[Closed] Would 34% of the UK vote for such a far right politician like Le Pen?

Anyway the May has since last summer been trying along with the [b][u]Brexy press [/u][/b]to create a monoculture. Hence the enemies, saboteurs, and we're all Brexies now statements.

She is definitely trying to kill off diversity and multiculturalism.

There you go.

She could have instantly turned round and said that wasn't acceptable - she didn't.

I'd like to know, whether if Mr. Macaroon had been a 15 year old girl, having an affair with her male drama teacher, the media and the people in general would have been quite so willing to cheer him as first man in the same way they have cheerd Mrs. Robinson.

gobuchul - Member
So all Tory voters are racists?

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

You tell me/us/the world. You are dismissing my stance on the subject so come clean with your view.

Or, maybe, go read the News.

All the stuff about coming together, acting as one, crushing those who disagree.

She could have instantly turned round and said that wasn't acceptable - she didn't.

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I don't like May. I am left of centre on somethings, centre on others and a little bit right on others.

However making shit up that simply isn't true does not help. Calling people racists, ignorant bigots just helps UKIP.

Putting words in peoples mouths doesn't help.

All it does is feed Trump/UKIP/Le Pen. #Fakenews.

I'd like to know, whether if Mr. Macaroon had been a 15 year old girl, having an affair with her male drama teacher, the media and the people in general would have been quite so willing to cheer him as first man in the same way they have cheerd Mrs. Robinson.

Do you mean like Donald Trump??

Do you mean like Donald Trump??

Exactly!

As I posted years ago if the majornparties don't address voter concerns then outsiders will cone to fill the gap

Or they could try and explain that what the voters see as issues are not actually issues, i.e. immigration. rather than just going along in ignorance.

Or they could try and explain that what the voters see as issues are not actually issues, i.e. immigration. rather than just going along in ignorance.

Or you could have a system where voters are actually important, FPTP doesn't help. Would UKIP have risen if there wasn't a small number who could be ignored rather than challenged. If the media actually did there job and informed rather than publishing any old gossip to get numbers.

Why is it for instance that Farage is always on the BBC yes he is an MEP, so why is he different to other MEPs?? How much coverage do the Green party get who have an MP? etc.

FPTP doesn't help.

You would have had a lot of UKIP MP's if you had proportional representation.

Or they could try and explain that what the voters see as issues are not actually issues, i.e. immigration. rather than just going along in ignorance

That hasn't played well for Corbyn for the last couple of years, just look at some of the threads on here

You would have had a lot of UKIP MP's if you had proportional representation.

Firstly, would you, and secondly is that a bad thing? A party that has to be exposed to real scrutiny.

Every school boy's fantasy, what are you on about, GeeTee?

British pop song:

Go Emmanuel, go Brigitte ! Soyez heureux !

However making shit up that simply isn't true does not help. Calling people racists, ignorant bigots just helps UKIP.

Putting words in peoples mouths doesn't help.

I didn't make stuff up. I didn't call people racist (national superior was the closest I got). And I don't think I put words in people mouths - though the Mail may have with the crush the saboteurs stuff.

Our opinions differ. Which I think is OK. I trust you do too?

outofbreath - Member
"We are one of the most multi-cultural and diverse nations on Earth."

+1

The places I frequent are certainly multi-cultural and diverse, a wonderful range of nationalities and ethnicities everywhere I go. Work, social the lot.

