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Somebody already mentioned if but I’m not sure why the need for so much video conferencing when voice works so well most of the time.
Video and the ability to share screens to point at things is better than audio alone. Of course you could all view the same doc on your own computers, but the ability to point and annotate is important.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24587119
Achilles' ear? Inferior human short-term and recognition memory in the auditory modality.
Bigelow J, Poremba A.
Abstract
Studies of the memory capabilities of nonhuman primates have consistently revealed a relative weakness for auditory compared to visual or tactile stimuli: extensive training is required to learn auditory memory tasks, and subjects are only capable of retaining acoustic information for a brief period of time. Whether a parallel deficit exists in human auditory memory remains an outstanding question. In the current study, a short-term memory paradigm was used to test human subjects' retention of simple auditory, visual, and tactile stimuli that were carefully equated in terms of discriminability, stimulus exposure time, and temporal dynamics. Mean accuracy did not differ significantly among sensory modalities at very short retention intervals (1-4 s). However, at longer retention intervals (8-32 s), accuracy for auditory stimuli fell substantially below that observed for visual and tactile stimuli. In the interest of extending the ecological validity of these findings, a second experiment tested recognition memory for complex, naturalistic stimuli that would likely be encountered in everyday life. Subjects were able to identify all stimuli when retention was not required, however, recognition accuracy following a delay period was again inferior for auditory compared to visual and tactile stimuli. Thus, the outcomes of both experiments provide a human parallel to the pattern of results observed in nonhuman primates. The results are interpreted in light of neuropsychological data from nonhuman primates, which suggest a difference in the degree to which auditory, visual, and tactile memory are mediated by the perirhinal and entorhinal cortices.
I agree with all of the benefits but I met all of my friends at / through work when I moved here alone for a grad scheme - my life would be totally different if we hadn't been going into the office. I really hope my employer recognises that we can be trusted after all but I would never give up the office completely.
20 odd years ago I was working for a huge US co who introduced WFH for a number of us so I only had to visit the office once a fortnight. It was ok but the tech was both clunky & unreliable at times.
For around a decade now, I've had an office base (or two) but the ability to work remotely as & when needed/convenient. The IT is spot on 99% of the time & with this lockdown it's clear I really could do my job without any time actually in the office - client meetings are a harder nut to crack.
I'd quite happily go back to how things were in my last job but with current tech as that'd be the best of both for me personally.
That said, I have colleagues in the same role who really aren't coping very well with WFH & cannot see how we could ever do it long term - despite the fact that there's an ongoing pilot to do exactly that which is proving workable.
I believe the change is here and, like all change, it'll sit well with some yet be hated by others. Those in the middle ground will just get used to it & carry on moaning about whatever they feels is the worst bit of their job anyway. Horses for courses & all that.
We've been doing OK WFH, it's a bit slower at times due to working off a single screen but it's generally fine. We've been doing some very good all-staff updates via video call, file sharing is good.
However it was commented on that the small scale general "fun" interactions in the office, the 30sec conversation, the banter just wasn't possible any more. In that respect, I think many people would still prefer the office at least a couple of days a week.
Funnily enough, no, I can't go see my friends in the evening.
Even after this Covid thing is all over?
You can then draw on paper the proposed solution or formulae
Catching up on this thread, work have a fancy wifi noteboard, where you can draw on it and people logging onto the meeting can see it on their screen. You can also save anything written on it as a document. We're not a fancy tech co, just a smallish construction company. Not sure if it works for remote attendees to be able to write/share stuff.
On a group catch up, a friend said he enjoyed not having pointless distractions when people stop by your desk for no reason but missed out on those brief chat with someone in passing that may solve a work issue without the need for detailed discussions.
One issue for public transport commuters is the season ticket. If you commute 5 days a week and in future your company offers 2 days WFH, will it be a saving to drop an annual ticket for buying 3 a week? If not your commute cost doesn't change.
Lots of people driving or taking public transport for hours every day to go and sit in front of a monitor they could sit in front of at home is crazy in lots of ways. The last few weeks have made it very clear that a lot of things are better if that doesn't happen.
Like I said on another thread though I'm a bit surprised that so many people are so eager to be stuck at home all the time. Everyone's situation is different but personally I don't think it's very good for my well-being. I don't have kids and I had a nice bike commute rather than hours in the car so I can see the pros and cons might work out differently for others.
I also find the flexibility of WFH is a bit overblown if you work in a team that you need to be in contact with often - in practice that means everyone still does more or less 9-5, so I don't think it's as simple as replacing those workplace social interactions with ones in your local coffee shops. And as far as tools go they are pretty good (agree with people saying video is overused a lot) as far as they go but they are no substitute for standing round the whiteboard with your team.
