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It's reckoned that at some point in our distant past, (800,000 - 900,00 YA) human population reduced by as much as 95-98%, and was a few as a couple of thousand people, so it's not like its not happened before.
we’ll have long forgotten all the survival techniques we knew in those times.
Nah, have you not seen those preppers? Most are well over 250lbs, that's enough blubber to see through a winter or two.
what’s your realistic, workable solution to Houthi rebels attacking international shipping?
I assume from your phrasing that you are discounting the obvious step of stopping the genocide in Gaza. If your criteria for “realistic” includes “acceptable to US and Israel” then it does reduce the options somewhat.
Ernie, having accepted that the Middle East hasn’t had peace and stability for centuries, merely “relative to Europe”, what’s your realistic, workable solution to Houthi rebels attacking international shipping?
"Merely"? You don't think that it is important to point out Europe's bloody history of instability and wars when the usual, and invariably racist, nonsense about the Middle East gets routinely dragged up?
And the solution to attacks to shipping in the Red Sea? Well that is very simple - don't go through the Red Sea and instead sail south and around South Africa. Which is precisely what a lot of shipping is currently doing.
Obviously that hits Western consumers in the pocket and might fuel inflation but hey, better than war and slaughter of innocent civilians, no?
Of course the other alternative is to stop supplying Israel with advanced weapons to carry out their regular turkey shoot against unarmed civilians and force a ceasefire. But not many Western governments seem to fancy that alternative, certainly not before the US President has decided. So an escalation of war and more killing appears to be the preferred option.
Btw did you know that apparently the Houthis rebels now have the capability to make their own drones at the cost of about £20k each, and the missiles used by the British and French navies to knock them out cost about $1 million each?
An important consideration if economic calculations are a driving factor I would have thought.
I assume from your phrasing that you are discounting the obvious step of stopping the genocide in Gaza.
The International Court of Justice is deciding whether it is genocide.
There are strong emotions on every side, understandably, but the Houthi rebels and their Iranian backers have been attacking commercial shipping prior to the 7th October attacks in Israel.
It's massively ironic that a series of agreements that would have brought greater stability to the Middle Eastern region were in the process of being signed by Israel and various neighbouring countries and have been damaged, possibly irretrievably, by the subsequent actions on both sides. The only reason for this is to maintain power for political groups such as Hamas and the Houthi movement that don't have statehood but enjoy the trappings of power.
If your criteria for “realistic” includes “acceptable to US and Israel” then it does reduce the options somewhat.
The Houthis have attacked two Russian "shadow fleet" oil tankers that were circumventing sanctions, although the attacks were probably in error. The Houthis are taking deliberate actions and making mistakes that will lead to the loss of livelihoods for the Red Sea fishing fleets, amongst others, and more economic problems for the Middle East's population, for example, in the loss of tourism for years should a chemical/oil spill result. It isn't all about the "west" https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/houthis-mistakenly-target-tanker-carrying-russian-oil-ambrey-report-2024-01-12/
The International Court of Justice is deciding whether it is genocide.
Genocide is genocide, whatever the pronouncements of a group of individuals in The Hague. The courts decided that subpostmasters were thieves, remember.
a series of agreements that would have brought greater stability to the Middle Eastern region
Everyone deciding that the Palestinians are expendable is not a great basis for lauding "stability".
Wow! You even mention Corbyn timba! 🤣
It’s massively ironic that a series of agreements that would have brought greater stability to the Middle Eastern region were in the process of being signed by Israel and various neighbouring countries and have been damaged, possibly irretrievably, by the subsequent actions on both sides. The only reason for this is to maintain power for political groups such as Hamas and the Houthi movement that don’t have statehood but enjoy the trappings of power.
Do you mean the Abraham Accord, or the recent deal proposed between Israel and Saudi Arabia? Because neither have involved any delegation or voice from the Palestinian people, and are to do with economic interests and nothing to do with actual peace. The most recent 'deal' is so that Israel and Saudi can buy arms and technology from one another. Israel obviously wants to destroy any possibility of a free Palestinian state, and Saudi wants to destroy any resistance to their own ideological aims to control Yemen (and its considerable resources). The real irony here is that it's Israel's own actions that have damaged any possibility of a 'normalisation' deal between themselves and Saudi, who are now demanding the formation of a Palestinian state if such a deal is to proceed. <br /><br /> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67922238
Nothing that is happening now is about peace. It's all only about money. And so the genocide continues; whilst there is profit in war, there can be no peace.
