[Closed] Women only train carriages

Or how about one only for blacks, or disabled people? Where does it end? Who thinks this way?

Women - know your place

Or at least inadvertently that's what it would result in.

But what happens if a woman harasses another woman? Where do they get put?

Glasgowdan, who knows where it ends, but you'll probably want to start with gays and immigrants rather than blacks.

On a serious note. Who is going to police the segregation? Or will it just rely on signs along the lines of 'quiet' coaches.

A carriage of clunge, where do I sign up?

It feels like a step backwards. It feels like it's normalising the harassment that women experience, rather than actually trying to stamp it out.

Umm what about all the other genders, and transgender?

Surely completely impractical and unenforceable?

Baronsamedi hits the nail on the head. I can imagine pissed up lads being tempted to walk through, or stay in the ladies carriage, going "Wahey!" and much worse. Red rad to an arse. Especially the kind of arse who's obnoxious to women because he resents them because of bad or non-existent relationships, feeling insecure, inferior around women.

Edit: baron! Not saying that's you! 😀

How about addressing the actual problem rather than telling women they need to hide and be locked away on public transport.

And so you would have men crowded and squeezed in even more tightly in some carriages while in others they would be half empty (if the demographics happened to work that way)? Just because of what you are born some would have to travel in an inferior way? Great idea, not.

Can't we just tell women to stay at home rather than work? It'd stop arseholes being forced to harass them. 🙄

Stupid idea.

And so you would have men crowded and squeezed in even more tightly in some carriages while in others they would be half empty

I assume men-only carriages would look like this TBH:

[img] [/img]

How do the ladies on the Forum feel about this?

Cue numerous men, expressing their feels.

😉

Cue numerous men, expressing their feels

What next! As a labour leader he could go down in the history books for a variety of reasons, although I think he may now well have realised he has a hole in his foot and a smoking gun..

And so you would have men crowded and squeezed in even more tightly in some carriages while in others they would be half empty (if the demographics happened to work that way)? Just because of what you are born some would have to travel in an inferior way? Great idea, not.

Hold your horses everyone...seems that it's only a post-2200hrs idea.

Under Mr Corbyn’s plan, women would be able to report crimes in stations and a pilot scheme would be rolled out on trains and Tubes to introduce women-only carriages[b] after 10pm at night[/b].

So if you're a boy that likes rubbing against wimminz during rush-hour, you'll still have your opportunities.

How about addressing the actual problem rather than telling women they need to hide and be locked away on public transport.

Well, I dunno, I [i]read[/i] the article and saw this...

He would also pledge to launch a campaign on public transport, television and cinema aimed at combating street sexism, and raise awareness of the effects of harassment.

So it seems that it's a step in conjunction with trying to address the problem.

How these carriages would be policed, however, is another thing. Who knows if there might not even be humans to do this with the continuing efforts of TfL to remove them from underground transport.

Cue numerous men, expressing their feels.

Just sprinkling some facts around for now. Feelz might come later. 🙂

I have been amused, this is always good. 😆

mikesmith nails it with an excellent response. 🙂

I am sure he means well (honest) but it is victim blaming. Women should be able to ride in trains without fear of molestation. How about we just ban all men from trains after 10pm ? That would make it safe.

Ludicrous nonsense.

mikesmith nails it with an excellent response.

To make it clear in case the Cob's task squad is reading there was no nailing, it was just a misunderstanding and hardly my fault that the only available toilet was in the wimins carriage and my trousers fell off as I was leaving...

Wouldn't it be better to have an Annoying ****s Only carriage where we can put the harassing men, obnoxious drunks, rambling nutters, and people who listen to music on their phone speakers.

and Tubes to introduce women-only carriages after 10pm at night

So just how the hell does he think it's going to work on the new tube trains that are open all the way from the front to rear carriage?

Or, here is a better idea - lets make all women wear head to toe body cover, so all the poor defenceless men won't be tempted. I wonder if anybody else has stumbled across that idea ?