I miss the change of scene and the social interaction with people that I count as friends from the office. It's going to be interesting to see if my workplace decides to do anything differently after this.
EDIT: basically +1 for what hungry monkey said.
I have to be on site some of the time, but no question we will be doing split from now on. I suspect it will be 3 days on site and 2 at home.
Really liking being at home for work, took a world emergency for my boss to actually consider it though for a routine thing
I could see me only being in the office two days a week if I could keep the working from home flexibility.
Which would mean I would no longer need to be part time/term time to fit in with the kids.
I could be earning more money and cutting my travel costs!
Like I said on another thread though I’m a bit surprised that so many people are so eager to be stuck at home all the time.
I certainly don't feel "stuck at home". If the weather's nice I can go out for a ride. I can take a long lunch. Take the day off then work at the weekend or in the evening to catch up. I can even go away on holiday and do a bit of staying in touch work. I'm pretty happy with my set-up here and the flexibility that goes with it. Some of the changes to my traditional work practices have happened by accident, some by design, but it is nice to try new things and see what works for you.
If the weather’s nice I can go out for a ride. I can take a long lunch. Take the day off then work at the weekend or in the evening to catch up. I can even go away on holiday and do a bit of staying in touch work.
Do you work as part of a team? I totally get what you're saying but as I said in my post it's still 9-5 for me so the flexibility you describe isn't really there.
I’m not seeing why working from home is thought of as “stuck at home”
If anything it gives more room for going out to do stuff
I travel around 2 hours into/from work which is a lot of time. Now that I have an office set up at home, with full access into my work’s IT system, together with ms teams, I will be looking at cutting my days in the office once we get back to normal.
However I want to go in for that face to face interaction, but don’t need to every day. It will save me a bit of money in fuel, vehicle wear and tear and save me approximately 2hrs a day!
I'm an ideal candidate - programmer / manager. I've worked from home 2 or 3 days a week for 15 years. I have a dedicated office at home with the same chair as at work and a bigger monitor. The people I work with are mainly in Northampton, Knutsford and Pune, India so we're never in the same place. Last year my employer more or less banned all travel so people had to get used to it. Probably once very 2 or 3 months it would be useful to be in the same room as a bunch of other people - design brainstorming, project inception but the rest of the time there's no point.
We also have call centre staff working from home - it works, you can even have snoopy supervisors still, they can listen to you and see what you're typing but not smell you!
Key to making it work if your job allows is having decent equipment, a routine and a dedicated space.
One of my friends works for Atlas Copco. A few years ago they banned all international travel. Everyone said it wouldn't work, Atlas Copco looked at the figures and decided that even if it had a 5 to 10% impact it was worth it. The travel ban is still in place.
Murray
SubscriberOne of my friends works for Atlas Copco. A few years ago they banned all international travel. Everyone said it wouldn’t work, Atlas Copco looked at the figures and decided that even if it had a 5 to 10% impact it was worth it. The travel ban is still in place.
Same here, in fact travel within each country in our firm has been clamped down on.
TBH 90% of the travel costs were in the US as they seemed to fly business class all over the place for a 1 hr meeting!
On the WFH I have split my team up and we now work a sort of shift 1 in from 6-2 with a back up person at home and 2-10 the same the person who was backup is in the next day etc.
The main issue I have is whatever shift/cover I'm on I am still getting calls and working over my usual 8-5:30 hours so in effect am at work longer!
As someone else said if you live on your own as I do now its very isolating and as most online meetings seem to involve our site manager there is no banter 🙁
design brainstorming, project inception but the rest of the time there’s no point.
I get project manager roles being able to work remotely (as the job is easy 🤣). However as a Business Analyst myself sitting in a room with the experts to, as you said design/gather requirements is really ideal.
I've always WFH when I wanted before the crisis but for those types of meetings I'd setup workshops in the office and do them face to face/travel if need be.
I've not done a design/requirements session since being in lockdown so will be interesting to see how it goes, MS teams might help. I'm all for it but apprehensive at the same time.
WFH all the time at first seemed crap but I'm loving the no 2hr a day commute, it's just the social interaction we're missing as a team, so we have WhatsApp and things like that to plug that gap.
A small % of the population can work from home so it will not make a huge difference across society just in the lives of a few folk
I'm not sure anyone is saying that they could/should/would like to work from home permanently all the time. But certainly there are quite a few people who could work some or even most days at home, it's been shown that it is achievable for more people and organisations than many expected.
My own civil service department is about to make a lot of experienced 40 somethings redundant later this year due to office closures that could not possibly involve a "working from home" option to retain these people.
These people are now working from home, and some have been asked to stay on beyond their original redundancy date.....
A small % of the population can work from home
Really?
In April 2020, statistics released by the UK's Office for National Statistics showed 49.2% of adults in employment were working from home, as a result of the social distancing measures introduced in response to the coronavirus pandemic.