Nah, have you not seen those preppers? Most are well over 250lbs, that’s enough blubber to see through a winter or two.
Remember the covid lockdowns? They were all out protesting that they couldnt get their hair cut.
I wonder if the future generations would have the legends of raygrll who taught them the skills to survive.
An important consideration if economic calculations are a driving factor I would have thought.
I expect this was a consideration when deciding to launch airstrikes. Its possibly not the approach you want to solving the question but having something come back the other way will alter the Houthis calculations I suspect.
Oddly HMS Diamond was reported as using guns as well. So it may be they deliberately waited to engage the drones with gunfire to avoid using up missiles. That said it was Shapp saying it so he could have just defaulted to using alternate names for the same thing.
having something come back the other way will alter the Houthis calculations I suspect.
I doubt it. The Houthis have been enduring hundreds, possibly thousands, of Saudi airstrikes in the last ten years. It has made no discernable difference and the Saudis appear to have given up.
In fact the evidence suggests that the Houthis welcome the US/UK airstrikes as it bolsters their influence in the region. And my understanding is that as a geurrila army their bases and arms storage are not static so they can easily adapt and relocate.
The recent airstrikes would certainly have been fully expected.
I doubt it. The Houthis have been enduring hundreds, possibly thousands, of Saudi airstrikes in the last ten years. It has made no discernable difference and the Saudis appear to have given up
Over 25,000 strikes/bombings by Saudi forces aided by the UK defence force in the last few years, I doubt many folk on here could name the amount of deaths caused or offer any insight without looking it up
Over 25,000 strikes/bombings by Saudi forces aided by the UK defence force in the last few years, I doubt many folk on here could name the amount of deaths caused or offer any insight without looking it up
What about the other side of the actual civil war in Yemen thats been going on for over a decade, add them in or discount them, or those starving due to the war, are they in your calculations?
The real irony here is that it’s Israel’s own actions that have damaged any possibility of a ‘normalisation’ deal between themselves and Saudi, who are now demanding the formation of a Palestinian state if such a deal is to proceed. (my bold)> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67922238
I read that same article ^^ differently; there isn't an irony, negotiations always included an independent state of Palestine, "[A deal] was close, there is no question. For us, the final end point definitely included nothing less than an independent state of Palestine. So, while we still - going forward after 7 October - believe in normalisation, it does not come at the cost of the Palestinian people," Prince Khalid said. (My bold)
He added: "We were close to normalisation, therefore close to a Palestinian state. One doesn't come without the other. The sequencing, how it is managed, that is what was being discussed."
Negotiations must also include "The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel"
The summary on page23 "VI Conclusions" is sufficient to get an understanding of why the normalisation deal is important
I thought that these were relevant points having brought the subject up in the first place, but now that really is it from me 🙂
I read that same article ^^ differently<br /><br />
I'm sure you did. We all choose to interpret things according to our own agendae. But the reality is that the clause regarding the formation of a Palestinian state could easily have been sidelined in favour of a quick resolution, as such things often are. But now that the Israeli regime has chosen to inflict genocide on the Palestinians, it has become a much larger issue, and bargaining chip for the Saudis. Who will have little genuine compassion or care for the fate of Palestinian people, but will want to use the moral high ground to their advantage; let's not forget that the Saudis still actually hate Israel. So they would see 'forcing' Israel to cede to their demands as a real ideological 'victory'. <br /><br />
there isn’t an irony<br /><br />
Of course there is. Israel's position is now a lot weaker following their genocidal actions. Global support for Israel is evaporating rapidly. <br /><br />
Btw did you know that apparently the Houthis rebels now have the capability to make their own drones at the cost of about £20k each, and the missiles used by the British and French navies to knock them out cost about $1 million each?
