[Closed] Work - a necessary evil.

magic bullets

Of course, I already know this, it’s a rheatorical question.

Do something else. Be self employed.

Shag your secretary?

Depends how much you are prepared to change/give up/risk?

Job?
Lifestyle?
Car?
Sunglasses?
Relocation?

Yes.
Massively cut your expenditure and work a part time, minimum wage job.
My pal got laid off from the oil industry. He was earning lots of cash etc etc
Bought a flat in Fife outright for £40k and has been delivering groceries for Asda 3 days a week on minimum wage for the last couple of years. He's well happy.

I work 2 days a week, albeit in a relatively high paying contract, work from home role.
The other days I go to the gym, ride my bike, cook nice meals, make beer, read books, play guitar, hang out with my cats and hang out with my girlfriend. Keeps me happy.

Are you sounding off about the job or the company? If it's the company, you either live with it or leave.
If it's the job, which of the factors you listed can you influence - how and are you up for doing that?
Every job has it's frustrations; in my experience they ebb and flow which makes them manageable/tolerable.
If they are constant then, I would suggest, it's time for a job re-think.
No magic bullet to make work frustrations disappear; I think it's about how we control and manage them.

Sunglasses

Steady on now... 😀

Just match all the numbers in the lottery tonight mad you don't have to go back

OP I think you work in sales right? Guessing field by the comments about travel etc.

I've got a bunch of thoughts from my own experience and mentoring which I think could help your mindset - just about to do a 5 hour drive up the country with the family so I'll put my thoughts down this evening 👍

Read this book.

Win the lottery..

Massively cut your expenditure and work a part time, minimum wage job.

I would agree with that apart from the last one. All the minimum wage jobs I have had have been pretty miserable and some still quite stressful. If you are working still try to make it the best you can money wise within your tillerence of job types.

I'm feeling exactly the same as OP. Thankfully so is wife and we're about to plan the big escape.

We need a serious expenditure review. Wife and I both earn good money (in her case very good money). We have a relatively small mortgage by most peoples standards and certainly don't live an extravagant lifestyle, however we still seem to be cash poor. Not looking for sympathy but the effort / reward ration is seriously skewed. We have three kids which seem to cost a fortune with clubs, music lessons, dance clothes etc and we like holidays but we need a serious lifestyle adjustment.

Agree with TheBrick. Minimum wage jobs are usually rubbish. The amount of money you get is also generally tied to the number of hours you work. Aim to do something where the money you get is not connected to the hours you work - eg. make something unique and awesome and people will pay a lot for it even if it didn't take you long to make.

When I hit crisis point at work I swapped with my other half, went part time while she went full time. We had more money, I wasn't on suicide watch, we could fit family stuff around work a lot easier and with less aggro, been able to do some volunteering.

Now, I'll be honest, I've realised it's the actual job and environment that are the problem. I'd happily work more hours again if I was doing something I felt was worthwhile and personally rewarding, and if it meant MrsMC could take a step back off her treadmill as well, even better. But chances to retrain and redirect your life at 50 with two kids in secondary school are not that easy to come by

All good if you're the vocational type, if not its back onto the treadmill.

Minimum wage is great for getting by with no other expenditure, what happens when you do need to make some cash? What about your pension? What about the skills you have been practicing every working day? They won't remain relevant forever.

OP I think you work in sales right? Guessing field by the comments about travel etc.

I’ve got a bunch of thoughts from my own experience and mentoring which I think could help your mindset – just about to do a 5 hour drive up the country with the family so I’ll put my thoughts down this evening 👍

Andyrm please don't impact your hols but spot and and I'd appreciate that .  Mentors are lacking / people are self prioritising in our place and my peer colleagues can't be trusted not to stab me in the back, with a request for advice seen as weakness and used to my disadvantage . Last year I had it licked - in control, stoic mindset and defined but hard working lines around work / personal time.  This year, I've a bigger target and a strategic role around 10 of our largest accounts and a new manager (a prior peer, I didnt want the management role) who seems to want to micro manage my days and hours like a jnr sales person - that's causing a lot of frustration .

I've often thought of seeking an external mentor tbh .

In a more serious answer to winning the lottery....

