[Closed] Winters coming;all inclusive rugby thread.

7 points then 😛

Will come down to error count.
Could easily be a single point either way, and I cannot even come close to figuring out who will win it

I wonder why you think it will be 7 points!

Well done Italy though. There is no doubt that we have a genuine 6N and that is an excellent thing. Those pundits and the glory England snaps of historic matches by the BBC made me nervous from the off. That was the Beeb not the England team at fault there. You underestimate Italy at your peril these days.

Well that was rather more exciting than I'd anticipated.....ref was very harsh on Italy other than not seeming to care that their front row stood up in nearly every scrum.

Very impressed with Vunipola today. Woods played well given he isn't an 8 but I think that we are in danger of coming up short in the back row against Wales.

Set's up a classic next weekend, I guess that Wales are favourites.

because england are +43, whereas Wales are +29 so its 14 points between us. So if whales win by 7 then they will be +36, but that will be -7 for us making our difference +36, and wales have more tries than us so they win. It's the Welshes game to lose. Bugger.

Teams with a proper attack would have put 4 tries on Italy there. What happens to the England that came from behind to beat NZ by scoring tries?

Tuilagi ineffective today. Haskell pretty average, and you could see Flood and anyone who managed a break searching desparately for support runners.

Set's up a classic next weekend, I guess that Wales are favourites.

The mighty unbeaten white orcs, the All Black destroyers versus a team that couldnt buy a win until a few weeks ago and have only beaten a shambolic France, Italy and a poor Scotland... Yeah right pull the othe one its got bells on!!

Don't start playing wales' chances down now. You can't be welsh unless you think that they will walk it at home to england.

Cheers for the numbers toys. Was taking the pi**.

Lol good one a_a.

Anyway, I blame Flood, he started the old trundlemuppet moves in this game and it spread like wildfire, everyone going into contact trying to break tackles and never getting the offload. Bag-o-shite.
edit sorry, grahamt, literal interpretation, doh.. Yes I expect us to get trounced on sat, wales play at least 50 times better against england. Hard to see this going well.

stevewhyte - Member

Just how much did Wales pay Joubert?

Rather less than England paid Clancy it would seem?

14 penalties to 5 in England's favour - that's absolutely rubbish.

Clancy penalised an Italian for not rolling away from a ruck but ignored good ol'Toby prone at the base of an Italian attacking ruck within the English 5m? He pinged Italy for sealing off, something which England did repeatedly in the last 30 minutes. There are so many more examples. And as to ignoring Owens' advice about the supposed Italian knock-on, jeez.

England were very, very lucky today. When even Clive Woodward criticises the ref you know something is going badly wrong.

England didn't look like they had a plan about which channel to attack as the attacks were very singular.

Neither side committed many to the breakdown in defence hence a busy midfield.

AA. You called me an idiot last week, but you insist on being insulting rude and bordering on racist let alone blind about the English. I don't understand why you can't keep it to the rugby as fwiw most if your comments (albeit one sided) are well made. Spoils your contribution IMO.

Bear - Member

England didn't look like they had a plan about which channel to attack as the attacks were very singular.

They had a plan but it was to play conservatively until they'd kicked Italy out of the game, hence the short kicks to touch etc. They didn't see Italy as a threat before the game. There's a word for this sort of behaviour... 😆

I think the consensus was the Joubert was shocking yesterday, more so than Clancy. Woodward eluded to that in the post match forum today.

The SRU should really make a formal complaint, and that should be the last 6 nations game he is in charge of.

Clancy was poor today, but not to the same degree.

Granted Wales have not lit the 6N on fire either but the way the forwards played yesterday must be very encouraging. Before the 6N no-one really wanted the ball and they lacked any real physicality and hence the team as a whole really struggled. Yesterday was the complete opposite of that and the England pack today seemed to be playing like Wales before the 6N! Italy did well to give them a real hard time and just lacked that extra bit of class to get the win.

Certainly England's to lose. You would have to expect a tight game or Wales folding completely. Wales as run away winners against England seems highly unlikely regardless of how England have been so far.

Edit: By the way, who is refereeing England Wales? I seem to remember it is Owens but that would be daft...

Walsh ref, joubert running theline. Danw, I was optimistic before the italy game, but england were just crap today. It was like a 24 month time warp..

Steve Walsh is ref for England Wales.

Lets hope its not Steve Walsh. Also we needed a proper 7 today - and need one desparately vs Wales to avoid us pinging ourselves out of the game.

Edit: beaten by idlejohn. Doh, we need to win with tries then...