Someone, somewhere, is making an awful lot of money right now. And any of us here that have pensions and nvestments, we're probably benefitting indirectly from it all. As innocents are murdered.
"training excercise"
Is that the same thing as a 'special operation'? or is it just more tory double speak?
“training excercise”
It was announced back in September. It coincides with Nordic Response, the largest exercise to be held in the Nordic region; Finland will be taking part as a new NATO member.
It's normal (even the Steadfast Defender name has been used before) apart from its scale
Coincidentally, the UK is taking it's turn as lead nation in NATO’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force in 2024 (Germany in 2023)
But the reality is that the clause regarding the formation of a Palestinian state could easily have been sidelined in favour of a quick resolution, as such things often are
There's some whataboutery going on there. They aren’t idiots, there will never be any long term solution without a plan for a Palestinian state, everyone knows that (including the Israeli government)
I doubt many folk on here could name the amount of deaths caused or offer any insight without looking it up
c.f. Libyan civil war, Syrian civil war, Iraqi war with Isis, Iraqi Insurgency, Iranian-Kurdish conflicts , Turkish-Kurdish conflict
Iran appear to be admitting to firing ballistic missles at Irbil in Iraq and very close to the US consulate in the last hour, seems to move things closer to a bad direction
US/UK missile strikes on Houthis rebels doesn't seem to have had the desired effect.
Expect to pay more for your petrol and other goods, as the price of the IDF killing a couple of hundred Palestinians every day.
Expect to pay more for your petrol and other goods, as the price of the IDF killing a couple of hundred Palestinians every day.
Why oh why are we not surprised ...
Despicable
Sounds like a sensible pragmatic approach from Shell to protect ships, cargos and crews.
In other news, Iran now lobbing missiles over to ****stan.
There’s some whataboutery going on there. They aren’t idiots, there will never be any long term solution without a plan for a Palestinian state, everyone knows that (including the Israeli government)
It isn't 'whataboutery' at all. The Saudis have never cared about the Palestinians; it's purely about Saudi egos to demand Israel accepts a two state solution. The Saudis knew Israel would say no, but ultimately are only really interested in perpetuating the flow of wealth. Israel would perhaps agreed to 'talks', or some obscure future 'peace plan', but nothing would actually have changed.
A two-state 'independent' Palestinian bantustan would be no solution. As SA has shown, the only answer to apartheid is a singular secular democratic state where all citizens are treated equally. Oof, we can't have that can we.
is a singular secular democratic state where all citizens are treated equally.
Is the answer to pretty much most of the issues in most of the states in most of the middle east region, no? The lack of democratic accountability. Israel is ****ed, ranked as "Flawed democracy" although that's debateable. Morocco and Tunisia are "Hybrid Regimes" (whatever that means), and every other country is ranked as "Authoritarian"
working well..
the only answer to apartheid is a singular secular democratic state where all citizens are treated equally.
Do a majority of Palestinians want a secular democratic state? Do a majority of Israelis want a secular democratic state? I don't think the militants on either side are fighting for secular democracy and I don't think either side trusts the other side enough to make it possible. One important reason that it was possible in SA was that Nelson Mandela persuaded Black South Africans that peace was better than vengeance and White South Africans were willing to trust him. I don't see any Mandelas on either side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. All I see is calls for vengeance.
Much the same was said during apartheid SA and Mandela was defined as a 'terrorist' by Thatcher et al.
Even though the Houthis rebels have been operating for about the last 20 years the United States only decided today to designate them as terrorists, despite, as far as I am aware, they haven't actually killed anyone recently.
I guess the definition of terrorist is anyone who threatens US global trade interests.
And awkwardly for the United States what the Houthis are currently demanding appears to be in line with global public opinion, and the United Nations, a ceasefire in Gaza.
How long previously were the Houthis designated terrorists..... a couple of months? It was a last minute decision by Trump before he left office to designate the Houthis rebels as terrorists.
The reality is that for probably 99% of the time they have been involved in armed engagements the Houthis have not been classed as terrorists by the US.
Today's announcement doesn't appear to be connected with a recent terrorist atrocity in which hundreds, or even dozens, have died, but because of the affects of Houthis action on US commerce.
