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True, but England should be bale to control their own ball and slow play down
They may(?) be ok with their own ball 1st phase (personally not convinced, but benefit of the doubt for now).
After that, They're gonna struggle at the breakdown. ABs will be there first, it won't matter how big the England pack is - the ball will be gone.
I've not been a fan of Hovis, but he did a decent job against the ABs backed up well by Tipuric and co. Better than anything England can offer, disrupted them second half and secured a bit of ball for Wales.
IMO, the worst team they could hope to play against without a proper seven.
Am I the only one who thinks England will get pumped?
Ioum yes Warburton was much better against NZ. Carried well too, I prefer the way Tips plays but he's still a bit underpowered at the top level. Faletau was very good as well. Hopefully the players will build form coming into the six nations.aA different ten would have helped wales a lot. Shame Hook is not available this weekend.
loum - MemberThey may(?) be ok with their own ball 1st phase (personally not convinced, but benefit of the doubt for now).
After that, They're gonna struggle at the breakdown. ABs will be there first, it won't matter how big the England pack is - the ball will be gone.
You've hit on England's problem there. They really need to play a 10 man Rob Andrew era game, but the media and fans want them to play an expansive game which they don't have the players for (at least as selected).
And with reference to Rob Andrew era England, it seems instructive that they played to their strengths despite having much better backs than the current squad have.
They really need to play a 10 man Rob Andrew era game
Probably true. But more applicable to the 6nations than this coming Saturday. IMO, it's a style that might work for them with some big carriers up front, strong(ish) first phase, and decent kickers.
But I don't think they'll have the option against the ABs 'cos of the way they use 15 players and every inch of the pitch. TBH, I don't really see England having much control of the match at all, but that's not a comment on them being poor - I think they're improving whilst making a few mistakes and bad decisions - just the Abs are that good.
I thought Wales put in their best performance for a while, a bit reminiscent of the France WC game, but were still 33 points down before their "comeback". Not sure how much of that comeback was actually Welsh effort, and how much was the ABs cruising with an eye on the next test. Normally, I'd expect them to turn 33-0 at the hour into a 50 point win. They'll be getting a bollocking for that this week and they'll come out like after the close one against Ireland in the summer, when the final test went 60-0.
Am I the only one who thinks England will get pumped?
No.
Hore gets 5 weeks
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20487856 ]BBC[/url]
usual reasons for cutting the length of the ban - admission of guilt, remorse, conduct at hearing (no idea why that should be taken into account, of course they're going to behave themselves in front of the panel),
plus some comedy gold
"However, the Judicial Officer found that the player had not intended to make contact with the victim player's head."
Its ok everyone. Brad Barrit international superstar and known for his presence in world leading dominant teams, states that the AB's are only "people" and becuase of that that are beatable on Saturday.
Apparantly the fact that they are the AB's, and that they have 20 straight wins over 2 years is neither here nor there.
I've emailed Sky and asked for Barrits phone number becuase as its cold and windy outside, I'm in urgent need of his sports phsycologist to help me want to take my road bike for a ride.
😯
And with reference to Rob Andrew era England, it seems instructive that they played to their strengths despite having much better backs than the current squad have.
10 man rugby does not really work now as it is more difficult to tie the defense in so you need to vary the point of attack more. Frankly England effectively play 11 man rugby as we have a back row ball carrier at 12 (and arguably at 13). I'm sure either of them could be a pretty useful flanker.
Isn't the lessons for AB domination is to do the basics better than anyone else. When watching them play, I rarely think that they have re-invented the game, rather they are brilliant at ruthless execution (combined with past masters of the dark-side both dirty play and off-the-ball stuff). So last Saturday, one try was basic passing along the backs combined with drawing the man. U11 stuff done by the best in the world. Woodcock's try again, classic stuff most of us will have done at school. Contrast that with the basic errors - handling, running lines, tackling, kicking, choices - that litters home nations play. Its the only thing that makes me, sorry made me feel sorry for Andy Robinson!!