Hmmm... 🤔
Really? Remote working website suggests that lots of people ...might be... working from home soon?
'ave a word.
Is the ONS a remote working website?
...the ONS are suggesting that 49% of people are WFH ...because they are being forced to...this does not really equate to a successful and thriving economy.
I can’t wait to get back to the office. No room to work from home and keep it separate from my home life. Back is ruined from sitting at a small dining table, fed up of the same four walls, miss the downtime from walking or cycling to and from the office and find having work in my house to have a negative effect on me and my family.
Wouldn’t mind it as much if we had a spare room that I could have as a home office. Then at least I could shut the door and section off work at the end of the day.
If it works for some people though then I believe the option should be there. I’m really pushing my bosses to allow a member of my team to do it full time. Cuts down on his ridiculous commute and means he’s more awake and productive as a result.
I reckon more lke 20-30%. See all those big office buildings? Those.
See all those huge business and industrial parks, shopping malls, etc? How many of those are just people sitting at a desk bashing away at a keyboard?
but I’m not sure why the need for so much video conferencing when voice works so well most of the time.
You know those conversations you have with people on internet fora, about all sorts of different subjects? You know those awkward situations where what you typed was misinterpreted by someone else? You know how often you can tell when someone’s taking the piss, just joking about something, or is being sarcastic, when you can see the expression on their face?
There’s no way at all I could work from home, literally not physically possible, same for every other person I work with, that’s around 130 at our site.
Nobody else involved with what the company does could work from home either, and that can involve dozens of people every day. Same goes for practically every company on the industrial estate and business park around where I work.
Getting a lot of people off the roads through wfh would certainly relieve the daily thirty-odd mile commute to and from work, though just how many of those people are doing similar hands-on rather than office-based computer oriented jobs is impossible to guess.
Although I've been wfh since a couple of weeks after lockdown started I'd still prefer being in the office. Mostly as it's just easier to discuss things with team members. Sure I can IM/Webex/Teams but it's not as simple or convenient (plus I can't screen share stuff on the classified network so it's a pain having to describe stuff). I also need two PCs for my job and had 4 monitors in the office, can only fit three at home and it makes a noticeable difference (my quad monitor stand at work doesn't fit my desk at home). I've also had to unplug my gaming PC so that's a bit annoying (too lazy to plug everything back in just to use it).
I only live a mile from the office though so don't have a crappy commute (in normal times). I also worked shorter hours in the office, generally 7am-4pm, traffic on the business park starts going mental after 4pm (can take 30+ minutes to get out of it at times) so there was always an incentive just to down tools at 4pm which meant I had a really long evening just to switch off and de-stress from the day. Recently I find myself working 7-6 or 7-7 at the moment (doesn't help things are busier than usual) and then by the time I've eaten and watched something on TV I'm already thinking about heading to bed and then usually wake up stressing about something. Makes me appreciate not having a long commute in normal times and not getting home until late evening.
I have been thinking about the % of people who can WFH
I think one of my friends. The rest - not able to or effectiveness much reduced or occasional admin days. I am a nurse, I know teachers, musicians, photographers, sound techs, retail workers, builders, storesmen, landscape gardeners, ship crew, museum workers, cooks, hospitality workers
MY guess would be a few % of the population could WFH most days and another few % occasional days. Most people its just not possible
I was hoping that COVID may show the population that we do so much wasted travelling that causes environmental damage, but I don’t think we will learn the lessons.
Nobody needs to fly from one end of the country to the other for an important business meeting, let alone another country.
For years people have been getting a job 50 miles from where they live because they can’t get the same job on their door step, yet Joe Bloggs has been make the exact same opposite journey because they can’t get a job on their doorstep.
I’m not sure how you put that one right be it is ridiculous
It reminds me of the EV conversation. Many people use the extreme example to justify the everyday.
Moving from the Victorian concept of "presenteesim" which I still see in my workplace, (strangely often from very young members of the management team) to a totally agile and digital organisation is a continuum. Many organisations can free up a considerable part of the workforce to work in this way. The current situation has forced this change very quickly and although there has been a lot of scrabbling about many organisations have adapted very quickly in order to survive. or at least to avoid a huge financial and organisational impact then restrictions are eventually lifted.
Of course a huge number of companies cannot work in this way, we all know that and they are being severely impacted right now. My own company has been moving slowly along this continuum and it has been interesting to see those who have been obstructive and non cooperative to actually change overnight to deliver our services..
MY guess would be a few % of the population could WFH most days and another few % occasional days.
Why not look up the numbers of how many actually do rather than guess? They were a fair bit higher than that before lockdown. Obviously the number who could will be even higher than the number who do. I expect we will see a jump, especially in the second group.
