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I don't know if I really need advice or just a moan, but I don't really know what to do, here's the story. This will get a bit self-indugent almost Radio 2 sunday afternoon weepfest, so be warned.
After a miserable few months, at the end of a pretty miserable year, which only really coincided with Covid I asked my Boss for a 1-2-1. Work was making me depressed and angry which bled into my home life, which was affecting my family which wasn't nice or fair on anyone. I've worked here the thick end of a decade, but this is the first time anyone had had such a thing, we're very informal. I needed to know what He wanted from me, and to know what prospects I had beyond what I did now, and perhaps mercenarily I wanted more money. I earn a decent salary, but more is more.
When I joined, they wanted someone to "sell stuff, and recruit new customers", no plan, no process, in hindsight they were losing money and sinking fast and it was far from easy, but I did just that. Frankly and honestly by my reckoning and theirs for a few years, me "selling stuff" was the only thing keeping the lights on and it was LOT of work, not all my work, but still I drove it and I hit higher and higher numbers. We started making money a few years ago and 12 months ago, after getting out from under with creditors were actually running a cash surplus.
As the years passed my role grew massively, I shared an office with my Boss and whilst nothing, because nothing is ever formalised in work, I was the defacto No2. I made decisions that affected the direction of the business and held authority which I liked, it was interesting and challenging, plus stressful, very stressful, but in recent months that started to ebb away, I was being left out of a lot of meetings and I felt side-lined, which dented my pride and caused even more stress. I thought it was just because Social distancing meant I had my own office now, because as ever no one ever said anything.
So, the 1-2-1.
It didn't go the way I wanted. I wasn't imagining it, the Business was changing direction and the roles and responsibilities I once had, I had no more. My role would be reduced and simplified back to "sell stuff and recruit new clients".
Moreover, one of the junior guys in work had made a deal with the boss that could see him taking over / buying the business in the years to come, an option that was never offered to me.
I felt snubbed and unappreciated, all the work and study I'd done to gain new skills, including self-funded home study didn't seem to count for anything. I was back where I started nearly 9 years ago there was nowhere for me to progress to - I'm 40ish and can look forward to another 25 years or so of doing the same, old, same old and worse, maybe one day I'd have to work for someone much younger who joined after I did and frankly doesn't have my skills or experience. Sounds bitter, but I believe it's true.
I was far from happy, but what do you do? Throw your toys out of the pram and quit? I've got a family and a mortgage that could give you a nosebleed. So I swallow my pride, and tried to stay positive, my 'new' old role was a lot simpler and I got down to the business of it put together a couple of presentations on Teams, built procedures to do what needs to be done etc and frankly enjoyed the headspace. I'm still studying in my free time and I may decide to take another job in a non-sales, more interesting part of my industry in a few months, I like it here, but the idea of it being a 'dead-end job' repulses me.
That was only 2 weeks ago, but now suddenly the Boss wants my input into things that really no longer concern me, I'm being dragged into things that have nothing to do with "sell stuff and recruit new clients" and I don't know how to react, how do you say "I no longer care" without being a dick? How do you say "not my job mate" when it's an attitude that's the polar opposite of who you are? It seems almost cruel
My take - he simply has not realised a) how much your input was needed and b) that he is pointing you one way then the other
Its time for a one to one again and you need clarity.
I'd politely say not my job...
I'd then offer to help but make it known your not impressed.
Can you walk n take a client base with you?
You'll be looking at other opportunities. Your boss has made it simple. No development means you are seeking development opportunities.
wants my input into things that really no longer concern me, I’m being dragged into things that have nothing to do with “sell stuff and recruit new clients”
Perhaps they think that you seem unhappy being left out and sidelined, so are trying to include you again. Ask.
It sounds like he's heard you, and he's trying his best to fix it.
If I were you, I'd be updating my cv / LinkedIn/ having a catch up with some contacts in your network.
A new challenge and hopefully appreciated in a new workplace.
A twin track approach: 1. Update CV, contact recruitment agencies and keep your eye out for a new opportunity. 2. Have another 1-2-1 with your boss saying you feel a bit confused as what he is asking of you now is not what you understood from the first 1-2-1.
From reading between the lines it does seem a bit of a chaotic company, and you mention that its not always been financially sustainable. Is this the right environment for you with a big mortgage and the skills and experience you have?
