[Closed] Workplace Pension Scheme - is it worth enrolling?

pay in now would be my advice and if you get free money from the company then that's a plus, it'll cost you a lot more to get the same out if you leave it.

(I am not a financial adviser)

i've always paid into pensions through work and just treated it a bit like a tax, as it is deducted at source I don't really notice it. I wouldn't trust myself to set up, and pay into, another pension pot.

free money

Depends I guess I've paid in 400 a month for 18 years and the government have just torn the entire agreement up. I now have to pay more for 8 years extra to get less. If if I were starting out I wouldn't join its safer but worth less under your pillow

It's free money from both the government and your employer - your employer puts their bit in and the government puts the tax that came off your bit back in as well. If it was phrased like this, would you say yes or no:

And yes, the rates are going up between now and 2018.

What tthew said, plus you need to save enough to make it worthwhile.

The jury is out on the ISA/Pension question now. With the new pension freedoms, the rationale behind saving into an ISA has diminished somewhat, especially if you want to use it to generate long term income at some stage in your life. If you are saving up for some sort of capital expenditure however (paying off your mortgage etc) then an ISA is likely to be the better bet.

The new AE enrolment thing - take the tax relief and employer contributions but make sure you think hard about how much you are putting in. It is better than nothing but if you simply stick to minimum contributions you may find a sting in the tale when you retire. By having private pensions albeit ones with minimal values, some people will find they are excluded from certain benefits (pension credits for example). This is my understanding based on current legislation and I could be wrong but it is worth checking.

Retirement may seem like a long way away but it sort of rushes at you and before you know it......

I opted in. No had a pension for a few years, so time I started something, at least..

Works 1% rise to 4% in 2018. I'm paying in 3% voluntarily, but I'll bump that up year on year I reckon

It's not great, but I have another pension for another work, so least it's 2 now.

I reckon I'm actually going to have to start thinking seriously about it over the next wee while.

Reckoning if I just build up pension till I can take out 6-10k per year (I've no idea what my current stuff will pay out tbh) when I'm 55 and just retire to a beach in thailand is about the soundest thought I have at the moment! 😆

I've spent my life saving diddly, so reckon some alternative pension plans are in order! Stuffed if I'm waiting till 68 to reitre!

Depends I guess I've paid in 400 a month for 18 years and the government have just torn the entire agreement up. I now have to pay more for 8 years extra to get less. If I were starting out I wouldn't join its safer but worth less under your pillow

Then you'd be an idiot. These schemes are defined contribution schemes so the money is yours and the only restriction is that you have to wait until retirement age to get your hands on it. Whilst your pension rules have changed (and yeah that's bit shit) I'll wager that they are still worth more than a defined contribution scheme with the same contributions over the same time period.

The average pension fund at retirement is I think, sub £40k.

At age 65, a male has a life expectancy of about 23 years (increasing all the time).

All you need to do is work out how long £40k would last.

Oh yes, by the way, don't forget the new flat rate state pension that comes in in 2017. They say you will get £150pw, but vast numbers of people won't. I read something yesterday that said if you had contracted out at any time in your working life, you would be more likely to get £115pw not £150.

If you are in doubt about your state pension entitlement, get a BR19 online, fill it in, pop it in the post and you will get a free projection (of your state pension). It is a good place to start your pension planning.

Opt in, it's free money from your employer if nothing else

[i]Apparently I can pay in 1% of my earnings (before tax I think) and the company pays in 2%. This then increases to 5% and 4% in three years.[/i]

They are the bog basic minimums, don't make the mistake of assuming that they're enough to give you a decent amount of money at the end. Auto-enrollment is a great principle, but I'm concerned that it goves people the impression that they're going to be fine when they retire, when the amount they're actually saving towards their retirement through the schemes is really not sufficient to acheive any kind of decent income in the future.

The rule of thumb is that you should take your age and halve it. That's the percentage of your gross income that you should be saving towards your retirement. In your case, that would be 15%.