Anyone got up-to-date stats of kicking out-of-hand between the Rob Andrew era and some of the SH greats - Carter, Lynah, Botha, Mehrtens etc
"However, the Judicial Officer found that the player had not intended to make contact with the victim player's head."
Things like that make me want to say the word I got banned for last time.
teamhurtmore - I mad that comment during the Welsh game and whole heartedly agree. Add to that the previous comments about players out of position and, well....
FWIW, I thinking we should be picking in-form & in-position specialist players and developing their International credentials. Whats the betting Jonathan Joseph doesn't get much of a look in, and doesn't replace one of the two current centres for the 6N?
Looking forward to watching Freddie Burns play went he comes on with 20 mins left and England trailing by 20.
I see Hore didnt eat any of the biscuits then, infact he must have taken his own ( jammy dodgers i expect).
IRB player fo the year nominees
McCaw
Carter
Michalak
Farrell 😯 WTF
So, do we think Jiffy was right, and that the fourth official should be able to alert the ref to such issues when seen? If it gets shown and reshown on the big screens, everyone knows it happened, so why not have the ref act on it there and then? Only for such cases of nasty, cheap violence, though.
3 fly halves? 🙄
I think it stems from our coaching from a young age.
Back are taught to line up with a steep angle and get the ball to the wings which results in the ball being passed along a static line till it gets to the winger who tries to run round the opposition and may well succeed in junior rugby.
The AB line up the same but the ball goes along a much flatter line only just behind the gain line and the guys hit the ball at pace usually with someone on their shoulder.
We also coach to avoid the contact whereas they look for contact knowing there will be teammates to recycle , they do this till they have created the space, an overlap or a mismatch they can exploit.
If you watch the end of the England game there was a break by Goode and they guy supporting ran a line that took him away from Goode but gave him a clear run in to posts should Goode manage a miracle pass when they needed another phase to work the score
3 fly halves?
No, only two. Carter and Michou are both world class tens. McCaw is a world class flanker. I can only assume the other name is a typo.
So, 3 fly halves then.
Surely a steep line is designed to allow players to hit the line at pace and run onto the pass, doing this with a flatter line is obviously more challenging and requires a greater level of accuracy and skill. Not sure what they teach here now.
One thing they do in NZ which is a good idea is split junior rugby by size rather than age so you need to develop skills to beat your man whatever your size.
ijs445ra - MemberIRB player fo the year nominees
McCaw
Carter
Michalak
Farrell WTF
I wonder how intimidating Andy Farrel can be when he wants something for his offspring? Or was it just plain blackmail? 😆
Merry exactly, but all we do is ship the ball down the same line rather than ball at a flat line players running on
Mefty, I didn't know they did that. That's a very good idea in junior rugby!
Farrell in IRB player of the year? That's a complete and utter joke. He's not even first choice at his club!
I'll watch it happen on Saturday, but I'm not expecting anything other than a damn good kicking. So disappointing after the team of 10 years ago!
Ahhh, distant memories of passing to someone come on to the ball at pace! Of the home nations, I reckon Ireland are the team the comes closest (when on form). The number of times the rest pace to static receivers who then run STRAIGHT into the opposition BEHIND the gain line followed by a very slow recycling of the ball.
Will Ferrell plays rugby?????
The key is to be able to pass out of the tackle, the main reason England don't do this is they are not close enough, you really need to be within an arm's length, but then you also have someone close behind to clear up. You must then not squander the space created by crabbing across the field - the space is behind the man. Very easy to type, less easy to do.
No, only two. Carter and Michou are both world class tens. McCaw is a world class flanker. I can only assume the other name is a typo.
PMSL!
Cipriani was playing for Sale at Glaws the other day and got stuffed out of sight. Is Farrell any better than him? What has he done to get on that list????
I think it stems from our coaching from a young age.
