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Is it possible to do this safely, and how??
Though I'd save myself some cash by intalling log burner myself but when I went up to chimney to put flue down it became apparent the chimney stack needs some work carried out on it which I will be able to do myself.......but will I have to spend the money I saved by self-installing woodstove on scaffolding or is there an alternative?
thanks
Hire a cherry picker
If your DIYing, you can just attach your harness to a sky hook - no scaffolding required.
Serious answer - if you think you can do the work from a ladder, then crack on. Only you can decide if you NEED scaffolding.
If you think you do need a platform to work from, then maybe a tower would work - depends on access really.
think about what you are asking. no, i mean think about it - if you are happy risking your neck to save a few quid, crack on.
have you got kids? married? just asking like.
we used this but it might not be any use if the chimner stack is on a gable..
[url= http://www.ladders4sale.co.uk/600mm-Wide-Staging-Kit-149.asp?gclid=Cj0KEQiAwPCjBRDZp9LWno3p7rEBEiQAGj3KJigOY22ev1B7CWRZ9QepMjYLbjPjuJbTq0o69NaThj4aAiOX8P8HAQ ]platform ladder staging system[/url]
but the teams using it said it wasn't the safest they've ever been so we binned it and went back to proper scaffolds erected by a professional company.
As above, too many unknowns to give a decent answer, but it will probably take at least 3 times longer to do whatever you need to do.
Where are you? I have a tower that is not being used at the moment.
didn't Rod Hull ask Emu this very same question?
I've just hired these when I wanted to do at height work:
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You need a Gable end.
NB My chimney fitters pulled the liner up from the bottom with a rope, that way the guy on the roof never had a large mass to handle and just was up a ladder pulling on a rope over the chimney - much more stable.
Yeah, I agree with Smudger....it just ain't worth taking a chance.
However if you can secure a Harness to the chimney, (£40 ish to buy) then you'd at least be immune to falling far.
many people fall from roofs every year and are seriously injured, and some dont work on roofs without scaffolding.
only yopu can decide the risks, and how to pay the mortgage, if you fall and cant work again.
Yes, you will have to spend the money you saved, but the contractor would have stung you for the extra work anyway, or would have left it in a state for you to fix later.
Hire a tower or cherrypicker, save yourself a broken neck. Cement & bricks are heavy, you need 2 hands free to do any worthwhile work.
I Have used Roofing Ladders and Ladder Cripples with scaffold platform on it before.
It did not comply with [u]ANY[/u] H&S requirements at all and was not suitable for a gable end.
I was used to working at height, used to working on unguarded platforms and cripples and I didn't have much to do (About a days work) and I was able to borrow the kit.
Now I am older (Fatter) and +2 kids, I would scaffold it 😉
[i]on unguarded ... cripples[/i]
I suspect the "I was a kid in the 1970's" mental image I now have is not the correct one.
About 30 years ago, a chap at our place had to do some work on the roof round the back of his house. He tied a safety rope around his waist and to the towbar of his car, parked at the front.
What could possibly go wrong? . . . .
His wife popped out to the shops. 😯
on unguarded ... cripplesI suspect the "I was a kid in the 1970's" mental image I now have is not the correct one.
More like the don't play on electricity pylon "Jimmieeeeeee........" safety films from the 70's.
Thanks for sensible replies, much the same replies my SOH and two daughters (21 & 18) were giving me!
Not on gable end so might look at the tower option to get me to gutter level (!) and to use as a platform to get up the roof with cat ladder. Could keep all tools needed and cement mix on tower and then use cat ladders to get up to stack to work with a harness
Neilwheel....I'm based on the Wirral, I dont suppose you're close?
Sorry, nowhere near.
If you go for the above be careful of putting any side load into the tower.
Chimney stacks are also often worse the deeper you go, so steady away.
I often get asked to balance on a roof with my hand board in one hand and a trowel in the other to plaster a chimney off a cat ladder,yes sounds daft now doesn't it.
You can buy or hire angle grinders and use same without any training 🙄
At work all grinding/cutting equipment is under lock & key and We have to attend a training course before using. Plenty of YouTube video evidence as to why 🙁
In work ladders are now under lock and Key for the same reason. Health and safety may have gone mad but generally its saving lives.
Depending on how far you stack protrudes above the ridge line, I've found you can do most things (a bit of re-building, removing pots, capping with a paving slab, installing a liner, etc.)whilst sitting astride the ridge or standing on a roof ladder from 1 side. At the end of the day, only you can decide how comfortable you feel in the situation.
However if you can secure a Harness to the chimney, (£40 ish to buy) then you'd at least be immune to falling far
Don't google injuries from safety harnesses!