Usual balls about earlier you start and employer giving you free money, tax benefits etc are all true. better still if you have any kind of additional voluntary contribution scheme (AVCs) available.

Fill your boots but don't lose sight of today and spending money on fun stuff too.

AVCs don't apply for defined contribution schemes, they were generally for people with final salary arrangements. The idea is sound though, save as much as you can but get the balance right. Live for today a bit too.

Also, without putting a downer on it, how's your dad, and grandad? If no-one in your family makes it to 70, it'd be an optimistic bet to load up a big pension pot and AVCs never to get your chance to spend it. If your tribe are all still dancing into their eighties and nineties, get saving!

Think of it as a way of getting free money. If you earn an average salary of £25K then 1% is £250 per year but it only costs you £200 as the government pays the £50 and your employer is putting in £500. So for a cost of £200 to you you've got £750 in your pension. Try putting in a higher percentage if you can. A rough guideline that you hear is half your age when you started paying into a pension as a percentage of your salary.

The Workplace Pension was put in because we have a major pensions crisis - hardly anyone has saved enough to retire on and the current taxpayer (us) is going to have to foot the bill and still these people will be living in penury...

I would make no assumptions about a state pension existing in much form in twenty years time so if you want to die in poverty then spent your cash now and don't save for a pension.

I have sympathy with those who say pensions so far have not paid out too well (e.g. me - saved for 16 years and I'm forecast £3k per year to live off) and those who say living costs e.g. rents and house prices leave nothing left to save) but really, we have no option IMO but to make our own provision.

A lot of people are expecting to use their houses as the pensions. But if they all do it around the same time then you'll not see prices hold as a big chunk of supply hits the market, so they may be shocked at how successful this policy is at providing a lump sum.

Me, I'm going to carry on saving as best I can and then emigrate to a warmer country with cheaper cost of living in the hope of stretching my savings out till I pop my clogs

I think the only people that will be comfortable in retirement in 20 years time will be the rich, the politicians and the long term unemployed

I'm in the same boat, broadly speaking, as firestarter, but even so it would be daft not to carry on with it.

These schemes are defined contribution schemes so the money is yours and the only restriction is that you have to wait until retirement age to get your hands on it.

Although the final rate of tax you'll pay is completely in the hands of future Governments, so it's not totally risk free. Eg they've just dropped the total lifetime amount for pensions and introduced a higher tax rate for anyone over that, and I'd expect these to both get worse over time as governments look to find more ways of increasing tax take (i.e. lower limit and higher tax rate).

In the case of the OP, if your employer is matching your contributions you'd be a fool not to pay into the scheme.

thanks for the advice all; sounds like I may aswell take it on.

I always join Company pension schemes and pay at least enough to get the maximum employer contribution. Anything above that I would think hard about investing elsewhere. If an employer is offering money I would hate to turn it down.

Although the final rate of tax you'll pay is completely in the hands of future Governments, so it's not totally risk free.

Well nothing is totally risk free and the same can be said for any savings or investment.

Eg they've just dropped the total lifetime amount for pensions and introduced a higher tax rate for anyone over that, and I'd expect these to both get worse over time as governments look to find more ways of increasing tax take (i.e. lower limit and higher tax rate).

Yeah but the current limit isn't likely to affect that many people as it's now £1million rather than £1.5million. Ironically the people it will affect most is anyone on a generous final salary pension!

Anything above that I would think hard about investing elsewhere.

Tax relief can make the difference, especially if you are a higher rate payer, but yeah it's something to think carefully about.

[url= http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21676792-why-more-britons-are-working-themselves-uber-conundrum ]1 in 6 over 50s can't afford to retire[/url]

Interesting article in The Economist this morning about self-employment, and in particular the growth amongst people above retirement age. The 1 in 6 stat is a bit scary and suggests massive underprovision in pensions.

