[Closed] Wood burners...yes, I know...

i spend probably 2 working weeks a year collecting, cutting, chopping, and stacking my wood (a year in advance)
when i get home from work i have to go out in the rain to fill a basket with logs, empty the ash and clean the grate, then wait an hr for the house to warm up. there is always ash and dust around, and god help you if you spend too long cooking your dinner and it goes out. generally its a pain in the arse, dirty and takes up lots of storage space.
however i would not heat my house any other way 🙂

google hetas installers in your area. it wont be cheap though

Don't be tempted to go too big - next door hardly ever use theirs and if they do they usually have the windows open to vent the excess heat!,

i spend probably 2 working weeks a year collecting, cutting, chopping, and stacking my wood (a year in advance)
when i get home from work i have to go out in the rain to fill a basket with logs, empty the ash and clean the grate, then wait an hr for the house to warm up. there is always ash and dust around, and god help you if you spend too long cooking your dinner and it goes out. generally its a pain in the arse, dirty and takes up lots of storage space.
however i would not heat my house any other way

I pay £100 a a guy delivers my split and seasoned logs which I then spend 30mins stacking into my woodshed. I bring logs in twice a week and do this when it is not raining. I empty the stove of ash about once a month, it takes 5 mins and easy, clean operation. Ash and dust is contained within the stove, at worst a small sprinkling around the hearth but what the hell, it is a fire FFS. It is hassle free clean compared to an open fire and as I don't season my own wood, required very little storage. I wouldn't heat my house any other way (apart from central heating which does a wonderful job in the morning and all other times that the fire is not lit)

The first thing you need to do is find a local chimney sweep and get him to come and assess your flue. The quality of the flue is vital for the creation of a rising column of hot gases, which creates a low pressure and sucks the air through your stove. He might recommend that you get your flue lined with an expensive stainless steel liner; you will need to question him about this because the liner, at over £60 a metre, can be half your stove cost, which is a nice earner for him. If you're lucky enough to live in a modern house, which has a chimney, the flue might be made from a stack of concentric clay rings and in good condition. Older houses will have a square section flue built out of brick and it's likely that the mortar might be in poor condition allowing gases to escape and necessitating a liner. A liner is good in any case because it's smooth inside and will be packed in insulating material, meaning it will warm up fast (cold brick takes longer) and encourage the gases to rise in a nice thin column. A warmer flue means less condensation and less nasty acidic liquid attacking the brickwork or the liner. Get him to quote you for a chimney cowl (must be stainless) and check the flaunching around your pot.

Once you've sorted the flue, start thinking about the stove. Here is my view on the pros and cons:

Wood burner: You are limited to wood only but wood burners usually have spacious grates and big windows giving a lovely effect. However it takes a bit of practice and plenty of small pieces of fuel to create the all-important bed of embers on which to burn your logs. Logs alone in an empty grate don't burn very well.

Multi-fuel: more choice of fuels and easier to create the bed of embers with some smokeless nuggets, which will glow all evening and on which you can burn logs if you wish. Will easily stay in all night. Usually a smaller grate. We have two Dovre 250s, which we think are about perfect.

The best advice I was ever given was to err on the side of a smaller stove, which you will be burning harder and therefore hotter and cleaner - nothing looks worse than an oversize wood burner, shut down and smoking up the glass.

Once you've decided on the stove the next thing is to think about your log store. You need somewhere well ventilated where you can stack the logs and air will pass through them to dry them. Most wood merchants or tree surgeons will deliver big builders' bags of logs, which will have been heaped in a barn and so will be semi dry and not really ready for burning. A full summer is usually enough to get those logs dry enough - you can tell they're ready by the radial shrinkage splits in the ends and the ringing sound when you bang two together.

Get the stove installed by the chimney sweep; this will make you a good customer who he'll be happy to come back and sweep for at shortish notice or attend to any problems. He will fit a sweeping port in the flue for future convenience.