It is easy to criticize but what is the STW massif's consensus on the better refs around at the moment?

They have a very tough job and are left to lots of interpretation but none the less...

Owens stands out as very fair and consistent for me. Granted he has been known to do some daft things like call all 30 players in to a huddle and ask them to play nicely but still... 😀

Seems Walsh has a history of "England hating" which is nice 🙂

stevewhyte - Member

I think the consensus was the Joubert was shocking yesterday, more so than Clancy. Woodward eluded to that in the post match forum today.

Joubert was poor, but then the Scots hardly helped themselves did they? Woodward was talking about the reffing in general, in response to JD's comments about Clancy.

Owens is the best in terms of consistency.

graham 1980 you don't know much about us Welsh then 😆

Nigel laying the law down 😆

Pigface.
I haven't exactly heard a huge amount of humility coming from the west of the UK for a large number of years.
I do think that on current form wales will win next weekend.
However it could be a blip in englands form on this weekend.
Probably due to inexperience on the part of england causing them to tighten up. I'm hoping that england can play well next weekend and not choke like they did in dublin a couple of years ago.
I do expect that the welsh are expecting a win (cricket score) as they cannot tolerate the thought of england getting a slam.

DanW - Member

It is easy to criticize but what is the STW massif's consensus on the better refs around at the moment?

I rarely see a decent ref these days. The few that are around seem crippled by the constant changes in emphasis on what they should be looking at. (This week it will be hands in the ruck and tip tackles are red cards, next week it will be offside at the line-out and shoulder charging the ruck is the red card of the day..)

You are right the thought of the saes getting the slam is just awful but I am in no way thinking of a nailed on victory. Actually the nerves are already kicking in.

grahamt1980 - Member

Pigface.
I haven't exactly heard a huge amount of humility coming from the west of the UK for a large number of years.

What do we need to be humble about? The suppporters are aware that we have a side that has won GS's in the last few years but doesn't get the consistency it should. A good team when it wants to be. You'd have to be pretty stupid not to see that.

I do expect that the welsh are expecting a win (cricket score) as they cannot tolerate the thought of england getting a slam.

I'll refer you back to Pigface's comments about not having a clue about us Welsh.

I do expect that the welsh are expecting a win (cricket score) as they cannot tolerate the thought of england getting a slam.

You are a mind reader? Let's just hope it's a good game, eh? This years championship hasn't exactly been a classic thus far.

Just found the telling off of all 30 players... Owens starts with "look, I'm not going to make a big deal out of this.. " 😀

Also, didn't he once have a comically large mobile phone to call up the TMO?

AA. You called me an idiot last week, but you insist on being insulting rude and bordering on racist let alone blind about the English. I don't understand why you can't keep it to the rugby as fwiw most if your comments (albeit one sided) are well made. Spoils your contribution IMO.

Nurse!! he's out of his bed again.

For the record can you point out myinsulting, rude and borderline racist posts? Or my posts that are not about the rugby. ( not including posts about Gav, they are clearly not about the rugby)

First weekend was awesome wasn't.....three dire weekends since.

Should be a cracker next weekend.

I think the consensus was the Joubert was shocking yesterday, more so than Clancy. Woodward eluded to that in the post match forum today.

The SRU should really make a formal complaint, and that should be the last 6 nations game he is in charge of.

Clancy was poor today, but not to the same degree.

Based on home advantage, Wales having a team with experience of winning the championship, having parity in the scrum and a quicker back row, I'd go with Wales winning the game but losing the championship on points.

In which case - according to Graham's mindreading - all of Wales will be happy because we'll be the moral victors as England should have lost to Italy today and we can bitch about it for the next year. 😉

Well that wasn't very pretty!
Think we can now dismiss the notion that Italy are the comedy side of the 6N.
I thought Italy looked the more adventurous and dangerous.
If we play like that in Cardiff we will get thumped and rightly so.
I know the focus is on the WC but a Slam en route would be nice.

DanW - Member
It is easy to criticize but what is the STW massif's consensus on the better refs around at the moment?

Me! 😆

Actually, is anybody else a little less confident about a lions series based on the 6N?

Idlejon

You may joke but I would be surprised if you didn't go on the ScrumV forums and other sites and did not read what you just posted about the moral victory.

graham, but everyone who posts on a forum is an idiot, right? 😆

I decided a long time ago that people who post on rugby forums are a special type of person. They aren't representative of the rest of the supporters.

duckman - Member

DanW - Member
It is easy to criticize but what is the STW massif's consensus on the better refs around at the moment?

Me!

Oh sorry, duckman is the best ref in the world easily. Especially when he wears his starspangled lurex kit...

I haven't exactly heard a huge amount of humility coming from the west of the UK for a large number of years.

even I don't think this is true, can we keep it nice please, I would hate for the english to lower themselves, so mind your manners yeah?

To be honest most of them on the ScrumV forum are definately either WUMs or stupid.
Fair enough, I think that it will be a tight one next weekend, and as I said earlier its going to come down to error count, none of the matches this weekend have been anything to get the southern hemisphere nations worried.
But that said Italy worked their try really well (goode being out of position is an issue) and they are definately a threat to any of the 6n. They just need to make sure that they can sustain the threat rather than fade away during the course of the tournament, too inconsistant at the moment sadly.

That had nothing to do with manners toys. Just observed comments (and banter).
Not being impolite, I didn't use the arrogant word either.

Shoe on the other foot?

England looked unsure today and decision making was poor but the scrum was a right old battle, Engalnd started well and the italy on top England will struggle if they cannot match wales in the scrum. Penalty city with Halfpenny slotting them over. Balanced with Farrell danger is a pen fest.

Drop Ashton....nightmare.

Goode had the worst game of the his tournament and lacks penetaration on the attack.

Twelvetrees with Barrit , Tuligani to wing.

Tom Croft must be a starter for next week not the gym monkey Haskell.

Tom Youngs from the bench most likley which is a shame as I think he a better rugby player the Hartley but a poorer thrower.

Robshaw has to be a contender for the player of the tournamnet....hugely consistant.

Warburton was outstanding yesterday great techinque and strength, the scots forwards are really powerful and he dominated the breakdown.

Alun Wyn Jones retrun is a massive boost for Wales.

Philips will be up for it and has started to look in form.

Pains me to say this Wales might sneak it.

I think that Tom Young will start. The bits of Croft that I saw today weren't great but he needs time and I too am no Haskell fan. Can't see Tuilagi at wing myself. Strettle has been on good form of late so I'd recall him.

I'm not sure how anyone can predict a result for next week based on merit. I just hope it is a good game, it's been a pretty dull 6Ns this year.
One things that has shown through is inconsistency in all teams.
Is there too much tactical play in rugby these days, which doesn't leave any room for passion and flair?

I'm not sure how anyone can predict a result for next week based on merit.

Is there too much tactical play in rugby these days, which doesn't leave any room for passion and flair?

I was very worried about browns defence. It's like a wall of paper. The Italians figured this out and a lot of their yards were made down that wing. He's very good going forward but his tackling is substantially worse than Ashton's, and that's saying something. North and/or cuthbert will make mincemeat of him.
Goode/flood did not play well together at all, and the attacking ball always seemed to be looking for contact rather than space. They regressed back to the trundlemuppet days. Worrying sign.
It's a bit of a dis-service to Italy to put everything down to England playing poorly. They defended very well and made life bloody uncomfortable. Personally, I don't think England or Wales are as good as they think they are, but next week is a mouth watering prospect. Looking forward to it.

Vondally, I agree in full!

Especially about Ashton. Seemed to be even avoiding tackles to me!

ashtons shirt was uber clean even near the end

Not seen the England game today, not sure I'll bother either tbh. However England must be favourites next week, but I see little for Wales to be too worried about. Shackle Tuilagi and without Morgan England seem to lack a bit of go forward. If Lancaster could see fit to put him on the wing that would be nice but I doubt he'd be so daft. Scrum battle will be epic, how did Vunipola go today? Should be a close game but I think England have the organisation and discipline (and lineout and maul) to sneak it. Worried about Wales backrow balance with Ryan injured.

To be honest a_a, I can think of better ways to spend 80 minutes. Particularly if a neutral.

Particularly if a neutral

I'm a borderline racist though not a neutral 😆

TBH as an England fan I can think of better things to do that watch that.

I disagree that england are favorites, its even at best.

anyway Wrecker did we not make a ten pound charity bet on the outcome of nexts weeks game or am I thinking of someone else?

Name your charity....If Wales win you can give a tenner to Banardo's

Vunipola was good in all areas a_a. Stood up Castrogiovanni early on (Castro went off injured after 20mins or so though) Very good in the loose too-much more effective than Marler for me.

I agree with Wrecker about Brown too!!! Very lightweight in the tackle.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/rugby-union/the-six-nations?ev_oc_grp_ids=3355

England 8/11 favs, Wales 11/10

We certainly did. With things looking even, it seems like a pretty fair bet to me.
Combatstress if successful please a-a.

