[Closed] Work related expenses (wtf content)

Probably based on HRMC guidance.

they'll let you claim for breakfast and dinner even if you start/finish from home? sounds pretty reasonable to me. you'd have to sort your own lunch out anyway, right?

If I were at home or staying at home I could take sandwiches, at a cost of a few pence.

So if I have to pay £5-6 I'm out of pocket.

lunch you'd have regardless - breakfast and dinner are to cover for that fact that you've had to do something outside of your normal routine because of a business requirement.

buy a loaf of bread and some jam - you can make sandwiches in a hotel room 😉

lunch you'd have regardless

Not for £5. I don't pop out to Pret a Manger when I'm at home!

But they WILL let me claim if there's no on-site catering. That makes no sense. Either I'm entitled to claim lunch or I'm not. The presence of on-site catering doesn't make a difference.. UNLESS by 'on-site catering' they really mean 'free on-site catering'.

If you're popping out to Pret then that would suggest that on-site catering isn't available so should be a legitimate expense claim 😀

As said previously make your own lunch.
I'm sure you get enough notice of being away.
Is it in your contract that all food is provided?
If not be thankful for what you get.

I'm amazed nobody has suggested you join a union.

I've had similar discussions with out FD about lunch expenses and can see the logic that you would eat it anyway and the other two are to compensate for being away from home on work time when you would normally have finished for the day.

In theory though you're right that if you were at home it would cost significantly less than eating from service stations or cafes in London so you end up out of pocket.

Raise it with them and see what they say.

Make my own lunch? So what, take five lots of cheese sandwiches in my suitcase? Don't fancy eating those on a Friday.

There is a canteen at the place I work currently but it's not significantly cheaper than the outside options.

I don't get it - I'm out of pocket, so why I can't I claim it?

I'll email them later, but I doubt I'll be the first.

no shops in that there london ?

Eat a big breakfast and evening meal
Or suck it up and pay tight arse.

you could put the tub of marge and block of cheese in the mini-bar and make the sandwiches each morning.

or do you not normally have to make your own lunch?

That sounds like the same as my place, the on-site catering is subsidised so cheaper than Pret therefore they will fund your Pret lunch but not your work's canteen lunch. (The Ivy is probably cheaper than Pret though).

In reality it's all a bit moot, depends who signs off your expenses. Had a couple of weeks in Amsterdam, best work's canteen ever, all expensed.

why cant you take cheap nasty sandwiches to London?

Five days' worth?

On-site catering is sometimes cheap, but so what? If it's that cheap you can reimburse me for it, can't you? And it's often not - many canteens are just as expensive as lunch out.

If I'm in London then I have to pay £6 or whatever every day

Or buy a sandwich from Tesco/Sainsbury/local shop

It REALLY isn't that difficult.

Eat a big breakfast and evening meal
Or suck it up and pay tight arse.

If you are away and claming for breakfast and dinner you are not having to eat your own food at home and use your own gas/electricity. All you have to do is buy yourself a £3 meal deal from somewhere for lunch or a bank busting £5. Wow!

Net result is you are actually better off as all you are having to buy is lunch every day. Unless you normally manage to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner for less than £5 a day?

Can you not have an all day breakfast at lunch time? Take that accounts nerds.

£5/day is £130/mo. So on a three month assignment that adds up to the price of a pair of forks; on a six month assignment it's the price of a bike.

Not insignificant to me.

If I'm in a hotel I can only charge for brekkie at the hotel. However eating a big one of those and skipping lunch might be the only cheap option.

Ham and coleslaw from M&S - £1.45

Add a banana if you're still hungry. Or drink a big glass of water.

buffet breakfast? make some sandwiches to take with you.

or work somewhere with a better expenses policy. ours is 'don't take the piss'

£5/day is £130/mo. So on a three month assignment that adds up to the price of a pair of forks; on a six month assignment it's the price of a bike.

Not insignificant to me.

Your maths could do with a bit of work.

I'd guess they mean free on site canteen. We can claim lunch if we're away from work....

Your maths could do with a bit of work.

I meant £6/day, typo 🙂

I ask again, was this included in your contract of employment?
If yes (I imagine it would be)why are you crying here?
We all eat lunch and its not free.

I can claim a subs allowance if I'm away from my normal place of work £5 or £10 depending on the length of time away, needs to be backed up with a receipt for some sort of food on the day concerned, breakfast and evening meal can be still claimed for as per the usual early start/staying away rules.

However the way our place observes the HMRC guidelines is that whilst you get the £5 or £10 thru expenses there is a deduction from your wages the next month such that you only end up ahead by the amount of tax you would pay on the £5 or £10 in your wages.

£5/day is £130/mo. So on a three month assignment that adds up to the price of a pair of forks; on a six month assignment it's the price of a bike.

Not insignificant to me.

Holy crap I need to start bringing in lunches. I spend on average £6/day for lunch!

