers don't care about the OS and only want the WeChat app, which covers everything they need. In international markets people want apps and services they already know like Outlook, Word, Gmail, Googlemaps etc.
With their own OS, they have nothing to offer consumers that they want without access to MS / Google Apps and services...
BTW Huawei have already said they have an OS ready to go, but I can’t imagine it’s tempting given the success of previous non-android/iOS operating systems.
Presumably if it had to run on the same hardware as android it could be made similar enough that it was a 5 minute job for developers to move apps to?
Unlike apple and Android (or Windows or blackberry) where apps often share nothing more than a similar user interface.
Because it is irrelevant. They dont need to ban anything. Look at the bias in the market anyway. They might need to get the other companies to buy into it but thats about it. China has been very protectionist without quite needing to ban things for some time.
Probably everyone will need a different mobile phone in future when they travel beyond Turkey to the East where the world is divided into two big sector East vs West .... 🤣
I have the P20 pro and not worried by the latest handbags spat. I'm sure it will sort itself out and if not then I will root the thing and stick another Rom on it at sometime.
Probably everyone will need a different mobile phone in future when they travel beyond Turkey to the East where the world is divided into two big sector East vs West …
In the old days you needed a different phone for North America as they had chosen two different standards, IS95 and IS136, rather than GSM. Eventually they realised that going it alone put them at a disadvantage and jumped on the 3GPP bandwagon...
Presumably if it had to run on the same hardware as android it could be made similar enough that it was a 5 minute job for developers to move apps to?
They won't have access to the Apps source code, nor the back end servers etc...
As for trusting Huawei,
First off, it's perhaps hard to appreciate in the West just how big Huawai is. They're the second largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world - ahead of Apple and behind Samsung. They're not some 2-bit knock-off merchants. If they were secretly sending photos of your dog back to China, they'd almost certainly have been caught by now.
Whilst there are certainly connections to the Chinese government (JHJ to the forum with a photo of Jimmy Savile and a Chinaman in the same room please), the US government launched an investigation into Huawei (and ZTE) a couple of years back and found... nothing. The US embargo on Huawei - and by extension today's developments also I expect - is essentially a backlash to Trump going "give us all your secrets" and Huawei telling them to jog on. They have a fear of Chinese tech companies based on, well, just that, fear. Probably with a side order of the Red Threat never really going away in many American minds.
To my mind there's two problems here. Firstly, any compromised software implanted at the behest of China's government - a backdoor for instance - could equally well be exploited against them. They surely know this. Secondly, it's elephants and turtles all the way down, Chinese-made components are in pretty much every piece of consumer electronics out there. If there is a security issue then it's potentially far, far wider reaching than simply Huawei phones. Personally I'm more worried about my lightbulbs.
But, would you buy a new Huawei now? It seems a risk not worth taking.
By the time it's a problem - assuming it is - the phone you buy today will be obsolete anyway. Outside of the fruit-based ecosystem I can't offhand think of any phone manufacturer who promises handset updates longer than two years after launch.
If they were secretly sending photos of your dog back to China, they’d almost certainly have been caught by now.
They can have me nakid photos if they want .... 🤣
Outside of the fruit-based ecosystem I can’t offhand think of any phone manufacturer who promises handset updates longer than two years after launch.
yep very impressed than my Jesus Phone 6s is still getting updates and still runs reasonably well afterwards...
A billion potential phone and OS sales lost for US companies
Not really. Apple is currently at 11% and falling by about 1% per quarter. The rest is predominantly Chinese brands anyway.
Production costs in China are increasing. Apple has already relocated some production, I think part of the reason for the dramatic cost change in the X is to prepare the market for US production with only a gentle increase in cost when it happens.
“Android” what we know as the operating system is open source. Huawei is allowed to continue using this. This is more accurately known as ASOP.
