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It's good to know there is support out there. We do have a petition going, would it be ok to post it on here? It's ok if not, I don't want to be spamming the board.
Post it up man!
Thanks chaps.
Link for the petition is here
There is also a video that our union have created which might interest you, although I warn you it's a bit of a tear jerker! Plenty of information on what we make, the history of the site and how it will affect the town if the site closes. Save our site video
I've just realised my break even price is about £2.70. There's the long game... 😂
this is flooping stupid, the level of advanced materials, engineering and manufacturing skills involved in being able to make an modern fan blade is increadible, and worth so much more to the economy (and future economy) than just the current savings from shifting the jobs out
utter joke.
Utterly shocking useless piece of shite.
DO NOT EVER USE AJBELL TO TRADE WITH
Markets have just gone insane and my piece of shit ISA won't let me trade.
****in hell
Did anyone else get good trades in?
That was insane. RR up by 50% in the space of an hour.
I think all my SIPPs / ISAs take 1-2 days to execute any buy/sell, so no chance of tracking fast changes!
Not that I deal more than about 1 or 2 times a year....
all on the back of the Pfizer announcement I guess?
Easyjet up 30% too.
My portfolio just about breaks even now, go me.
all on the back of the Pfizer announcement I guess?
Biden + Republican Senate = no major legislation, so good for business.
Holy smokes.
RR currently up 92.21% on the day.
Mad
Alas I'm not, as I sold my last chunk this morning, and my options don't arrive till Thursday, by which time I'm sure they will be way down.
After following this post got some RR shares.
Also used some funds on some other airlines, BP and safe BT.
Have cashed in half of shares when topped out and will look to invest again if price drops.
Never done this before but seems quite addictive.
Any other tips?
Looking at long term investments in anything to do with travel and planes.
Apparently RR are close to do doing a deal on building nuclear power stations.
Never done this before but seems quite addictive.
Understatement of the century. I'm completely hooked on it. I get utterly inundated with all sorts of vile adverts for betting shops and online casinos and other stuff I would rather boil my bollocks than use. But clearly Google is monitoring my trading activity and deduced that I'm a gambling addict....
Looking at long term investments in anything to do with travel and planes.
I got heavily into Jet2, BA, RR, BP etc simply because they were the ones that tanked most in April.
Apparently RR are close to do doing a deal on building nuclear power stations.
Yep, thought that I as interesting. I wonder if it is stactor in the recent price rise? I don't think it is, but be good to see.
OK. I'm going out on a limb here and saying RR will drop by 30% by Friday...
Let's see.
One of my mates was in process of moving his share stash over to AJ Bell, they were utterly rubbish and he's in throes of moving it all back again (to Charles Stanley I think) - so not the only one @thegeneralist.
.. I was with ATS and have been migrated over to ii..
I wonder if it is stactor in the recent price rise? I don’t think it is, but be good to see.
Unlikely, the vaccine announcement meant people expect reality to return earlier than expected, so anyone who has tanked due to CV-19 should have got a lift out of it. Oddly, tech stocks dipped, I guess as people expect a return to offices sooner, so less need for Zoom, Teams, Skype etc etc.
Wall Street have been preparing for Biden; see stance taken by Blackrock and others on green/environmental issues which aligns with re-signing to the Paris accord.
As for recent price movements of US tech stocks - some or any of...profit taking, increased scrutiny by and pressure from Congress, possible transition away from WFH back to office if vaccine is fully tested and approved.
I would expect US shares to, generally, continue on an upward trend - Biden will find a way to better work with China on tariffs/trade; once his team settle in there will be 2 years to the midterms so some certainty; tech dominance will continue despite Congress.
UK shares, on the other hand...brexit transition, tariffs, paucity of trade agreements, gov unwilling to think 'outside the box' re borrowing/money creation/investment so austerity V2, hesitant and low grade leadership, limited tech sector, shrunken manufacturing sector, unattractive prospect for skilled migrants, long on talk but short on action.
Friday might be a good day to buy in, if you want a good long term investment.
Friday might be a good day to buy in, if you want a good long term investment.
Why do you say that?