Working in construction, I get weekly updates on news and prosecutions from the HSE - there's always a good entry of darwin nominees for falls, yet still people take unnecessary risks.
Good
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Not so good
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Fun!
[img] .jpg)
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Perfectly acceptable to use a tower then crawler. One question I would ask tho is what sort of pitch and what roofing material. Also bear in mind we're due some frosts over the next few days in places.
Highest ally scaff tower with a cantilever extension is 8.1m working height. If that will get you to your roof, roofing ladder and up you go. Will cost you around £300 for a week, many places will only hire for that long.
Don't sit the ladder on the scaff tower, it will go horribly wrong. The towers aren't the most stable thing and in 'industry' you need a ticket to erect one, so make sure you are happy with it. They can feel a bit fragile up over the 5m mark, I'm a rope access tech and I hate the things, along with ladders. Give me a pair of ropes any day!
I'd also consider the worth of a harness and securing yourself to the stack, considering that you are up there to repair it? I'd have to be pretty sure it was absolutely bombproof to consider it a suitable anchor point, would be more happy with a rope fired over the roof and anchored to something like a van or **** off big tree below. Won't be my funeral though, so you do whatever feels right!...
Wow some interesting replies here.
Don't do it. Employ professional's!
Scaffolding will cost around 350 quid and you will save a couple of days working by being able to access things properly.
Cherry picker hire, around 200 plus vat for training alone and don't even think about using one without it.
Aluminium towers, fairly cheap to rent usually by the day etc. But very easy to get wrong in use and not suited for what you need. It wontbe stable enough to run a ladder against and work safely.
Your comment "Could keep all tools needed and cement mix on tower and then use cat ladders to get up to stack to work with a harness" suggests you are well out of your depth so really ought to employ someone else and use the days you save to earn cash to cover the bill.
Oh and don't even think about using a harness unless you are trained and have a rescue plan in place.
You might think this is scaremongering but serious things happen at height.
Please do take a look at the guy who went balls out.
As a DIY type who has hired a tower to paint up to the apex of a roof and a cherry picker (genie) to remove a chimney my vote goes for paying for proper scaffolding. Get a quote, I think that £350 guess will be about right. The extra ease of working will be well worth the extra cost.
^^ I said don't google harness injuries FFS!
Not dinnertime safe!
Rubber Buc, that isn't a random guess. Im owner of a scaffolding company 😆 The number of times I have this conversation is ridiculous.
40mpg, you did say that but it hadn't refreshed by time I posted. No pics present tho, to click or not is up to the op.
So removing a chimney, on a ladder tied to the battens is a no no then?
i'm a joiner by trade, worked as a one man band for last ten years, in conjunction with a roofer, fitted many chimney liners in the past, and worked on roofs day to day. my advice? get scaffolding. impossible to carry out any significant work on a chimney from cat ladders, where are you gonna put a bucket of cement? are you happy standing on a ridge without holding on? spare materials? as above, a chimney scaff should be about £300, buy it, crack on.
wwaswas - Memberon unguarded ... cripples
I suspect the "I was a kid in the 1970's" mental image I now have is not the correct one.
Quite possibly !!
[img] 
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These are what I was talking about, amazed you can still legally hire them. 🙄
We used to set them up on roof ladders, above and below the stack with boards to work from.
Normally just painting Rendered stacks though rather than rebuilding them. proper scaffolding is much nicer to work on, if not quite as easy to set up and tear down DIY.
Bunch of fannys! What would twinwall do? 😆
The guy who fitted my stove earlier this year insisted on scaffolding due to the height of my chimney: think it cost £400. I thought it seemed a lot at the time, but, from what I've subsequently heard, it was about standard for round here (Surrey).
We hired a roof ladder and I climbed from the ladder up onto the chimney lowering a rope to the wife below and pulled the liner up from between my feet. It was easy if you've got a; a head for heights b ; a harness slings and climbing rope enough to build a belay to climb using and a static anchor of the chimney to attach to once up there.
The whole cost of hiring in traders was simply insulting. More than just pricey.
[i]but the teams using it said it wasn't the safest they've ever been so we binned it and went back to proper scaffolds erected by a professional company. [/i]
Gives me the willies just looking at it. This could though be connected to me falling off a ladder a couple of weeks ago, luckily it was only from my outhouse roof, but 10 ft is still 10 ft...
Heard enough stories of chimney stacks disintegrating when used as anchors to never want to rig off one unless I knew it was absolutely bomber.
Hover boots
Jet pack
Put it this way , if you fall of the roof your more then likely gonna up in a box or a wheel chair , worth saving a few hundred quid ??