Back are taught to line up with a steep angle and get the ball to the wings which results in the ball being passed along a static line till it gets to the winger who tries to run round the opposition and may well succeed in junior rugby.
Maybe in your school.. At mine we were made to study the posters / practise switches, dummy's, loops etc. Interestingly at my club we were coaches to be no more than 4 feet away from the man you were supporting / run into space, to run on to the ball at pace.
Wasn't it the likes of Jim Greenwood (Total Rugby) who drove the concept away from deep back limes to flat and wide (page 250).
On form, the Irish back line have the ability to do both. Get the ball very widely quickly but also attack the ball at pace. The French are the same and IMO still lime up deep at times.
I do not know Greenwood's work, but the flat line to my knowledge came from rugby league and the australians of 1991 were the first significant international exponents of it. Like any new development no one knew how to combat it, but like with any system whether defensive or offensive, it has strengths and weaknesses. The key is to have the ability to adapt but this takes supreme confidence in your skill level.
The French when on song are simply the best passers in the world, no other country can use the blind side like them. They commit the tacker on the inside shoulder so they don't waste space, yet still present a perfect pass -even when they are a "coarse" club side with pot bellies.
He had a massive impact on SCW!
He made a burg distinction between shallow and wide (liked) and flat (not liked) and stressed why the two were not synonymous. I think may sides, including England, have misunderstood this crucial point. Ditto Total Rugby does not mean having slow hookers/props standing at outside half and iC (and I am a member of the front row union saying that). Again IMO England have missed that point as well.
Barrit has been drinking the same meths Warburton did. What a stupid edge to give the AB's. Hoare has been booked to appear as a villan in Cardiff panto, so a win all round.
Barrit is shit. That is all.
[url= http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/173822.html ]Gatland casts doubts on Robshaw's Lions hopes[/url]
Speaking at the adidas launch of the new Lions shirt for the 2013 tour in Cardiff, Gatland told PA Sport:
"You need genuine sevens going to Australia. You need sevens who are competing hard on the ball and being effective. It's not just about Pocock - there is Hooper and Gill as well. They are three quality sevens."
"I feel sometimes England have struggled for a genuine seven and Chris has been doing that role. People speak very strongly of his leadership qualities and he has come out of Harlequins who have done so well domestically.
"The hard thing is the way the game is played and refereed in the English Premiership, it is dominantly refereed towards the attacking side which often makes it difficult for genuine sevens to get into the game so you can go in there with six-and-a-halves or sixes (in the number seven shirt)."
Interesting take on the Premiership, refereed for attacking rugby but played (very often) defensively.
England team announced, Farrell (he must be good, he's up for player of the year!!!) and Barrett. The back 3 won't get the ball, Tuillagi won't get a single decent pass without it being telegraphed to the entire black wall so will always have 2 players taking him out on the gain line. We'll be turned over and they'll run riot. I havn't been this depressed looking at a game in a long while
transapp - MemberWe have a chance!
From Gwlad a few weeks ago:
Seven Ways Wales Can Beat The All Blacks......................3. Malicious interference
Why is it that – with the high proportion of UK hotel, kitchen and bar staff coming from Australia – the instances of All Black tummy bugs, sworn affidavit bar room allegations and being awoken in the early hours by environmental health inspectors is so low? All Wales is asking for is a level playing field.
I also liked:
New Zealand .....occupy an ethereal plane of rugby that Wales can only fleetingly attain, reached in a thumping tackle on Israel Dagg, a show and go from Jonathan Davies. Gone in the time it takes for Paul James to spill the ball or Mike Phillips to take 2 steps before he passes.
Who is the ref for the clash between Eng v NZ on Saturday?
sputnik - Member
Who is the ref for the clash between Eng v NZ on Saturday?
Does it matter? The only one that'd have a mssive outcome of the game would be Steve Walsh, who would make abslolutey sure the AB's are able to rack up the 50.