There'll likely be a drop/correction on the rights issue stock hitting the market tomorrow and some who've taken the rights and bought at a discount (32p a share) will likely sell out for a quick buck. That's how I read it anyway. It'll never get back to £7 as the stock is significantly diluted by the Rights Issue but its a solid business with cash to get them through the remainder of covid affected trade period.
The bump in many shares earlier this week was amplified by short sellers having to buy at a higher price, so although the news was good, it wasn't _that_ good. I sold my shares and rights at about the £1 mark this morning, still nursing a small loss overall but no where near as tragic as a couple of weeks ago. Might go back in if they drop to 80p or so.
Staying in for my 3 years as planned. Don’t care about the rollercoaster on the way. Pretty sure the world will still need power, engineering and engines in 3yrs.
Share price seems to be stabilising around 90p. Long term there is a lot of potential if the the SMR project bears fruit. My only worry is that the management structure is still incredibly bloated. They keep making noises as if they are going to cull the management but as yet there has been little real movement.
In terms of Barnoldswick, the stance doesn't seem to be changing and the upper echelons seem intent on destroying the site, despite it's heritage. Political pressure is building however and the court of public opinion is on our side. Let's hope ethics, morals and common sense can permeate into the psyche of a FTSE 100 company.
They keep making noises as if they are going to cull the management but as yet there has been little real movement.
5000 of the 9000 global job losses announced earlier in the year will be gone by year end including 950 management heads announced just a couple of weeks ago just from UK civil business alone. Couple with that the multiple global site closures, offloading of some multi-million dollar business from its portfolio and the £5bn raised through a combination of shares rights issues, debt re-structuring and some accounting shenanigans, the company seems to be making massive strides to survive and ride out the current storm. Not sure you can claim they're all talk and no action. It's utterly brutal and devastating for those involved.
Jobs will be created from the SMR project but nowhere near the numbers that have been lost. Though the company is 50% civil engines which is driving the current woes (Defence, Powersystems and Nuclear doing very well) recovery will hopefully begin by mid next year it will still take a good 4 years to get back to 2019 levels so billions of lost revenue to the company so not going to see any significant growth for a while yet. Overnight the size of the company has been significantly reduced. Just look at the numbers in other big aerospace giants like GE P&W, Boeing and Airbus, not to mention the Airlines and suppliers, airports etc. The whole global industry is on its knee's. But if it can get through the current crisis it will be well placed to take advantage of the recovery when it comes, so keep hold of your shares.
But if it can get through the current crisis it will be well placed to take advantage of the recovery when it comes, so keep hold of your shares.
The key word is...if.
As for recovery, that's another if; it's not when.
Are you an employee and/or shareholder?
Shares are for the long term and, if I held any in RR today, would keep them; they have little value at present but a long term potential upside.
As someone who is inside the company I can tell you there is a massive difference between announced job losses and actual job losses (when it comes to management - they are happy to cull anyone actually laying their hands on the product). The majority of the management job losses so far have been a smoke and mirrors affair. A part of the business may be sold off and those 350 managers are included in the total management reduction, despite that part of the business being horrendously over-managed (genuine example). Managers are shunted sideways into other roles and are included in the reduction. Managers are transferred to another company - owned by rolls Royce - which subsequently provides contractors to the company in the form of - you guessed it, management.
Even with the swingeing cuts to Barnoldswick - I have seen the final proposed figures which leave 69 shop floor workers on the entire Barnoldswick campus, but there are still 7 left in management. A 1 to 10 ratio is ridiculous, I don't care what business you work in. The Barnoldswick campus was 1000+ when I started 9 years ago for some context.
The business is re-sizing, this is a fact. But if it re-sizes and still keeps an insane proportion of managers to workers it will still be an inefficient business.
Also, the 'offloading of multi billion pound businesses' - on the whole I see this as a negative thing. Many of these businesses produce parts FOR Rolls-Royce. Example - ITP aero. It produces parts for the company - they might raise cash in the short term by selling it, but then they have to buy every single component ITP makes back!