In the last five years, I've had an uncle fall off a roof and seriously injure his back, another uncle fell through a car port (and got lucky with loadsa bruises) a guy a work fell off when his ladder slid away under him whilst using it on a flat roof, and another guy at work was on his single story roof, fell off and saved his head by sticking his arm out. Unfortunately his arm didn't fare so well, bones and ligaments everywhere, coming up to 6 months off work, still no strength in his hand and no feeling either. He is a manual worker...
Forget the equipment hire, pay someone! I parked my van under the gutter and climbed up above it on my bungalow roof (using a ladder, the van just reduced the chance of hitting concrete!) to cut away an old telephone bracket and that was bad enough, all I needed was a pair of cutters in my pocket!
Bolt the tower to your house if you go that way. 10mm plug and eye bolts and good ratchet straps. Towers are very wobbly
Pk +1
We used to bolt the ladders to the house when we did do the ladder platforms.
mixer on tower??
I hope he means a mix.
I know 3 people who have been killed falling off of roofs, two ex work colleagues and a mates dad. Is it worth it?.
I'm with the 'get someone else to do it' brigade.
Having read all the above tales of woe it does make me feel a bit like I'd just be paying some random to take a fall on my behalf though 🙁
Had to do some very quick work on my chimney recently. Climbing gear on, out onto roof through Velux, belayed by my Mrs. Climb up the (steep, metal, very high) roof using quickdraws on the snow-stoppers to "lead climb" up and across to the chimney, while dragging tools and some pre-mixed mortar.
Really don't recommend it, but got the job done and it was mostly "safe".
Thanks for all your responses, I do agree with the safety aspect even though I've got a good head for heights............but paying £500 to get to my chimney to carry out 30 mins top remedial work doesnt sit well with me, neither does a fall from said chimney!!
40mpg......the photo you posted of cradle on the ridge...any idea what it is called? I'm expecting that its cheaper to buy one of those than get a scaffolding platform up there. Or is that what it is, just a cradle made from scaff assembled on site?
I've been up a DIY type scaffold tower before. They're ok and if it was me in your situation I'd probably get one of these. And I'd use eyebolts, plural, to stabilise it. The towers are simply too wobbly when freestanding.
They cost about as much as hiring the full monty for a week, so your choice. Easily punted on fleabay when you're done, too.
Towers do not cost that much to hire. I'm currently paying 20 week for a 5 m tower. If erected properly against a wall with outriggers fitted they are perfectly stable and safe. As I said before it would be double width tower with crawler straight up off it. If you want to go belt and braces go for fixed line harness fitted to an inertia reel attached to the tower. That will stop you going down the non tower side of the roof. Obviously the other way your coming down the crawler and back towards the tower.
I'll once again make the point tho. I'm happy and confident to do this but others aren't. I would also take into account pitch, roof material and weather conditions.
[url= http://www.abilityint.co.uk/Aluminum_Scaffolding_For_working_on_a_Chimey.html ]CARS - Chimney Access Ridge Stand[/url] - no idea how available they are though.
Note this will only allow you access to the ridge side of teh stack. If on a gable, you will also need a tower to access teh gable side, and both will leave you totally exposed on the slope sides. And access via ladder is always last resort.
If you need access all round (very likely) I would strongly recommend full scaffold. This would give you the best working platform, so the quality of your work will be improved and time exposed on roof reduced alongside safety aspects. A professional pricing this would consider these, and the scaffold would always* be best value option.
*subject to access constraints
but paying £500 to get to my chimney to carry out 30 mins top remedial work doesnt sit well with me,
Except it's not "30 mins work" is it? By the time you've got a tower and built it; got a roofing ladder and got it up there on the roof in the right place (without trashing the slates); bought your cement and mixed it up; got the cement, your tools, you up there and in position; discovered you've left your trowel on the deck and gone back and got it; done the work (the easy bit); put your kit away, taken the roof ladder down, taken the tower down, returned all the kit you've hired, yada yada, it could well be a day or more plus the cost of the kit hire, couldn't it? All of a sudden £500 to just "have it happen" doesn't seem too bad...
A colleague's off work at the moment because her Dad's just broken his back. Anyone care to hazard a guess how he did it?
[i]About 30 years ago, a chap at our place had to do some work on the roof round the back of his house. He tied a safety rope around his waist and to the towbar of his car, parked at the front.
What could possibly go wrong? . . . .
His wife popped out to the shops
[/i]
I want to know how this story ended please!
[i]
I want to know how this story ended please! [/i]
it's probably on Snopes 😉
Did she need to drive to the shops?
Currently waiting for a quote from HSS for chimney scaffolding, looks a lot likt the CARS sysytem above by 40mpg.
Not gable end chimney so fingers crossed it'll do the job.