This I'd happily agree with; while I don't have absolute proof to support it, I'm convinced there are a great many countries around the world which have little racial diversity and little tolerance for others of different ethnicities and religions.
While my small market town in the north of Wiltshire only has relatively small communities from other countries, they are actually spread throughout the town, and everyone mixes together and works together with little or no conflict that I've ever been able to detect.
There are African, various European, (Polish, Romanian, French, German...), Indian, ****stani, Bangladeshi, Chinese, and quite possibly other small numbers of Asian families, it's difficult to tell* - I've lived here all of my life, and on any given Saturday it's rare that I see anyone I actually know, but I see a huge variety of different folks, that in a town of around 55,000.
I wouldn't have it any other way, all I would like to see are limits placed on the numbers of people allowed in each year, European or otherwise, rather than a free-for-all which just places excessive strain on housing, services, etc.
*Oddly, although there are pretty large numbers of Japanese visitors to the region, many encouraged by a close friend, who regularly has Japanese staff, I'm not sure that there are any Japanese or Korean nationals living locally, which I find a bit odd, considering there are a number of high-tech engineering companies around here.
Shame, really.

I wouldn't have it any other way, all I would like to see are limits placed on the numbers of people allowed in each year, European or otherwise, rather than a free-for-all which just places excessive strain on housing, services, etc.

I assume European or otherwise includes the 600,000 odd new comers we get each year who place a huge strain on society's resources and refuse to work for years (newborns if that helps).

Countries are a bit of a joke really aren't there. There's just no rhyme or reason to them.

Forget left and right.

The biggest division is now between those that blame migration for their country's ills, and those that don't.

Any party that appeals to the former will do well in Britain as it currently stands. I'd go as far as to say that a party HAS to appeal to the former to do well in England and Wales.

Unlikely to be a party started by fascists and Vichy here, for obvious reasons, so we can't compare with what is happening in France.

The danger here is more subtle, and manifests itself as much in our 2 main parties as any other opportunists.

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been here before by the way.

The biggest division is now between those that blame migration for their country's ills, and those that don't.

utter rot.

You might was well say its between those that like the colour blue or those that prefer red. You really can not boil down political sentiment to such a base presumption just because you dont like "the others" that vote differently to you.

It was the whole problem with the brexit referendum, to distill so many issues into a the stupidest of questions has now carved the country into thinking that every political decision has to be black or white. It never is nor will be. And if you want to win a political argument, you have to work the margins. Rarely is it Blue or Red, Black or White, Racist or Multicultural, its a balance of fears and expectations over a huge range of policies.

utter rot.

You might was well say its between those that like the colour blue or those that prefer red. You really can not boil down political sentiment to such a base presumption just because you dont like "the others" that vote differently to you.

It was the whole problem with the brexit referendum, to distill so many issues into a the stupidest of questions has now carved the country into thinking that every political decision has to be black or white. It never is nor will be. And if you want to win a political argument, you have to work the margins. Rarely is it Blue or Red, Black or White, Racist or Multicultural, its a balance of fears and expectations over a huge range of policies.

sadly the Brexit GE seems to be all about that split

I think a more interesting question is "Would 66% of the UK vote for a humanist, euro and EU positive, centrist politician like Macron"?

My answer to that is: no chance.

My answer to that is: no chance.

There is no way you could know that, especially if you take out the EU nonsense.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39845905

Just looked at his policies, he's cutting public spending and staff, cutting corporation tax, cutting social security contributions, happy to contribute military to Syria and raising military spending.
As a centrist, he has some more left leaning stuff as you'd expect, but Corbyn would shudder at reading that ^^ lot.

especially if you take out the EU nonsense

You might as well say "especially if the Tories increase taxation to fund increased benefits" or "especially if Labour taxes the poor more and the super rich less" (even if that's what Blair did).

So the question remains: "Would 66% of the UK vote for a humanist, euro and EU positive, centrist politician like Macron"?

It's pretty bizarre that in NE [s]France[/s]England where the regions rely on cross-border business (particularly in [s]Lorraine[/s]Sunderland) they're voting overwhelmingly for someone who wouldn't help them:

FTFY

So you think everyone who voted for UKIP is a racist?

Where on earth did you drag that from? The question was "Would 34% of the UK vote for such a far right politician like Le Pen"? I would assert UKIP is far right.