On a friday and saturadya night trains are still packed after 10 pm so might be difficult. Rest of the week it could work.

It is tricky as it aim is honerable, much like the idea behind head scarfs is to stop women being judged by their looks, but it is achived by hiding women away, either under fabric or in a seperate carriage. Ofcourse women should not have to deal with these issues, btu it is undeable they do happen, so is it better to deal with the reality but still aim for the ideal?

To make it clear in case the Cob's task squad is reading there was no nailing, it was just a misunderstanding and hardly my fault that the only available toilet was in the wimins carriage and my trousers fell off as I was leaving...

Another bloke who can't keep his trews zipped. 😉

A horrible thought flashed through my mind - imagine sitting in a women-only carriage and the wimminz from East Enders boarded the very same carriage. 😯 I'd wet myself through fear. 😐

Why do I have locks on my doors and my car, it is ridiculous just blaming victims why don't they just deal with the criminals instead of forcing me to take action to secure my life. What next, will I have to prove who I am when taking money from the bank instead of it being taken on trust.

To be honest, having got a bus home from Croydon last friday night, I think there ought to be male only carriages to save us from pissed up angry young women screaming and bellowing like little "Vicky Pollards" into their phones with the most amazingly strong language.

The idea that only men can upset fellow passengers is one that passed with "Oh Mr Darcy I am overcome" ladies in white lace dresses and parasols fainting in the sun from an overtightened whalebone corset.

Surely completely impractical and unenforceable?

The women only compartments on UK trains worked fine until they were phased out in 1977, as did the women only waiting rooms in train stations. I can't see why this would be less practical and enforceable.

Yup I'd be up for that, you could call it:

/Frankie Howard mode on/

Cackle Class.

/Frankie Howard mode off/

😆

I am not sure that a car counts as a victim MSP, unless it is alive. Does it answer back when you speak with it ?

Wouldn't it be better to have an Annoying **** Only carriage where we can put the harassing men, obnoxious drunks, rambling nutters, and people who listen to music on their phone speakers.

We've got that - it's called "the London Underground".

You'd think that in a crowded city people would be MORE considerate of not making the whole place unpleasant with anti-social behaviour, but in fact it seems to make everyone completely selfish ****tards. Not just the usual horrible yobs - for example you see people of all social classes and ethnicities with feet on the seats. What is it with people?

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/commentisfree/2015/aug/25/german-student-swapped-flat-for-train-ticket-rich-masochist-in-uk ]What a lovely idea ,some women may even swap their flat for a life of quality travel [/url] 😉

The women only compartments on UK trains worked fine until they were phased out in 1977, as did the women only waiting rooms in train stations. I can't see why this would be less practical and enforceable.

Pretty sure more people are using public transport now...If they split my commuter train between men and woman (it's only two carriages) I would not even get a place to stand.

Pretty sure more people are using public transport now...If they split my commuter train between men and woman (it's only two carriages) I would not even get a place to stand.

More people not reading the proposals. It's a post 10pm idea - so your commuter train most likely won't be affected.

GrahamS - can we put the big hitters in there too?

I suspect that the suggestion is not to introduce it on commuters trains with just 2 carriages and do it where it's, you know, sensible and practical.

Wow, segregation as a means of control, great plan. I am probably more scared of some of the women out and about after ten than I ever have been of men. Bit like crap cycle lanes and infrastructure rather than education as a means of reducing cyclist deaths... it doesn't really work.

BTW this proposal is aimed at women who at the present are not using trains or are reluctant to use trains, it's aim is to increase the use of trains and public transport.

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism ]Big in Japan?[/url]

While it does have an element of victim blaming, why not. It might be reassuring to some women to know that women only carriages are available should they chose to use them.

Trouble is, a friend of mine who works occasionally in Paris (where 24 reporting is available) was followed home late after a short ride on the metro, it's not really a "train" problem, it's a "Man" problem. Needs education, not separation, IMO

Might be good to hear what women think of this rather than a bunch of sad middle aged men decrying it. When the wife worked in London she painted a slightly different image where on packed trains men would go out of their way to rub up against her. All her friends had stories of being groped, grabbed, touched, constant comments etc. I suspect corbyn has a lot of female input into this idea, after all he does represent a London constituency.

Slightly different but on the same theme, as I spend weekend nights in Liverpool city centre, people watching is part of the job. Men who've had a few drinks seem utterly incapable of not commenting to literally ANY passing females, or grabbing them. Men probably think this is innocent and fine, I suspect most women just view this as the constant low level harassment then they have, unfortunately, had to learm to live with. Irritating at the least, more likely a constant pain in the ****ing arse to most women.

I've lost count of the amount of times a couple of girls will get in back of the cab and I've had to lock the doors as soon as they are in as they are being harassed by a group of men and/or have tried to get in the cab with them. I can assure you it is not appreciated by the women.

[quote=loddrik said]Might be good to hear what women think of this rather than a bunch of sad middle aged men decrying it.

hels, sazter and CG for example ?

A friend of mine has a funny story about being on a crowded bus in Italy and some bloke trying to have sex with her armpit.

Ban men ! Its the only viable solution. Or perhaps just castrate them at puberty.

Thinking on this really saddens me. Our society seems to move forward in so many ways, but women seem to go backwards. All this advancement in rights for disabled people, GLBTG etc and we are STILL in a place where restricting women's freedoms in public spaces is seen as a solution to what is criminal behaviour.

Up here in Scotland hugest mandate ever on whether we should be governed by middle aged white Scottish men or middle aged white British men, but get somebody to care that women STILL get paid considerably less than their male counterparts in almost every profession ? Shut up and go and sit in the womens carriage doll, its for your own protection.

loddrik - the days of women having decorum have long since gone. It's behaviour that needs to be addressed, not segregation.

As regards Transport Police, does anyone know how they're funded? Are they another victim of Tory cuts?

Edit: as a teenager living in London travelling late at night was often an ordeal. I just had to deal with sexist comments, probably didn't help when wearing hot pants and knee length boots! You had to keep your eyes and ears open at all times as well as looking over your shoulder. I didn't know any different.

Lots of folk don't understand the meaning of segregation.

Having a penis-free carriage as an option for women using the tube [b]late at night*[/b] =/= segregation.

*again for those who can't read the OP's link.

Some people are rubbish humans, there are male versions and female versions. I have been on the receiving end from both species and would not like to repeat any of those experiences, people need to look out for one another and the rubbish ones need education. I only just managed to slam the door in the face of a guy who was following me home one night in Edinburgh, ran up to my flat and realised how close I had come, he was still banging on the close door for some time. I have been held up by a grown man in a lift by my throat, I have been punched in the face by a "lady", this all makes me sound like some kind of violence seeking lunatic, I am not, I am just the person who speaks up for people who are being bullied, I am the person who doesn't hide who I am, and that's a big gay if it matters, and that is what gets me in trouble. So should I stop standing up for people, No. Should I grow my hair, wear dresses and hide me, No. I will continue to live my life my way, stand up for what I believe in and use whatever means of transport gets me where I need to be, because I am not being hidden away for anyone.

Sorry that turned a bit ranty there. 🙂

A couple of years ago, I was travelling home from a night out in London. A bloke came sauntering down through and plonked himself next to a single girl in a nearby seat and started to pester her.

She was obviously distressed, especially when the bloke started telling her that he was going to sexually assault her. I stood up and told him to leave her alone.

I'm not the bravest, nor am I the toughest but no-one else on the carriage lifted a finger. I've far too many female mates who've been on the receiving end of this type of behaviour to sit back and do nothing.

Things got heated, a guard was fetched and the bloke was met by Transport Police, but I can understand why some women would want a segregated carriage.

Some people are rubbish humans

yes.

Ok, just spoke to the wife. In spite of her tube experiences, she thinks it's a ridiculous idea. She agrees it's mens behaviour that has to change but she wouldn't want to travel, or our daughters, in a female only carriage.