TJ - I guess it depends on your social circle. Out of my friends, I would give a finger in the air guesstimate of >80% of them could all work from home. So certainly not only a few % based on my estimations.
For me, I would like to see an increase in wfh when this all ends. So perhaps most people wfh 1 or 2 days a week, leaving the rest of the time available for face 2 face work. Over time, I think (hope) that will increase further.
I only live a mile from the office though so don’t have a crappy commute (in normal times). I also worked shorter hours in the office, generally 7am-4pm, traffic on the business park starts going mental after 4pm (can take 30+ minutes to get out of it at times)
Are you really driving to work? Even though it's a mile, and the traffic on s so bad it affects your working hours?
If only there were other ways to move from one close-by location to another!
TJ – I guess it depends on your social circle. Out of my friends, I would give a finger in the air guesstimate of >80% of them could all work from home. So certainly not only a few % based on my estimations.
For me, I would like to see an increase in wfh when this all ends. So perhaps most people wfh 1 or 2 days a week, leaving the rest of the time available for face 2 face work. Over time, I think (hope) that will increase further.
There certainly are jobs that need hands on. But there are many which don't, and with a bit of creativity many jobs have elements that can be done remotely.
The cumulative effects of a small change in behaviour could benefit all. If the subway line you use operates at 95% capacity (and things run smoothly) VS it running at 105% and being unreliable and an awful experience.
If the roads are a bit quieter so flow better and journey times drop for all.
It's worth trying to make the change, it could benefit *everyone*, including those who can't WFH even if they wanted to.
For years people have been getting a job 50 miles from where they live because they can’t get the same job on their door step, yet Joe Bloggs has been make the exact same opposite journey because they can’t get a job on their doorstep.
The price of housing is a massive part of this. Lots of people get 1hr + train rides into London every day. I'd rather stick pins in my eyes tbh but there you go. A lot of my colleges think I'm odd living a 10min cycle from work as its "too close", I might meet kids I teach and they need that down time of driving too and from work, how strange is that.
A lot of the people who work in London do so because of all the offices there. If 50% of the office workers are not there, we'll have to find lot more jobs for all the service industry folks to do...
FWIW, I already have agreement to work 2 days a week at home, fixed days which has pros and cons. There are some jobs (as above rare design sessions, brainstorming etc) that are much better in person. You can do it remotely, but even with travel time, it's more efficient in the same room.
I can see a time where we stack a few of those up so a fortnight of workshops is done in one hit.
In the 12-month period from January to December 2019, there were an estimated 1.7 million people who said that they work mainly from home; this represents just over 5% of the total workforce.
Spent the last 8 years working from home, travelling to offices/customers when I had to, lucky that I have a spare bedroom converted to office/studio and previous company I worked for paid for height adjustable desk and good chair (and didn't ask for them back when they made me redundant).
Last couple of years I've been splitting my time between home and Germany, Slovakia and Sweden, January I travelled every week, 16 flights. Over the last 3 years I've flown well over 100 times, really played havoc with my riding and other hobbies, I'm really hoping that things do not go back to how they were before, I expect company will want to continue to save money and will realise that F2F is not required permanently, 1 week a month in Slovakia or Germany would be nice, rest of the time at home would be ideal.
I’ve not done a design/requirements session since being in lockdown so will be interesting to see how it goes, MS teams might help.
Yes, the sessions where you get a group in a room and everyone can scribble on the same wall and rearrange post it notes will be the most difficult thing to replicate when WFH. I'm sure improved virtual whiteboard software will help with this, but it's difficult to get the same free flow of discussion and ideas on a remote call. Not being able to have quick discussions about questions or issues that come up during the day makes WFH a bit harder as well.
Having said that, I'm working on an IT change project for a national retail bank, and my team have all been WFH since before the official lockdown (as is most of the bank office staff). I'm sure there are a lot of organisations looking at how they have been working under lockdown and seriously thinking about whether they are going to keep running large, expensive central offices in the future.
In the 12-month period from January to December 2019, there were an estimated 1.7 million people who said that they work mainly from home; this represents just over 5% of the total workforce.
That's the people who were already full time home workers before Coronavirus, but what is more interesting in that report is all the other home workers, including 8.7 million people who have worked from home at some time. I was in that group, and have gone from occasional WFH to full time WFH. If a substantial number of those people move to full time WFH that is a not insignificant % of the working population.
Yes, the sessions where you get a group in a room and everyone can scribble on the same wall and rearrange post it notes will be the most difficult thing to replicate when WFH. I’m sure improved virtual whiteboard software will help with this, but it’s difficult to get the same free flow of discussion and ideas on a remote call.
Yeah there are virtual whiteboard solutions (Webex has it built in) but drawing is a bit of a pain if you aren't on a tablet with a pen.