The proportion of over-65s who are self-employed has sharply risen too. This may be down to worries about financial security in retirement, says Laura Gardiner of the Resolution Foundation, a think-tank. In recent years British pension funds have seen measly investment returns, thanks in part to rock-bottom interest rates. Britain has one of the lowest “replacement rates” in the OECD, a club of mostly rich countries; on average its pensions replace only 40% of pre-retirement earnings. In a survey by Saga, which sells services to the elderly, [b]one in six over-50s said they had been forced to put off retirement indefinitely[/b].

1 in 6 over 50s can't afford to retire

Interesting article in The Economist this morning about self-employment, and in particular the growth amongst people above retirement age. The 1 in 6 stat is a bit scary and suggests massive underprovision in pensions.

Or,
5 out of 6 over 50s can afford to retire.

Not nearly so scary. In fact, a surprisingly high proportion!

David, you're 30, you'll be working till you die. Or at least into your 70's, which will probably kill you.

the money you pay into a pension now isn't really ring-fenced for you, it just falls into the black hole of debt that's paying for people already in retirement, or about to.

You do have to pay in to play the game, but you/we are relying on little more than luck and goodwill that future governments/employers will actually pay our pensions on the terms that we signed up to.

Every year, i get a pension statement that reminds me that neither the government, nor my employer have no intention of acting in 'goodwill'.

Really, we don't have much choice. But we can expect to get dry-bummed, again and again over the next few decades. Finally being forced to our knees, **-*** to death, and pushed into a mass grave.

that'll be £200/month please.

They are the bog basic minimums, don't make the mistake of assuming that they're enough to give you a decent amount of money at the end.

This is key.

For reference I pay over 20% of my salary into my pension with an excellent employer contribution and still don't forecast living a particularly affluent old age. It means my toy money is severely curtailed in comparison to my more live-for-today friends but I think it's important. It doesn't have to be a pension of course, there are other ways of saving for your retirement (property and buy to lets, shares, isas etc etc) but to do nothing is foolhardy unless you plan an early death.

Currently you need a £30k pension pot to generate £1k of pension (give or take)...

[i]1 in 6 over 50s can't afford to retire[/i]

I'll bet it's higher than that as most folk don't actually understand how either private or the state pensions (and NI) work, and probably nearer 1 in 2 for the under 40's.

You do have to pay in to play the game, but you/we are relying on little more than luck and goodwill that future governments/employers will actually pay our pensions on the terms that we signed up to.

Why not take control of the situ. Get a SIPP and manage your own pension! Reduce the fees you pay and if it all goes tits up you'll only have yourself to blame!

This year and last I've paid 50% into my pension mainly as I'm concerned about the upcoming pension review, to be announced in Nov, which rumour has it may remove tax relief completely. Hence, I've been making the most of the tax relief whilst we still have it!

Get a SIPP and manage your own pension! Reduce the fees you pay and if it all goes tits up you'll only have yourself to blame!

Very little in it fee wise, a Stake Holder pension has to be below 1% and most are less than 0.75%. A SIPP will cost you more once you factor in fees for the funds you buy as well as fees for the SIPP.

Very little in it fee wise, a Stake Holder pension has to be below 1% and most are less than 0.75%. A SIPP will cost you more once you factor in fees for the funds you buy as well as fees for the SIPP.

But do you get to choose the funds or other investments in the Stakeholder scheme?

put in the maximum you can, or at least the amount that triggers the employers largest contribution

I can opt out if I want though.

And you will be opted back in in 3 years as i understand it............

Depends I guess I've paid in 400 a month for 18 years and the government have just torn the entire agreement up. I now have to pay more for 8 years extra to get less. If if I were starting out I wouldn't join its safer but worth less under your pillow

Then I suspect you are/have been in a very generous scheme. Would you like to share the details?

Are company schemes safe though? Are they ring-fenced now, so another Maxwell can't dib into them?

They are regulated tightly but thats not to say the investments perform that well. Give the tax free nature of your contributions plus any employer contributions they would have to perform spectacularly badly for it be a bad investment. Most actually preform quite well.
For a higher rate tax payer you should at least invest enough to maximise your employers contributions. Maybe think about ISA's after that to reduce any possible tax post retirement.

As I understand it, company schemes will be run by a 3rd party provider as they are now. What the government has done is make sure all companies offer a pension so that more people can save for their retirement (because they know the state pension is barely enough to live on).

That's more important now as it is highly likely that todays youth will not be able to rely on increasing property value to fund their retirement. There is a vast amount of people who down-sized their home to free up capital for their retirement due to the massive increases in house prices over the last 40 years and that won't happen again.

My advice is to get a pension early, I know it's more fun to buy beer and bike bits in your 20s but that is the time that pensions need to be started in order to maximise their benefits.

The state pension doesn't buy much now and won't get any more generous as time goes on, so I would advise anyone to plan for their retirement using whatever method they want, the important thing it to make sure you have a plan.

Depends I guess I've paid in 400 a month for 18 years and the government have just torn the entire agreement up. I now have to pay more for 8 years extra to get less. If if I were starting out I wouldn't join its safer but worth less under your pillow

Then I suspect you are/have been in a very generous scheme. Would you like to share the details?

Firefighters pension scheme, used to require 30years service at 11% contributions for a pension based on final salary, which would have been sufficient to get by on (I know my dad has been retired a few years now, he's not living in luxury but the basics are taken care of.)

Will now require 40 years of 11.7%(currently, likely to rise) contributions for a pension based on career average rather than final salary that will still pay out considerably less than the old scheme.

In London (the brigade I serve in) people are leaving the pension in their droves, if I didn't already have 20 years worth of contributions invested then I would leave as well, because it's not an invested scheme this is likely to cost then taxpayer more than the old scheme, i.e. lots of retired people claiming but no bugger paying in.

[i]In London (the brigade I serve in) people are leaving the pension in their droves, if I didn't already have 20 years worth of contributions invested then I would leave as well, because it's not an invested scheme this is likely to cost then taxpayer more than the old scheme, i.e. lots of retired people claiming but no bugger paying in. [/i]

But the 20 years you've already got can stay there, with the accrued benefits. From now you need to work out is it better to stay in or leave, and I'm pretty sure you'll stay unless the Brigade will pay the employer contributions into a private scheme - either way, it's a simple calculation.

Given the tax free nature of your contributions plus any employer contributions they would have to perform spectacularly badly for it be a bad investment. Most actually preform quite well.

This is exactly my opinion - I put in 5% which is matched by my employer.
I know it isn't enough (I'm 42 - and have only been doing it 9 years) but to be honest, I'd rather spend my money giving the kids everything I need for the next few years.

Both my Grandads were dead before 70 due to heart problems, so I don't think i'm going to need enough for 30+ years of retirement!

At a recent school reunion, I was amazed how many of my old class mates had no pension provision at all.

Firefighters pension scheme,

I expect you pay circa 10+% personal contribution depending on salary.
What % does your employer pay in ?

people are leaving the pension in their droves

Why?

IMO when younger best to worry more about saving up/paying for a suitable property to live in then switch to paying into a pension - may as well wait until a higher rate tax payer anyway. Of course take full advantage of all contributions an employer is willing to make though.

Maybe one day the higher rate tax benefit will go from pension contributions? Makes sense to take advantage of it while its there for those that earn enough.

But do you get to choose the funds or other investments in the Stakeholder scheme?

You can yes, the available range will depend on the Stakeholder provider and what they offer.

Maybe one day the higher rate tax benefit will go from pension contributions?

Could be in a few weeks if the rumours are to be believed. Pension review reports in November...

http://citywire.co.uk/money/hargreaves-game-is-up-for-higher-rate-tax-relief-on-pensions/a844004

My advice is to get a pension early, I know it's more fun to buy beer and bike bits in your 20s but that is the time that pensions need to be started in order to maximise their benefits

This x1000. You need the cumulative interest to get anything worth having and this only comes after years of being invested.

I plotted out one of mine the other day, for the first few years it barely broke even, but over time has been doing better and better...