So Huawei is free to build phones using this, (like amazon does with its fire os) what it can’t do is call it android. Android is a brand name and you can only call your phone android if it is certified to use the play store and google apps (maps, assistant, gmail). It is the propriety google stuff they have been banned from using. They have had their certification removed for future devices.
For China this is not much of a problem, because google is restricted and everyone uses wechat to provide the services that the play store provides.
Elsewhere is the issue. Most apps created for “android” rely on google code for such things as push notifications, location services etc. So you cannot easily build another store and get developers to drop their apps into it.
This is what is going to be the hard thing for Huawei. Creating an operating system - easy just use asop. Creating an App Store - easy. Getting third parties to develop for it - very hard.
Also remember that this ban impacts all us companies. Intel will not be able to provide chips. Huawei builds its own mobile chips, but their Pc business might be screwed.
If anyone thinks that this move will suddenly yield a competitor to google and apple outside of China is deluded.
Most of what you one would identify as being core apps and OS functionality on a 'droid phone has long since been moved from the open source to the proprietary google libraries.
Getting third parties to develop for it – very hard.
depends, might be quite financially rewarding for a company to operate in a Google free zone
It'll be fine so long as you don't start sending pictures of Winnie the Poo.
Everyone is talking about Huawei, but have they forgotten Lenovo own Motorola Mobility(the smart phone part of the brand), and guess where they are head quartered.... China.
No one is concerned about buying a Motorola because theres a long history of the brand.
To answer the original question ..yes I would ..and if in some small way it helped to annoy good ol Donny boy ..fantastic ..job done
This is more accurately known as ASOP.
And even more accurately known as AOSP. (-:
They won’t have access to the Apps source code, nor the back end servers etc…
Other way around, app developers could easily swap the line of code that says "ask Google location services for location" with "ask huawei location services for location" etc.
The problem with new apps only being on Apple or Android because it takes as long to transfer it as it does to make it from scratch might not be there as android apps already have to run on a variety of hardware and variations of OS.
I **** hate to say it, I hate Apple fanbois and all their utterly blind devotion to the brand,
Surely that just as easily applies to people like you with your devotion to Android?
Everything I do at work relies on an app running on Samsung devices, phones or tablets. They’re utter crap. You never know from one day to the next whether the sodding things are going to work properly, they have a camera, but no flash to allow them to be used in the dark, which we have to do in winter, as we’re all outdoors, on some of them, when you take photos, and get to the end of a vehicle appraisal, when you complete it crashes the app, but only on some devices; they’ll suddenly lock up, or the screen starts jumping around.
I had to try four different tablets one morning, because each one failed in different ways, before I found one that would actually allow me to do my job! That was forty minutes after I was supposed to start work.
I’ve been using Apple stuff since the late 90’s, iphones since the 3G, and I’ve got an iPad 3 and 10.5” Pro; never, ever, have I had any serious issues: at work, I never know, from one minute to the next, whether I’m going to be able to do my job properly, the devices are essential to track the movements and location of approximately 3000 vehicles. I’ve been almost reduced to tears of anger and frustration due to these shitty Samsung/Android devices I’m given to use, that’s rarely happened with Apple devices.
Looks like I timed that perfectly getting my P20 pro 3 weeks ago on contract then......
It’s just a trade war. With a temporary license revoked and regranted so they can run software updates on the system. That says it all really. I don’t believe security is the issue here. After all, the most recent big thing was the WhatsApp spyware from that other enemy of the United States errrr....
Part of what we do with via him is external and mobile device security, Android is a nightmare – effectively if you want staff to use Android safely you need to tie the thing down so it’s near useless. Even something as innocent as having Facebook on a device that can access secure data is difficult to manage, but give users unlimited access to install anything from the various places you can get apps from? Not a chance.
Not strictly true, certainly iOS is easier to secure but we run Android phones to a certain level of classification (using Blackberry UEM to effectively partition it). Granted it's still not accredited to run at secret level but that's down to more then just the OS on the phone. We actually piloted iPhones for the project but although successful (in conjunction with AirWatch) it was cost-prohibitive to use them.