I'm just over 12 months back into full time work after 6 years of being flexible down in Tassie, the stress and pressure come from different things - some of them are part of the job some of them are part of the culture and colleagues. Some of those you can change.
However dropping the workload/job stress won't get rid of the colleagues/corporate/company stuff just make you think differently about it, had a load of mates who were doing lower paid more passion based jobs in things they really liked but the company could still drag them down, those self employed had all the stress and pressure of keeping and building a business to deal with - the grass may look greener but sometimes it turns out to be astroturf or just concrete painted green.

Work travel is always easier for me when I'm in control of it as I can plan to make it work better for me, currently dealing with a trip which is getting really stressful due to the other people on it.

Only other thing I can suggest is get some nicer fitting shirts 😉 makes a difference mentally to be comfortable in them.

Other than distracting from it with the rest of my life, is there really any other magic bullets to make it more bearable?

Magic bullets are a complete waste of time, what you actually need are magic beans. I have a bunch of them I'll exchange for a cow if that works for you. Just plant them at the end of your garden and it'll all be fine. HTH.

ps: don't tell the wife.

A few folk I've spoke to have said doing home delivery driving for the supermarkets is a great job (for min wage). Not like parcel deliveries with the insane targets. Just get in the van, get the tunes on. And at the end of the shift you forget about it entirely

An interesting thread. We’ve had the annual summit at home in Feb and decided that I need to move to a ‘portfolio career’. Frankly I can’t stand what I do just now and the pressure and expectation is a bit mad. I do 60hr weeks every week and have done for the last 10 years. I travel all the time as well and I often don’t see my daughter from mon-thu which frankly is not good. So anyway, we are incredibly fortunate that financially we can survive with no cash coming in for a number of years but taking a huge step back means I can pick and choose what I do and only work enough to pay expenses and lifestyle costs. The biggest challenge, and this has really vexed me, has been WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK. I like to think I don;t give a hoot but clearly I do. Anyway, i’ve Spent a year coming to terms with it being my decision and not allocating a F irk to it so am calm. I enjoy WHAT I do generally I just never actually ge to do any work and spend my whole time putting out fires, managing politics and fighting the ‘machine’.

We have three kids which seem to cost a fortune with clubs, music lessons, dance clothes etc and we like holidays but we need a serious lifestyle adjustment.

There’s your answer - sell the kids!

Shag your secretary?

Are you a director in an NHS Trust?

I have days at my work that I genuinely would do for free, they're awesome. But they're no more than a couple of percent, whereas the days where I want to hide under my desk are a bit more common. Still, realising that even that few percent is still better than when I worked for the bank makes me wonder why I ever tolerated that for a week.

Kryton, I've followed a few of your posts on your work over the years, and can empathise.

I highly recommend an Executive Coach (apologies for the bullshit bingo job title).

When I was in a similar situation as you before, I got one, she was amazing, made me significantly better and happier in my job, and in the choices I was making.

Happy to connect you if you wish, send me a PM.

However...
In relation to some other comments - that was a few years ago, and I now work for myself. Even though I earn less, my missus tells me I've never been happier. 🙂

I have to say I feel quite lucky these days that I really enjoy my job. I have never worked for anyone until last Feb when I ditched contracting to take a full time position. Only thing I hate is the 1 to 1 1/4 hr drive. I get to work around 8 and leave somewhere 6 to 8pm most nights. Grab about 20 minutes for lunch most days.

Applying for a new position this weekend, it's hopefully perfect for me as it is what I have been holding our for and just created in the company. Should make me feel a bit less spread out as I am currently already doing bits of the job along with my previous job and a temporary management job I volunteered for.

Collect a £1 off everyone that feels like you.
You'll never need to work again.

Kryton, I’ve followed a few of your posts on your work over the years, and can empathise.  <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I highly recommend an Executive Coach (apologies for the bullshit bingo job title).</span>

Thanks, I'll drop you a note.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful to have the Job and the rewards that come with it, but as I'm sure most will understand high level corporate sales is stressful.  I get plenty of perks but the issue is that I'm enjoying those less because I can't get work out of my mind - this may be "me" rather than the actual job and I may just need some advice on that basis.  Im sure others feel the same, work and life is full of ups and downs.

I have a feeling some of this coincides with the cbt I had last year for flying which crossed over into life advice - I'm not having that councilling now it's down to me to manage my mind and ego by myself and maybe this is the issue.