Be grateful that you're getting anything at all!
Some people are unbelievable
£6 per day for lunch? Butty, Apple and a coffee. £2.50 in Manchester.
I hope your HR dept have a sense of humour.

from what i remember when cotracting there was a big whoo har from HMRC saying if you were an employee you would have to fund or provide lunches yourself as you would any other working day

this was countermanded kind of by the worker who whilst working away say they lived in scotland but were working in london did not have facilities to make dinner ta breakfast etc

The HMRC GUIDLINE is 5 quid was allowable as a single meal payment rising to double that for a dual meal payment lunch and breakfast with you having to provide your own evening meal regardless of where you are even then if HMRC are in the mood they will redact all that has gone before and say screw you guys

If they were giving you a small pay cut to work at a particular site, I'm sure you'd be complaing too.

£2.50 in Manchester

Where I'm not.

£12.50/week then. Loaf of bread and some cheese = £4.50.

£12.50 - £4.50 = £8 out of pocket

The issue is why do they let you claim lunch unless there's 'on-site catering'? That's what doesn't make sense.

Grab a croissant and an apple from the hotel breakfast buffet?

Too much cheese is bad for you anyway.

Have you spoken to the people that do the expenses to clear up what 'on-site catering' means?

Quite a few of our larger neighbours, on the business park, provide free lunches to all their staff on site, no idea what the tax position is on that. Seems quite enlightened thinking from Cambridge Consultants, CSR (Cambridge Silicon Radio), Redgate etc...

I would indeed. So why not ask for a a weekly expense so you can organise a cheaper hotel, maybe even a temporary flatshare.
You can do these things much cheaper than work organise.
This money you save will help a lot.

Sandwich and apple from Sainsbury's (national chain). Coffee from McDonalds (international chain). Stop whining and be grateful for what you have.

They aren't flexible.

You can get an allowance instead of expenses if your assignment is longer than three months. Mine is almost never that long in one place.

Sandwich and apple from Sainsbury's (national chain). Coffee from McDonalds (international chain). Stop whining and be grateful for what you have.

Stop answering the wrong question.

Be grateful for what you have.. yeah, thanks, that's a brilliant idea. We should all be grateful for bad policy.

Monksie +1000

I have the same thing, no lunch allowance when working on another site that belongs to the company, we get £5 if working on a client site or elsewhere. I work in London a lot, there is a subsidised canteen where I am, but the canteen can't/won't cater for my dietary needs (coeliac) so I have no choice but to go to the more expensive shops, and work won't cover it.

I bring lunch from home if I'm just down for the day, but can't do that if I'm staying overnight. If I am staying in a hotel with a fridge in the room, it's easier, but not all places have that facility.

You could get a hotel with breakfast included, and then buy your lunch in the morning and use the breakfast allowance....

I appreciate your situation so you just have to make it work. Massive breakfast but save the sauasages and some bread and make a sandwich for later. You could even do a similar thing in the evening.

We have the same policy at our place -
However we're also allowed £5 per day 'incidental expenses/allowance' to spend on coffes/newspapers/phone calls/etc - so lunch normally comes out of that, otherwise -

Eat as much as possible for breakfast
Thieve as much as possible from the breakfast buffet
Buy lunch at Tesco metro/Sainsburys local, rather than Costa or Pret.
Eat loads for dinner.

Repeat.

anyway:

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I just wondered if anyone knew if there was some kind of hard hmrc-related rule, or if this was common everywhere.

Go on the 5:2 diet. But... save breakfast/dinner from the off days for lunch on the on-days.

doesnt sound like bad policy to me molgrips. sounds quite fair and sensible in fact

sounds like you want your cake and eat it.

Why is it fair? Makes no sense.

Lunch is claimable unless there's a canteen. What difference does the canteen make?

Buy sandwiches from tesco at 11:30 pm
They will be 20 pence
Put them in the hotel room fridge
Take them to work
Put them in work fridge
Take them out lunchtime
Prepare a glass of water
Drink water and enjoy sandwiches
Total cost = 20 pence

Again, why are you crying here?

Have you thought about busking for your lunch?

My employer doesn't pay for any of my food or travel expenses. Just the amount of money they've agreed to pay me for the work I've agreed to do.
Feeling overly self entitled at all Mr Mol Gripes?

Claim tax relief on it?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-allow-ees.htm

£12.50/week then. Loaf of bread and some cheese = £4.50.
£12.50 - £4.50 = £8 out of pocket

You are having breakfast and evening meal paid for all week.

So do you spend less than £8/week on breakfast and an evening meal when you are at home.

If not then I'm not sure what the issue is ?

£12.50/week then. Loaf of bread and some cheese = £4.50.

£12.50 - £4.50 = £8 out of pocket

To get like for like you need to add all your costs - capital expenses on hardware, marg, overhead (electricity to keep the marg and cheese cool), depreciation on the fridge, wear and tear on the knife, chopping board and tupperware, plus of course your time as labour...

Just think of the savings buying a sandwich 😉

There's no HMRC policy on it from what I know, in theory they don't need to provide any expenses policy at all.

You also have very little recourse if that was the policy when you started working for the company so you can't argue it is a change in terms and conditions.

Be creative.

Box of cereal bars in the back of the car so;

- large breakfast
- cereal bar when hungry
- evening meal

The company makes the rules and pays for you to work within their framework. If they are totally un-flexible on your requirements then you have two choices, work within the framework or leave. Try talking to them first though.

This is often the way. Person spends 1hr on the internet in work time moaning to random strangers about not being able to claim £5 🙂 Irony? Where?

Your line manager (the one who authorises your x's) should be able to explain otherwise how is he/she passing them now? FWIW, when I worked at one of the big IT Consultancies, we went through a change like this. We were allowed to claim lunches on Client sites and the rules were changed due to 'HMRC fiddling about' or so we were told. I started doing a lot more Client entertaining.... 🙂

£6/day is £130/mo. So on a three month assignment that adds up to the price of a pair of forks; on a six month assignment it's the price of a bike.

Are you not saving the cost of breakfast and evening meal? So, you come out on top anyway?

Our rule for expenses is "don't take the piss" 🙂

I hope your getting your Personal Incidental Expenses too - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/nimmanual/nim06020.htm

<serious mode>
If you do a tax return, then you may be able to claim some of the tax back on items you've paid for as expenses - obviously it will depend on the detail of your company policy / HMRC limits etc. Speak to a good accountant </serious mode>

quit your bleating.

i work in west africa and get 32GBP(before tax) to feed my self for all three meals when working in the base.

even going to the shops i cant eat for that unless i want to eat garri and igusi soup. - one meal out in somewhere you would actually want to eat could cost you more than our daily allowance.

what i do - take a heap of food from the uk with me.

Our place keeps it simple- working away from home is disruptive on all levels so if in doubt, they err on the side of the employee. This costs entire pounds, sometimes tens of pounds at a time but helps keep people happy.

[img] [/img]

On a short business trip, say upto 2 weeks I can claim all three meals. Longer "assignments" are classified as being your normal place of work so meals are not claimable. Pret's expensive, Tesco Metro, M&S food, etc

This costs entire pounds, sometimes tens of pounds at a time but helps keep people happy.

You need to join a union, they'll soon negotiate away such frivolous perks and have you all out on strike demanding bread and water......

anyway, while this is all fascinating, i've got two dogs to walk in the sun, before heading for the airport for a few days work in scandanavia, where i will 'luxuriate' in the 30GBP/day sustenance allowance i negotiated in to the contract. breaky is provided by the hotel, and there's a site canteen, which is free to me...
😀

[img] &w=352&h=249[/img]

we get 30 quid a day, spend it how you want. Spend small on lunch, nice dinner, then a few beers for the train home.

[img] [/img]

if it makes you feel better mol im having a home made ham salad , a poppyseed sub with left overs of last nights roast and some salad in , a rice pot and a heap of fruit..... cost about a quid.

My employer doesn't pay for any of my food or travel expenses.

[img] [/img]

i work in west africa and get 32GBP(before tax) to feed my self for all three meals when working in the base.

even going to the shops i cant eat for that unless i want to eat garri and igusi soup. - one meal out in somewhere you would actually want to eat could cost you more than our daily allowance.

Do you not buy local food? All the locals in Ghana / Kenya etc just seem to eat goat / rice fry ups cooked fresh on the street. Not got ill so far eating local stuff (as long as it's fried in front of me, I'll risk it).

On a per diem thing here. UK company was £100/day, notionally split as £60 for hotel, £40 for food, phone calls, compensation, etc. Here the rate varies depending on visited country. No claiming back for specific meals or expenses, just an automatic N days+nights and the expenses form is filled in automatically from the travel request form.

if it's just travelling kind of within normal commuting hours, then there are no expenses afaik. some visited site will give a free visitor lunch voucher, others expect you to pay just like I'd have to do anyway.

6 weeks in French Guiana paid quite well 😉

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Shoplift

IT consultant poverty, the shocking truth

This expose of the way defenceless middle managers are exploited for their lunch money will outrage and offend. Only read on if you have the stomach for it.

It has come to our attention that people with barey the means to feed an expensive bicycle habit are routinely forced into feeding themselves. This can even take the form of buying bacon and cheese croissants ot popyseeded prawn and maire rose baguettes. Surely this madness has to STOP before somebody gets disgruntled or even irrtated. Can you help? We are appealing for volunteers to take these unfortunates in and give them complementary finger buffets, if you've got a minor glitch in your database and fancy spending thousands on an ineffective solution outsourced to the subcontinent let us know and we'll send a couple of theese pillocks round to snarf your goujons with dippers.

footflaps - we aint even allowed off the truck between camp and the base in nigeria.

im not "that fussy" but - like you if its cooked infront of me i have no issue BUT its very rare i see that where i work and most of it as i say is igusi soup and garri.

Good old STW 🙄

Most companies will allow lunch to be claimed in the circumstances you descripe molly. If yours don't then they're a bit crap and you need to decide how big an issue that is for you.

Obviously this is a first world issue but then I expect that most of the people pointing that out have plenty of their own FWIs that they complain about too.

Case in point (sorry, just the most recent one having a go at Molly)

The stabiliser:
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/woe-is-me-bletherbarrow-sanitised

It's a complete non-issue in the scheme of things, isn't it.