Next go and buy your coal scuttle, log basket, tools, some spare door seal rope and glue, some glass cleaner gel, a tipper box for the ashes and your multi-fuel nuggets and kindling and a huge box of fire lighters.

Then fit a TRV to the radiator in the lounge to prevent you from overheating when 'er indoors has got everything on full whack and is still sitting moaning about feeling cold. Finally, start to enjoy your stove.

I pretty much just use smokeless coal now. Wood is nice but it is expensive, burns quickly and takes loads of space up.

STW regulars are sick of me harping on about it but DO NOT burn proper coal in your stove; it can get white hot, hot enough to melt the cast iron internals of your stove. This was my neighbour's baffle plate after a chimney fire (she hadn't had it swept for two years) caused the stove to overheat:

[img] [/img]

Stick to smokeless or wood.

Building control
Building control
Building control

A wood burner is for life unlike a dog. Buy a good brand no Chinese cheapos of the Internet. I have a scan excellent but they are very slow to send parts. You probably need to replace ceramic plates in the top of the burne sometime in the future especially if only a small burner. You are more likely to jam wood in and damage them. So buy British if possible. Go and look at them in a shop where they have a good choice. Although they are called multi fuel they tend to favour one over the other. The inside should be as square as possible for wood. Went to look at them with my first choice being a Aga and a Scan my last. Once I had seen them I completely reversed my choice. If you are going to use the top for kettles and the odd stew think about surface area.

.globalti - Member
STW regulars are sick of me harping on about it but DO NOT burn proper coal in your stove; it can get white hot, hot enough to melt the cast iron internals of your stove. This was my neighbour's baffle plate after a chimney fire (she hadn't had it swept for two years) caused the stove to overheat:

So was it the coal or the chimney fire gti

Chimney fires are a sub optimal development with wood or coal really

Fwiw my parents have done similar to their baffle in their 6kw cassette stove with wood.....

ps mine (Scan) will stay in for at least 10 hours. Once it stayed in for 16 hours. Small burner only 4.5 KWh

I have an aga sd-253 it came with the house

Its ok but lacks controlability i get a great draw off the chimney ifthe wind blows accertain way and thefire roars the hell. - could do with a top air baffle

That will be when you burn coal though ?

.trail_rat - Member
I have an aga sd-253 it came with the house

Its ok but lacks controlability i get a great draw off the chimney ifthe wind blows accertain way and thefire roars the hell. - could do with a top air baffle

trail_rat - Member
That will be when you burn coal though.

No wood. Egg shaped coal 36 hours obviously closed down.

Baffles the wrong word no controlable air vent is what i mean ( like every other decent stove ive used )im going to put one in the flue pipe eventually 🙂 just one i havent got round to it.

Aye i cant close mine down so i get 3 hrs out of it when its on.....

Back to the OP.

He's out of your area but have a look here for info on wood and drying...

http://www.ed-knights-logs.co.uk/index.php/about-us

What global says, especially about TRVs. Plus I find leaving doors open seems to keep the house dryer, there's convection airflow up and down the stairway. The dehumidifier agrees with this.

Mine has a top and bottom air vent on the stove.

.Aye i cant close mine down so i get 3 hrs out of it when its on.....

.slowoldgit - Member
Plus I find leaving doors open seems to keep the house dryer, there's convection airflow up and down the stairway. The dehumidifier agrees with this.

It has secondry burn and airwash - its not all the old , previous owners bodged it in to an open fire place.

We found half a coal scuttle instead of a register plate and a kerb stone for a lintel.

Worth making sure what ever you fit you leave room above for an eco fan or similar - valliant do a cheaper copy

This really moves the air about the house

The plates angle down towards the back and are normally ceramic

That lack of a second air control is big problem for you a real bugger!

she hadn't had it swept for two years

I was demolishing a place a few years back. The guy had a small stove which he used to burn coal and wood but, as above, had failed to keep the chimney swept. The five inch flue had been reduced to a mere two inches, rising as high as about a foot from the stove collar. How he got away without having a chimney fire, I don't know.