Anyway, now attempting to have a cold beer in the garden after sacrificing my old 26er for doner parts to Juniors Whyte 403, which is now a few pounds lighter with AC wheels and a Fox Float 🙂

I recently packed my job in. Me and my wife (ex now) separated about 18 months ago and I realised it was a great opportunity to hit the reset button on every single area of my life and only take forward the things that I cared about. So I continued in my well paid but ultimately dead-eyed management role until I’d worked out want I wanted. Quit just before Christmas. I have a bit of money to one side and my new business may or may not be wildly successful. I think I’ve realised that actually that stuff doesn’t really matter. Doing the things you love and that make you feel alive is where it’s at. I’ll be taking my kids away on a decent summer holiday this year but apart from that it’s bike packing, camping & hiking and indulging my love of Mesolithic and Neolithic history for me in my spare time - which is at least half the week. Every week. Complete change of pace and change of mental wellbeing. I’ll never go back. Life is too short and too amazing to waste.

I've just verbally accepted what is essentially my dream job (bar one other but it's not an option at the moment) only problem is that it's a net 26 weeks per annum, pay pro-rata so alongside my pension I need another income to make life tolerable. Dilemma is that I have an interview for a job I wouldn't mind and can do well within my ability on Tuesday that will certainly pay more as it's 52 weeks per annum but comes with a load of responsibility and no doubt a corporate ethic etc. etc. IF I get an offer I'm going to be really torn between the two, more so since the guys I'll be working for in Job 1 are really nice and we see eye to eye and so far as I can tell really want me to work with them. I know it's a nice problem to have, both mean relocating but to nice places. As I sit here I'm minded to go for Job 1 and just find something easy that fills the financial gap....this all comes after a stressful 6 months giving up life in France and scratching around for £££ any way we can so I guess whatever happens is positive 🙂

Read this book.

Thanks for that recommendation.  I just finished the first chapter - to the end of the point of setting a vision.  I’ve hesitated there a bit as I felt the need to properly have a think and a discussion with Mrs K about what our vision might be.

First day back at work today after 10 days off.  Sorted through a few emails last night in a spare 30 mins to help today being less of a panic, and just reading that book has helped me say no to quite a few people’s expectations that I’d be working long hours in a stressful nature over the next three days to suit their agenda’s, not mine.  It’s also helped ensure I responded calmly and professionally, rather than an immature whinge - I noted “no whinging” comes further in the above book... 🙂

reading that book has helped me say no to quite a few people’s expectations that I’d be working long hours in a stressful nature over the next three days to suit their agenda’s, not mine

Bingo!

If there was one, simple piece of advice I'd offer it would be this. I've no objection to working hard but there's a limit beyond which it's counter-productive. Being honest when dealing with folk, and their expectations, provides better results and less stress.

I've twice taken significant pay cuts in order to get my work:life balance in order (and I mean pre-retirement). Of course outgoings have to be cut but there's no point in hating ones life for the next 20-30 years.

Kryters, it's a tough one.

Would you really be happy in a poorly paid job, or are you the kind of person who would take the stress with you?

Have you ever had a job that made you feel genuinely happy? If so, would you be willing to do that and sacrifice some of your current lifestyle?

I went from a relatively well paid job with a well funded lifestyle that was killing me to a minimum wage job in care work expecting it to be a lot less stressful.

In short, it wasn't.

Worrying about whether you can afford fuel to go to work was a lot more stressful than dealing with the crap in my previous job, but I survived long enough to work out what I really wanted to do.

But it took time.

Genuinely not a dig, but you like your toys. So do I.
Would you be happy with fewer, cheaper toys?
Are you willing to find out?
Would you be happy with a ten year old bike and a shed of a car or would that cause you more stress than your current working conditions.

As I say, genuinely not a dig, we're all different.

Can get some more counselling?
You did so well with the flying thing and as you say, it seemed to change you in unexpected ways.

Just to reiterate, not having a dig. And honestly, I don't do ironic smilies, they're all sincere. I like people, but the grumpy/friendly Northerness doesn't really come over well on a forum 🙂.

I work because I have to in order to pay the bills and support my family. Don’t particularly like my job and feel quite despondent on a Sunday knowing that I have to go back. Thing is I’m 42, no formal qualifications with a self esteem deficit. I’d love to do something else that I genuinely enjoy, but can’t see a way out. That in itself is quite stressful 😕

WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK.