Personally I use an iPhone, I'm not a fanboi but I like that everything just works. I'd consider a Huawei phone for personal use as a budget phone but not if I was spending £500+ and intended to keep it for 2-3 years
Other way around, app developers could easily swap the line of code that says “ask Google location services for location” with “ask huawei location services for location” etc.
Most of the value in Google Maps is the TBs of data Google has accumulated as well as real time access to millions of handsets and their speed etc. Just look how much trouble Apple had starting from scratch with maps and it's still way behind Google. Likewise corporates will want access to Exchange / Google Docs depending on their preference, so no corporate handset sales. Ecosystem is everything.
Plus if you're an App developer, why bother with Huawei, the users will just migrate to Samsung etc, and you don't need to write a single extra line of code to support that...
This is more accurately known as ASOP
*AOSP
"Looks like I timed that perfectly getting my P20 pro 3 weeks ago on contract then……" As Cougar says there's nothing to worry about for the moment really. The OS on the phone will have the updates flowing so just make sure they keep being applied.
Surely that just as easily applies to people like you with your devotion to Android?
Everything I do at work relies on an app running on Samsung devices, phones or tablets. They’re utter crap.
Thing is, well, this is the Mac vs PC argument all over again. People spend four figures on a Mac, then say how so much better it is than a £300 PC. Of course it is, go throw two and a half grand at a Windows laptop and get back to me.
I don't know what models of Samsung devices you've got, but I'll bet you've not paid iMoney prices for them. They've made some right pups over the years and whilst I'm a "fan" of Android I wouldn't have a Samsung handset if you paid me.
and so the fall out begins....
and now ARM is pulling out...
https://interestingengineering.com/uk-semiconductor-company-arm-orders-halt-to-business-with-huawei
I don’t know what models of Samsung devices you’ve got, but I’ll bet you’ve not paid iMoney prices for them.
Samsung Galaxy Tab A, and no, I’d guess they aren’t close to iPad prices, but I’d expect them to actually function, and for the camera to have a flash in 2019!
I’d expect them to function, basically, and they don’t.
Google admitted a couple of years back they read every gmail, Amazon finally admitted they listen, as did Apple IIRC (and I may not via home speakers), rumour mill was Facebook use the mic and camera in machines to place better ads (IIRC some chap in Shetland did some testing) so they're all at it - possibly paranoia from Trump (surely not)
I do wonder if it is only ouw own naivety that expects the tech companies to not exploit us in some way
Bought too many Apple accessories and apps.
Easy to use and not worrying about security compared to Android but then is any OS secure?
Apple customer service, recalls, updates and worldwide warranty is brilliant.
Replaced my iPhone and iPad no quibbles. When I was in Sydney, they replaced my overheating iPhone with a newer model 2 weeks before it was out of warranty. Customer for life.
New phone prices are silly. Still have my X and not upgrading yet.
I run a Huawei phone (p9 lite) I've had it 3 years and it's been a good phone apart from the strava issue but I've got a garmin.
I'm due a new phone and as I do a lot of outdoors I don't want an expensive phone.
I was ready to buy a new Huawei phone but this has really put me off.
One thing that surprised me is I haven't seen any big discounts on Huawei phones. I guess the market is waiting to see what happens.
Apple customer service, recalls, updates and worldwide warranty is brilliant.
No ads is a big bonus and the thing that will probably see my next phone being an iPhone.
Google are gradually introducing them into the news feed on their own launcher, and the Play Store sends constant push notifications which can't be disabled, even with the new granular permission controls in Android Q. It's almost impossible to differentiate ads in Google search results on Pixel phones now as well, as the only difference is a tiny icon saying "Ad" in the top corner of the result box.
Gmail also gets ads everywhere, which I can understand on the web version or generic Android client, but not on a Pixel phone where a premium price is paid for a purer Android experience.