It in effect appears to redefine the term "terrorist".
I guess the definition of terrorist is anyone who threatens US global trade interests.
Isn't it just anyone who is an 'enemy' of Oceania?
<br /><br />The were delisted in Feb 2021 by the Biden administration, becasue of the urgent need to get humanitarian aid to them.<br /><br />
Has that need for humanitarian aid disappeared now?
Today’s announcement doesn’t appear to be connected with a recent terrorist atrocity in which hundreds, or even dozens, have died, but because of the affects of Houthis action on US commerce.
It in effect appears to redefine the term “terrorist”.
Taking their actions on land to one side for a second, the act of launching cruise missiles at a civilian ship is surely intent to conduct a terrorist act?
The only reason it's not happened yet is shear luck. Bulk carriers are big targets that are 95% unmanned, but if one of those missiles hits the accommodation block that's a dozen dead.
Taking their actions on land to one side for a second, the act of launching cruise missiles at a civilian ship is surely intent to conduct a terrorist act?
But isn't it just about perspective and power structures? Western military forces have struck countless civilian 'targets', with countless innocent people dead, carried out extra-judicial killings, terrorised entire nations and regions, yet the T word is never mentioned. Why aren't the Israeli and Saudi military forces and regimes labelled terrorists? Because they're 'our' allies? What if the Houthis see western ships as aiding 'terrorism'? Aren't those ships therefore 'legitimate targets' to them? Who gets to decide, who gets to sit in judgment of all this?
But isn’t it just about perspective and power structures? Western military forces have struck countless civilian ‘targets’, with countless innocent people dead, carried out extra-judicial killings, terrorised entire nations and regions, yet the T word is never mentioned. Why aren’t the Israeli and Saudi military forces and regimes labelled terrorists? Because they’re ‘our’ allies? What if the Houthis see western ships as aiding ‘terrorism’? Aren’t those ships therefore ‘legitimate targets’ to them? Who gets to decide, who gets to sit in judgment of all this?
I'm not saying this in support of western countries and Saudi strikes, but they're all by recognised states, so that's a war crime if the very clear rules of war aren't followed, whereas the Houthi's are not the recognised government of Yeman and therefore are a terrorist organisation engaged in terrorist acts by attacking civilian shipping?
But who gets to define what is, or isn't, 'terrorism'? The USA? The Houthis? Iran? Colombia? Gillian Duffy?
One person's 'terrorist' is another's 'freedom fighter', it's pointless getting hooked up in futile debates about nomenclature. The point is history shows you cannot expect to oppress a people ad infinitum and not get bitten on the bum. I'm being simplistic but when people have f all they have f all to lose, they will fight fearlessly.
One person’s ‘terrorist’ is another’s ‘freedom fighter’,
This - and I think both those terms apply to "non-government" organisations. So the Russian armed forces aren't classed as terrorists even thought they are targeting civilians.
Has that need for humanitarian aid disappeared now?
The US hasn't yet enacted the terrorist designation. The Houthis have 30 days to stop attacking shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden
The designation isn't the same as the one that President Biden revoked in 2021.
In 2021 the Houthis were designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) and a Specially Designated Global Terrorist (SDGT). The FTO designation was the bigger problem for humanitarian aid because it prohibits US citizens from knowingly providing material support or resources. It also prevents aid from being organised within the US and puts restrictions on US financial institutions, which is a massive problem when 70% of world trade is conducted in $.
The SDGT will be enacted in 30 days and is less restrictive.
One person’s ‘terrorist’ is another’s ‘freedom fighter’,
Not looking good for this bloke.
Good podcast with Rory Stewart explaining the situation and why bombing will not help.
The only reason it’s not happened yet is shear luck.
No the reason that the Houthis rebels haven't killed anyone yet is because they haven't set out to kill anyone recently. You can be certain that the Houthis could kill lots of people if they wanted to.
I can't imagine that the Houthis rebels are particularly nice people but right now they have become heroes across the Middle East, and probably in much of the global south.
Jo Biden appears to be on a mission to dramatically reduce United States global influence and its perceived moral authority. He is actively supplying the most sophisticated weapons in the world to a rogue state which is currently carrying out a bloodbath against civilians before the eyes of the world.
And if that wasn't enough to turn public opinion across the Middle East and much of the world he then decides to attack people who have won respect for making a stand against the bloodbath.
Message is clear - Joe Biden will tolerate Arab women and children being slaughtered, although admittedly probably reluctantly, but he definitely will not tolerate the increased commercial costs associated with shipping being rerouted.
What does that say about how much Americans value Arab lives? The Iranian leaders in Tehran must be pissing themselves. And not least because US/UK military strikes will have no discernible effect on the Houthis rebels, just crank up more anti-Western feelings.
I am a Zionist.How Joe Biden’s lifelong bond with Israel shapes foreign policy by Reuters
and
The Israeli army just blew up the University of Gaza because………….
https://twitter.com/PeruginiNic/status/1747730495482310771?s=20
The Israeli army just blew up the University of Gaza because…………
Jeezus, why on earth did they do that? As it was a controlled explosion with 315 mines they obviously had fully secured the building top to bottom, so the usual excuse of "Hamas infrastructure" can't be used.
And who released the clip? Surely the IDF can't be proud of doing that?
At this point the Israeli army are at the stage of turning over rocks, pointing at woodlice and shouting “Hamas”, then blowing it up
In keeping with the thread title...
Following Iran launching missiles and drones into ****stan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67999465
/a>, ****stan has retaliated and conducted strikes inside Iran targeting Baluchi militants.
Missiles killed three women and four children https://www.reuters.com/world/****stan-has-conducted-strikes-inside-iran-afp-report-2024-01-18/
Let's hope that this is confined to these incidents and no further. ****stan, which has one of the largest armies in the region, and Iran could do massive damage to one another
At this point the Israeli army are at the stage of turning over rocks, pointing at woodlice and shouting “Hamas”, then blowing it up
Steady now.....
Plenty of videos of Palestinians being shot whilst being cuffed abs wearing a blindfold, whilst crossing the road with a group of kids and carrying a white flag, whilst walking away and being shot in the back.....
In this case, yes, the US can define “terrorism”. Iran can as well, which is why they’ve launched missiles and drones into ****stan “Iran’s foreign minister said the operation targeted the militant group Jaish al-Adli, which he described as an “Iranian terrorist group” in ****stan.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67999465
/a>Colombia can and the Houthis have designated US and UK shipping a target, so I guess they can too. Gillian Duffy doesn’t have that power though, despite Gordon Brown’s opinion of her
So the definitions are purely political terms decided upon by regimes, then? Regardless of any consensus on such a definition, as in a dictionary. And herein lies the problem; as we saw with the UK government's approach to South Africa and the ANC, a regime can simply decide that any organisation that it deems hostile to its own interests, is a 'terrorist' one. Which doesn't really seem to solve anything. We saw here in the UK, the absurdity of terrorism legislation being used for all sorts of ridiculous reasons, including the writing of poetry, or photographing bus stations.
Jeezus, why on earth did they do that? As it was a controlled explosion with 315 mines they obviously had fully secured the building top to bottom, so the usual excuse of “Hamas infrastructure” can’t be used.
For anyone genuinely wanting to understand why atrocities such as the genocide we are witnessing right now happen, and how such acts are publicly validated and supported, then this film really is a must watch. Situations that are born of collective and inherited trauma, are far more complex and difficult to resolve than mere economic imperialism. <br /><br /> https://www.israelismfilm.com/
Program just starting on BBC2 now about the impending nuclear apocalypse. 👍
The treatment of this Israeli professor reminds me of another time in history Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public (link to guardian newspaper)
Was an Israeli lad on the radio the other day. 18 years old. Got called up. Refused and ended up in jail. Comes out, gets called up again... 🤔
Was an Israeli lad on the radio the other day. 18 years old. Got called up. Refused and ended up in jail.<br /><br />
There’s a number of interviews with him on YouTube,
He should convert to Haredi Judaism.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-draft-ultraorthodox-military-21b03570632662cce175e47097665c66
Here we go again...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yemen-news-houthi-airstrikes-b2482939.html
What I find really interesting, is that China are very silent about this... it's a major trade route and China needs to sell goods as much as 'the west' needs to buy them... it's a symbiotic relationship...
Are they just sitting back and watching the fire works?
Are they just sitting back and watching the fire works?
They need trade open, they need attention away from Taiwan. Tough call.
In other news, BBC reporting on suggestions North Korea is feeling left out and may do something nuts. Weird times.
What I find really interesting, is that China are very silent about this… it’s a major trade route and China needs to sell goods as much as ‘the west’ needs to buy them… it’s a symbiotic relationship…<br />Are they just sitting back and watching the fire works?
The costs to Chinese exporters have increased and their economy was already suffering along with those of everyone else.
I don't think that we'll hear much unless the world decided to realign its suppliers to other countries that are closer. A two-week delay in shipments is more palatable and cheaper if you can knock a week or more off by using manufacturers in Turkey and India, for example.
I'd be very surprised if China wanted to be associated, even in the most indirect way imaginable, with US-proposed UK-backed action. They're more likely to have a quiet chat with Iran, backed up by interested parties such as Egypt who must be losing a fortune in Suez Canal Authority charges
and may do something
So anything we, or the US or NATO do before NK does anything will be completely justified. Not the best narrative to promote peace or dialog.
ITV interviews a man in a group waving a white flag at Israeli forces in Gaza. Once the interview is finished, an Israeli sniper shoots him dead.
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1749927301444174143?s=20
Ernie, please would you give a clue to your youtube links
"...one of the poorest countries in the world...there has been famine..." and yet they're managing to spaff dozens of missiles on international shipping.
Why is it only "mothers" who die in these conflicts? Two per day according to the good Doctor Francois, who has only seen a couple of guys in dinghies threatening warships...
In other news...
https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/ it's still 90 seconds to midnight on the final countdown
Why is it only “mothers” who die in these conflicts?
You obviously watched a different clip to me timba.
In the clip that I watched Myriam François did not say that only mothers die in these conflicts.
What Myriam François was doing in my clip was to both emphasis how indiscriminate the widespread killing of civilians is and the real human cost.
Young children experiencing the deaths of their mothers through bombings and missiles strikes is beyond tragic. That is exactly what is happening currently in Gaza. Although maybe the luckier ones are dying with their parents.
Another gazan waving a white flag being shot,
According to CNN - well-known supporters of Hamas, probably.
So it turns out that the Houthis are still not following with the script written for them by the US and the UK.
Bearing in mind that this was perfectly predictable what was the oil tanker doing in the Red Sea?
Obviously circumventing the Red Sea adds massively to costs but there is really no other choice.......other than the US and the UK pressurising Israel to comply with the Houthis demand of a ceasefire and allowing food and medicine into Gaza, but apparently that is a definite no-no.
One does have to wonder why all large ships are not just going around south Africa, rather than via the Red sea.
Bearing in mind that this was perfectly predictable what was the oil tanker doing in the Red Sea?
"The tanker was carrying Russian naphtha bought below the price cap in line with G7 sanctions, a Trafigura spokesperson said." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/vessel-on-fire-after-being-struck-off-coast-of-yemen-amid-houthi-threats
The rules are that you don't attack allies, such as Russia, Iran, China, etc. It's yet another dangerous mistake by the Houthis attacking a ship in international waters carrying what is probably an extract of crude oil and that could be highly volatile just because Trafigura have a London office.
This demonstrates the point that the Houthis aren't protesting the Israel-Gaza situation and are engaged in terrorism
You obviously watched a different clip to me timba.
I used your link. I didn't watch beyond the halfway point because it was so obviously one-sided.
"...a couple of guys in dinghies..." is plainly untrue if you look at the incidents including the Trafigura example that you're discussing above.
I get that you love a good argument but at least allow some facts to cloud your judgement
With all due respect to both you Klunk, and the Guardian, that’s old news. It was reported a while ago in the local East Anglian press that American nuclear weapons were coming (back). Although with the possible return of Donald Trump to the White House things might change.
