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Middle daughter, 21, has quite a decent grounding and experience in Hospitality, particularly bar work, and she’s a dab hand at cocktail/mixology…
Perhaps a bit of “mmmmm” on her part, but working on a cruise ship came to mind, for a year or two. She is currently working at a nice bar, but it’s a zero hours contract, which is a bit frustrating, but fairly common. I suspect, once winter hits and the bar trade drops off, she might be in a pickle with hours.
So, is cruise ship work a fixed contract, rolling. I sort of have an idea that it’s not great pay, but most of your costs are covered and you might get to see a bit of the world. And a nice bar on the boat should be a fairly pleasant experience. I might be waaaaay off the mark.
Anyone done it, or know anyone that has? Happy to be entirely put off so brutally honest is fine. It’s her dream being squashed…
If she has proven to herself that she can tolerate having to be polite to the same obnoxious drunk people day in day out pretending to be their friend then why not?
Sounds like a fun thing to try at that age to me. Nothing to lose and some fun and life experience to gain. She has the skills by the sound of it, I think the other main consideration is how she is with homesickness and being away from friends and family for extended periods. Some people thrive in those situations and make lots of new friends, but some don't especially at a young age if they've not been away before.
My lad knows a couple of musicians who have done a year or two on cruise ships. Not great pay, a little claustrophobic, relationships can be "interesting" and not as glamorous as you'd hope, but not a bad way to spend a year or two.
Back in the day I was offered a job on one... and turned it down. It was a US line, 6 months on, 6 weeks off. Having chatted to a few crew dudes since then, I found out that the first 6 months pay gets spent on tat. Then after that, you're quids in. It was "full" health care as well. Tax free earnings. Flights to anywhere in the world and back again at the end and start.
Domestics earnings are very very low. $1.25 per hour rings a bell in 2005. Dunno what the bar guys were making. Most of them were Hispanic on the cruises we went on. UK bods mainly the spa "girls" and officers, or so it seemed.
Met a drummer on one cruise who loved it. Exotic other half (they shared a cabin). Basically seemed to work about 2-3 hours a day once he'd learned the gigs.
Young, free and single? I'd give it a go and send earnings home to buy a house, which I'd let out.
The job I went for also turned out to be the main staff party organiser! For ****s sake 😁
i have 2 friends who worked on cruise ships. one hated it, the other enjoyed it, they both managed to save descent amounts of money.
if she fancies it, give it a go.
I think the other main consideration is how she is with
homesicknessseasickness
FTFY.
our niece did a Miami to Alaska working (child care) cruise and absolutely loved it.
Mini_oab just met someone working in a bar in Japan for a year out, eldest_oab is visiting a friend this week who's been cleaning accomodation and pulling pints in Morzine for a couple of seasons. They seem to be having a fabulous time.
Ships could be rather intense.
What's the wages like compared to a full time bar job?
Look on Instagram - there are a bunch of people that post about their lives and their accommodation. Very bad air quality on board. Zero labour rights. Many of these things are all-inclusive booze cruises so the punters can be raucous. There can be brawls and the staff lock themselves away until it burns out. Like hotels there is a big problem with sexual harassment and sexual assault but with the added problem that there is no law enforcement.
Having said all that (!) 22 yo me probably would have loved it
Nearly ended up on superyachts. When I was doing my sea survival for the oil industry I got talking to a couple of people about the yachts and the stories made my toes curl, so be careful about that direction. Cruises didn't seem too bad but the best one was a lady who was hired to be a personal tutor and scuba instructor to the kids of a single family on their mega sailing yacht for their 3 year round the world cruise.
Does she have tattoos or visible peircings? Not sure about that side but officer-wise it was a big no-no. Had a few folk from my class move onto the booze ships plus a friend who ended up working on one on the retail side IIRC.
Plenty of fun to be had, plenty of places to see if you're not working and at that age I'd be asking why the hell not? She'll see a lot more glamorous places than I did unless she pulls in to Greenock (exception being Santos, they just get a nicer dock, it's a nice place).
It would be a shitty day in hell before I'd set foot on a cruise ship as a punter. I've been at locations where cruise ship guests disembarked for their couple of hours of freedom and **** me I would not fit in, no matter how old I got. So the chance of me enjoying working on one are slim to none. I think personally it would be hell, and I did seasons in my early adulthood so I'm not adverse to working with tourists - but not bottled up with those kinds of tourists. All the possible positives of being a tourist on one stripped away and a shit ton load of extra negatives added. No way.
I'm pretty sure you don't get the workers rights of the UK onboard either, so minimum wage, dismissal rights and working hours are out the window.