Ask him if your role is being simplified to sell stuff and get new clients and that is all, then why are you being asked for input in other stuff.
Needs done politely and tactfully but flag that it seems completely different to having the role simplified to just sell and get.
Unless of course he has realised how effective you are and he wants you doing more, if so, back to the table for another chat.
I suspect it will help massively if walking away wasn't an issue...everyone is replaceable but replacement isn't easy.
All of that from someone who has no real experience of what you are going through, so take it with a large pinch of salt.
I'd have another chat with the boss for clarification. Just say you are a bit confused as in the last meeting you thought he said this wasn't how he saw your role. Also have a think what you want, do you want to be doing these extra jobs? Sound like he might be happy for you to take on extra tasks if you want but you may not get much for it
Also, I'd say 10 years is potentially a turning point in your career. By then it's either heading where you want and need to carry on with that path or it's time to think about a change.
Your case reads subjectively so it's hard to give advice without fully understanding the situation and both sides of it. That said, being open and honest about your feelings with your boss (and being honest with yourself) would be a good foundation to work from.
Remain positive and enthusiastic and give it your best shot until you hand in your notice to do something else was my policy. I've never had a mortgage which may have something to do with with not being to worried about my work, which didn't stop me doing it to the best of my ability within the constraint of how much time I was prepared to invest in it.
Beyond 40 most people either stick with it or go self-employed because righly or wrongly employers or the clones they employ in HR write off people older.
Thanks everyone for your replies and I’m certain the solid self-restraint to not scream “stop whining you prick” I know I’m in an enviable position compared to a lot of people at the moment.
Anyway, moving on was always in the back of my mind and despite all of the above I do actually like my Boss, we’re very different characters but he’s a decent sort, so I’ll have make that my focus now before it gets too bitter and bridges are burnt.
I better pull my finger out and compete my studies!
Moreover, one of the junior guys in work had made a deal with the boss that could see him taking over / buying the business in the years to come, an option that was never offered to me.
Was it offered or did he ask ? Did you ask ?? (just worth thinking about)
kelvin
Perhaps they think that you seem unhappy being left out and sidelined, so are trying to include you again. Ask.
aidy
It sounds like he’s heard you, and he’s trying his best to fix it.
Could be the meeting wasn't what either of you expected and he/she may have had a think...
Perhaps they got carried away with some restructuring and your chat sobered them up and they realise the value you added? (perhaps they think they got a bit led on by others including perhaps the bloke who wants to buy the company?)
I don't think there is any way round this apart from another friendly meeting... since your place is so informal and pubs are reopen you could even take that route (or not but out of work might be better if they have been influenced by the newer guy)... I'd not be aiming for resolution straight off but perhaps just tell them what you feel, ask what they think initially and tell them they can take some time to think it over.
I’m 40ish and can look forward to another 25 years or so of doing the same, old, same old and worse, maybe one day I’d have to work for someone much younger who joined after I did and frankly doesn’t have my skills or experience. Sounds bitter, but I believe it’s true.
Seems reasonable though working for someone younger wouldn't/doesn't bother me (at 53) and might not bother you by then..???
It's still however valid regardless of that that you don't want to stagnate for the next 25yrs...
Bit of tough advice (sorry) but probably better you discovered this at 40 than 50 ... but equally for the conversation no reason not to say it's not what you'd planned and you might have to think about if the current situation is acceptable... (don't make it a threat IMHO just say this has made you think)
Back a bit full circle
It didn’t go the way I wanted. I wasn’t imagining it, the Business was changing direction and the roles and responsibilities I once had, I had no more. My role would be reduced and simplified back to “sell stuff and recruit new clients”.
Moreover, one of the junior guys in work had made a deal with the boss that could see him taking over / buying the business in the years to come, an option that was never offered to me.
You don't really say what you proposed at the meeting... or did you?
It seems you might need to do some more selling, but this time yourself... put forwards suggestions of what you can do, want to do and what you expect out of it... I suspect the "young upstart" did something like that?
There is nothing wrong with having a job that is just a job and that you can do comfortably leaving you with time and energy for leisure. Striving for careers IMO often leads to dissatisfaction
As I get older the more I agree with TJ’s point.
Personally, I’d get your boss to define your role formally in writing. And if you both want, a development plan.