Every measure the company is introducing increases temporary cash flow, but increases long term liabilities. Increased debt, diluted shareholding, bond obligations, outsourcing liabilities, increased contractors. I'm not saying some of these measures aren't necessary, but don't mistake temporary cash flow for progress. If the civil aerospace takes longer than estimated to recover, Rolls-Royce is in serious trouble.
My hopes are pinned in terms of long term growth on the SMR project and the new ultrafan engine getting an airframe (hopefully Boeing's touted new mid range aircraft).
Just bear in mind wobbliscott that it is one thing to listen to the guff that upper management and execs put out in their shareholder briefings, and another thing to witness it firsthand. They have been incredibly disingenuous with the reduction in management roles over the last two years (remember this has been an ongoing reduction, the new announcement has only increased management reductions very slightly) and from what I have seen historically I will be very surprised if they meet their target reductions to management. Time will tell, but I can only share what I have seen and experienced.
A 1 to 10 ratio is ridiculous, I don’t care what business you work in.
Seems quite high to me, most companies I've worked for are about 1 to 7, certainly less than 1 to 10.
Markets have just gone insane and my piece of shit ISA won’t let me trade.
**** hell
Seems all the ISA platforms struggled!
https://www.ft.com/content/dd3cf99a-ff71-44d4-831c-0edac79d3104
Trading volumes broke all records for platforms as markets rose on Monday, doubling or tripling what they would ordinarily handle.
“It’s not the first time we’ve seen platforms struggle, but it is the first time we’ve seen almost all of the platforms quite literally fall over at the same time,” said Holly Mackay, founder of consumer investment consultancy, Boring Money.
and
Hargreaves Lansdown, the UK’s largest retail investment platform, experienced outages as well as thousands of duplicated trades, causing “extreme stress” to investors. One client trading a £25,000 Isa into tech company shares, realised something was wrong when she received seven confirmation emails — and saw she owned more than £175,000 in shares, pushing her ISA £150,000 into debt.
Seems all the ISA platforms struggled!
Fair point. HL was the other option, but really want to support local business rather than sending all my custom down south.
Seems quite high to me, most companies I’ve worked for are about 1 to 7, certainly less than 1 to 10.
Erm. Unless I'm mistaken, 1 to 7 isn't less than 1 to 10...
Shares faring slightly better than I thought they would.
Our site in Barnoldswick not too well, we're being closed for Christmas on Friday 🤯
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-lancashire-55073841
Mudpackerdan. Just signed the petition, Sory for the delay.
Anyone else missed Dan's link above?
Let's get some more signatures.
https://www.megaphone.org.uk/petitions/save-our-site-battle-for-barnoldswick-rolls-royce
Signed. Fingers crossed for Barlick.
Cheers lads, appreciate it. Plenty of noise being made in the press and in parliament too. Hopefully our management will see the light 🤞
Good news! We've managed to secure 350 jobs at the Barnoldswick site for the next 10 years.
Many thanks to all who signed the petition.
Let's hope those shares go upwards.
Good news indeed!
Good news! We’ve managed to secure 350 jobs at the Barnoldswick site for the next 10 years.
Many thanks to all who signed the petition.
Let’s hope those shares go upwards.
That is awesome news. Really pleased.
😁
OK doke. Dropped 1/3 from recent highs, and about 20% in the last week.
Anyone care to join me ?
( Usual caveats apply)
86.9
Yep I'm in too.
Apparently, pokemon card dealerships are where the action's at these days.
https://twitter.com/ShaanVP/status/1353951035224694785
Yep I’m in too
Good man. 11% in 5 hours is none too shabby. Alas I didn't have the courage of my convictions so only bought a bit.
You?
Sell now for 11% and hope it drops again tomorrow, or wait to try to get 20% out of it....
Hmmmm
Liked that hedge fund Reddit story.
Not investing with large amount looking long term investment.
My trade commission is based on lumping several trades in together buying on a set date on Thursday coming (only £2.5 per trade with Halifax sharebuilder)
Thought I'd take a chance too. I'm up £137 today from yesterday. I am definitely not into day trading and quick returns but I can see the appeal when it does this. 🙂
I wasn't sure about the ethics of this one. Not super keen on "defense" investment but they are a good UK employer with a decent graduate training program so on balance decided it was OK.