Not being able to have quick discussions about questions or issues that come up during the day makes WFH a bit harder as well.
Slack does this very well for us. If you have even a few people on the team who use it well it becomes critical mass and everyone starts to use it cos that's where the info is. I try to be that person because I'm quite good at chatting online. I must've had a lot of practice somewhere....
Slack does this very well for us
We're not allowed slack, but we do have Skype for Business open all day. It's the main communication channel in the bank.
Have been tempted to get one of those permanent chat rooms set up, but not got round to it..
If 50% of the office workers are not there, we’ll have to find lot more jobs for all the service industry folks to do…
The biggest thing I've noticed about working from home is that I save loads of money. Simply by taking away the need to commute into Manchester, and all the frivolous spending that it incurs I'm saving at least 5-600 quid a month. That's a lot of money to suck out of a local economy, and if it turns into a permanent shift away from commuting and working in cities it's going to require some novel policies to avoid those cities turning into boarded up wastelands.
it’s going to require some novel policies to avoid those cities turning into boarded up wastelands.
Or we could redevelop them so people could live closer to the work and facilities in the city
Simply by taking away the need to commute into Manchester, and all the frivolous spending that it incurs I’m saving at least 5-600 quid a month. That’s a lot of money to suck out of a local economy,
How much of that actually goes into the local economy though? Surely the majority goes to Shell or Arriva / Stagecoach / etc?
And although some of that money will be removed from Manchester city centre, it could be redirected to towns and villages around the cities, creating jobs (pubs/shops etc) to boost our moribund commuter villages and decentralise the economy a little?
How much of that actually goes into the local economy though? Surely the majority goes to Shell or Arriva / Stagecoach / etc?
The profits will end up outside, but the vast majority of the cash will go to pay salaries and rents etc and pay local suppliers. I agree it's a great opportunity to decentralise the economy and regenerate towns and villages, but there's a huge danger that deprivation and social decay will set in within big cities. It resembles what happened in the 80s, where a big change in the economy is about to occur. Back then it was industrial and mining communities which became redundant, today it's going to be city centres. I guess the question is whether history repeats itself and those affected are left to deal with it on their own with no support?
The biggest thing I’ve noticed about working from home is that I save loads of money. Simply by taking away the need to commute into Manchester, and all the frivolous spending that it incurs I’m saving at least 5-600 quid a month. That’s a lot of money to suck out of a local economy.
As a former Credit underwriter and debt adviser, I wouldn't worry about people suddenly having hundreds of pounds extra a month deciding to save it. Despite what various forums and Social Media platforms might lead you to believe, most people don't save much, they'll just find something else to buy.
I know from my own experience of the last 2 months, the committed consumers in my life (my Wife and Mum mostly) have found whole new ways to exchange money for crap.
Unless you physically cant do your work at home then I don't see it as an issue. Meetings are still plentiful. I'm busy as ever.
Home working is a pretty big intervention in reducing traffic in light of the climate change emergency and has been thought about for years but just needed a push.
Plenty of companies should use it to boost their climate impact.
I don't see the dis-benefits. Face to face will still be important but that may just have to be organised as and when.
As for decaying cities, believe it or not, some people do generally like living in Cities. Some people REALLY Love shopping in them, socialising etc. Madness I know.
They'll change, but they always have and rather than assuming change will always be bad, I look at whats happened to Cities and small towns in my lifetime, even if whatever proportion of people who WFH now continue to do so when lock-down ends the shift will probably only reverse a few years of movement that way.
Using Cities as places to have large offices was already on the slide because of the costs, maybe almost ironically home working may reverse that trend in the short-term.
Some people REALLY Love shopping in them, socialising etc. Madness I know.
Well apart from the fact that shopping and socialising doesn't look like it'll be returning any time soon, if you take away the footfall from office workers then it's inevitably going to result in the closure of huge numbers of bars, restaurants, coffee shops etc. Even when they're allowed to again, no ones going to want to hang out in a city centre which is mostly boarded up.
I only live a mile from the office though so don’t have a crappy commute (in normal times). I also worked shorter hours in the office, generally 7am-4pm, traffic on the business park starts going mental after 4pm (can take 30+ minutes to get out of it at times)
Are you really driving to work? Even though it’s a mile, and the traffic on s so bad it affects your working hours?
If only there were other ways to move from one close-by location to another!
C'mon, enlighten us!
As for decaying cities, believe it or not, some people do generally like living in Cities. Some people REALLY Love shopping in them, socialising etc. Madness I know.
+1, and to add this, probably the worse thing about city life is the number of commuters coming in. Increased traffic, parking issues, large areas devoted to inaccessible office blocks. Not a massive problem and its part of city life but if we have to lose something in the "new normal", then losing some of this may not be a disaster.