Then, much as I hate it myself, regular 1-2-1s. We have a half year ‘mini’ one, and a year end one. At the start of the year we agree goals (which it’s ok to have none beyond ‘doing the job’) and then review against them at half year and year end. We also have informal 1-2-1s monthly or fortnightly depending on how you and your boss get one. They’re a pain in the butt but it does avoid things going unnoticed for a long time.
Striving for careers IMO often leads to dissatisfaction
If you’re a person that wants to climb the greasy pole you need the energy and ability to navigate the responsibilities and politics that come with it. It don’t have the ability to navigate the office politics and I have forever been the William Ryker to JL Picard, a Nick Huer to Alan Sugar - or what I refer to as a capable Lieutenant. I get there but hard word and ability which often sees my managers escalated as a result, and sometimes I get carried along.
Stevextc thread fills me with dread- I couldn’t carry on my work life juggling and questioning the office politics, I prefer to turn up, do work, get paid. This often means I have a - sometime naive - trust in my management but it’s a price I have pay in the corporate world. When things are obviously wrong I speak up to a trusted mentor/ manager although currently don’t have one.
On the plus side it allows me to keep my cards to my chest and not get involved in gossip / let others raise their head above the parapet but - and I’ve issues at work now - I’m almost at the point where I can do something less paid but well paid trading on my career experience to slacken off a little, and work for somewhere more pleasant.
Those who are politically motivated and want nothing but to shoot for promotion / a job title will quite often shit all over those that helped there narcisstic / sociopathic dreams, never forget that and don’t be surprised when it happens.
TDLR, ignorance is bliss. Just crack on, earn money or move.
Yeah I agree, there's something to be said for reaching a point where you can comfortably pay the bills and have built up the experience that your job isn't too stressful - I never saw the point of trying to advance further (I've been in same role for about 10 years now, to 'progress' I'd have to switch from a part design part hands-on technical role to a purely managerial role, f*** that).
As for the OP - you def need to sit down with the boss again and get clarification but in your situation I'd probably be looking for a new job elsewhere
I need to stop typing on my iPad without my contacts in. Apologies for the nonsensical writing style 🙂
It don’t have the ability to navigate the office politics and I have forever been the William Ryker to JL Picard, a Nick Huer to Alan Sugar – or what I refer to as a capable Lieutenant
Kryton yesterday...😉
There is nothing wrong with having a job that is just a job and that you can do comfortably leaving you with time and energy for leisure. Striving for careers IMO often leads to dissatisfaction
Getting laid off in 2009 showed me this (my 5th layoff...); from a high-level job with folk spread across the globe that I seriously enjoyed and took an awful lot of my time.
Ever since then I've worked with the approach that no one ever laid on their deathbed and wished they'd spent more time at work.
I'll be riding by 4 today 🙂
Unless your job brings great joy to you and others it’s just a job. Sales would be the ultimate dead end for me but happily were all different. I’d also get rid of the nose bleed mortgage and move, we have a very limited time on the planet. You could drop dead in the office tomorrow and you’d be forgotten in a week. Hurrah it’s Friday.
Kryton yesterday
Pretty close to it.
Unless your job brings great joy to you and others it’s just a job. Sales would be the ultimate dead end for me but happily were all different. I’d also get rid of the nose bleed mortgage and move, we have a very limited time on the planet. You could drop dead in the office tomorrow and you’d be forgotten in a week. Hurrah it’s Friday.
I discovered and have received a lot of advice from the forum to help with a mental battle between " I want to be seen as the best" (I'm competitive) to "I don't want the politics and shite that PJ is experiencing".
In my current world this meant abandoning any thought of becoming a US Corp Sales Director, and being comfortable with "Sales person" and having peers promoted above me. It took time and maturity for my ego to allow that, but once I did I found I could use my competitive streak to be at the top of the leaderboard and earn enough cash to help future retirement savings and for it to be a stepping stone to a less frenetic life. It was only this year I've verbalised that to my current employer and a couple of potential recruiters.
@Edukator:
Beyond 40 most people either stick with it or go self-employed because righly or wrongly employers or the clones they employ in HR write off people older.
I reckon you are wrong! We actually have almost the opposite problem, trying to find people who really know their shit, with 15+ years experience making mistakes and learning from them, rather than some youngster full of over-confidence and life of mistakes still to make!
If the OP has really been doing the stuff he says, he'll find it easy enough to find another company who value that experience.
