You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Right then. Given the last few months of winter, is there anyone out there that would seriously argue against using full winter tyres or at the very least All Season tyres, in the winter? Ok, lets narrow this down a bit. Only people who HAVE to drive whatever the weather, and not those lucky people who can take a "snow day".
FFS read the other two recent really long posts.
It doesn’t need to be done to death again.
Post a link and I will then.
Winter tyres FTW - 6-7 yrs ago Michelin and Conti told me winters all year was preferable to summers all year.
Google singletrackworld winter tyre and you will have thousands of posts bickering and proclaiming driving god status in a fiat panda. General rule seems to be pick to use them or not then be a dick about it.
Only people who HAVE to drive whatever the weather, and not those lucky people who can take a “snow day”.
If you have to drive somewhere then work will organise to get you there. Another hero battling to work causing a crash and blocking the roads won't help.
It really depends how much snow you get though. By the looks of here for 2 days it wouldn't be worth it at all.
It really depends how much snow you get though. By the looks of here for 2 days it wouldn’t be worth it at all.
Despite the many previous threads and thousands of posts some folk still can't differentiate between "winter" and "snow". Maybe there's a point to this thread after all.
Ah and can't be bothered still not fully winter enough in lots of places and most of the time essential driving is a self importance thing.
I have never bothered with winter tyres in Britain and on deserted country roads I've been able to get anywhere I wanted with plenty of momentum and smooth driving. However on congested urban roads you will be blocked by all the other muppets so you won't move at all, summer tyres or winter.
Only worth it if you live in the country and are likely to be able to move anywhere.
how about rather than the visual clues such as snow - we go by the thermometer definition of when winter tires become beneficial anything below +6/7
Does that make it more than your 2 days ?
paramedics , firemen , policemen , nurses , doctors , all the other people who keep the hospitals running are all full of self importance .....
Thank you trail-rat and scotroutes. As in my original question, can anyone possibly put up an argument against there use?
They're a lot noisier, at least the ones that came on my car are.
Just get some Michelin Cross Climates and be done with it.
*their
I'm in Germany and winter tyres are generally used from October through to the end of March. In southern Bavaria where I live people tend to leave them on till the end of April.
Much better in the snow than "summer" or aka normal tyres, but also better braking performance in the wet and are better in temps below 7°C.
I know of a few people who don't do that many miles so leave them on all year round.
I reckon for the UK they make more sense than summer tyres given the average temps at 7am when puerile are driving to work and the amount of rainfall in the UK.
They are a bit squirmy in the summer if driven 'enthusiastically'. That's the best I can manage in the negative column - otherwise they are brilliant. Yes, some numb nuts will say 'it only snows two days a year' but that's totally missing the point. They just make the car more predicable and work more effectively in temperatures below 7 deg. Yes, I can drive with caution on snowy ungritted roads with them where on summer rubber I would verging on irresponsible but they are not studded tyres (I've used those in Iceland and that's another level - 60mph in a 4X4 on an ungritted main road with 12 inches of hardpacked snow and ice between you and tarmac just becomes normal). They just are better at being tyres when it's cold and deal with the wet and especially with icy patches better. It dosen't make you a crazy loon/hero and yes I drove in similar conditions for 25 years without killing myself or anyone else on summer rubber but when you have tried them you soon realise it's just better. It's like having improved brakes on your car - it does not mean you have to drive everywhere at speeds the new brakes can handle and the old ones could not - but you are grateful they are there non the less and after a while can't believe you lived with the old ones so long.
I did drive them through the last couple of summers on a car (a fwd hot hatch if that makes a difference) that was not getting much use as I never got around to buying new summer rubber for my other rims and they are not ideal in the summer - a bit draggy and knocked a little bit of the mpg and no comparison to a premium summer tyre driving a bit daft but on a sensible car bought for getting from A to B rather than anything 'performance' minded I think I would choose a single pair of winters over a single pair of summers if I had to choose one or the other. There is not even as much of a price difference any more though I suspect their life is a bit shorter if used 12 months a year especially as minimum tread needs to be a bit more if it is to do it's job in the winter.
edit - and as Matt says it does depend where in the UK you live and how you use your car. Even if you live in the soft south if you are reguarly on the road before 0700 and return home after 6 or 7 in the evening chances are you do the bulk of your miles in sub 7 degs for a sizable chunk of the year.
UK
As already said, please can we be aware that the average temperatures in Arundel are a bit different from Aviemore. Makes quite a difference on tyre choice.
Winter tyres are also better on wet grass - not an uncommon circumstance in the UK summer if you happen to be visiting beaches, campsites, festivals etc.
I've been using them since my conversations with conti and michelin. The difference in grip on cold, wet or dry tarmac over summer tyres is huge. I have also found when you hit ice, you get feed back allowing your to steer accordingly.