Hah yes I do :p Part laziness but also it takes me 20 minutes to walk it and I like popping home for lunch but if I walk it I spend most of my lunch time walking and then would be rushing to sort food. Weak excuses I know - for sure if I regularly got caught in traffic I'd walk more often but my normal commute times are 6:50am there and 3:50pm back and then it's 5 minutes for my commute as I miss the traffic.
I've really been though the emotional ringer with WFH, but I've mostly gotten used to it now, this is my 8th week WFH.
Someone mentioned the EV discussion above and I agree. At the moment the biggest barrier for me (apart from everyone being at home as well). I've used a desktop with dual monitors for years. So I brought them home, 2x 1080 24" monitors and I use them effectively. I 'need' dual monitors, which take up a huge amount of room. I've also had to bring my office chair home my back was in bits.
It's not a post-covid solution, it takes up too much room, it's causing too much disruption at home and there's no where else to practically set it up.
Maybe I'm being 'That Guy' who won't buy an EV in case they suddenly want to drive to Timbuktu, but I've looked at easy solutions but there's no where to set up a desk in my house, when I wfh in the past it's been my laptop on the table, but my back hurts, the screen hurts my eyes and trying to do my job single screen is hard.
Solutions range from a 'summer house' with power and rudimentary heating / security for £4k, a single story extension on the side of the house for £16k - £20k or convert the (Concrete pre-fab) garage for about £12k. I don't have that sort of money in savings so it's borrow it, or ask my Boss to pay for it.
When I used to consult on WFH for clients we always mentioned the old "move to the country and buy a Mansion for the price of your Suburban house" but now it's not so theoretical, the boring practicalities of things like telling kids their moving schools, stamp duty and the fact 'nice' rural places aren't that cheap, especially if they're on the fibre grid have been brought home.
Folk working at home will still want to get out of the house during the day for a leg-stretch, some fresh air, a coffee. They'll walk past small shops as they do so, maybe buying some food or a magazine. They might meet up with other homeworkers for a chat.
All of these "services" will just be transplanted from city centres to more suburban locations.
City centres will adapt, especially as they become more live-able, not being dedicated to large numbers of commuters. There could be more pedestrianisation as there's no need to have roads dedicated to commuters. Many folk might choose to move back into the city centres to actually live without all the traffic, noise and pollution.
Can't wait to get back into the office.
Missing out on so much helpful interactions /learning/sharing that comes from sharing an office space and overhearing conversations etc. You learn so much from other people just by being around them.
Also useful connections are formed with team members e.g. through going for lunch together.
I miss the gentle chat - like you can chat and do some easy work at the same time - I can' type on teams text chat and work at the same time. So now you either work or chat not both at the same time.
Everything takes longer - even with my super fast virgin cable connection - uploading is slow and connecting to the office systems is bad. Sharing screens and going thru excel models is deathly bad for connections as well.
It is harder to ask juniors to pick up some small tasks as you can't see them and see who is busy or not!
I miss the exercise of the commute.
I miss the social interaction.
I miss eating lunch that I haven't had to make!
I work in a team of about 60 people, then we have smaller teams of 2-10 on multiple projects at any time. Our work is highly interdependent on each other.
Yes yes sharing screens and video conferencing works OK, but it is absolutely not as good as sitting next to someone and going through things.
And the 'flexibility' that can f right off - I don't WANT you spending the afternoon riding you bike, only to email me at 11pm for something I've been waiting for all day... that needs to go to a client ASAP. Likewise I don't want you sending me emails from 5.30am and wanting an immediate response from me because you need to get all your work done in the AM because you look after the kids in the PM. We ave core business hours for a practical reason.
I already had an OK home working set up - but to work full time at home I'd want a larger and more professional office set up. So where is that space going to come from? Who is going to pay for the screens and the chair etc? Not work that's for sure they have made clear...
For some personality types, and for some jobs, WFH 100% is great. Not for me.
They might meet up with other homeworkers for a chat.
Can't really talk about work with random other home workers! Most people have confidentiality issues.
Folk working at home will still want to get out of the house during the day for a leg-stretch, some fresh air, a coffee.
I've swapped my walk (from work) to the local coop to buy a sandwich to a walk (from home) to a different local coop to buy stuff to make sandwiches at home. If anything I'm probably spending slightly more making my own sandwiches...
I miss the exercise of the commute.
+1
Very much this!
Can’t really talk about work with random other home workers! Most people have confidentiality issues.
LOL. Why would you want to talk about work?
I miss the exercise of the commute.
So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?
Maybe it's just a personality-type thing that some folk can't imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?
So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?
Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?
It does seem crazy how much some people like the lack of freedom. I suppose you could get up at the same time, ride half way to work then ride home and start work. You will still get your commute in. Or you can do whatever exercise you fancy, whenever you fancy it (currently this is a little restricted, but it won't be forever).