A key point. You need to measure your success by the amount of happiness you have not by the amount of cash. Once you accept this then you know you are happier than others therefore if they do not recognise this then you can feel sorry for them rather than wondering what they think about your rebalanced life.

A bit of good advice from folk on here. I would add that you need to learn how to deal with stress and also to recognise that others agendas should not stress you. You manage their expectations give them realistic deadlines and don't let them put their stress onto you.

Also ways of dealing with it yourself internally ie how to manage the stress you have. For me a large part of this is accepting I do my best in the things I can influence and to accept the things I have no influence over even if they are very negative

This may sound very unsympathetic but stress in a sales role? compared to say paramedics or policemen? This leads me to think its more about ways of coping with and dealing with the stress you accept rather than the actual amount of stress

Stress in Sales (and other, often related) roles isn't just about how much you will/won't earn for meeting targets. In a very real sense, the health of the company and the livelihoods and happiness of of its workers can depend on how well targets are met, leads are followed up, future sales are influenced. I've been involved in purchasing where my recommendations have influenced the success/failure of other companies, sometimes very directly.

Fair enough. A different source of stress and one I do not know

Don’t knock it TJ, I’m not downplaying the others but it is a stressful job.

Rusty, I quite like my job actually and the answer to your other question, is that I’d take the stress with me - I’m the type to always find something to stress about, and I don’t help myself with that.

I already know a lot of whats in the book as there is a lot of common sense in it really,  and that I learned with the CBT but it acts as a valuable reminder, particularly of the fact that only you have your best interests at heart, do not rely on other people to do anything but use your for thier own goals - in a work context at least.  Yes, I’m seeking quarterly “top up” CBT sessions.

So, things have changed and I could quite many examples of cost saving and recycling stuff  in lieu of purchasing - in fact I did but deleted it because but there’s no need to remonstrate to the world is there -  just need to sort my head out re work and balance.

Actually a lot of thinking about what I do want as my vision in the last 24hrs has revealed a lot of what I don’t want, which I found intriguing.

I wasn't intending to belittle your experience just to try to give some context.

Rusty, I quite like my job actually and the answer to your other question, is that I’d take the stress with me – I’m the type to always find something to stress about, and I don’t help myself with that.

This does sound to me a bit like the stress you experience ( which is real no matter the root cause) is as much a product of the way you think as much as the job itself. One of the key things for me ( and I have stress to the point of almost breakdown) is to accept the things you cannot control. Easier said than done but to me some things "just are". If you cannot change these factors and just accept them then they are no longer a source of stress. Its an outlook on life that is perhaps hard for me to describe but it works for me.

Nice one.

I couldn't work in a sales job.

I've worked in a corporate world of petty middle management, ever increasing unachievable targets, backstabbing and ego.
It genuinely nearly killed me.

I was very, very lucky to be able to walk away and after many years and dark times, find a job that helps me feel satisfied.
Lucky that I didn't have kids to support, lucky that I lived somewhere with cheap housing and lucky that I found a decent support network.
The majority of people don't have those luxuries.

But if you genuinely think you'll be happier doing something else, go for it.
You owe it to yourself and those around you.

I used to work endless unpaid overtime hours in teaching in addition to being an examiner and an exam reviser plus writing the odd bit and managing a team. I used my naturally stressed disposition as an energy source for keeping going then I'd ride like fury to get it out of my system. I was ok with all of that because I felt autonomous. Then came senior management changes, academisation and micro-management of staff and students. I could not respect the new style, felt my time was being wasted and suddenly hated the whole set-up. Fortunately I had relatively low outgoings so I checked my pension status for early retirement, wrapped up and hucked off. I did go back to work for a 6 month contract in a great college but there I was left to get on with it and it was a joy.
I think the point is levels of stress vary not so much with your position or salary but rather with poor management, changing targets, 'accountability' etc and it's difficult to assess all of that before starting a job. It's not necessarily evil but there is a good chance it will be, whatever you end up doing. Incidentally, if you read Michael Marmot's 'Civil Service 2' study you find higher levels of management enjoy less micro-management, more autonomy, more active pastimes, more confidantes, less stress, longer life-expectancy and, obviously, greater rewards. The lower you go, very likely, the harder it gets so exercise caution.
The downside for me is that now I have to force myself to get out on two wheels.

Move jobs. Preferably into something that's not sales, as sales is awful IMO. Or at least move to one with more salary and less commission. In our company we have sales, then tech sales who are on a good salary but also get commission, and don't have sales targets.

