[Closed] Winters coming;all inclusive rugby thread.

Lets be honest Pigface not one of the welsh squads are strong enough to compete against the English let alone the French. Toulon had Sheridan and Haymens on the bench yesterday!

I agree AA but to ship so many points in the last 5 minutes is disappointing.

Toulon is great/daft however you see it. The ammount of money they have is amazing. I thought we were the poor relations but after Embras latest embarrassment what hope does Scottish rugby have in Europe?

The Amlin cup scores are mad Worcester scoring 90 😯

Is that coc%weasel Armitage in trouble for the high tackle? I haven't seen it.

Evans slipped going in so it wasnt really Delons fault. He is known for his cheap shots, which is a shame as he is a quality player.
Just for wrecker I thought I'd post another Lions 15. This time without the piss taking!

1/2p
Cuthbert
Tuilagi
Roberts
North
Flood
Youngs
er...
Tipuric
Ferris
AW Jones
That Northampton Thug
Cole
That other Northampton thug
Healey

I think the English number are currently favoured by them playing in winning teams. North is in on reputation really.

Sale started brightly but gradually outclassed and battered by the Montpellier pack.

Not sure about Healey. I think there are better options in the Welsh, English and Scottish teams. Care is on fire. I don't think Youngs is going to get the England shirt and I'd take Phillips over Youngs anyway.

er...

O'Brian is broken, had hip surgery, could well be long term ****ed. Denton is also currently broken I think as is Gray. Suprised you think Scotland have better options than Healey, Jenkins maybe but not on current form. Who is a better option at loosehead for England, Corbisero isnt as good? I agree on Phllips over any other 9 option but he is apparently not playing well, although he is a big game player, have to see how he goes for Wales in the autumn. Same applies to Faletau really, he is never going to look much good playing for the Dregs

Well thanks Edinburgh; The thick end of £500 for that sh**e.Still, that was one of my rugby ambitions, I just wish I had been wearing red, and when those Irish buggers sing....and believe me they sing... 😀 Right; off to fart next to badly behaved pupils for the next three days.

Who is a better option at loosehead for England, Corbisero isnt as good?

I'd put Corbs, Gethin, Jacobson and Marler ahead of Healy. Probably Yapp too. He was torn a new one on the last meeting with Corbs. I don't think much of Healey at all.

Wrecker are you sure you aren't thinking about Tom Court from the 6N game last year?

Yep. Spot the obvious mistake. Although Cole took Healey apart on the other side.

I think it was more that the Eng pack took the Ire pack apart as opposed to Healy being a weak link specifically. Tom Court covers the TH side but is really a LH so when Mike Ross went off early we were screwed from that point on. I think Healy can hold his own against the Aussies in the tight and would be very useful in the loose.

The Aussie would piss themselves to see fat boy Jacobsen trotting out against them.

@duckman - can't be much fun being an Embra fan at the mo. No points and two hidings, awful. I hope you enjoyed the Irish hospitality however.

Is that coc%weasel Armitage in trouble for the high tackle? I haven't seen it.

He shouldn't be - he looked just as surprised as anyone when his shoulder got headbutted.

James Downey SHOULD be cited for leading into a tackle with the point of his elbow. Despite being the ball carrier it was still dangerous play and resulted in the Embra 10 leaving the field.

Munster really should have worked out early in the game that having locks on the wing is rarely going to win the game and also suggests that your wingers might be doing jobs that stop them from scoring tries.

I haven't seen any team that looks dominant enough to say that they deserve to win the Heineken Cup yet.

I seem to recall Healy having a torrid time and getting pinged for a few penalties?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/mar/17/england-ireland-six-nations-ratings

Seems to support that (the only lower score from both teams was for Court), but my memory isn't great.

Wales squad for the AIs announced;

Backs: L Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Liam Williams (Scarlets), A Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), G North (Scarlets), H Robinson (Cardiff Blues), A Beck (Ospreys), J Davies (Scarlets), J Roberts (Cardiff Blues), S Williams (Scarlets), D Biggar (Ospreys), J Hook (Perpignan), R Priestland (Scarlets), T Knoyle (Scarlets), M Phillips (Bayonne), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues).