Scary stuff but I can't help but think of this...

[img] [/img]

Sorry. This, obviously...

[img] [/img]

.We found half a coal scuttle instead of a register plate

. kerb stone for a lintel.

Pikeys?

SD - you know greenheart is toxic, don't breathe any dust or get splinters.

Useful link, not just for woodburners - talk to Building Control
http://www.labc.uk.com/technical-guides

Ashfanman
I installed a wood burner for friends in epsom. It's awesome.
Heating and hot water means they won't be spending any money on gas ever!!!!
New build insulation everywhere.
I'm in Epsom.

Happy to talk on the phone.
Got chimney sweep/installer in book ham.

Not sure you want a couple of mountain bikers working on your house.

Get in touch.

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Thanks everyone - I thought this might get a lot of replies! 😀

Right, so the consensus suggests I should be looking for a small (about 4.5-5kW?) multifuel burner. Unfortunately, I'm guessing I will need a liner, as the house was built in 1930.

Get the stove installed by the chimney sweep; this will make you a good customer who he'll be happy to come back and sweep for at shortish notice or attend to any problems.

A few of the places that I've seen online for the stoves also offer an installation service. Would you say I should definitely get the sweep to install it instead, or should I at least see what the difference in price would be? I just thought I might be able to get a better deal if I'm buying the stove from and getting it installed by the same people?

Buy a good brand no Chinese cheapos of the Internet.

These are some of the brands I've seen: Morso, Esse, Dru, Franco Belge, AGA, Hunter, Tiger, Stovax, Dovre, Villager, Charnwood, ACR.

Any of those that people would particularly recommend, or any that you wouldn't?

Most of the stoves I've seen online that I like the look of are about £500-700. I know this is hard to say with any degree of accuracy, but what sort of price do you think I should be budgeting for, all in?

Thanks again.

EDIT:

Got chimney sweep/installer in book ham.

Ham as in Richmond?

It's already been said but you don't need anything huge. I have to leave all the doors open in our drafty old farm house to keep our living room bearable with a 5kw stove.

But... I wouldn't rule out a Chinese cheapy. I've got a ludicrously expensive Jotul and two Chinese stoves. The Chinese ones are every bit as good but were 1/12 the cost of the Jotul.

Any tips for putting a small wood burner in a conservatory-ish extension? Want something that burns hot and clean so I can use old pallets etc.

get a liner. there are at least 2 types, you want the one for burning multi fuel as well as wood, its twin wall. work out how many metres you need allowing for bends and the stack, and floor space and order it online, should cost about £25 a metre. allow an extra metre.
also get the space between the liner and the chimney filled with vermiculite. this insulates the liner and stops the gasses condensing in the liner and keeps most of the heat in the stove and the room.
shopping list
stove, stove pipe with some allowance for cleaning, liner, connector, register plate, vermiculite, i used 4 bags in an 8 m chimney. top plate, sand and cement. and someone to fit it. email in profile if you need anymore, i've done a few.

Sorry,may have aready said but whereabouts are you based? I'm Epsom way used a heatas registered fitter called Costertons. We didn't need a liner but think he said it was about £500 for a liner and similar to fit the stove. Stove is on top of this.
We bought a firefox 5, one of the "cheap Chinese" ones. Had it just over a year and are very happy with it and it fitted our budget

There seems to be regular mention of people who have to turn the stove down because the heat is excessive. I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or missing something altogether, but my stove gives out the greatest heat when the flames are turned down?

We let it burn for 15-20 minutes or so with all the vents open, and then once all the wood is charred/blackened close them down (not right down) until the flames are just flickering, and watch the thermometer go up and up - far more heat coming off then when the flames are roaring, that's just going straight up the chimney.

No soot build up this way either, the sweep got about a cup full of soot after one winters use when he swept it last.

At bed time we open everything up again so it burns out quickly.