In my experience (limited) work stress is due to how the company treats you. You can be doing the same thing but be given respect and autonomy, and you can feel 1000x better about the job, yourself and your life.

But if you genuinely think you’ll be happier doing something else, go for it.

I think I have the skill set to get this done for a couple of years, but its up to me to remember to make it manageable and not have an impact on my family / cycling / health.  It has its financial advantages and as long as its sustainable, everyone here at home benefits.

The moment it's not though, I can pack it in.  I gave myself a year, that was 4 years ago 🙂

I continue to post not for my own benefit but for others that may be reading this, perhaps our experiences will be beneficial to them.   I put some of the above book - and for some people obvious methods - into practice today;

a) I travelled to Derby for a meeting.  Instead of a cab, I walked along the riverside from the station to the city centre, refusing to answer my phone or check for emails - just enjoying that 15 minutes of the river and walk and not using it to cram in something else.

b) On the way back, I lost signal on my iPad on the train several times, then just put it away thinking that the remainder will have to wait - there is not point stressing about what can't be achieved.

c) I have 5 emails waiting for responses.  6.30pm arrived and I'm cooking my dinner, they can wait until tomorrow, no one will die.

d) I fancied a snack at 11am - I chose Melon instead of a cake.

Some people would have defaulted to those things naturally, but guess what, I'm sitting here feeling pretty good in myself. Small changes eh?

Very positive stuff and IMO exactly the change of attitude needed in situations like yours. Nice

K57, that's quite inspirational to me. Good on ya. Particularly liked the "chose melon instead of cake" - reverts the cake to treat status.

I'm off to wonder round the garden before the rain comes, instead of checking my emails...

Why choose the melon... the rest i can get my head round...

The cake... Mmmmmmmmm cake !

I’ve just had another interesting experience and I think universal law is happening to me.

Just meeting with a client and at the end “life changes” came up in discussion.  He talked me through he’d already addressed this several years ago and his outcome was “my life is significantly happier, my home life massively improved, I work in just as focused manner but less hours and with less stress yet my employer never even noticed a difference”

Bit of a revelation that.  Anyway I’m loving the fact that I typed this in the 90 minute lunch break I scheduled myself between two meetings.  As I’m in a customer corporate cafe, no one will notice and I cannot be disturbed by demanding colleagues, especially as I left my phone on do not disturb...

Makes a change to sit and eat a Prawn and Avocado sandwich at a table rather than juggle a snack in the car.

Good stuff Kryters.

The advice I give out....

1. Have a plan B. This could be a hobby you could monetise. Savings. Business idea (with money to back it). Having an escape route lifts a weight off your shoulders and allows you approach work with a "it doesn't really matter" attitude.

and

2. This links to having a plan B. Have defined skill set... lots of jobs are wishy washy i.e. management, sales, consulting. Lots of people in these roles do not have a defined skill they can approach new employers with. Think of a defined skill as a trade. One which you can pick up a job with easily such as coding, teaching, accountancy. You never see a plumber / plaster out of work. Knowing your skills have real world value and your not relying on blagging or reputation can really take the strain off. As in... "bye Mr boss man I'm taking my skills else where".

Sounds like you're making some really good progress Kryton!

The big thing to remember is the phone/email etc is YOUR tool, to assist YOU to do YOUR job, not a hotline for all and sundry to make their "emergencies" yours. Turn off the phone outside of work hours, don't touch emails outside work hours, and make sure you schedule time in the day to ensure you are working effectively. Look up the Pomodoro Technique which is really good, and if you'd like to PM me your email address, I'll share some resources with you that I got from a training day last month with one of the UK's top workplace performance consultancies.

Sounds like you’re making some really good progress Kryton!

One of the points in that book is....  start now. 🙂   I just drove for an hour from client to home with the radio off - yet another revelation, you'd be surprised at how much you notice!

1. Have a plan B. This could be a hobby you could monetise. Savings. Business idea (with money to back it). Having an escape route lifts a weight off your shoulders and allows you approach work with a “it doesn’t really matter” attitude.

Having to make a plan B sounds like a hell of a stress load to me! I have my trade, and I'm carving out a niche in it which so far is working out. I want to devote the minimum mental effort to it outside the parts I enjoy, so having to plan out business ideas and all the risks that entails, that would be awful.