[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/678/21787431694_57ff56d630.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/678/21787431694_57ff56d630.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zchho3 ]Slide1[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

I look forward to hearing the details of the firefighters scheme. I suspect even the recent changes make it extremely attractive as is the teachers one. I am also interested in why anyone would want to leave it.

You need the cumulative interest to get anything worth having and this only comes after years of being invested.

Yeah but paying off debt is good too - depends on the interest rate. At what rate would you be willing to borrow to put into a pension?

Yeah but paying off debt is good too - depends on the interest rate

Agreed - we have a hooooge mortgage at the moment, which i'd like to get down a bit before we start loading up the pension contributions.

Surfer - don't get me wrong even with the scheme changes it's still a worthwhile scheme [b]IF[/b] you manage to maintain the fitness/physical ability to keep going until your a minimum of 60.

People are leaving because of the in-flexibility of it, if you leave before the full term then you can't transfer it any where it is just frozen until 67, and many people are doubtful that they will still be in the job when they're 60.

So for example if you are found un-fit for work through a non work related illness i.e. cancer you will lose your job and get no pension, people would rather invest their cash in property or a more flexible private scheme.

mudshark - Member
Maybe one day the higher rate tax benefit will go from pension contributions? Makes sense to take advantage of it while its there for those that earn enough

It could be sooner than you think. Some reckon next year. It is arguably unfair that the wealthiest savers get the vast majority of the pension tax relief. There are rumours that it might go to a standard rate of 33% relief for all taxpayers. Save 2 get one free?

http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/news/govt-draws-up-plans-to-axe-higher-rate-pension-tax-relief/a831204

HL have been saying this for a few years now but it suited me to wack in a chunk of cash so I went with it. Got enough in there now so sticking to ISAs for flexibility for the moment.

People are leaving because of the in-flexibility of it, if you leave before the full term then you can't transfer it any where it is just frozen until 67, and many people are doubtful that they will still be in the job when they're 60

Thats rubbish. Why would you leave a scheme that is head and shoulders better than anything you could get elsewhere. The fact that you cant move it means nothing. Why would you choose to move to an inferior scheme or a SIPP given the benefits that it offers.
I have 10 years of a final salary scheme from many years ago. I think I could move it but I would have to stupid to do it given it offers a fantastic (in relation to what I put into it not in monetary terms) pension payment. It has grown each year even though I havent contributed for almost 20 years and I suspect yours is similar. Stop whining it is far better than the majority of people are ever likely to get. If your mates decide they want more "flexibility" good luck to them.

look forward to hearing the details of the firefighters scheme. I suspect even the recent changes make it extremely attractive as is the teachers one. I am also interested in why anyone would want to leave it.

I suspect as firefighters dont get paid much putting a big whack into a pension is hard. Crazy as it seems I know many teachers who dont pay into the teachers pension for exactly the same reasons and teachers get more than firefighters each month (I imagine, dont know for sure tbh). Its crazy but I suppose house prices have meant a teacher or a furefighter might not be able to afford to buy a home and pay into a pension.

Lots of people dont get paid much and lots of people cant afford to get on the housing ladder. What they put into a pension is their decision. It doesnt detract from what is a very generous scheme, particularly teachers.

One thing is sure if you do not do something about retirement YOU will be the one that suffers.

. It doesnt detract from what is a very generous scheme, particularly teachers

I didnt say it wasnt I was trying to explain why people might not pay in as you said you couldnt understand why they wouldnt. But it appears you are just trying to hide your envy behind something else so feel free to get it off your chest.

I suspect as firefighters dont get paid much

[b]Firefighter[/b]
Trainee £22,027
Development £22,933
Competent £29,345

They're pension has been messed about with as has pretty much every public sector, they even got mine in the end with another change. It's not as good as it was meant to be but still pretty good, just very annoying after 26 years of paying in they can come along and change it.

I do think retrospectively changing pension terms for public sector workers is pretty immoral. Shame it's not illegal.