It takes an experienced eye to know when a stove is ready to be turned down; I would say that 20 minutes is too soon with ours. I usually wait until the bed of embers is well aglow so that any log thrown on will burst straight into flame and flare up readily. If you have one of those magnetic flue thermometers it will be well into the "optimum" temperature range by then. After a few minutes the logs should be well alight with the glow beginning to spread and no dirty yellow flames visible; any flames should be burning vigorously and heading towards white hot. At that point I will close the bottom vent and close the airwash to the point where only the smallest amount of fresh air is coming in.

Points taken. 20 minutes is a rough guess - it's certainly not until after all the wood is well charred, and a low flame from the bottom or ends of the wood can be maintained on closing the bottom vents and turning the top one down. This process (except opening the bottom vents) gets repeated once the heat from that lot starts to tail off.

A liner is classed as a temporary repair and usually fitted when the chimney is in poor condition. Hetas states the chimney must be in sound condition before lining as if/when the liner brakes down the gases will then be in the chimney and could possibly enter the property.

If you do not want to fit a liner then you need to have your chimney pressure tested. If it passes then no liner is needed so a register plate flue pipe and stove. Always make sure the register plater has access for sweeping.

As for stove sizing, do not fit too big a stove as stoves work better when not in slumber.

Also fuels such as homefire, taybrite and excel are not very good for liners as there will always be condensation in a liner and the products of combustion and water creates sulphuric acid which will brake the liner down. Anthracite is good but slow burning. If using wood always make sure it has a moisture content of less than 20%. The drier the wood the more heat you will get out of it with less air.

Our second winter with ours and now getting it right. Our first 2 loads of logs weren't seasoned properly, we didn't realise, although the hissing should have told us. Now got properly seasoned logs. Also finally worked out what is stated above, ie turn off bottom vent when properly lit and also I've been chopping small bits of wood. It is now fantastic and we love it.

It's a small Morso and is well made. The only thing to think of if it's small is that the logs need to be cut small as well, but that's just an excuse for an axe if not!

Enjoy.

....and don't forget, it won't be long before you can get one of these to cut the logs up:

[img] [/img]

...and to split them, it won't be long before you'll need a splitting maul:

[img] [/img]

You really need to have a good bed of glowing embers before you shut the vents. But once you have you just chuck a log in every now and again and it'll keep going all night.

Ours is a 4.5kw Stovax which with the living doors shut can generate unbearable amounts of heat. With the doors open it heats the dining room and kitchen nicely, we even open the door to the hall and you can feel the heat in there and at the top of the stairs.

Absolutely loving ours. We know a tree surgeon who regularly drops off a load of wood. He says he has way more wood than he can give to people with stoves so I guess we're guaranteed a permanent free supply. I've just spent a weekend chopping and sawing wood and loved that too. Something very satisfying about turning a big pile of branches and logs into a well stocked wood store.

I pay £100 a a guy delivers my split and seasoned logs which I then spend 30mins stacking

Either you work for amazon and can stack like ****, or your wood is expensive. The first thing to consider even before you look at chimneys etc, is - do you have a supply of wood?. If not, it ain't gonna be cheap. There's a lot of labour in splitting wood, which I, like samurai, enjoy a lot.

I have 3 wood sheds, all big enough to last a winter, so there is a constant supply of two year old wood. It takes a bit of work, but I don't mind this, I'd rather that than give more money to the utilities companies.

Greg - only empties ash once a month so ill go for expensive wood

slowoldgit - Member
SD - you know greenheart is toxic, don't breathe any dust or get splinters.[b]

The toxic bit is overdone unless you work in a sawmill where there is no lack of dust. When using a chainsaw what comes of is chippings not dust. Although there is no downside in wearing a mask so might as well. As for splinters that's a given thick gloves at all times. Not noticed any increase in my asthma which I am near certain is dust problem. IE gets worse when burner going.

You really need to have a good bed of glowing embers before you shut the vents. But once you have you just chuck a log in every now and again and it'll keep going all night.