I bought in before the rights issue and currently just about breaking even but saw the highs of 130p plus in December. It's a volatile share price so day traders can clean up if they time it right but to me that's gambling. This is a long term hold if you buy in at these sort of prices. Some good diversification into cleaner energy and with a new chairman to be appointed and increases in flight hours later in the year, it's a good investment.
91.7 now
Rolls Royce are looking to build mini nuclear reactors for the UK, a bit like they have on nuclear submarines.
If it works out then they could see some growth.
Personally I'm dubious how much life there is left in nuclear once large scale storage batteries get going.
Small modular reactors look to be the medium term future for energy demands, at least going from the international news traffic - it isn't just Rolls Royce on this bandwagon. I'm hoping we jump on the green energy bandwagon also really - green energy is something I'd love to be a part of manufacturing.
Share price wise Rolls relies heavily on civil aerospace flying hours and repair work for its revenue (totalcare). The slower this takes to recover, the slower the revenues and share price will recover. We're still on a ventilator in terms of company performance at the minute - the vaccine rollout, if successful, may result in a big upturn in share price. If unsuccessful, well we're possibly looking at bailout territory as Rolls is burning cash for fun at the minute.
Again, thanks for the support chaps, it's been a mad 11 months.
According to France 24 air traffic is down to 2003 levels. I looked up and thought 'why can't I see a plane then?', a busy air corridor to Madrid goes over my head. With less flights and fewer passengers in them the industry is bleeding cash and won't see the benefits of vaccination until after the Summer. I hope (as a green) that some reductions will be permanent as businesses have learned to work virtually.
Air France KLM lost 7.1 billion last year, Airbus lost at least 1.1 billion, Boeing lost 11.9 billion
The airline industry is a $2.5 trillion global business and underpins the whole global economy and most of our jobs rely on it somewhere in the supply chain, even if the impact of flying is invisible to you in your job. It is forecast to recover to pre covid levels around 2024 then continue to grow pretty much as it was before COVID. Business wont retain working remotely from customers and already business travel is picking up...some people taking quarantining - may as well work from a hotel room than at home with the prospect of meeting with prospective customers. There may be more of remote working going on but it will be additional to and not instead of face to face business.
If anything there could be the prospect of more business travel after covid. Some businesses are choosing to close office buildings and saving hundreds of grand a month in building lease charges and maintenance costs, with employees basing themselves from home and traveling to visit customers more often. The company my brother works for has done this. He can now live anwyhere he wants in Europe and not tied to commutable distance to the office, and just travel to visit clients and customers wherever they may be as required. If you're saving £100k a month on building costs that can fund alot of business trips which is a far better use of capital.
The challenge for airlines is wether business class travel will return or will businesses downgraded to economy or premium economy. Business class accounts for a significant amount of revenue and profit for an airline business model.
There is significant pent up demand for people returning to flying for business and pleasure and to re-connect with family, another big driver for air travel. Before Covid about 1000 people a day flew into Manchester Airport a day from ****stan, mostly for family visits and events like weddings. Thats just Manchester Airport - similar levels into Birmingham, Glasgow and even more into Heathrow and Gatwick. The question is can airlines and manufacturers survive until the recovery kicks in?
The good thing for RR is that their global fleet is quite young and mostly made up of the latest gen aircraft and engines so the cleanest aircraft and most efficient flying - over 10% more efficient than previous generation aircraft so that's ALOT of CO2 savings a year in an industry that only contributes less than 3% of CO2 emissions. So as the recovery starts airlines are more likely to bring their newer and more efficient aircraft back into service ahead of the 'old smokers', some of which will never fly again other than a ferry flight to to be parked in the desert and broken up for parts.
As to what impacts RR share price...well that is one of life's mysteries. They win an order and the share price goes down, they lose an order and the share price goes down. RR is a long term business and the finance industry just doesn't understand the business so there is often no logic to the response of the share price to what's going on with the company. But RR has secured alot of free cash to ride out the next few years until the recovery hopefully kicks in. Over 5K people out of 9k announced global redundancies walked out of the door in 2020 with the closure of several significant production facilities globally. Thankfully the fiancee industry has recognised the extraordinary steps the company has taken to weather the storm. But probably still wont reflect in the share price.