I would say go work for Neilson at one of their clubs but unless she's got an EU passport that's an opportunity for this generation very diminished by the joys of Brexit..........no doubt voted for in their droves by the total wrinkly vapid asshats who enjoy a cruise.....
And all that's before we talk about their environmental impact - you'd have to be a bit of climate denyer to work on one without feeling at least a bit of a hypocrite. Or just ignorant I guess.
I had a friend who was a marine engineer on cruise liners. I think his experiences may have contributed to his later decision to join the RN and volunteer for submarines.
environmental impact – you’d have to be a bit of climate denyer to work on one
Just been on our first family holiday to a posh hotel, swimming pools, spas, buffets etc. The waste and indulgence is absolutely insane. Apart from the oil a ship burns it can't be much worse.
Kids absolutely loved it and having a few days out on local buses up mountains and snorkelling in the sea made it fun for me and the wife.
Apart from the oil a ship burns it can’t be much worse.
i believe that they also dump a lot of garbage and sewage at sea.
regarding the type of punters, i was going to suggest the op’s daughter only applies to the companies selling the fancy holidays.
Just been on our first family holiday to a posh hotel, swimming pools, spas, buffets etc. The waste and indulgence is absolutely insane. Apart from the oil a ship burns it can’t be much worse.
In a world where we're moving towards the goal of as much renewable energy to power our homes as possible cruise liners are a real outlier. A community of 4000 or whatever living 'off grid' with every light bulb, air con unit, walk in fridge for all that food, every hot shower, hell pressurised water even, and a million other things all powered by diesel. And then of course using it to propel the ship obviously too. I'd add the sewage processing too but we're no doing too well with land systems at the moment so maybe a moot point. The air pollution in places like fjords needs to be seen to be believed. In comparison to a posh hotel, yes there's the same greed and waste but when you add the energy systems needed it's orders of magnitude worse in terms of environmental impact.
Dumping garbage at sea is a huge no-no. Sewage is treated before being discharged overboard as very clear water. The States, in particular, are extremely hot on this but other Maritime bodies do their own monitoring as well.
Dumping garbage at sea is a huge no-no. Sewage is treated before being discharged overboard as very clear water. The States, in particular, are extremely hot on this but other Maritime bodies do their own monitoring as well.
Oh yes, they are angels - never dream of trying to circumvent rules. Oh no...not quite....
From FoE
Carnival was hit with a $40 million fine for illegal waste disposal and was put on federal criminal probation in 2017. During their five-year probationary period an independent court-ordered monitor was required to examine its ships. During the first year an inspector found over 800 violations. A year later, Carnival had to pay another $20 million for environmental violations. And in January 2022, it paid another $1 million for failing to implement court ordered monitoring programs to attempt to ensure it doesn’t illegally pollute in the future.
I had the pleasure of kayaking through a sewage slick after a cruise ship passed in a Norwegian fjord....but I'm sure that was a coincidence......
My cousin did it for while as an entertainer. Entertained so much they ended up with the clap.
Well, it didn't take long for the sanctimonious judgemental evangelists to jump on this one. Deny the kid a chance to live a little and make her own call? Or should she just don sack cloth and ashes now to satisfy the poor sods who haven't had the wit to stretch their own horizons and simply envy those who do?
🤷🏻♂️
not been on a cruise.
On the whole people are generally decent so why not give it a go?
Can’t be much more tiring than bar work appears to be. And room and board included?
Plus maybe some chance to see bits of the world and meet different people.
Or should she just don sack cloth and ashes now to satisfy the poor sods who haven’t had the wit to stretch their own horizons and simply envy those who do?
🙂 If you knew how far my horizons had been stretched you'd realise how stupid that comment is!
Yes, I think cruise lines are run by some pretty unsound people for greed, to satisfy the needs of tourists with very limited horizons and imagination, and I pity the poor sods who work on them. But each to their own - if it's the most interesting thing you can find to do at 21 so be it.
<p style="text-align: left;">I'd have thought your stretched horizons would have made you a bit less judgemental and a bit more tolerant? Obviously not. But hey, nice work trashing a whole industry and the people who work in it.</p>
@convert your comments are born of pure ignorance, no scratch that, intolerance. You don't like the people that go on cruises so that automatically makes them bad people and the folk that work there unimaginative?
Go have a word with yourself.
No excusing the pollution stuff though, that gets battered into you at college so whoever was responsible for those discharges should have been in court as well, they would have been if it was the USA.
I don't see the intolerance. They said they'd never go or work on one. They didn't say they think the ships, their workers and their customers should be nuked from space.
