[Closed] Worst car indicator design?

Dunno about indicators, but the amount of newer cars with front only DRLs is bonkers, so many people driving around thinking they have rear lights on too, cos the dash is lit up.

Aye that's another howling design flaw.. and one that I must admit my car has if you leave the lights in the "0" position - front DRL's and nothing at the back (this is on a 1-series where a previous 3-series used to light the back up for the same dial switch).

However the switch is always in "Auto" or "On" to avoid this scenario.. hopefully..

I'm surprised more manufacturers haven't followed Audi and BMW and just removed the indicators completely.

Citroen DS3 seem to be among the worst offenders...

I’m surprised more manufacturers haven’t followed Audi and BMW and just removed the indicators completely.

I think Range Rover have followed suit.

Not a design flaw as such, but I was following a transit the other day which appeared to have faulty/non-functioning brake lights. It then stopped in front of me, and I was wondering what it was doing until I noticed the right rear brake light was flashing weakly instead of the indicator. Something seriously wrong with the electrics on that one!

DLR’s are, and have always been, front only. If you have the rears on as well, they’re called sidelights. They’re just an LED version of what Scandinavian cars were doing for years with their headlights. That’s why they’re called Daylight Running Lights, they’re designed to make vehicles more visible approaching from a distance in all lighting conditions apart from twilight when auto-lighting should turn on the other lights. Except in fog, when auto-lights don’t function and should be overridden.

Is this why I see loads of idiots driving around with their fogs on these days. Are they trying to pretend they have a newer car with DLRs 😆

DLR’s are, and have always been, front only. If you have the rears on as well, they’re called sidelights. They’re just an LED version of what Scandinavian cars were doing for years with their headlights.

Not entirely correct - the lights on my Volvo (2004 S40) were permanently on in the dipped beam position - and it included the rear lights also.  They were on all the time - even when the dial was in the 0 position.

Pug 206 - it's right in the inboard corner of the front cluster, very low down. Number of times I've nearly pulled out on one at a roundabout is worrying

so many people driving around thinking they have rear lights on too, cos the dash is lit up.

+1.

Not only are they nigh-on invisible from behind, it's dazzling from the front as DRL's are way too bright for night time use. There really should be a warning lamp to show that it's dark and you've not got your lights on. Would've thought anything with DRL's will also have light sensors so this wouldn't be a difficult thing to implement.

I’m going to vote those Audi “pulse” indicators..

They look stupid, and by the time they’ve flashed at one end they’ve stopped flashing at the other.

They make the car look like it’s having a ****, which the driver probably is.

Maybe they need to be redesigned completely.

Hardly anyone indicates round our way...even on roundabouts!

I’m going to vote those Audi “pulse” indicators..

Indeed. Car reviewers seem to rave about them, but I think they look cheap and tacky.

Ah yes, my old design job...

I think we should now be pretty close to the point the new auto lights-on legislation kicks in...a lot of cars now have dusk sensors that automatically turn on the lights and this is going to be (or is now) a standard fit on all new cars.

A lot of the complaints about LED DRLs are pretty much revolving around a general psychology regarding how you perceive lights on on a car, a great deal of it tends to suggest aggression especially if they are thin long blade shapes... Yes Audis are pretty much the main culprit here ( btw I know their chief lighting designer too...no, you can't have his phone number or email to complain directly...)

The thing is, when you look at the crash data and the issue of accidents especially at junctions when vehicles have pulled out into traffic that they haven't seen, it makes a pretty compelling case for DRLs .

Senor j - nail on head.

Absolutely nothing wrong with DRLs or the pulsing indicators, infact they're more prevalent and noticeable. So safer generally. (No I don't own an Audi)

Move with the times STW.

so many people driving around thinking they have rear lights on too, cos the dash is lit up.

+2 oh God yes. Grey car on motorway in twilight with just front lights on. Seriously, who the hell thought that was a good idea? And what was wrong with sidelights on all round instead?

As far as indicator design goes, I can't believe that the eu hasn't fixed their position outside of the main lights as some kind of standard.

Absolutely +1 for making auto lights a standard fit by law.  This technology has been around for years now so it's hardly breaking technology!

I've driven a few cars where the dashboard lights begin to dim when it gets dark to remind the driver to turn on the headlights - surely it would be simpler - and safer - just for the car to turn on the headlights.....

Those Audi Pulse ones HAVE to be the best idea in motor design for years... Making indicating a NOVELTY (like fog lights!) Then people might actually use them! "Ooh look at my pretty indicators!"

Those absolutely tiny, dim circular ones that you get on Defenders - a step above a hand signal, but that's about it.

The thing is, when you look at the crash data and the issue of accidents especially at junctions when vehicles have pulled out into traffic that they haven’t seen, it makes a pretty compelling case for DRLs .

My point may have been misunderstood, DRL's are ace, I just don't see why they are front only....

Move with the times STW.

Think you’ll find we are moving with the times, hence the criticism “pulse” and overtly bright DLRs are.

I’m a supporter of DLRs, think every car should have them and the new “dusk” sensors fitted to turn the lights on is utterly brilliant, far too many morons on the roads these days and any uplift in tech to keep us safe from them is welcomed.

As for the pulse indicator thingy, it’s a chuffing toy. Indicating is necessary and should be one clear light pulse not some retard disco impression.

Get with the times, absolutely.. lead the way ..

Driving in Nevada last week I was struck with the amount of cars that have red indicators. WTF!

Perhaps we need employ some old technology!

EDIT: damn, beaten to it 🙂

Whilst googling 'DRL / DLR' to see what it means, I found that former Van Halen frontman Dave Lee Roth is now a paramedic in New York. I wonder what indicators his ambulance has?

Those ones that dont seem to work 90% of the time.  I can sit at a roundabout forever, no problems. Luckily have a CD player.

A bit trickier on the bike.  Don't know what any self-absorbed oblivious twit is up to.  So if I make my move and they drive through me, or if I instead wait and wait.  Ether way I have neither comfort of airbags while absorbing the impact, nor comfort of CD player absorbing time waiting for supposedly fellow beans.

Hence the worst designed indicator is the post-Millennial human. Harumph.

citroen CX had odd an indicator switch

While we are here, does anyone know how the auti shading headlamps on some cars actually work? I've googled like mad to find out but can't actually find any detail. Is it a single shutter that moves around or a series that are brought in and how is it done?

Whilst googling ‘DRL / DLR’ to see what it means, I found that former Van Halen frontman Dave Lee Roth is now a paramedic in New York. I wonder what indicators his ambulance has?

Blimey, not sure he would be giving great advice to a suicidal patient standing on the edge of a bridge.....

I can see some sense to those Audi ones - even if all you can see is the light then you know which way it's 'pointing'. I was very surprised to see one with its hazard lights in though - they were still doing the disco thing, which is plain daft. Surely it would have been better to attempt to distinguish? This way it looks like it's saying "I'm going both ways"!

One thing I do find annoying is when a car is parked in amongst other cars, but illegally, with hazard lights on (despite the only hazard being the risk of a parking fine), and as you approach all you can see is an indicator appearing to suggest that they're about to pull out in front of you.

Distinguishing between an intention to change course and a hazard / admission of **** parking would have been good - these fancy lights would do that if we all had them, and in hazard mode they just flashed. Ah well.

While we are here, does anyone know how the auti shading headlamps on some cars actually work?

Wow, I hadn't heard of that until I just Googled it. That's very cool. I thought of that idea years ago - my plan was to cover the front of the headlight with an LCD, but wasn't sure if that would work focusing-wise. I also thought about doing the same in the windscreen. Tracking the driver's head would not be hard now, and it would only have to auto dim the view of headlights coming towards you, not black out even that portion completely.

Indicating is necessary and should be one clear light pulse not some retard disco impression.

Obvious to anyone above moron level... however, unfortunately.. well I don't need to explain.

Someone said indicators should be redesigned, but they're operated by a stalk, RIGHT NEXT TO your finger, you push it gently in the direction you intend to go... It coldn't BE any easier! It isn't the [i]design[/i] of the [i]indicators[/i] that is the issue... again ,really no explanation needed..

Is it a jeep or something which has an x shaped indicator in the middle of the rear cluster? Not the best.

These ones - amount of times when the driver brakes and indicates I've not seen the indicator on. Grrr

Worst design is the american flashing brake lights thingies.

Closely followed by the Santa Fe (I think?) with the indicators way down in the bumper, out of the normal sight line.

The thing is, when you look at the crash data and the issue of accidents especially at junctions when vehicles have pulled out into traffic that they haven’t seen, it makes a pretty compelling case for DRLs .

If I recall correctly a discussion on a another forum (some years ago), DRLs significantly reduce car on car collisions, but slightly increased car/bike and car/motorbike collisions. The suggestion was that when you start looking for cars with two lights, you see other traffic a little less.

I don't know about all the acronyms and technical names being bandied about, above, but what I can't figure out about new indicators on many cars - especially Audis - is this:

Red is the colour of tail and brake lights. Amber is supposed to be the colour of indicators, but amber is yellow with the addition of red. To set a single line of amber in a strong field of red means that the amber inevitably gets flooded out by the red.

Ergo, many of the new indicators are useless.

fifi

Pug 206 – it’s right in the inboard corner of the front cluster, very low down. Number of times I’ve nearly pulled out on one at a roundabout is worrying

This is what I came here to say. From the front the shape of the light and the position of the indicator looks as though it's pointing in the direction opposite to which it actually is.  Terrible design.

I’m going to vote those Audi “pulse” indicators..

They look stupid, and by the time they’ve flashed at one end they’ve stopped flashing at the other.

Not sure that this is true.  The large Audi SUV in front of me this morning indicated and the light started at one end until the whole strip was lit up. Then the whole thing went off and the light started from one end again.  I only really took any notice of it because I'd read this thread before setting off for work.  And it was a rarity for an Audi to indicate on a roundabout.

“Is this why I see loads of idiots driving around with their fogs on these days. Are they trying to pretend they have a newer car with DLRs”

This^^^^

could solve a few issues by instant ban of those who insist on having fogs on when it’s not foggy!

Those saying that front fogs are not DRL's should look closer - both our Ibiza and V70 have what look like fogs as DRL's, and the Volvo does seem to have a dusk/dull sensor when the rears also come on early.

Defender - old one with the piddly little round indicators and old bulb in there, likely covered in crap...

Nissan [s]Joke /[s] Juke also has them buried and well hidden IIRC, especially if they do not have the mirror repeater.

DRL's do not offend, nor the disco Audi's, but the overly bright headlamp bulbs that folk fit do.

Blimey, not sure he would be giving great advice to a suicidal patient standing on the edge of a bridge…..

Thst deserves some recognition. 😂

DLR’s are, and have always been, front only. If you have the rears on as well, they’re called sidelights. They’re just an LED version of what Scandinavian cars were doing for years with their headlights. That’s why they’re called Daylight Running Lights, they’re designed to make vehicles more visible approaching from a distance in all lighting conditions apart from twilight when auto-lighting should turn on the other lights. Except in fog, when auto-lights don’t function and should be overridden.

That's odd because the SAAB 99 that brought them in had 4 light statuses for non-fog use.

1 - Daylights, Front and Rear Side Light bulbs with 21W filament on Front and 5w on Rear
2 - Sidelights, Front and Rear Side Light bulbs with 5w filament illuminated on both
3 - Headlights - Dipped beams, Front and Rear Side Light bulbs with 5w illuminated plus headlights on the 50w filament
4 - Headlights - Full beam, Front and rear side light bulbs at 5w, headlights on the 55/60w filament and what ever extra lights you had attached to the headlight relay illuminated (Optional "Extra" switch to control) (OE was rectangular Bosch despite the rest of the car being Hella)

Due to the headlight relay being linked to the ignition relay most people just put it in setting 3 and used 4 as and when required.

You're possibly thinking of the non-Scandinavian approach to the UK daylight requirement that the EU banned; which was Dim Dip, where the headlights were dipped to half power in daylight rather than turned off.

back to the original topic, the worse indicator set ups are the ones where the indicators are on the inside of the headlamps, utterly hopeless on roundabouts.

Thst deserves some recognition.

Thank you, I was worried it had been missed.

VAG group are the culprit  - started with the Golf I think - hiding the indicator in the headlamp unit , this can only work if the indicator is at the far edge of the cluster , but they put it in the middle - its a great cost reducer but as everybody finds out eventually there are conditions where the indicator is lost in the white light,

Peugeot 5008 (2010 model). like the Quashquai in the OP, it sits slightly above a quite a bit behind the DRLs, which makes it as good as invisible.
We own one and live near a newish roundabout which we have to turn right (3rd exit) on. The number of people coming the other way who slam on the brakes and give us a dirty look as though we weren't indicating is embarassing! I'm not very cautious coming around it and expect to have to emergency stop for oncoming traffic.

Indicators built into the front light cluster and inboard of the headlight is very poor design IMO & IME, makes the indicator very difficult to see, especially when the headlight is on.

This design feature was one of the reasons for rejecting a couple of VAG vehicles when I chose my current car.

Headlight cluster with built in LED DRLs plus a completely separate front indicator (and a mirror repeater) FTW.

So long as things that should be considered statutory safety features are designed from a fashion rather than function standpoint we will continue to see "crap" design. When indicator windows were all amber and on the body corner you never had this issue but as soon as people started "chroming" them thats where the trouble began.

I'm not even going to get into the twunts that "smoke" their light clusters.

Blimey, not sure he would be giving great advice to a suicidal patient standing on the edge of a bridge…..

Bravo, Sir, bravo.

There's a few but as is usually the case I can't remember them - I'll see them on the way home though!!

Biggest problem with all these things is the fleshy bit behind the wheel, they have a tendency to be a bit lazy all wrapped up in their metal box and then a bit ignorant of other road users.

The other problem are these auto lights (I have them and they're great), that problem being that people just assume they work all the time. They don't. I always override them but the amount of people dangerously driving about in poor weather who are oblivious of the fact they're nigh-on invisible to other road users is definitely on the rise.

Don't get me started on people driving around with their fog lights on thinking they look cool as opposed to the total bellend that everyone actually thinks they are. They're fog lights, turn 'em off!!!!

I'd put any sort of wing-mirror mounted indicator into the mix.

When on a bike, and you are overtaken, and the car sticks it's left indicator on just as you are in it's blind spot (next to it's rear passenger door) the angles mean that you cannot see the front, rear or side (wing mirror) indicators.  It's horrendous and the driver has no idea that you cannot see their "clear signal".

I've nearly been left hooked numerous times in this situation.  I'd have taken avoiding action if I could've seen their indicators.  I now assume I'm going to be left hooked pretty much regardless.

Also, DRL's as they cause drivers to "look for lights" not vehicles/people.  I now use a flashing LED on the front at all times on my road bike as it clearly distinguishes me as "bike" rather than "insignificant as not a car".

Those sequential indicators are nothing new, we had them on a 1965 Ford Thunderbird.

They should be in a standard position for the vehicle type. It’s a bit mental with all the variations. It’s like me adopting different hand signals on the push bike just to try and look stylish. The ones with indicators in the middle of a round cluster are the worst though.

DRL

DLR

Dave Ree Loth?

Designers also need to specify an 'auto-on' for lights when in fog/poor visibility.

Terrible weather in this neck of the woods yesterday, no lights, sidelights, 40 t truck with sidelights so, so small. hardly visible.

grrr.

1965 Ford Thunderbird

One reason I like my E-class is excellent lights. the front indicators are so big and bright I can see them reflecting in the back of cars and lighting up any reflective road signs, even in daylight.

Rear high level brake light is the full width of the estate lid window and the normal rear brake lights are huge and very separate from the huge rear indicators.

No one can claim they didnt see your lights.

No front fogs, the car adjusts the adaptive lights when you turn on the rear fog and the adaptive front lights react very well. Only time I have to intervene is for pedestrians who don't trigger the camera.

Is this why I see loads of idiots driving around with their fogs on these days. Are they trying to pretend they have a newer car with DLRs

I know what you're saying, but I think they are doing it to be seen, if everyone else has lights on their car and you don't' you are setting yourself up for an accident.

Is this why I see loads of idiots driving around with their fogs on these days. Are they trying to pretend they have a newer car with DLRs

I used to see people with sidelights and front fogs on regularly, but not so much these days. Doesn’t mean they don’t, but I don’t see it quite as much, maybe because DRL’s are on most recent cars. I’ve replaced the incandescent sidelight bulbs on my Octavia with some LED emitters, and they’re insanely bright, but I don’t turn them on unless the weather turns murky, I don’t have the means to select front only to use them as DRL’s. I have to say, I haven’t noticed any real issues seeing front indicators operating, except when the clot behind the wheel can’t be arsed to actually use them, the absence of a matching light on the door mirror shows they’ve not been used in the majority of occasions. The lack of an orange flashing light when pulling out on motorways, dual-carriageways, in fact most roads shows that many drivers consider the indicator to be an optional extra when buying a car. 🤨