I don't understand the obsession with keeping stoves in overnight, but it really is a bad idea IMHO.
Unless your wood is super dry - unlikely in the UK, then the lower temperatures mean that you get more condensation inside the flu, which can lead to the liner dying quicker and the risk of chimney fires increasing. Not worth the hassle to me.

YMMV

Rarely turn stove down rather get naked although this is not available when daughters staying. Rather put wood on with bark down or better still bark all round slows the burn down. That's why I prefer coppiced wood.
http://m.clasohlson.com/uk/Flexit-100X-Heat-Transfer-System/36-4560

Heat mover

Ref rarely turn heat down doing so now cooking!

.I don't understand the obsession with keeping stoves in overnight, but it really is a bad idea IMHO.
Unless your wood is super dry - unlikely in the UK, then the lower temperatures mean that you get more condensation inside the flu, which can lead to the liner dying quicker and the risk of chimney fires increasing. Not worth the hassle to me.

Why you shouldn't burn overnight

http://www.guildofmasterchimneysweeps.co.uk/safety_info.php

http://www.derbys-fire.gov.uk/keeping-safe/open-fire-stove-and-chimney-safety

http://www.solidfuel.co.uk/pdfs/guide_to_wood_and_multifuel.pdf (page 7)

http://www.norfolkfireservice.gov.uk/nfrs/your-safety/safety-in-your-home/19-useful-guides/12-chimney-fires

Geoff I only clicked on Norfolk fire and I think you will find they are referring to open fires not burners.

About halfway down the Norfolk link

Preventing chimney fires

The most common causes of chimney fires are:

Infrequent sweeping and cleaning
Burning unseasoned wet wood
Improper appliance sizing
Overnight burning or smouldering wood for long periods in [b]wood stoves[/b]

The guild of sweeps

Overnight burning / slumbering fire - please don't do this, it can be dangerous and costly and is highly polluting.

Why? they do not say. More importantly this is clear statement that you should not close your fire down ever. As you cannot close down an open fire they must be talking about burners? Saying you should never close down wood burners ever is ludicrous as there wouldn't be air controls/baffles on them in first place?

 

Saying should never close down wood burner ever is ludicrous as there wouldn't be air controls baffles?

Mine are a bit more sophisticated than open or closed. I'd tend to listen to what the Fire Service has to say though.

Closing down the fire does course a greater build up of tar/soot so increases the likely of fire easily dealt with by extra cleaning. My fire is closed down at moment they are saying I and every other person with a wood burner should not do this? is in my view bollocks!!

.Mine are a bit more sophisticated than open or closed.

We have a Charnwood which is dead simple to use, has a rotating grate for wood or multifuel use, a 4 stage choke on the front and can clean the chimney through the stove. Cost an arm and a leg though.

Nothing better than a roaring fire on a cold evening!

🙂

Sorry for the slight hijack but does anyone know of a good supplier/installer in the North Kent (Dartford/Bexley) area?

Had a couple of fitters in who gave very different advice - not sure who, if either, to believe.

In what way?

Well for a start there are both top and bottom vents which gives you 4 variations.
The bottom vent on my latest one has knob with a scale from 0-10 which you adjust depending on how much air you want to allow.

BUT all this is irrelevant, do what works for you. 🙂

.Well for a start there are both top and bottom vents which gives you 4 variations.
The bottom vent on my latest one has knob with a scale from 0-10 which you adjust depending on how much air you want to allow.

BUT all this is irrelevant, do what works for you.

just bought a house and inherited a Sunrain JA006 chinese thing, anyone got similar?

is this the correct position for the baffle?

[img] [/img]

Looks like to should be higher (i.e. near the top of the door) - that's were they are on my stoves.

Looks like to should be higher (i.e. near the top of the door) - that's were they are on my stoves.

+1

Looks a bit odd though. Is there another baffle over the flue exit? Top or rear exiting flue?

top exit, nothing over the flue exit, ill have a look again inside for any brackets, but the description states its to sit on top of the firebrick, i agree, looks like it needs to be higher

Wrong firebrick?