As for the pollution - this is what they do in Canadian waters. Who knows what they're up to in places where there's even less oversight - like the Dominican Republic or Indonesia...
Go have a word with yourself.
Really? Go reread. I have seen enough of the groups that go on them, know enough about the product and know a few people who are regulars to know it's not for me and I'd hate it. I think it's tourism for people who need leading by the hand for a very superficial experience and I would definitely not fit in. If you find that view too opinionated life must be tough.
My niece spent 10 years or so on cruise ships as part of the dancing crew. She's been off the boats for 18 months, now a yoga/dance instructor.
She had mostly a great time, well looked after, lots of friends now around the world.
The downside is that her parents felt obliged to go on a Carribean cruise if they were to see her, my brother hated them!
I have seen enough of the groups that go on them, know enough about the product
But don’t know about what the working life is like?
But don’t know about what the working life is like?
I've not worked on one personally no. Shudder.... But have friends who have (most moved to super yachts) and oddly, we talk, so I guess there's that. Some time ago mind.
One of my wife's friends is an HR manager at Carnival in Southampton. She's pretty open about the industry, conditions and internal politics. She's also unapologetically mercenary about life in general, taking money and pleasure without thinking too hard about it. She tells tales of what goes on then in the next breadth says she's off on a next staff discount cruise to xxx. I'm not sure how she squares it with herself, but we are all different I guess.
I pity the poor sods who work on them. But each to their own – if it’s the most interesting thing you can find to do at 21 so be it.
Like I said.
It actually can be interesting as you get to go places you otherwise probably wouldn't. Yes the experience is superficial but do enough laps and you'll see more. No more superficial than a season working a bar in Shagaluf and probably far less likely to end badly.
2nd and 3rd hand experience is the best kind of experience I guess. Especially if it was some time ago.
I'd do it in her position, worst case scenario is she walks away and gets a flight home at the next port it docks at, best case is she see's a bit more of the world than she currently is and gets paid for it.
My previous (engineering) job involved lots of international travel to far flung destinations - it was the best thing that happened to me coming from a northern ex mill town.
Working in a bar tends to result in some strange social situations, life styles , dynamics, relationships (not good ones usually). I imagine working on a cruise ship would turn this up to 11.
In addition working on a cruise ship would make it hard to get experience, investigate, take training if she fancied getting out of hospitality. The entire situation would narrow your view point in general. Yes to working abroad,no to working abroad in a cruise ship.
Something to think about.
Yes to working abroad,no to working abroad in a cruise ship
Shouldn't this be on the Brexit Benefit thread?
When I was her age I was working in Madrid as an English teacher (having already spent two summers working as a walking guide in France).
All those Brexit voting racists must be very happy that young British people are now forced to serve them booze rather than head off to mix with filthy foreigners.
My sister was involved in this whole thing briefly and says that there are a series of YouTube or TikTok videos made by cruise ship (hotel) crew showing what life is like onboard. Not *all* negative but frankly I think applying for a job as long-haul cabin crew might offer a better life/work balance with the same travel benefits.
Back in the day, I worked as a deck officer for P&O/Princess Cruises for 9 years.
Overall, I had a great time and earned a good salary, tax free.
I got ton some quite obscure places as well, Devils Island, Manaus (several days up the Amazon), Iceland, loads of Pacific Islands etc. It's not all Caribbean Islands if you are on the right ships.
It's hard work, 7 days a week for up to 6 months.
A lot has changed since then, the drinking culture was pretty mental. Things are a lot stricter now, certainly on the Carnival owned ships. Costa Concordia changed a lot.
Regarding bar staff and the like, there is a mix of nationalities and terms and conditions.
On the American based ships, the bar staff were 90% Mexican and Filipino.
On the UK ships, it tended to be Indian with a smattering of Brits. The Brits tended to be supervisor position.
The UK ships, P&O/Cunard tend to treat the crew better than the US but they are still pretty much racist institutions. Officers nearly all white Europeans, crew brown and from 2nd 3rd world.
If she has some decent hospitability experience, has she considered a position as a Purser? "Officer" position, so better accommodation and access to passenger facilities. Not big wages but there is a real career path if wanted.
I would say go for it, she's not a prisoner, if she doesn't like it then she can always come home, although she might have to pay her own travel home if she resigns. Although not an issue if on a UK based ships.
One of my [21 year old] daughters is currently training as cabin crew for Emirates in Dubai and loving it.
Tax free earnings, free accomodation and utilities, get to see the world on layovers while staying in 5 star hotels!
Although based in Dubai she will be home about every 6 weeks or whenever she's on a Manchester flight!
Maybe that's another option?
Maybe that’s another option?