@P-Jay:
I asked my Boss for a 1-2-1. Work was making me depressed and angry which bled into my home life, which was affecting my family which wasn’t nice or fair on anyone. I’ve worked here the thick end of a decade, but this is the first time anyone had had such a thing, we’re very informal.
the easy answer is to say just go find another job; but to give your employer the benefit of the doubt for a second - you went and complained about workload etc - and he's responded with a go back to the stuff I actually employ you for. I've done similar to my staff in the past. Often they have a jumble of mixed messages - "I'm working beyond my role", "I'm too busy", "I want more responsibility", "I'm stressed". At the same time, I'm thinking 'well I employed you to do XYZ which you've been ignoring because you are chasing the exciting stuff - so how about you do what I wanted in the first place and it will sort your workload etc'. What they actually meant was "I'm too good for the job you wanted me to do, and you should pay me more to do the stuff I like and get someone else to do the job you hired me for". That might be true but the higher paid, more responsible job comes with the stress you just told me you don't like!
the easy answer is to say just go find another job; but to give your employer the benefit of the doubt for a second – you went and complained about workload etc – and he’s responded with a go back to the stuff I actually employ you for.
I’ve had to be coy, there’s only so much I’m willing to share on an open forum.
I took a long time to really focus on what was making me unhappy, my Wife thought it was the same Covid stuff everyone else was facing but it wasn’t. I spent a few hours really drilling down on what had changed, as far as I was concerned a year ago I was there until I retired. Workload was never a concern, I’m pretty efficient and rarely have to work much past 5, my only ‘vice’ in that respect is I read through my emails over breakfast.
The things that bother me are the loss of authority and more importantly the lack of progression, I don’t like the idea of going to work, going through the motions and leaving again, I have nothing against people who do, but it’s not me. To be told there is zero scope for me to do anything else, ever as others are given opportunities is pretty cutting, okay that might be what the business needs, but it doesn’t mean I have to put aside my aspirations, because as every employee ever, has learnt at some point in their career, when push comes to shove that sacrifice will never be repaid.
Also:
My career aspersions aren’t based around climbing the poll or even earning a massive salary, I’ve pretty modest tastes. I just want to keep it interesting, learn new skills and use them.
But by the time you are in a 2nd in command position you're into dead man's shoes progression territory unless you move. And if the person above you owns the company then further development is going to be limited. Also being really good at "sales" is not the same as being really good at managing the business so is that where you want to be and does the other person have a more applicable skill set? The fact they've been dynamic enough to maneuver the position would suggest they have some gumption. Why do you assume you should have been provided with the opportunity?
It sounds to me like you've come to the logical end of the road with the company and need to look elsewhere, but at the same time work out what it is you really want to do.
Difficult, this is one of those "two sides..." tales.
I think you have two options. Well three, with option three being "suck it up and stop being a whiny pissant," which isn't particularly ideal. Life's too short to be miserable at work.
Option 1 is to have a candid conversation with your boss explaining that you aren't happy. "We don't do 1-to-1s" isn't an acceptable excuse in the modern world, there comes a point where you can no longer run a growing business as though it's still a corner shop.
Option 2 would be to vote with your feet, an option you could mention whilst pursuing Option 1.
To paraphrase the immortal words of Randall Graves, you need to shit or get off the pot.
I need to stop typing on my iPad without my contacts in.
My first thought on reading this was "aren't they synced to the cloud?"
My career aspersions aren’t based around climbing the poll or even earning a massive salary, I’ve pretty modest tastes. I just want to keep it interesting, learn new skills and use them.
One of the things i learned from my various trips down self help lane was to ensure you are working for something. Previously I was saving commissions to have the balance of the mortgage ready to pay when the fix runs out. I’ve achieved that last year, it was my purpose for working and made the role much more bearable during that time. PJ it sounds like you have a purpose; if you can’t achieve it where you are, do some research and or use some contacts to find a company or boss that can. I got this from the David Sawyer book Reset which was recommended to me on here. Work for something that matters to you, don’t work for works sake.
The things that bother me are the loss of authority and more importantly the lack of progression,
I had to face up to that. It took a while to adjust but I was much happier once I did. I went from being a ward leader to senior staff nurse ( on another ward) to part time. Even tho it was my choice I did feel my nose out of joint at those things you mentioned but I got over it and came out a much happier person