I'd consider all my colleagues to be my friends (not my best friends, and we may have disagreements).
Thats fine for now, and pre furlough, we could still get on and have virtual social interactions on teams, whatsapp etc.
If this is forever though, eventually there will be new colleagues, who we wont know from Adam. they wont be able to join the banter, and they'll be second class citizens.
Eventually everyone will move jobs or retire so 40 years of being sat in your spare bedroom with no socialization will be the norm.
I've got my hobbies, close friends, family near by. (none of these under current lockdown, obviously). Some colleagues with kids have said that work is their only adult interaction most weeks. They would suffer hugely from this.
I miss the exercise of the commute.
So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?
Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?
Everyone's situation is different, I know when I was self-employed before I had kids I still 'commuted' I left my house, jumped on my bike and rode a 60 mins loop, I especially liked crossing the bridge over the busy road full of near static traffic.
I've been doing it for 8.5 years now. 3 days at home, 2 in the office. Absolutely love the WFH bit. The office bit sucks donkey balls.
The biggest problem is trying to schedule all the necessary face-face stuff for the limited office time, in combination with everyone else's diaries and the screwed up train pricing system which very much limits when I can afford to travel.
I'm an antisocial sod at the best of times (social distancing is an awesome concept IMO), so I'm quite happy being sat at home on my own. Missing out on the office scuttlebutt can occasionally catch me out, but I'm very happy to exchange that for the ability to focus on what's in front of me, without countless trivial interruptions. The big benefit is time efficiency. Its not so much about "skiving off for a ride" as being able to get all the daft domestic chores done (shopping, washing, cleaning) during the natural breaks in the working day or while waiting for info on tasks, that then mean your evenings are completely free. Equally, as it takes most of my lot a long time to get going in the morning (in at a very loose 9.00ish, coffee, chat, catch up with emails etc), nothing is usually happening to bother me before 10.00, so leave the house before 8.00, get 20-25 miles in on the roadie, swing past the coffee shop and the bakery for beans and bread on the way home, at my desk for 10.00, work until its all done.
We bought our house based on us both home working, so have an office each. I built my desk myself; using my grandfathers old mahogany office chair; plenty of room for a twin screen set up. I'm very reliant on having good IT support, as if that falls down, I can't do anything productive. Over the last few years there's been more of a move for all our project managers to be fully functional on the move, so they can be productive from coffee bars in between meetings, or at home out-of-hours, so we were all in a good place once the lockdown hit. The only problem being that the events industry is currently non-existent!
Again, I'm not sure anyone is saying working from home or in the office has to be a permanent every day of the week fixture? Why do we polarise every discussion on here to the extreme positions?
Some days I want to be in the office for meetings or general interaction, some days I want to work at home, some days it may suit me to do a bit of both.
And anyone who wants to go into the office for the exercise commute - that shows a lack of imagination - ride half way there and back before logging on at home?
Eventually everyone will move jobs or retire so 40 years of being sat in your spare bedroom with no socialization will be the norm.
Only if you choose to sit in your bedroom for 40 years
I myself will choose the rowing/running/cycling/open water swimming groups. Which I mostly used to miss pre coronavirus, that is until I started WFH.
I’ll also choose to go for lunch at the local cafe/pub. Catch up with all the other people carrying dog faeces in bags in the local parks. Grab a up of tea with the neighbour whilst he welds together his truck....again! Maybe even do a spot of gardening on my lunch break!
I‘ll also take the opportunity to do almost all of my food shopping on the local high street, particularly the greengrocers, but the fishmongers and butchers are there for you too. They need the business as much as any place near work!
The office bit sucks donkey balls.
😂
LOL. Why would you want to talk about work?
Why would I talk to some other random home workers full stop? I have actual real friends to talk about non-work stuff with 🙂 Speaking with colleagues over lunch/coffee is a key thing that is missing form the WFH environment for me. And of course we talk about work with colleagues, there is generally something interesting going on (obvs we like our work or we wouldn't do it!).
So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?
Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?
I am getting actual exercise sessions in every day, but in normal life I've fast-walked for a minimum of 40 mins a day as part of my commute to/from the tube station, or biked for 40-50 mins a day to/from the office - before I've even done my 'real' exercise sessions. Plus all the walking around the office, to/from meetings and up and down the stairs in a 14 floor block - it all adds up you don't have to think about it or plan for it, and you're being obtuse to not recognise that. I've really noticed how rubbish it is being so sedentary in a small house and only going out once a day for exercise.
I guess this sedentary WFH lifestyle is maybe more similar to many office workers 'norm', especially if people drive to work then just plonk at their desk every day?