Isn't this just because his team think he is short of a few women voters ?

assume men-only carriages would look like this TBH:

I was thinking more of a sponsorship deal by the purveyors of [i]gentlemens reading material[/i] that saw the posters replaced with the finest assorted [i]frankie[/i] - it could save an entire industry!

You can of course guarantee that if they did create male-only carriages, the millie-tants would be down the royal courts of justice faster than snapping knicker elastic to complain about it being a breach of human rights though...

You can of course guarantee that if they did create male-only carriages

There's a suggestion to do that? Where can I read about it? Or are you just making stuff up again Zulu?

There are lots of women-only train carriages in India, however there are massive issues there with sexual harassment, assault, and rapes are far too common. Doesn't stop men using the carriages though...

Cheers, Rich

Isn't this just because his team think he is short of a few women voters ?

I think the answer is probably no

[img] [/img]

There's a suggestion to do that? Where can I read about it? Or are you just making stuff up again Zulu?

Surely if you create [i]wimmin-only[/i] carriages, then you have to create [i]men-only[/i] ones as well, it's equality, innit?

Oooh, that is interesting ernie.
Id love to know why and how they come up with their ideas.

Jesus Christ. Providing women only carriages is not:

1. Victim blaming, any more than selling hi-vis clothing is.
2. Segregation, which is forced or coercive.
3. Restricting women's freedom, see 'Segregation'.

And the suggestion that we shouldn't at least think about addressing the symptoms as well as the cause (because that's so easy of course) is absurd.

Whether it's workable in this country is another matter.

Can I raise a practical question at this point.... I'm assuming that we're addressing this issue after we've already established a separate carriage for the gingers, right?

Surely if you create wimmin-only carriages, then you have to create men-only ones as well, it's equality, innit?

No, it's really not, any more than for the sake of equality Japanese fishermen need protection from being hunted by whales.

Yeah 1970's solutions to modern day problems, hurrah for Corbyn 🙄

Would they be painted pink and have some nice curtains?

we are STILL in a place where restricting women's freedoms in public spaces is seen as a solution to what is criminal behaviour.

It isn't restricting women's freedom, it is giving an extra option of a carriage free of men, its an extra choice. It is one of many possible "affirmative" actions that shouldn't be necessary but are a response to the way the world unfortunately is.

Can I raise a practical question at this point.... I'm assuming that we're addressing this issue after we've already established a separate carriage for the gingers, right?

Don't forget bloody Christians!

ninfan - Member

wimmin-only carriages

It's interesting that you are heavily hinting this is an 'ultra-feminist' suggestion Z-11, with your obvious references to a Viz character. However the women-only carriage proposal was first made by a Tory minister last year, Corbyn has just revived the proposal as part of his commitment to public transport, and he claims that in debates and discussions some women have suggested it. I would have thought that the women most likely to oppose the suggestion are those who consider themselves to be "feminists".

Also interesting is intense media interest that something which isn't even a policy or commitment but merely a suggestion/proposal by Corbyn generates. Corbyn appears to stimulate more debate from one proposal than the other 3 leadership candidates combined do about their firm policy commitments, sparse as they are - has Liz Kendall even got any?

So because we don't have the recourses to deal with the problem we come up with segregation.

Which will require resources to enforce.

[i]Sex offences on London’s Tube and train network rose more than 32 per cent to record levels last year, according to figures released earlier this month.[/i]

But in context:

BTP recorded 1,399 sexual offences in 2014-15 in England, Scotland and Wales - up 282 on the previous year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33979568

There are +24000 trains running every day.

So simple maths would suggest 1 offence recorded per 6000 train journeys, but add in 2500 stations and you get to 1 offence per 6900 train journeys/stations.

Tbf to Corbyn, he's only saying that it should be discussed. I suspect he'd probably come down on the side against it anyhow.

Yeah 1970's solutions to modern day problems, hurrah for Corbyn

Hurray for the 21st century labour party generally.....