Thanks again for advice
[quote=mattbee ]Heard enough stories of chimney stacks disintegrating when used as anchors to never want to rig off one unless I knew it was absolutely bomber.
Which is what would worry me. Don't tend to rely on a single anchor point when building a belay.
I've been up a ladder to sort out the TV antenna attached to the chimney, but in that case the ladder has been tied on through a window (and the base anchored) and I've been attached to both the top of the ladder and the chimney. That's on a completely solid chimney which doesn't need any work doing to it - no way would I be working on the chimney like that.
I like stevomcd's solution, but don't have any "bolts" on my roof. Though I suppose with a gable end you could insert some!
Time for a bit of Fred...
I throw a rope over the roof ridge and tie it down (I have used a tow bar but took both sets of keys up with me). I then use a Petzl shunt to get up the other side and belay to the chimney in addition. I've got a scaffolding tower but can't get it near the chimney.
Edit: 5:10 shoes and only on a dry day.
Crumbs! Reading this thread I'm surprised I haven't died at least a hundred times over in the past few years 😉
Sorry, I've been busy.
stealthcat - Member
Did she need to drive to the shops?
In one. Pulled him over the ridge, landed where the car had been parked.
He was off work about 18 months.
Time for a bit of Fred...
😯 I mean, even by the standards of the time that must have been loopy...
konabunny - Member
Time for a bit of Fred...I mean, even by the standards of the time that must have been loopy...
Agreed, he should've left the family at home and spun the job out for a fortnight. 😉
lol!
I've spent enough time at heights in my life to know that doing it properly is the best thing to do. I took a 15' fall from a roof space when I was 19, caught myself on the handrail of the stairs luckily and walked away with shock. 2' to the right and it would have been 25' to a concrete end.
This sort of response is really why people end up injured
The whole cost of hiring in traders was simply insulting. More than just pricey.
They have a legal obligation to do things in a safe way, that involves more gear and more time, thankfully killing people at work to get things done cheaply is now generally considered socially unacceptable.
The big issue DIY people face is that they don't do this sort of thing very often, you don't see the risks or the issues so don't really plan or mitigate for them. Simple things like dropping something on the roof and then finding it in the head of the person who stepped out the front door. Sorry to sound like "Health and Safety gone mad" but it's something that needs sorting out.
Kona - we were still laddering chimneys like that about 15 years ago. - Even 200 - 300 foot ones. There is no other way of getting up (helicopter excluded). We were using aluminium ladders but it was still all very traditional.
blimey
I tend to choose the jobs i do myself, after doing a little personal risk assessment..
its just money at the end of the day...
compared to life.
my cousins husband is 29 and currently fighting for his life... he didnt ask for it or do anything stupid to get there...
makes you wonder about risks.
Just get a Chinese worker to do it for you, these are both 30 storey buildings....
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7475/15943805082_69aaaf4301_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7475/15943805082_69aaaf4301_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qhUaM5 ]Health & Safety in China[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/75003318@N00/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7525/15943804912_78b50f1305_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7525/15943804912_78b50f1305_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qhUaJ9 ]Health & Safety in China[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/75003318@N00/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
>2 storeys and the end result is much the same...
On [url= http://smwcrt.org/j32/index.php/1980s ]29/10/83[/url] I fell down a 35ft pot in OFD cave landing head first on rocks in the stream bed. When I came round I self rescued; free climbing back out of the pot unassisted to rejoin the group and making my own way back to the surface. I was back at work in two weeks.
Results are quite variable and people have suffered much worse falling only 3ft. Falling hurts, be careful.
Have you considered the possibility that you are in a coma and this is all in your head and in real life your missus is now married to your brother?
have you seen vanilla sky?
Whilst the H&S army would no doubt have issues, I think don't think the guys in the second picture are putting themselves at massive risk, providing the mast is securely fixed. - They would have to be trying quite hard to fall off.
problem is marcus - you have no idea if that mast is securely fitted until your in free fall.
To be fair, you could get a good idea of how secure it is by looking at it and giving it a good 'wobble'
all is not what it seems at first - is it weight rated for him ?
i remember a similar cavalier attitude when climbing trees as a kid.
worked fine for me - my lighter mate came up behind me and the branch snapped for him.
got a bit of tree through his lower lip for his trouble.
I think don't think the guys in the second picture are putting themselves at massive risk, providing the mast is securely fixed.
This is China, so it could just be held on with blue-tak....
On a more serious note, the guy who installed the mast won't have had any safety gear. Normally just an old length of hemp rope and a mate holding him, bit like these guys 9 storeys up:
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3105/2701083303_b148148912_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3105/2701083303_b148148912_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/57FKXM ]No harnesses![/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/75003318@N00/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr