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I'm a first aider at work, which is very unexciting in a large civil service office, though some of tbe paper cuts really sting.
Tannoy early this morning for first aiders to report to an incident in one of the meeting rooms. When we got there, some poor lady was clearly having at best a severe panic attack and at worst a full breakdown. A couple of female first aiders, one of whom was a mental health first aider, took charge and the rest of us left, but it's really shaken me, seeing her so distressed in that environment.
Wondering whether to look at the MH first aid course to get a better understanding and training, or just accepting tbat those situations are always going to be a bit triggering with my own experience.
Just curious if anyone else has had to deal with tbat kind of situation.
Slight ramble, left me very distracted and jittery. Need a bike ride tonight I think.
When I worked up in Portree(Skye) the butcher I was replacing went loopy loos and attacked a customer with a steak knife. He then left the shop and attacked a passerby with said knife.
Got sectioned.
After working with the owner for several weeks, I came to understand what drove him to madness 😆
Request a chronological debrief with those involved oversen by a line manager who wasn't present.
It'll give you a greater understanding of what was going on, allow you to process the event better and then non critically reflect.
Perhaps more helpfully than the first reply here, my employer is/was a provider of MHFA courses and I've worked on the materials for them.
Yes certainly put yourself forward if you're interested in helping with such situations. Though your employer may have X number of gaps which are already filled. They tend to be fairly popular.
The course will give you an overview of MH conditions and suggest useful techniques for intervention in everyday or acute situations.
If you don't feel you'd cope well with someone in crisis, perhaps its not for you though.
I agree about chatting it through with someone.
We now do mental health first aid training at work alongside our first aid training - this year all our delivery team will do both. I have not had to use the training yet, but it has helped a few colleagues in situations out of work and one in work.
Never heard of MHFA! Will have to investigate...
Is mhfa a requirement for work place first aid? I have my course coming up, interesting to read about new sections
My Mrs ran the MHFA training for her trust. Delivering the course was rewarding but quite draining as it invariably unearthed things that some of the would-be first aiders had buried or been trying to deal with. So it really isn't unusual for the situation you saw today to raise questions and emotions. In the end she would only run the course with another trainer so they could share the load and have time to work through issues with people outside of the room.
Is mhfa a requirement for work place first aid?
At our place they are separate qualifications
My last refresher for FAW, he suggested it will become a legal requirement in the next couple of years. Not sure if I’d want to volunteer for that one.
I'm on our safety committee and raised a point that got our entire company on a minimum of a 1 day FAaW course. Certain individuals (more supervisory roles on site) will be going on the 3 day course.
We also have a fair percentage of MHFA trained staff.
I can't really help with the debrief for OP, take time to decompress and go ride a bike somewhere nice.
OP, take time to decompress and go ride a bike somewhere nice.
Just had a lovely bimble round the local tracks enjoying an amazing kestrel and a beautiful golden sunset.
We've also just been out - lovely evening.
The MHFA person(s) don't have to be the same people as the normal first aiders. It is a different set of skills - I think at our work there is only one person that overlaps both groups (and he loves training courses 🙂).
a point to consider - was it the Mental Health nature of the incident that caused you the concern in the OP? Or was it just the possibility that you might have to step in and take control of the situation. I’ve known a couple of (traditional rather than mental health) first aiders who were absolutely shite in even a minor incident, and since dealing with them I’ve been very keen that we actually ask ourselves if these are the right people to deal with a crisis rather than the people someone in the office would like to get out the way for a few days! Since highlighting that in a safety forum I believe our HQ are now considering whether their fire wardens are the right people too (the qualifying criteria was “in the office most often and has somewhere to hang a hi vis”).
<p style="text-align: left;">Interesting one ...like 'physical' first aid, mental health first aid is to provide initial assistance until professional help us available. If something goes wrong with the treatment, there's the potential to cause further harm to the individual undergoing treatment and may consequently, cause distress to the first aiders. My concern would be saying or doing the wrong thing to an individual having a mental health 'episode'. As volunteers, we're possibly not trained to deal with the potentially upsetting and distressing consequences. At my place of work, there's separate first aid training for both, and the trained the MHFA's are listed on the company internal website. However , when I was struggling and looked at the list of names, there was maybe only two people out of the fifty or so I'd feel comfortable consulting and knowing although they're trained, their experience in dealing with someone in mental distress would be limited. As far as I understand, the MHFA role where I work would direct the person to services available through the company, such as counselling, seeing Occ Health, your GP etc. The construction projects run by contractor companies have fantastic schemes which are more proactive looking out for their mates. It's impressive how the construction guys support each other. The level of MHFA training probably differs between companies to a degree. Think it's worthwhile getting a level of understanding and training which you could also use outside of work - but it's whether you'd have the capacity to help and know what you need to do to help yourself following an 'incident'. Good luck if you go for it!</p>
MHFA is very controversial…
The main issue with that course is quality control and ongoing supervision (or the lack of) practitioners. Also the selection of people who are suitable, approachable and balanced.
In a past life I was TRiM practitioner and then later TRiM manager with a clear framework of supervision and support for all trained personnel.
In contrast I was booked onto a MHFA course last year with my current employer, it was a joke. The instructor was dogshit and waffled for most of it, a very poor course.
The key is finding a quality course deliverer but with a clear plan to manage MHFAers in light of an incident.
Where I recently worked, which was a Cazoo repair and refurbishment site, they had several members of staff who were MH first aid.
There were a couple of occasions where I needed their help, which was very gratefully appreciated.
I’m a trained Mental Health First Aider. Do the training. It’s brilliant.
Having been the responder into the original sort of situation a few times over the years, in a very similar working environment to the OP's, I can strongly suggest that you do indeed ask for the de-brief session, preferably soon. Even a short exposure to the sense of powerlessness that these incidents can provoke in us can be distressing or triggering, more so if you have any vulnerabilities or relevant history of your own. It doesn't have to be a great big formal session with everybody involved, it could just be you and the lead MHFA person having a brew and a chat. They might want/need it as much as you...
As for the training, if you want to and also genuinely feel able to contribute, I'd say do it. Your site is large enough to ensure that it will happen again before too long, especially with current pressures and expectations.
MHFA is very controversial…
That opinion piece makes two key points that I can see...
Mental health services should be properly funded instead
Well yeah, but MHFA is paid for by employers so it's not an either/or situation.
The MHFA programme creates a new form of benevolent oppression, peppering everyday conversations with psychiatric discourse and producing a new breed of lay-diagnosticians ever watchful for signs of your mental illness, whether you like it or not. For how can informed consent remain a possibility if the psychiatric gaze is now ever present in the classroom, the university, the office, the supermarket? How can this be anything but a new form of social control and surveillance to police minds in the interests of neoliberal governance?
This seems like a wilful and slightly paranoid misreading of the purpose and reality of MHFA in the workplace.
The reality in my team is that I know who the MHFA person is, and I can tap them up for a chat if I want. But fortunately my line manager and I are quite open about MH anyway so I can just say if it's all getting a bit much sometimes.
Does MHFA actually achieve much for people with MH challenges? I dunno tbh but it sets a positive tone for employers to acknowledge MH challenges and take a supportive stance.
it could just be you and the lead MHFA person having a brew and a chat. They might want/need it as much as you…
I'm not attacking anyone in particular, but isn't this the kind of approach that's being criticised as being risky?
The MHFA programme creates a new form of benevolent oppression, peppering everyday conversations with psychiatric discourse and producing a new breed of lay-diagnosticians
On one hand, there's mental health jargon being thrown around and on the other hand a suggestion that a cosy "brew and a chat" between two MHFAs is the answer. Therapy, analysis and mental healthcare generally are much more than that. Of course people should chat to each other but if the suggestion is that OP has really experienced distress or trauma, then they should meet with a professional and not an amateur, however well-meaning.
And that goes even more so if you're suggesting the other person also is bearing some weight. You wouldn't suggest that two first aiders give each other stitches simultaneously after a minor car crash...
As a MHFA I am not here to (particularly) have a chat to or open up to. I am now more aware of mental health issues, know how to respond in an emergency to 'hold the fort' until someone much more competent than I can take over. As an organisation it has helped us be aware - but not to be a place of counsel or health care.
It, like all first aid, is about preventing further harm and seeking assistance.
This seems like a wilful and slightly paranoid misreading of the purpose and reality of MHFA in the workplace.
It is certainly a polemic and designed to be provocative, and there are plenty of more scholarly and sober pieces in academia and the mental health professions' journals.
But the question you raise - does MHFA actually do anything for people that experience mental health crises - is the important one. And the answer seems to be "no". In fact, there is a risk that it will adversely affect that person AND the MHF aiders!
Successful mental health treatment is very boundaried and with strict approaches to confidentiality. Look at what happened in the OP. Is it a good idea to have a bunch of colleagues descending on someone as they have a mental health episode? What would those colleagues do when they start to tell them about their assault or bulimia or bereavements? And because listening to those things can be very confronting, who's gonna take care of the MHFaiders - again, look at what happened in the OP. It's bad enough to see your colleague slice their finger off. There is a reason why it takes years to train mental health professionals, and why therapists usually have both supervision and their own therapy - both from professionals.
While I sort of agree politecameraction, is it not the same for physical first aid? I don't think many of us would question physical First Aid training, practice and ethics?
is it not the same for physical first aid?
Not really. There is hard evidence that physical first aid actually works. That's not true for MHFA.
it is not possible to state whether MHFA training is effective in a workplace setting. There is a lack of published occupationally-based studies, with limited evidence that the content of MHFA training has been considered for workplace settings. There is consistent evidence that MHFA training raises employees' awareness of mental ill health conditions. There is no evidence that the introduction of MHFA training in workplaces has resulted in sustained actions in those trained, or that it has improved the wider management of mental ill-health.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr1135.htm
No study has been able to demonstrate evidence that MHFA serves its intended purpose of helping individuals with mental illness in crisis
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/mental-health-first-aid-opinion/