Surfer - I wasn't aware that I was whining, mine is staying put, but most people who join the job now aren't joining the pension, that's a fact, at least where I work, and I think more than half who have been in for five years or less have decided to leave, part of the reason they give that if the government can just come along and make changes this time with impunity then they'll probably do it several more times again before they get to retire. People want more control of their own money and don't trust the government to do right by them.

If changes do occur to your pension what you have already gained is not lost. If you subscribe to the conspiracy theory approach to life then your heading for a poor retirement. The prudent do the best with the cards they are delt. Life's like that.

I do think retrospectively changing pension terms for public sector workers is pretty immoral. Shame it's not illegal.

Not just public sector workers.
The S****horpe steel workers thought they'd be comfortable in retirement, only to find their employer had spent their pension pot on coke and ores...

But it appears you are just trying to hide your envy behind something else so feel free to get it off your chest.

Envy no, and if they are that poor that firefighters choose not to enrol then what have I got to be envious of? I think as we both know these are extremely generous schemes however they are less generous than they used to be.

Get something off my chest? absolutely. I benefit from an extremely good pension scheme I just get tired of this constant complaining and misinformation from those in the public sector about the poor state of their pensions. They are less generous than they used to be but so are many others and private sector pension schemes have also been raided and retrospectively changed.

This thread isnt about those with privileged pension arrangements it is about someone who needs to know some "facts" about how pensions work, and the benefits of investing. If firefighters want to give up the offer of "free" money along with other benefits because they feel that that free money will be worth a little less in future then that is up to them. I think it is a poor decision.

edit: What Pawsy bear said

People want more control of their own money and don't trust the government to do right by them.

If you mean by "control" the option to give up on contributions from their employer then thats up to them. I would like to see the "guaranteed" alternative that is going to provide a more lucrative outcome at a lower cost in 40 years.

I just get tired of this constant complaining and misinformation from those in the public sector about the poor state of their pensions

I dont see many/anyone saying the pensions are not good but like so many in the private sector you seem to only see the pension and not the overall renumeration package.

I dont see many/anyone saying the pensions are not good but like so many in the private sector you seem to only see the pension and not the overall renumeration package.

Then you are not reading this thread and you are being deliberately selective. Bazz is saying exactly that.
This thread is about pensions it is not about the "overall remuneration package" so stay on track.

When public sector pensions change, do they transfer everything over to the new terms?

They never used too, I have 8 yrs frozen in a civil service 'classic' scheme that is worth a small fortune compared to what I put in. That's based on 1/60ths and index linked final salary.

When public sector pensions change, do they transfer everything over to the new terms?

Some do yes. I didn't because of the years I had I never got caught on the previous changes. The 2015 I did but it means I can keep my previous pension on the old skill then start on the new one.

This thread is about pensions it is not about the "overall remuneration package" so stay on track.

Please refer back to your question about why firefighters were dropping out or not joining the scheme and my answer. It also seems obvious to me that when considering the option to join a pension you have to consider if you can aford to.

but like so many in the private sector

What makes you think I work in the private sector?

t also seems obvious to me that when considering the option to join a pension you have to consider if you can aford to

Of course it does but that does not detract from the generosity of the pension scheme and that is not amongst the reasons given by those who work in the sector is it?
We were 4 responses in to the original question before a public sector worked was complaining about their circumstances. I would like to see the detail of that and maybe we can compare that to the vast majority of private sector workers to make a judgement.

is not amongst the reasons given by those who work in the sector is it?

It is amongst ones I work with.

but like so many in the private sector
What makes you think I work in the private sector?

I dont know where you work, but you have view like many in the private sector.

AA you are ignoring the OP's question. You are choosing to ignore the firefighters on here who have made their opinions clear (yet you know better about their reasons in spite of what they tell you) as you know better.
I think we can conclude that even under changed conditions these offer significantly better value than almost anything in the private sector.

I dont know where you work, but you have view like many in the private sector.

And now you are just making stuff up 🙂 maybe the "view" of those you refer to in the private sector is valid, have you considered that?