Also summer tyres (harder compounds) wear more quickly in the winter. I find swapping between summer and winter tyres I get more miles out of tyres (as well as the winter tyres being better in the cold/wet/snow as others have said).
My summer tyres will need replacing before next winter. As I live in the London suburbs, my car is RWD and has mismatched sizes and i often find myself in grassy mtb event car parks I’m looking at:
a) replacing the current sized tyres with the best wet- rated tyres I can get or
b) investing in a new set of 4 same size alloys and sticking Cross Climates or similar on them.
I get the impression that cross climates are all season tyres with a summer bias and the rest is marketing.
I'll pitch in again as I'm a big fan of 'winter' tyres...
* They are not just designed for snow. The rubber compound is different to work way better at lower temps. Summer tyres become plastic in cool/cold weather (i.e. UK winters) and grip a lot less well, regardless of road condition.
* Winter tyres wear a lot better in winter. Summers, especially in cold weather, wear most over winter IME. If you've got two sets of tyres/wheels, you get way better long term wear, so the overall tyre cost is less than just running summers (or winters) year-round
* Should you happen to get snow, it's night and day difference in grip levels. No need for driving god status, just drive sensibly and you can almost get anywhere. I live on the hilly streets of Sheffield - it's quite amusing watching summer-shod cars slithering all over whilst cars on winters drive round and past.
* Tyre manufacturers recommend that in the UK 'generally' if you stick to one tyre type year round, then use winters or 4-season tyres, rather than summers.
I have full winters on atm. When they wear out im going all season. Could be the brand but they are noisy and feel draggy. They are squirmy when taking a corner at speed. Got them cheap and have enjoyed them from september until now, but i cant see how they will be of use from now until sept/oct.
I agree with cp and convert, i didn't type it all out 'cause i'm fed up of trying to exlpain to people why winter tyres are good, the difference between traction and grip etc...
In reponse to kryton57 - if you are going to go with the cross climates use them all year, but if you are investing in some new wheels get some winter tyres and research the best summer typres for your purposes. I initially thought rainsport 3 but I dont think that tread would work in a field. I have P7 cinturato blue on my car, hardly state of the art but lots of angles to help grip a field - those could be a starting point for your reseach.
The wnters I have are blizzak LM35, I have been pleased with them over the last 7 winters
Bsims - you mean 2 sets of wheels? Yes I'd thought of some winter steels which may be the right option.
However, with a RWD car I don't want to be caught on a rainy April weekend with Summers on if I don't have too. Having said that, 3 years of run flat Potenza's has only seen me stuck once to date.
is there anyone out there that would seriously argue against using full winter tyres or at the very least All Season tyres, in the winter?
Seriously? Are tubeless tyres worth the hassle? Are you overbiked? Which German sports estate will take three fat bikes without removing the wheels? Which artisan coffee bean is as good as Nescafe? This is STW, of course there will be people here who will seriously argue against anything. If I told you that the world was globe-shaped, someone would be along shortly to argue the contrary.
Bsims – you mean 2 sets of wheels? Yes I’d thought of some winter steels which may be the right option.
That's what I do, however the last time I was stranded in a grassy field at a mountain bike event - Hit The North, the first one I think - I simply enlisted the services of a handy amateur rally driver to slew my Mk2 GTi back onto firm ground.
That said, I'm not convinced winter tyres give that much more grip off-road than summer ones. Have you considered a nice Defender with full-on off-road knobblies?
Was just thinking about this last night. I've always used winters in the past but never got around to fitting them to this car (bought last summer).
In the first bit of snow this winter it obviously didn't perform as well (even with 4wd, previous cars were Fwd). But what I really missed was the security of driving in cold wet conditions at 5:30 in the morning or late at night. I managed to get a good deal on some Dunlop WinterSports and the difference was night and day - they have been great all winter.
Thing is I tow a caravan (I know, I know!) which gets used all year and often find myself in muddy fields so was thinking of leaving the winters on which are mud + snow rated and have a more aggressive tread. The winters are just as quiet as the summers (also Dunlop) and have been fine when temps have been in double figures. I did try and find a decent all season tyre but none are available in my size (245/40/19).
But what I really missed was the security of driving in cold wet conditions at 5:30 in the morning
This is what compels me - I'm a travelling Salesman, I'd just like to think I have the maximum level security doing the same.
Bsims – you mean 2 sets of wheels? Yes I’d thought of some winter steels which may be the right option.
Yes - Dosent have to be steel, yu could find some replica wheels/ thicker spoked winter wheels etc. I have some VW caddy alloys as my winter wheels.
You can swap them yourself when you like and are not compromised by Jack of all trades all season rubber.
Bsims – you mean 2 sets of wheels? Yes I’d thought of some winter steels which may be the right option.