You might as well say "especially if the Tories increase taxation to fund increased benefits" or "especially if Labour taxes the poor more and the super rich less"

Nothing to do with Brexit, nor the EU. Not everyone views in/out as left/right.
If we in the UK had a straight fight between a Macron and a Le Pen, having annihilated all of the other options by choice then yes damn right we would vote in a centrist.

utter rot.

I maintain that viewing politics in left/right terms ignores the real ideological battle taking place.
Both left and right can use the migration fears (and hatred) to gain the upper hand if they want.

We've already had elections where both main UK wide parties promise to be 'strong' as regards immigration.

Voices that embrace migration, it's benefits, and the people that move, are increasingly marginalised, by all "sides" of the old political divide.

5th post nails it. Grum speaks sense.

I disagree, Wrecker. Given exactly the same policies I reckon the UK would have chosen Le Pen over Macron. Our resident Euro/EU hater, Jamba, is also enthusiastic about Le Pen - read through the referendum thread if you have a day to waste.

Yes - In a single vote against one other.

It's about far more than the EU!!!! UKIP didn't get into power, and neither will they. They would not make a final two, should there be an elimination as FN did in france.
Considering the main two parties in this country are centre left and centre right, unlike in france where they are centre and right right. Given the shape of the french election, they are in no position to paint the UK as right wing.

Edukator - Reformed Troll
I disagree, Wrecker. Given exactly the same policies I reckon the UK would have chosen Le Pen over Macron. Our resident Euro/EU hater, Jamba, is also enthusiastic about Le Pen - read through the referendum thread if you have a day to waste.

So? What is the problem? People can elect or vote who they like even to your distaste. Is it wrong to have different views to yours? Who say you have the right views? 😆

unlike in france where they are centre and right right.

I think you need to look at the French primary presidential election results again, Wrecker. Or any first round of a legislative election in the 5th republic.

I think you need to loo at the policies of the French right which are somewhat to the left of Tony Blair. It's not for nothing that France is referred to as "socialist land" on CNBC.

I know who made the final rounds, edukator.

I think you need to loo at the policies of the French right which are somewhat to the left of Tony Blair.

Le Pen's (senior or junior) aren't, (neither are Macron's for that matter)and not only did they get to the "final", they got a third of the vote.

Edukator - Reformed Troll
I think you need to loo at the policies of the French right which are somewhat to the left of Tony Blair. It's not for nothing that France is referred to as "socialist land" on CNBC.

There was already communist movement before WWII started. You should watch BBC documentary about French lefties during WWII. 😛

I think a more interesting question is "Would 66% of the UK vote for a humanist, euro and EU positive, centrist politician like Macron"?

My answer to that is: no chance.

Well 24% voted for Macron in the first round and as per cChris's post in the EU thread a big chunk (most ?) of Macron's votes in the second tour where votes against Le Pen. So 66% of France did not vote [b]for[/b] Macron

@kerley just so its clear I don't blame immigrants for the UKs problems but Indo think uncontrolled immigration from the EU is unbalanced (ve global) and that a visa based controlled system like the rest of the world has is far superior.

To pick up on bikebouy's point London is a fabulous international multicultural city the significant majority of the non-Brits being from outside the EU from data I have seen. We need more of that around the UK, more global diversity. 10% of the UK's net migrants last year and fhe largest nationality where Romanians, that just strikes me a a bit nuts.

Also, quite a lot of Le Pen's policies are further left than Macron

"Tens of thousands" means fewer migrants from everywhere… being selectively against Romanians isn't going to get more people from India, Africa or elsewhere into the UK. Hitch your coat tails to the anti-immigrant movements and you won"t help ANY migrants (except perhaps the rich elite that laugh at visas and quotas).

[quote=jambalaya ]Also, quite a lot of Le Pen's policies are further left than Macron

I'm not disagreeing, but I suspect a more accurate way to put that might be that a lot of Macron's policies are further right then Le Pen's! To paraphrase the messing around that took place earlier, if you took out the right wing xenophobic nonsense Le Pen would be a sensible moderate politician.