Some news about a possible a350 freight variant coming, this could be potential good news.
Anybody still riding this particular roller coaster? Bit of a spike over the last few days. I'm quite tempted to cash in as I'm £900 up since January but I normally buy and hold and this could be the start of the march back to 2019 levels as the world opens up. How is everyone doing
Aha, was thinking about this thread. My current batch appears to be £600 up. Sold some last week at 115 and have a limit order to sell more at 122. Got within 60p of it yesterday, but not quite there.
🙂
It's a tricky one (obviously). The recent rise makes me also want to cash out, but as you say, its still only a third of its max so has some serious potential if things get back to normal.
BUT then of course there is a school of thought that says there ain't no going back to normal. Global warming, Webex etc mean that things ain't never gonna be the same again.
The other one that surprises me is BP. I had shit loads of them a year ago but have been getting rid as I'm expecting huge pressure being put on institutional investors to dump oil stock, at which point it'll go through the floor.
But the bloody stuff is up 10% this month...🤨
I'm slowly heading FF's ( and pretty much everyone else TBF) advice and moving out of trading gambling individual shares and just dumping it all in funds.
Also got some BA for the kids last week at 1.36, which I'm immensely pleased about. It's up 25% 😛🤪🤑
Just sold. Bought into a green(ish) fund with the money so a financial and moral win. Watch it soar now 🙂
I backed the wrong horse with IAG mid pandemic. But I wasn't expecting a quick turnaround so I'll be sitting on them for a good while yet.
What's the collective's view on Lufthansa shares at the moment?
Bloody Nora. 25% down today. What's that all about?
Aha share issue.
Sorry for the stupid question, but does anyone know if I buy today whether I get the option on the new ones or if I need to have owned them prior to today?
Or indeed if I can buy them regardless of whether I currently own them...
What’s the collective’s view on Lufthansa shares at the moment?
Just bought a grand at £5.32....
And hoping that this gives me the option on the issue at
****. Just looked further, and it appears that the issue starts today, which suggests that I had to own this morning to get the rights, which I didn't, so I won't.
Oops
Which explains why it dropped 25% overnight... owning the shares yesterday entitled you to buying more today at a discount. But owning them today doesn't.
Ah, well. Quite funny really. Could have been worse.
it appears that the issue starts today
Where did you see that? I'm looking and can't find anything on the relevant dates.
The gross proceeds are expected to amount to EUR 2,140 million. The subscription price of EUR 3.58 per New Share corresponds to a discount of 39.3% on the TERP (theoretical ex-rights price). The subscription ratio is 1:1. The new shares are to be offered to the Company’s shareholders during the subscription period, which is expected to commence on September 22, 2021 and end on October 5, 2021. The rights trading is expected to commence on September 22, 2021 and end on September 30, 2021.
I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like the logical explanation.
Yesterday the shares were €8, today they have dropped to €6. The only explanation I can think of is that yesterday you could also look forward to buying a matching share for €3.58 or whatever.
Ie 8+3.58 = 11.58
Which is the same as 6 +6.
Stands to reason: at the point you lose your right to buy at half price, the share price falls by a quarter....
No?
No?
Indeed. The prospectus states (pg 60, but can't copy and paste for some reason) that it is "...on the basis of the holdings as of September 21, 2021, in the evening,..."
Your figures make sense, but the rub is that although the share offer price is at 3.58 they almost always open higher than that, meaning quick cut and run profits for those who got in on time. Sadly that's not you or me, it appears.
Ho hum, they might bounce back slightly pre-offer...
I'm up 60% after the rights issue, can't complain. Not letting go until some rich PE folk with hyper inflated $'s or so try to force a sale.
Just sold. Bought into a green(ish) fund with the money so a financial and moral win. Watch it soar now 🙂
Up another 10p again today [RR]
So sold another wee batch. Going to run out soon!
Share prices in general are nuts just now. I'm up 33% on last year.
Yep. Still in. Short term it has been a roller coaster but long term prospects look good. I'm holding and sitting on a decent return since investing (20%+). ITP sale is imminent (or at least announcement of an agreement) and there is an outside chance they will win the bid to refit USAF B52s (one of three bids). Business has been streamlined and the ITP sale will significantly reduce borrowing costs. In terms of ethics, they've just successfully tested an electric plane (spirit of innovation) and are trialling engines using Sustainable Aviation Fuel. The flip side is they will be involved in the Australian subs contract. I think the rise to 130p is a correction following US routes opening up again rather than another bubble.
I don't mean to crash the RR and airline sector party but I feel compelled to say the only thing worth investing in at the moment is AMC. Get in now before the mother of all short squeezes (MOASS) happens without you. I'm not going to justify this opinion, as there is so much information already available online to justify it. I have been "all in" on AMC since late May, having made reasonable money on the likes of Moderna, Bionano Genomics and others (not RR!) in the past. This is more than an investment, it's a movement to level the playing field and bring the hedgefunds and market makers down.
Good luck with that
Can’t give opinion on AMC but you know that a good portion of hedge funds are on your side of the trade and that retail volume is basically insignificant. Retail investors are mere pawns.
AMC
You got in in May, when it was around 10 dollah. You now want us to go in at 40 dollah.....
Erm, no.
AMC is very different, retail investors (the so-called "apes") own 80% of the float, with institutions holding the rest. ORTEX data shows the short interest is now over 20% with 105 million or so shares short and those are only the ones we can see. 60%+ volume is routed via dark pools, naked shorting has been rife, there are an unknown amount of synthetic short shares as well as the 105 million that will need to be covered. If the apes continue their "buy and hold" strategy the shorts won't be able to cover until the apes decide to sell, pushing the price higher and higher, along with gamma squeezes (on the most highly traded derivatives (call and put options) in the market) and FOMO... I'm starting to justify it when I said I wouldn't!
Even if you aren't interested in putting any money into it it's very interesting and will likely go down in history.
I'm not telling anyone to buy anything, I'm just trying to raise awareness. That being said, $40 is cheap, if you believe that the price could potentially go to 4, 5, maybe 6 figures if/when it squeezes. Do your own research and make up your own minds.
Meme stocks? I'll pass. Enjoy the free money bonanza!
6 figures? I'll use my profits to buy some of whatever you're smoking
(And I write that as someone who already has a small position in AMC)
Didn't realise retail owned so much, thought it was another Gamestop with Blackrock behind the apes. Vanguard and Blackrock are the largest institutional shareholders of AMC. Will grab some popcorn and watch from the sidelines. Will certainly be interesting with Top Gun, Mission Impossible and James Bond all awaiting release.
I put 50 quid into AMC at $30, doubled my money and ran away. I don't think I'll be jumping back in again.
Don't know if anyone follows Doomberg - generally tends to the pessimistic side but is always an interesting read. Here's his take on AMC, which is very negative indeed. But then again, it's a meme stock - who knows what will happen.
That being said, $40 is cheap
No...
Look at the business model of AMC, what industry its operating in and what its historic value is.
Long term it'll drop back to $10
In the short term you could get lucky and make some money if your timing is right, but there are going to be a lot of smaller investors who are going to lose out when they decide to cash in a $40 stock that has an intrinsic value of ~$10
is exactly what the "experts" said about Gamestop 🤔Look at the business model of AMC, what industry its operating in and what its historic value is.
No…
Look at the business model of AMC, what industry its operating in and what its historic value is.
Long term it’ll drop back to $10
AMC is no longer a fundamental play, it's a short squeeze play. Their share price isn't based on it's fundamental value, it's purely psychological. Having said that, their fundamentals are better than ever and they're growing very healthily.
East Imperial (EISB) has been good for me since I bought at 10.4p on July 21st. Sold just under half on September 14th at 19.9p and banked 90% of my initial investment so will leave the rest to hopefully grow. Not for the feint hearted and details are sketchy but they seem to have a good niche from which to chip away at Fever Tree's market.