Also its not like I've gained any extra time WFH - any savings in commute time has been more than eaten up by additional workload - see my earlier post about more projects, process taking longer, and missmatch in colleagues working hours sapping my own free time.
If this is forever though, eventually there will be new colleagues, who we wont know from Adam. they wont be able to join the banter, and they’ll be second class citizens.
I also think this is an important point.
It is easy enough now to have a friday social on Teanms, or to catch up with a coffee with a colleague virtually now - because we have pre-existing relationships forged though natural social interaction.
I am unsure how it would work with new people if most were to habitually WFH.
Obviously some people don't give a shiny fig about social interaction with their team - but actually quite a lot of people seem to really care about team interaction and feeling like part of a community.
Again, I’m not sure anyone is saying working from home or in the office has to be a permanent every day of the week fixture? Why do we polarise every discussion on here to the extreme positions?
This is a key point. My organisation (one of the big IT consultancies) has a formal policy of “work where you [i]need[/i] to work”[1].
We’re either at home, in one of our offices, on a client site, or anywhere in between and nobody cares as long as the work is delivered and the client is happy with it. As a result, 270,000 people upped sticks and moved home a few weeks ago, and when this finishes they’ll all go back to where they need to be in order to deliver their best work. For some this will be home, for others on-site, for others the office and it’ll vary from day to day. There is rightly no one-size-fits-all.
[1] And “wear what you [i]need[/i] to wear” as well, which is nice.
Surely the point is that hopefully many more people will be able to work from home a few days a week if it suits them. Those who have to commute will then benefit from reduced commuting traffic / less crammed trains.
I've worked from home for 7 years, 2.5 as an employee, 2 as a one man band, and 4 as a 2 man band. Prior to that my commute was 1hr each, and prior to that I could walk or ride into the city centre office. Each has their advantage that suited me a different times of my life.
After 4 years of meeting in person a few times a month a using Google hangouts as a virtual of by business partner and I finally decided we needed to get a shared office if we were to progress the business. In a case of epically bad timing we moved in to the office 2 weeks before lockdown!
Obviously some people don’t give a shiny fig about social interaction with their team
*Puts hand up*
I couldn't give a stuff about interacting with my colleagues. The vast majority of them are shallow attention seeking idiots or corporate clones who continually use phrases such as 'reaching out', 'resonating' and 'engaging'. WFH allows me to avoid all these people and the inane banter (I really don't care what you did at the weekend!) and just get the bloody work done in the least possible time. I also save £20-30 a day which I would have spent on train fares, coffees, lunches, snacks etc. It's like getting a £500 a month pay rise for not having to be surrounded by idiots all day.
LOL. Why would you want to talk about work?
Must be me then, but I spend a lot of my non work time thinking about work, working through problems. In fact, most problems get solved when I'm not at work; I find mulling ideas over is far more productive than actively thinking about them...
Surely the point is that hopefully many more people will be able to work from home a few days a week if it suits them. Those who have to commute will then benefit from reduced commuting traffic / less crammed trains.
This, I suspect work will become more flexible rather than everyone just staying WFH.
I know from my own experience of the last 2 months, the committed consumers in my life (my Wife and Mum mostly) have found whole new ways to exchange money for crap.
This made me laugh although my spender seems to have calmed down for the moment.
WFH is extremely difficult for single parents, especially without any available childcare. I wonder if this shift in working practices will mean that less women work in positions and industries where WFH will become the norm.
WFH is extremely difficult for single parents, especially without any available childcare.
How did they manage when they were told to be at an office?
WFH is extremely difficult for single parents, especially without any available childcare.
How did they manage when they were told to be at an office?
Agreed.
I lot of us are moaning about trying to work with kids at home, but it's doable, it's certainly more doable than taking sub school age kids to a normal workplace.
Obviously some people don’t give a shiny fig about social interaction with their team
Me
Nor do I think about work outside of work. Work is work, home is home and I never mix the two
corporate clones who continually use phrases such as ‘reaching out’, ‘resonating’ and ‘engaging’.
I find this harder to deal with at home.
In the office I can switch on my glazed look, remembering to nod gently every 20 seconds or so while looking out the window and thinking about more interesting things as that sort of "we are pivoting to engaging in that space" BS is in it's natural environment.
At home it's jarring, hearing assholes coming out with that sort of guff in my house.
When people were required to attend their place of work grandparents helped out, schools were open, and wrap around care was available, it's not now unless you are a key worker. This leaves the primary carer (mainly women) at a disadvantage as they are trying to balance work with the additional responsibilities of care and education.
I think people are taking a longer view than just during the current pandemic.
All those support mechanisms will return.
In the office I can switch on my glazed look
Switch Teams microphone to mute
Ensure sufficient tilt on laptop screen, and therefore camera
Grab iPad
Browse internet