As much as a stalwart England supporter that I am, I'm afraid I agree with transapp. Opportunities have been lost by SL to change the side and surprise the AB's. They now know whats coming, and at least half of them could happily take a illness-induced trip to the Kazi mid-matchy without too much worry of England racking up any points while thier gone.
Even DH isn't there to give them some verbal annoyance.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20537967 ]New Zealand's preparations for Saturday's Test against England have been disrupted because of a sickness bug which has swept through the squad. Head coach Steve Hansen revealed all but two members of his squad have suffered with diarrhoea and vomiting.[/url]
🙂
Cmon gents! Am I the only one thinking that England can win this game? Shame on you. It is not a given that NZ just have to arrive , play and win. Sure, they have had a long run of wins now but it HAS to come to an end at some time, may as well be on Saturday.
A Northern Hemisphere ref will be a good start, NZ will have to know that they will be watched and penalised if they get up to any tricks.
England need to be disciplined and not give any soft points away aka penalties. Keep the first half tight and wait for NZ to make mistakes and capitalise .
This Bok supporter second home and second favourite team, after the Boks is England and I will be right behind England all the way tomorrow .
Supporting England (as a sweaty) all they have to do is keep it clean and carry the ball hard, let the ref ping the ABs for on the ground infringements. If he doesn't draw his attention with gentle but deliberate use of the boot (yes you'll get pinged but it'll force the ref to referee the area).
Think the ABs will probably play the more consistent pressurising rugby and England will start to fall apart. Worried about Ashton being sent off again his game seems to have gone to pot recently
I have a feeling that Wales might scratch a win tomorrow dont know why just do.
I would love Ashton to get sent off 😆 overated and is piss poor this year.
onehundredthidiot - MemberSupporting England (as a sweaty) all they have to do is keep it clean and carry the ball hard, let the ref ping the ABs for on the ground infringements. If he doesn't draw his attention with gentle but deliberate use of the boot (yes you'll get pinged but it'll force the ref to referee the area).
That won't work. NZ are quite happy to tackle all day and will knock back even the biggest players. They don't fly over the top of the tackle, or lie on the ground post-tackle much, so waiting for 'on the ground' infringements will never win the game. Even at S15 level their teams will just keep tackling, getting to their feet and waiting for a turnover to happen before they score a try. They are much more intelligent around the breakdown than NH players.
I predict that England will score a handful of penalties and get maybe 6 points ahead. The commentators will start talking about an historic win. Then NZ will turn the ball over 3 times and score 3 tries from them, converting them all. England will fight back, maybe getting to within a try, and NZ will kill them off with penalties and maybe another try.
Pretty specific prediction idlejon!
In the spirit of the earlier conversation, I'd like to wish wales luck tomorrow. I hope at least one of us gets a win.
wrecker - MemberPretty specific prediction idlejon!
Lol. I'm never wrong! Expect England to demolish NZ now.
In the spirit of the earlier conversation, I'd like to wish wales luck tomorrow. I hope at least one of us gets a win.
Here Here, c'mon the Welshies! Oh er, and England...
That's the spirit 😀
Kryton57 - MemberIn the spirit of the earlier conversation, I'd like to wish wales luck tomorrow. I hope at least one of us gets a win.
Here Here, c'mon the Welshies! Oh er, and England...
I'd rather have some moral support for leaving my lovely warm house this evening to endure an evening of sub-zero 'action' at the Liberty.
Ospreys v Blues. It's been raining today as well. It's going to be knock-on central.
I should be looking forward to this game... 😕
Read in the DT about Robshaw learning from his mistakes against SA.
Didn't we get the same headline after the Australia game?
I've never understood this idea of picking a captain first. You should pick the best XV then choose a captain.
Remember when Jack Rowell made Phil de Glanville captain and left Guscott on the bench? Shambolic.