[img] [/img]

This whole leadership battle is great. If it was made into a film we would all complain its a bit far fetched.

Cant wait for the fallout following the result.

What will the losers do ?

Here's the thing.

The sad truth is that some men are a bit rapey. Some women are a bit vulnerable. Put the two together and it's probably not going to end favourably for the lady. It would be a very, very poor state of affairs if politicians - nay, if everyone - didn't support the concept of investigating ideas as to how we can improve that. The linked article states (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) that "43 per cent of women aged between 18 and 34-years-old living in London had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces." That's a terrifying and depressing statistic.

Segregation is not the answer, you need to attack the problem at source. Education is the answer. Convictions are the answer. Making this sort of behaviour socially unacceptable is the answer. However, some of "the answers" are somewhat difficult to achieve, so I can see why something like this proposal might be being considered.

It's also worth bearing in mind that at this stage it's just an idea. There's a tremendous gulf between "election candidate has made a suggestion" and implemented policy, despite what a Daily Mail headline might have you believe. Essentially, this is how debate is sparked (just as on STW) and "is this a good idea?" - "no" - "all right then, next order of business, Homeopathy in the NHS..."

I'm not sure it's his idea entirely...

As for tackling the root cause of the problem -that's a far more difficult task don't you think?

Corbyn appears to stimulate more debate from one proposal than the other 3 leadership candidates combined do about their firm policy commitments, sparse as they are - has Liz Kendall even got any?

Far as I can tell, the other three's primary policies all seem to be "smear Corbyn." But let's not get sidetracked. (-:

However the women-only carriage proposal was first made by a Tory minister last year, Corbyn has just revived the proposal as part of his commitment to public transport,

Left winger Jeremy adopts a right-wing Tory's idea.

Shocking.

Does this mean that a Tory is committed to public transport, or is it different because it's, you know, The Corb?

As an aside,

If you want an insight into the sort of crap, excuse me, "wimmin" have to put up with then this is worth a read:

https://instagram.com/feminist_tinder

Just 'cos the other 3 haven't a proposal between them, doesn't discount this one being sh*t. TBH if this is the best Labour have got then they'd better get used to staying in opposition for a long, long time.

"Yeah 1970's solutions to modern day problems, hurrah for Corbyn"

It's a 2015 solution in India.

dragon - Member

Yeah 1970's solutions to modern day problems, hurrah for Corbyn 🙄

Do you extend that point of view to the Tories dragon.......you know, 1970's solutions to modern day problems, hurrah for the Tories?

[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/women-only-train-carriages-could-introduced-4349573 ]Women-only train carriages could be introduced in the UK[/url]

[i]An MP has discussed the possibility of introducing women-only train carriages to help combat sexual assaults on public transport.

Parliamentary Under Secretary for transport Claire Perry said women only carriages already existed in Japan “because there is a particular problem with groping and low-level violence”.

“It is a very interesting question and I will look at all ideas,’ she said.[/i]

As Woppit points out although his opponents like to portray him as a hard-left radical much of Corbyn's proposals are anything but that.

Just 'cos the other 3 haven't a proposal between them, doesn't discount this one being sh*t. TBH if this is the best Labour have got then they'd better get used to staying in opposition for a long, long time.

I know eh? Women and their pesky 'problems', ha ha! They should just take regular harassment on the chin like the rest of us do. Ha ha!

Although I agree with a lot of Corbyn's "lefty loony" ideas, this one is a total step backwards. You don't protect people by assuming most men are, to quote a previous poster, "a bit rapey". I hope he was just mulling it over and it has been reported as a policy idea by some Blairite.

I've already been teaching my 3 year old daughter about where she can kick and punch bad men *really* hard (partly to explain why she's not to hit/jump on/knee me there when having a bit of rough and tumble around the house), self defence lessons shall continue. If she ever feels the need to use a "women's only" carriage, I will feel I have failed as a parent.

On another point, men are more likely to be attacked than women (ok, not sexually but still this is surely an issue). Should we just put all men in solitary confinement at all times in case they attack each other?