Russian state representatives have been openly threatening Europe with nuclear weapons since they invaded Ukraine, e.g.
February 2022, President Putin, "“Top officials in leading NATO countries have allowed themselves to make aggressive comments about our country, therefore I hereby order the Minister of Defense and the chief of the General Staff to place the Russian Army Deterrence Force on combat alert,” Putin said in a televised meeting with top Russian defense officials on Sunday." https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/politics/russia-nuclear-threats-putin-what-matters/index.html
July 2023, deputy chairman of the Security Council Mevdevyev, ""Just imagine that the offensive… in tandem with NATO, succeeded and ended up with part of our land being taken away. Then we would have to use nuclear weapons by virtue of the stipulations of the Russian Presidential Decree," said Medvedev, the deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, in a Telegram post" https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/31/europe/medvedev-russia-nuclear-weapons-intl-hnk/index.html
These are powerful people with the means to carry out their threats. What deterrent action did the world think the "west" would take in response?
The Doomsday Clock was at a record 17 minutes to midnight in 1991, which coincided with the breakup of the USSR. Granted that the criteria have changed, but it's been at 90 seconds to midnight in both 2023 and 2024. For context it was 7 minutes to midnight in 1947 when it started ticking.
The rules are that you don’t attack allies, such as Russia, Iran, China, etc. It’s yet another dangerous mistake by the Houthis attacking a ship in international waters carrying what is probably an extract of crude oil and that could be highly volatile just because Trafigura have a London office.
This demonstrates the point that the Houthis aren’t protesting the Israel-Gaza situation and are engaged in terrorism
What a strange assumption. Who came up with this "allies" theory?
And yes it has everything to do with the current slaughter of civilians the Israelis are carrying out in Gaza.
Support for the Palestinians is deeply embedded in the DNA of the Houthis and their current blockade of the Red Sea wasn't occurring before Israel launched its war machine on the people of Gaza.
Btw if you call not killing people 'engaging in terrorism' what do you call what the IDF are doing?
Just because nobody has died (yet) that doesn't stop it being terrorism by any definition. They're targeting civilian vessels with the express aim of causing economic disruption with no regard for those on board. Naptha is horrible stuff, I sailed with folk who knew folk that died on the British Trent.
Used to be pirates you worried about going through there, fire hoses aren't going to do shit against missiles.
IDF is a whole other level but it's not a competition.
@squirrelking, get with the program, the houthis are fun loving freedom fighters on the side of the righteous, forget about their previous attacks on other sovereign states, or the civil war in Yemen that they have been partaking in over the last decade or so that's cost tens of thousands of lives, they are good guys now, so just stop trying to call them terrorists!
Support for the Palestinians is deeply embedded in the DNA of the Houthis
"God is the greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"
Something is deeply embedded in Houthi DNA, but I'm not sure it's specifically support for Palestinians.
IDF is a whole other level but it’s not a competition.
I totally agree - the IDF are on a whole different level and it is not a competition.
But the question remains, if we are going to throw around allegations of "terrorism" with gay abandon what would you call what the IDF are doing, genocide?
The actions of the Houthis and the IDF are connected. It is rather obvious who the IDF are terrorising but a little less obvious who the Houthis are terrorising.
Btw the Houthis are not currently designated as terrorists by the UK government. Interesting that some on here should take a harder line on the issue than a Tory government.
the houthis are fun loving freedom fighters on the side of the righteous, forget about their previous attacks on other sovereign states, or the civil war in Yemen that they have been partaking in over the last decade or so that’s cost tens of thousands of lives, they are good guys now, so just stop trying to call them terrorists!
It is attitudes like that that help to explain the long and inevitable decline of Western influence.
The Houthis are not very nice people. But their blockade of the Red Sea in support of a ceasefire in Gaza and access to food and medicine for its inhabitants has widespread support throughout the region and much of the Global South.
The US and the UK really seem to be on a mission to destroy Western influence. Everything that has been done in the last 20 odd years seems to be geared towards that. And now new nations such as South Africa are emerging as world leaders with moral authority.
Obviously that is not the aim of the US and the UK, but it is a consequence of preoccupation with domestic public opinion and winning elections.