The competition for cabin crew is massive, very hard to get a place.
A school friend went to work as a spark (I think its called something much more expensive sounding - like Electrical Engineering Officer) on ships. He started on cruise ships, moved to P&O then did cargo ships (he now works ashore, since having kids). On the cruise ships: The engineering was interesting, the budgets were good, there was a structure for learning. Pay wasn’t as good. Food was good! Customer facing staff were, em, how shall we put this, very friendly! He thinks the see the world bit is oversold - see the same places over and over again in very short doses. But I recently asked him if he would recommend it for someone who was looking to go into Merchant Navy and he said 100%. The experience on the hospitality side may not be so good.
Working in a bar tends to result in some strange social situations, life styles , dynamics, relationships (not good ones usually).
Working on a bar remains the most fun job I've ever had (hotel not cruise ship). Had some fun and got a bit threadbare - body clock was totally ****ed - but nothing I don't look back on fondly 20 years later.
If I was young and wanted to do something fun with a hospitality slant I'd probably go ski season though.
Give it a go, don't t like it jump ship. I spent 3 years working and living on a dive charter boat all round the Hebredies and Norway. Had a great time,paid for my first house. In the happy position of being able to tell punters to **** off if they were being dicks.
Worked on refurb of super yachts in Palma, loads of money but rich people are essentially very dull and not much fun to work for. Paid for a few Heli biking trips in NZ so no complaints.
If you want to holiday with lots of cocaine private jets and airfields are how millionaires kids do it.
In addition working on a cruise ship would make it hard to get experience, investigate, take training if she fancied getting out of hospitality. The entire situation would narrow your view point in general. Yes to working abroad,no to working abroad in a cruise ship.
Wasn't my friend's experience, she went from retail to a shore based position in only a few years.
Working on a bar remains the most fun job I’ve ever had (hotel not cruise ship).
This is unrelated to the OP, but it was working in a bar that made me go teetotal for a year and realise how much I hated the general public. They're all idiots (me included).
I'm not reading all of the thread....however, I'm a full time musician so know an awful lot of people that have done cruise ships. There's a huge variety of experiences on offer, but fairly (very) crap pay is pretty much a given. (You're looking at much less than 2k per month as a musician)
It only seems to make sense to me if you're single and don't have any financial commitments at all. 5 or 6 months with zero rent or food bills could probably see you end up with the best part of 10k as a lump sum if you were careful (very few 21 year olds are though!)
Quite a lot of guys that I gig with seem to be married to girls that they met working on cruise ships.....
The competition for cabin crew is massive, very hard to get a place.
Not since Covid. Most airlines are desperate.
Let's not forget, as bar staff on a cruise ship, assuming it's outside UK waters, you'd be able to qualify for Seafarers Earnings Deduction. That means tax free earnings of you stick with it for more than a year, and spend more time out of the UK than in (ie, while home on leave), while employed on the ship. Also, if it isn't UK flagged, no National Insurance (voluntary contributions if you want to at very reduced rates).
She should do her research and crack on! Worse case scenario is that she doesn't like it and comes home early. I strongly suspect this is the sort of thing she'll regret later in life if she doesn't give it a go.
What's the alternative? Staying at home on zero hours contract? Its a no brainer.
My Mrs worked on cruise ships many years ago as part of the entertainment team, she had it cushy with one show a night and then the rest of her time was hers. Not so for the rest of the crew who worked long hours non stop.
Personally I'd find it he'll.
What about applying for a work Visa to another country and doing some bar work in another city? USA, Canada, Australia, South Asia, find a job, rent a place, soak up the vibe and move on if you want to. It'd offer much more freedom.
Where's the cocktail mixing centre of the world 🍸?
Friend from school did it after she screwed up her A-levels (boy troubles), planned to do a few years and get some cash behind her.
Finished up doing it for 20+ years. Ended up as some sort of staff captain on a mediumish sized boat cruising the Nordics and across to Shetlands, Faroes, Iceland and all up the Baltics as well.
Met (and divorced) her husband on the boats, has since had a kid, and is now managing a big hotel somewhere near York.
I ve had a couple of similar jobs which paid well, hard work, accom provided so effectively saved all the money. Hotel bar, I too stopped drinking after that having listened to 24/7 bull poo for 6 months. Brilliant staff culture though, put a load of young people together away from home, so much fun.
Secondly, a season travelling round agricultural shows, pretty much back to back, so after a month didn't know where I was in the country till I heard a customers accent. No idea now, but assume same companies have a presence at shows. Saved all the cash as employer paid food, accom, mileage. Latter paid for a post grad year in London....couldnt believe it.