Forwards: S Andrews (Cardiff Blues), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Bath), A Jarvis (Ospreys), G Jenkins (Toulon), A Jones (Ospreys), R Hibbard (Ospreys), K Owens (Scarlets), M Rees (Scarlets), B Davies (Cardiff Blues), L Charteris (Perpignan), I Evans (Ospreys), A-W Jones (Ospreys), T Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), R Jones (Ospreys), R McCusker (Scarlets), A Shingler (Scarlets), J Tipuric (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt).

No major surprises. Which is nice!

I dont know of any player who is subjected to so many cheap shots and still does the right thing.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/10/2815/scott-higginbotham-cited-twice-for-knee-and-head-butt-on-richie-mccaw#allcomments

Any loosehead will get pinged if Court is the tight head. Healey is certainly better than every other option for loosehead apart from maybe an on form Gethin. Adam Jones ****ed healey over good style in the world cup but thats no disgrace and he's improved since then. Cole or Jones on one side and Gethin or Healey on the other would destroy anything Aus have as long as the ref lets them.

Suprised Byrne didnt get in they obviously think the Kamkarzi kid from the Scarlets is the future.

A unhappy TJ writes:

What can I say? Its time for this Edinburgh and Scotland fan to fall into a pit of despair.

Season over for both pro teams - Edinburgh with barely a whimper let alone some fight. Glasgow at least went down fighting. Sale have broken Gray, Ford seems to have lost heart / interest. Kelly Brown is still scary/ ugly, The number of injured backs is frightening.

roll on NZ - thats what I say. NZ must be quaking in their boots.

I might let you away with that as its an aus tour. If it were SA or NZ, Healy wouldn't be allowed any where near it. You forget cole ruined him too.

roll on NZ - thats what I say. NZ must be quaking in their boots.

Optimism never dies! 🙂

Do send him my regards, would you?

Healey did a good job in nz this summer. Fine player and better than loosehead in Englandshire. I think your blinkers are showing.

Yep McCaw gets more than his fair share of cheap shots-i guess that its the price that he has to pay for being so good at avoiding penalties for his constant infringements in the ruck 🙂

Nope. He was poor and exposed during the 6N. I've already stated who I'd have him behind in the ascendency. I haven't changed my mind.

The truly shocking thing about that vid is richie being pinged for being on wrong side!

The problem in the 6N was Court at TH not an issue with Healy. Cole has become a very good TH but its not that long ago that Tom Court took him apart at Ravers. Like I've said previously its about the unit not specifically individual players. I'd go with Healy/Jenkins and Jones/cole on the other side.

The autumn intl and 6N will change many things I'm sure anyway

Jones needs to up his game at the moment but i expect he knows that. Such a finely honed athlete cannot peak all year round 😉

Haha I didn't have the sound on so hadn't picked up on it....I'm finding it hard to believe that a ref has penalised McCaw for being o the wrong side....he's spent most of his career there 🙂

Worth a read IMO

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/9624587/Rugby-unions-referees-left-exposed-by-findings-of-IRB-examination-of-the-modern-scrum.html

Rugby union's referees left exposed by findings of IRB examination of the modern scrum
This column has consistently, many would say pathologically, complained about rugby’s modern scrum and the way in which the hooker’s role has been unilaterally altered by the failure of elite referees to properly apply its laws.

This has never been, as some have claimed, because of personal affront that players of my ilk have been almost completely marginalised; it is far wider and at its very foundation is the issue safety. Hooker is the most dangerous position on a rugby field and I have visited too many catastrophically injured hookers since retirement.

Three years ago I posited the prospect of the Rugby Football Union and International Rugby Board being sued for damages for personal injury because of their failure to act over dangers in scrum which were well known and for which there were solutions. My basic premise was that as a result of the then new ‘crouch, touch, pause, engage’ sequence and the condoned ignoring of other laws, the scrum had become a contest of brute power where the primary aim of both packs was to win the ‘hit’.

The word hit is not in the law book but is now freely quoted and accepted by referees who allow front rows to engage with as much force as possible and immediately thereafter drive forward as quickly as possible. Not only do they condone this dangerous practice, they have actually invented a new penalty offence, one not in the law book, of ‘not taking the hit’, which actually means penalising one pack for not pushing with enough illegally-early force to counterbalance the other pack’s illegal shove.

Elite referees, including Paddy O’Brien, the then IRB refereeing supremo, didn’t accept the point saying they had too many more important things to worry about to apply the laws as written and that most people were not that concerned anyway. They might now have to reconsider that stance, because recently the IRB published a report on the most detailed examination ever of the scrum, undertaken over three years in South Africa and at Bath University. It isn’t revolutionary in the sense that it contains startling results, indeed it mostly confirmed many things already known by experienced practitioners. The point it that for the first time these things cannot be dismissed as anecdotal or personal, they come from tests carried out at six levels of rugby from international to school.

The conclusions to the report expressly support my above contention that “modern scrumming involves a high initial impact or ‘hit’ on engagement, followed by sustained pushing forces throughout the scrum” — contrary to the law stating pushing should only begin when the ball leaves the scum-half’s hands.

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Chief amongst a number of recommendations is the removal of the artificially created “hit” by, at least at amateur level, front rows engaging passively. This would most easily be achieved by the addition of the second and back rows quickly thereafter.

I also claimed that impact scrummaging was giving rise to the risk of chronic back injury and early retirement and permanent longer term spinal damage. The empirical conclusion of the report is that the scrum is now “ ... a situation which has the potential to produce the repetitive sub-critical injuries that in theory could lead to chronic pain and early degenerative changes to the cervical and lumbar spine”.

I also recently criticised the IRB’s failure to address the well-known fact that modern jerseys, designed to prevent gripping in tackles, are dangerous when props are supposed to bind on them in scrums. The report asks for clothing modifications.

The IRB, particularly its refereeing department, is now in an entirely new legal position. Previously courts had to decide between the opinions of opposing expert witness, of which I am one, based on their personal experience and knowledge. Now they have concrete research and recommendations from rugby’s global governing body to assist their decision. The IRB, RFU and other Unions can no longer defend cases by claiming a contrary view is just one expert’s opinion. If they do not take all reasonably practical steps to follow their own safety recommendations they will have no defence, legally or morally.

The hitherto silent majority and I, as a no-so-silent Jonah wailing in the wilderness, are tired of farcical, dangerous and illegal scrums. We are now supported by the IRB’s report recommending they "Bring back the 'scrum'", which is backed by a direction for correct Law interpretation and enforcement by the referees.

No more excuses; we’re not talking about trifles. Elite referees are not amateurs, giving up their spare time, they are decently paid employees who can and should be sacked if they do not get in line. Brett Gosper as the IRB’s CEO and Joel Jutge, as referee supremo now have the impartial evidence to implement the necessary changes.

Very interesting reading, a_a.

[i]Elite referees are not amateurs, giving up their spare time, they are decently paid employees who can and should be sacked if they do not get in line.[/i]

Again, why did the ref stare at McCaw being headbutted on Saturday and ignore it - obviously the wrong decision as Higginbotham was banned for 4 weeks. How different would that game have been if Oz was missing their no 6 for 10 minutes? So the only conclusion I can make is that the officials at that game were incompetent...

check out the gifs on the last page about the citings, both of which were upheld which means the refs ****ed up and they were both right next to the incidents and unless there was a particularly perky topless women in the crowd they bloody well should have been looking straight at the incidents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20069327

that wales buggered.

[i]THE Ospreys have contacted European Rugby Cup’s head of referees Donal Courtney over the “disappointing” issues that led to Ryan Bevington incurring the wrath of French official Romain Poite in the clash with Leicester...........

.....But in the Heineken Cup encounter at Welford Road last weekend he was penalised four times and yellow carded as Poite repeatedly found fault with his scrummaging.

The Ospreys and Wales were not convinced by all the decisions, with the region opting to haul the youngster off after Poite had told Alun Wyn Jones if Bevington offended again he could be red-carded.

“We saw a penalty swing of five-four at scrum-time, Leicester getting five and the Ospreys getting four, yet Ryan was singled out and yellow carded.
[/i]
http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Ospreys-seek-clarification-Ryan-Bevington-scrum/story-17177143-detail/story.html

Poite is famous for his 'knowledge' at the scrums but to my mind he goes into matches with his mind made up about who has the strongest scrum and consistently penalises the team who he thinks is weakest regardless.

Of course, seeking clarification about the scrum is pointless when the Ospreys should be seeking clarification about why they conceded so many points in the last 5 minutes. Why they seemed to switch off so completely.

14 weeks for Hazel,ouch!

I see Lee has been called up as cover for Jones, remember we read it here first! Pigface's tip wasn't he?

What led Hazel to do that? was it gouging?

duckman kind of 😀 the Scarlets I work with were talking about him in none too complimentary fashion. Consensus is that he lacks the discipline and will bloat in a couple of years. Time will tell.

Hazel said he had been gouged at least 3 times but there was no evidence. The knee did him no favours. My mate is a Glaws fan swears there must be something in it as he is usually pretty calm and this was out of character.

I watched the replay and it looked (I cant be sure) that the guy he pummeled may have had a go just as he tackled Hazel which may have been the final straw. The guy did lie face down like he knew it was coming 😯

In any hearing the panel has all the cameras to extract footage from,not just the couple that Sky show us. If he can't find any footage,then Hazel's defence is on shaky group. Having watched him for years I think he was a ticking bomb from kick off. He seemed to grow increasingly frustrated with Glaws inability to put the game away. Speaking of bans; is that animal Clark not about due to return,what was it; 6 months in April?

Yeah I guess he is and it shames Northampton that they are taking him back.

He is due back 1st Nov. I'm looking forward to the Ulster v Saints games already. I'm sure Ferris will be looking forward to meeting Hartley again, hopefully he won't try and take a bite from the big man again.
Tickets booked yesterday for the Ravers game, followed by the Proclaimers straight after in Belfast, an alternative Christmas do!

Haze has been around long enough, and if he thinks he was gouged, i'd beleive him, especially in the dark depths camera's can't see into.

Anyway, a few injuries picked up last week, but a tasty match this weekend against Tigers and looks like a big crowd and more pub time before the match which is always nice.

Will Greenwood, blonde mullet, cigar and jangly jewellery who have you got???? Now then now then 😉

Ulster v Dragons on red button now. He more forward Passes leading to a try ignored. They're currently discussing the merits of Samson Lee....

Adam Jones is definitely out for the Autumn.

The obstruction on Best for the Dragons try makes it evens 😉

Ruan might have scored a good try but he doesn't have the kicking boots on!

Five tries to Ulster in Wales again and 20 mins to go

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Scarlets again prove they have no pack worthy of the name!

Yet they have 6 forwards in the Wales squad for the AIs.

And Samson Lee is being hyped as an Adam Jones replacement.
OK, they won tonight. But is he really good enough for a cap already?
TBH, I've not seen a lot, but when I have he's been going backwards more than forwards. I suspect Adam will be sorely missed this autumn.

Apart from Rees or Owens none of them are worthy of a starting spot if everyone is fit. As for Samson well any tighthead who can hold his own against pro teams at 19 must be something special but Jones, Mitchel and Jarvis are ahead of him just a shame that two of them are broken.

Weren't most top flight props playing pro at 19?

Cant think of many others starting Rabble Bank or Aviva games and certainly not European Cup games.Nope or if they were they were getting a right pasting. Adam Jones took years to find that level. Only tight head prop i can think of playing to a higher level at that age was Dai Young.

[img] [/img]Imagine what he'd be like if he had Adams hair!!

Well marler was in the England squad at 20. Scott Wilson is playing for the falcons at 18 (although they are championship team albeit with plenty of money and international players)
Anyway, it's always nice to see the youngs guys get a crack of the whip. I look forward to seeing him in a Wales shirt.

Marler is a loosehead isnt he? Cole is a young tighthead and didnt really start for tiggers until he was 21.

REALLY start?
FFS. You could start an argument in an empty room.
Sod this.

Easy chaps 😀

Nice win for the Ospreys today 😀

Who the hell rattled your chain. Samson is incredibly young to be a starting tighthead in pro games at euro level. Its odd that you accuse me of being argumentative in the face of this simple fact. Maybe you just need a hug?

leinster v blues in wibble
http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/e_live.shtml

blues managing to up the level of incompetance in defence from previous highs so far.

point a min for Leinster so far. BOD broken though.

Great result for the Kingsholm massive 😆 my mate is like a dog with two dicks.

He's very good "for his age" and definitely one for the future.
Not sure how this will translate, if it will be enough, if he ends up scrumming down against some argies or all blacks this season. But whatever happens, hope he does well, and the other new caps in the squads.
Think Richardt Strauss could be another interesting one, and might make a late challenge for next summer, good player in a problem position.
My other outsider for a spot is Armitage at 7: playing well and would make a good balanced back row with Heaslip (best form for a few years now) and Ferris. 😉
Oh, and Kyle Eastmond to be next summer's John Bentley

Armitage and Armitage are not in the england sqauds. Delon is more Lions material imo. Plenty of better 7's in Scotland and Wales although Warburton is playing shit at the moment.

Here come Gloucester! Great night at kingsholm.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20121620 ]Perpignan release Girafferis for the AIs. [/url]

Sale meltdown continues - [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20131910 ]Redpath 'sacked'[/url] (though Swanny has been on Twitter saying he's not been sacked; apparently on gardening leave, presumably pending Mitchell being appointed). This is getting embarrassing, especially after we poached him from Gloucester last season, the move to Salford (which most of the support were against, given that you can't actually get there) etc etc.

Aaaaaah!

Andy

Sale meltdown continues - [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20131910 ]Redpath 'sacked'[/url] (though Swanny has been on Twitter saying he's not been sacked; apparently on gardening leave, presumably pending Mitchell being appointed). This is getting embarrassing, especially after we poached him from Gloucester last season, the move to Salford (which most of the support were against, given that you can't actually get there) etc etc.

Aaaaaah!

Andy

Interesting Andy, most Sale fans that I have spoken to (all of whom live a good 15-20 miles away mind) were pretty chuffed with the move. Dire season though-even so early in the season, avoiding relegation is looking unlikely....pinning my hopes on the Cornish Pirates winning the championship and Newcastle/Bristol/Leeds failin to feature 🙂

most Sale fans that I have spoken to (all of whom live a good 15-20 miles away mind) were pretty chuffed with the move

Actual ground seems to be OK; transport woeful (no public transport and >90min to get out of what car parks there are), unlike EP where Stockport station and its huge car park were 10min walk away. There was a definite feeling that the move was to benefit corporate sponsors and not normal fans though.

Season is awful. Best we can hope for is building towards the end with a view to next year's promotion battle. Still, playing Bristol/Rotherham/Leeds/Newcastle will give a nice warm nostalgic glow...

Andy

Bad news for London Welsh this.

Not a surprise at all on Redpath. Possibility of Richard Cockerell to follow....?

Who's the far better 7's in Scotland then AA? I've not seen Delon play for a while, but he's supposed to be the best 7 in the super 14 so can't be all bad. There's really a lot of better Scottish 7's (in the 2 teams!)?

AA that was my immediate thought 😐

I wasn't sure about public transport links to the new stadium-i've not been (draft question, is it round the corner from the Trafford center?) I'm a rather casual fan tbh, and keep dropping out of going along. CBA with 90 MNS to get off the car park though. Rotherham games are before my time!

What is diamond up to? Feel sorry for brush, but only a bit.

Rennie and Barclay. If fatty armitage was that good surely he'd have a few more england caps? Seeing as england have no real seven.

transapp - Member
Not a surprise at all on Redpath. Possibility of Richard Cockerell to follow....?

Why would Leicester get rid?

AA - OK, I'll keep my eye on those two. As for Fatty, yes I agree. It's quite odd when you hear pundits going on and on about a player, then England don't select.

Frankers - just a hunch. leicester are no longer the team that everyone fears, leading the way in the AP. They seem to be struggling to adapt to the more expansive play of hairyquims / northants / glouc, and can't stuff it up the jumper and grind out a win like Saffacens. I'm not sure how long the board will put up with it, look at Loffreda (sp) Deano etc... To be honest, I'd like to see them back to winning way so I can wear my shirt with pride in the pubs around Bath!

S Armitage was voted player of the year in France last year, and hes several MoM this year and a few tries. Not sure Rennie or Barclay woud be in a similar position if at Toulon? Eng would not play to his strengths though so not much point in picking him, plus he can't be picked as he plays outside Eng (which is not a good thing IMO)

Steffan armitage had a few games for england and was rubbish. Some players are like that excellent at club level then look out of their depth in internationals. Nicky Robinson is a prime example

But I will say when he played for London Irish, he wasn't the player that he seems to be now. Flattered by team mates? Who knows.

Lions shirt released and praise the Lords of rugby styling, it's got a proper collar!
[img] [/img]

Looks like a proper rugby shirt, not a run & wriggle polyester special.