Surfer tou seem like a very angry oerson. I wasnt responding to the op I was responding to you when you questioned why fire fighters might not pay into the scheme. Since then you have just appeared to be spoiling for a fight.

Characterising me as "angry" is a nice "passive/aggressive" response and a good diversion technique AA. I am not "angry" at all and as I explained I am not "envious" either but I am interested in comparing schemes given at least two firefighters have come on here and complained about theirs.

How does your scheme stack up?

Hey all I tried to do was suggest a reason why fire fighters might not pay in. I have no idea how my scheme stacks up. A financial advisor said it was very good I havent really looked into it. Maybe you can enlighten us. Not sure how it helps the op or the discussion though. I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to divert you from either.

Characterising me as "angry" is a nice

Wasnt meant to be

[i]I would like to see the detail of that and maybe we can compare that to the vast majority of private sector workers to make a judgement. [/i]

That'll soon be easy. We'll be mostly on 8% maximum of salary+overtime+bonus etc (that is, upto £36561 - £42385-£5824).

Which is 4% employee, 3% employer and 1% tax-relief.

So 8% of the average earnings, currently £27k for 40 years, probably works out at a pension of £5k 'earning power' (taking out inflation).

I dont understand that BR. Can you clarify it?

Employee contribution?
Employer contribution?
Benefits in service?
Retirement details ( I understand you are forced to retire at 60?)
Qualifying years?
Is it now "career average" as oppose to final salary?

Cheers.

I dont see many/anyone saying the pensions are not good but like so many in the private sector you seem to only see the pension and not the overall renumeration package.

Then you are not reading this thread and you are being deliberately selective. Bazz is saying exactly that.

Morning surfer, I think you may be mis-representing me there, I never said that our pensions were poor, in fact I agree with your assessment that they used to be very generous and now they are only moderately generous, that is why my money will continue to go into my pension.

What I was doing was firstly explaining the changes to the scheme and then later explaining why so many people are leaving. FWIW I think those leaving are foolish, that said being on the inside I can totally see why people are angry when you hear how government ministers portray our pension arrangements in the press to the wider public compared to the reality.

I think many of them will later in life regret their anger inspired reactions, however if people continue to leave the scheme then it will become totally unworkable and will either have to be propped up wholly by the taxpayer or collapse.

I honestly believe that this country needs some strong laws around pensions that cover both public and private now that they have become a necessity rather than a luxury and many people seem to not entirely trust the people running them.

[quote=surfer ]I dont understand that BR. Can you clarify it?
Employee contribution?
Employer contribution?
Benefits in service?
Retirement details ( I understand you are forced to retire at 60?)
Qualifying years?
Is it now "career average" as oppose to final salary?
Cheers.

Here's a PDF of the plan.

https://www.yourpensionservice.org.uk/web/viewdoc.asp?id=120876

It's the new Govt pension scheme for everyone.

As eventually everyone, in the private sector at least, will be on it. Unless an employer specifically wants to offer more, but I reckon you'll find this will be the new 'bottom' line.

Pensions are easy really. If you want a pension somewhere near what you've been earning you'll need to constantly be investing half your age as a percentage of your earnings. So at 20 y/o, you need 10% going in. Once you get to 50 y/o, it's 25%. etc.

Few folk ever manage this level of investment, and even few manage it for a long period - but this is really what is needed to finance a DB scheme.

I appear to have missed a lot here 😉 I'm staying in mine because although what I have in is protected now it isn't if I leave. Yes I'd still get it but the rules and worth would be changed if I leave.

Problem is as buzz said earlier if u get Ill and have to leave I have no pension

Also it's been changed (for the final time) twice now since I've been in how many more times will it change. It's been suggested that if the pension scheme collapses then it will be easy for government to get rid with privatisation but who knows. I know I'll be lucky retire while there is still a national fire service as we know it

Take the free money and opt in.

That is unless you need the money more now. At 30 years of age, just stick it in an accumulation tracker (if you get the choice), sit back, and don't overthink it.