Much as I hate to say it, I'd love to see England get hammered tomorrow. If we've learned so much from the narrow Aus/SA defeats think how much we can learn from a proper mullering by the ABs. 😆
What summed up the whole Autumn campaign for me was at the start of the Fiji game - we got good ball off the top of the lineout, spun it wide and I thought, "Let's see what we've got attacking from 1st phase" and who pops up and outside centre to receive the ball? - Thomas Waldrom!
That was it. With that kind of planning and creativity I knew we were doomed. 🙁
I'll support pretty much anyone against New Zealand. [i]Even[/i] England! 😉
Spreys v Blooz tonight on the interweb....If Little Miss CFH sleeps for a while at least....
De Glanville partnered Guscott at Bath and it was more a case of Guscott left out to accomodate Carling who was shunted to outside centre.
Blues in a spot of bother now!
Blues are shit. Another dire game.
Flash if you want I can get a little baby grow thing for your daughter from the Ospreys shop tomorrow. I realise it wont be a label but the offer is there. 🙂
Did I miss something? Did mrs flash pop sprog?
🙂
Osp Blues really is dire, IdleJon you should've stayed in the house!
I did 😆
Russian props 😯
🙂 @ the above!
Have ordered an Ospreys and WRU baby grow for her already! Much to Mrs CFH's chagrin! 🙂
Not a great game this, is it?
Nowt wrong with Moldovan props! And, have you seen some of those Georgians...!
Jiffy has had a few sherrys by the sound of it 😆
Wtf....in what world was that a yellow card for blues 7? Makes a tackle rolls away maybe 2 seconds after hitting the deck and he finishes the match in the bin! McCaw probably wouldn't have had much of a career in the NH!
Pinged the wrong person to be honest, it was the winger who should of gone off.
Did I miss something? Did mrs flash pop sprog?
[img] 
[/img]
❓
Pinged the wrong person to be honest
Happens to [i]most[/i] 7s these days. See Cap'n Hovis getting pinged unfairly last weekend.
Little Miss CFH slept through the whole game. I nearly did as well, to be honest.
thegreatape, I shall challenge you to pistols at dawn, Sir! To say that I would wear shoes like that! A challenge, Sir, a challenge! Consider my gauntlet thrown!
In light of your chosen weapon, I gladly accept.
😆
Oh and wearing puce trousers is ok? 😯
Of course not! And a two button jacket? Shocking!
Oh, and Mrs CFH has [i]much[/i] nicer legs than that! 🙂
Oh I'm so glad that ain't you flash. That bloke should be ****ing exterminated for those trousers.
Can't be CFH, must be a Queensland 'Reds' fan!
IGMC
I just noticed the expression on the kids face 😆
What a shit ref first yellow was wrong and second was wrong AND wrong player....
Jesus shitting christ how bad can it get Lou ****ing Read in for injured Ian Evans tomorrow!!!
Right then....the day dawns! Let's see your predictions, if you please!
England v The Combined Pacific Islands Dancing and Punching Troupe - TCPIDPT to win by plenty. As in over 15
Wales v Strines - Wales. By a score. Yes, seriously.
Wales v Strines - Wales. By a score. Yes, seriously.
It was my call yesterday just have a feeling......oooooherr Matron
Crims by 15-20
All Thugs by 5-10
I'm about to spend 3 hours on a bike with a very cold face. I'll give it some thought during that time.
TCPIDPT
?
By my reckoning, New Zealand have 15 New Zealanders in their starting 15
Wales have more players starting from the "Combined Pacific Islands Dancing and Punching Troupe". With a Saffer and 5 English too.
And a worse disciplinary record too. And now, it seems, a growing reputation as bad losers.
So predictions:
New Zealand, best rugby team in the world, by 31 points
Welsh fans to spend the next week (or month, or year) whinging about overseas players, dodgy officials, citings, and the naughty boys who tackle to hard.
i.e. Oz win.
😆the naughty boys who tackle to hard
if you could get them to stop that it will help