I read today that Vunipola's and Faletau are cuzzibro's.

Combatstress it is... I was worried you were going to say the Conservative Party or something!

I'm surprised to be honest. Can't argue with the odds though.
Still see it as even, just got to hope england play well otherwise will get rolled.

Oh

I'm a borderline racist though not a neutral

Shall we do Lion's bickering now or wait until next Sunday? 🙂

Combatstress it is... I was worried you were going to say the Conservative Party or something!

Why on earth would you think that?!?!
I despise politicians of each and every flavour.

Sod it I'm doing it now.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Adam
4. A W Jones
5. Launchbury
6. Ryan Jones
7. Robshaw cpt
8. Beattie
9. Spike
10. Farrell, Sexton if fit.
11. North
12. Many
13. BOD
14. 1/2p
15. Hogg

Failing the above, then the England team that started v's the All Blacks should suffice 🙂

Tom, pretty much right bar BOD. Who will either be retired, or serving a ban for faking a blood injury. 😉

🙂

Barritt has played himself onto the plane too for me.

Missing Capn Hovis IMO

I reckon toms got it about right, but for BOD. A legend of the game but sadly looking a bit fragile now.
Could tuilagi and Roberts work?
Trying to be as unbiased as I can, I simply cannot imagine any justification for warbs being selected over robshaw. He's put the "proper 7" rubbish firmly to bed and played out of his skin every single game.

a_a came up with one of the funniest quotes ever when discussing that pairing Wrecker....claiming that they'd 'have the combined hands of Abu Hamza and that bird from ceebeebies' 😆

There would be some very sore Aussies following every game though........

Could tuilagi and Roberts work?

No. Two similar tools (Not that way!) don't work. Perfect centre partnership? Gibbs and the Gasman. The blunderbuss of Gibbs, and the swivel hips of Punchy O'Guscott. Balance.

Dr Bob and Tuilagi are too similar, IMO. Both are batter and bash. You need a balance.

Couldnt call a team really but a squad like:

1/2p, Hogg
North, Maitland, Cuthbert, ANOther
Roberts, Tuilagi, Davies, BOD
Sexton, Farrel
Phillips, Care, Youngs
Faletau, Beattie
Warburton, Robshaw
Wood, R Jones (Ferris or Lydiate could still go IMO)
Parling, Launchbury, AW Jones, O'Connel
Adam Jones, Dank Hole
Best, Youngs, Hartley
Healey, dont know maybe Vunipola or if he is fit and has a big game next week Gethin he was very good against France and Italy.

Much less confident now, think Aus will run us ragged.

I know you're right CFH. It needs some gap spotting genius, which BOD has in spades. I'm just not sure he'd least the tour 🙁

I thought that Ferris was a definite no? Will Sexton be fit?
Pretty much agree with that squad though Barritt in for Davies though, Visser in for Cuthbert and someone in for Geoff Parking. Jim Hamilton would be good for a few laughs 😀

Ferris hasn't even been playing (injured). Why would he be nailed on?

As in definite 'no' as he is injured!

to be fair Roberts and Davies are a very limited paiing when it comes to passing, Roberts and Tuliagi wouldnt be any worse.

Trying to be as unbiased as I can, I simply cannot imagine any justification for warbs being selected over robshaw. He's put the "proper 7" rubbish firmly to bed and played out of his skin every single game.

Gameplan though isnt it. England play the breakdown very different to Wales. England gain turnovers by trying to tackle runners behind the gainline and counter rucking over the ball, Wales try to chop tackle and jackel. England came a bit unstuck in this against Aus in the autumn as Aus move the point of attack so well which is not to say Wales have done any better with their approach having lost 240 000 times to australia in the last year.
Its a similar theme when you compare the roles of the 8 in the two teams. For England Margan drops back looking to return kicks and so makes more striking runs than Faletau who plays up in the defensive line like a flanker (wales like flankers they have two, plus Faeltau and Phillips, two more in the centres and another two on the wings, its part of the reason their defence is so good.) Intrestingly against france Wood played like Faletau and Robshaw dropped back to field the kicks.

When McVisser learns to put down the schmoke and a pancake, yesh, for sure, and learn to be the tacklesh making, then maybe. Until then, no.

Barritt in for Davies though

not sure what Barritt does that Davies doesnt and Davies scores tries.

Roberts has his Medical degree finals this week, busy boy!!

North, Maitland, Cuthbert, ANOther

Might be tempted to take an extra fullback, maybe Kearney and use 1/2p on the wing