They don't have to be the same size as your OEM alloys, I use 205/55 R16 winters and 225/45 R17 summers. It's worth checking if you can get away with the same tyres all round too, my car has various options including different sizes front and rear. I prefer to run the same size to even out wear then replace as a matched set.
Agree with the 2nd set of alloys. Trick it to finding them cheap. Also agree with possibly sizing down for the winter - more pothole protection too although you need to take care your new alloys will clear your calipers and are still an approved size for your car for insurnace purposes.
The apporved list of sizes, LI, and speed rating will be inside the fuel flap
This intrigues me.
The V70 came with 225 50 r17 on as it's an SE.
Business Edition or ES run 205 60 r16 which are both more comfy and a lot cheaper on tyres.
I'm really tempted to swap, I've some Volvo alloys on Gumtree nearby. What do I need to know before I try to swap?
Roughly (you'll have to google to have the terms exactly right) wheels are measured by the diameter, the width, the BCD pattern, the bore size, the offset and the load capacity. BCD and bore has to be the same to physically fit on the car and the offset and the width combination need to be right too (i.e. the offset might be a bit different to your current ones if the width is a little different). Basically I'd look at your manual and see what options are possible for your model and go from there. As they are Volvo that's a good start to some of the measurments being correct.
What do I need to know before I try to swap?
BCD and Bore as above - also if the offset is the same a smaller wheel will clear suspension and steering hardware but disc and caliper clearance will be tighter. Was it an option on the SE? If not you might have insurance issues with fitting a non-standard part.
MOAB - thats another reason for me to consider 1 x set of alloys with all seasons. Where I'm located I'm unlikely to need a "snow" tyre, and if it does snow and I need to get out we have the 4x4 Kuga with all seasons already.
Its an option to move away from the BMW mixed sizes and runflats, both of which pump up the cost of replacement tyres. However, it'd take 4-5 sets of new tyres to offset the different cost of the current sized tyres so thats a factor. The main issue I have is a very limited tyre range for my rears - 245/18/35 - meaning I'd have different front and rears. Changing the alloy to 4 x the same size really helps.
I put 225/45 r17 on instead of the manufacturer 225/50 r17 as it's a more common used tyre much better deals, i will be putting my alloys back on soon a twenty mins job and then watch the kerbs, dont worry so much with khumos and scabby steel but the grip is amazing going up and coming down again
<div class="bbp-reply-author">andy8442
As in my original question, can anyone possibly put up an argument against there use?
Yes, in the summer they get too soft and the tyres squirm around on the treads too much making them unpredictable in corners. This can lead to a situation where the lug can tear off completely causing a catastrophic failure of the tyre.
End thread?
if you take the original alloy wheels off the car and put some steel wheels on.
don't assume that your insurance is still valid.
if you take the summer tyres off the car and put winter tyres on.......
that is mainly why crossclimate tyres exist.
As in my original question, can anyone possibly put up an argument against there use?
Yes: I can't be bothered. How's that, OP?
if you take the original alloy wheels off the car and put some steel wheels on. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">don’t assume that your insurance is still valid.</span>
If you need to make a claim, on what grounds would they refuse the claim? It has to be material to the cause of the loss, and I'm struggling to think of a scenario.
The ABI's list of whether insurance companies require notification of the fitting of winter tyres plus whether it affects the level of cover. In short, mostly it's not an issue, but you should probably tell your insurance company just in case.
It's actually pretty hard to "invalidate your insurance", but you can negatively affect it or cause yourself hassle. Putting alloys on a steel wheeled car can be seen as relevant to theft coverage, frinstance, which is fair enough. So it's something you should check but it's not likely to actually be an issue. My guys don't care, because I swap one 17 inch alloy with another. Fitting different tyres but not wheels is <not> a modification, nor are minor changes of size.
Yesterday was horrible here, I had a couple of must-attend appointments and the fresh snow went instantly into danger-slush then got more snow on top, so it was slippy but also deceptive- it'd have been very nasty on normal tyres.
Scotroutes:
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
"Winter tyres are also better on wet grass – not an uncommon circumstance in the UK summer if you happen to be visiting beaches, campsites, festivals etc."
</div>
Yup. And generally for mud too, I pulled a Freelander out of muckmedden forest with my Focus one time on my old Hankook Icebears. The wintercontacts I have now aren't as great at mud but they're still way better than any normal tyres I've used. (and, um, twice now when I've swapped back to my everyday tyres, I've got the car stuck in mud soon after by forgetting I don't have cheat tyres on...)
Hmm, the 17" rims are standard on V70 SE, so the move to the (currently on Gumtree for £100) Volvo 16" alloys would be a modification.
Tyre price difference is £40-50 a tyre each time though... They would payback purchase cost in a year, and I would move to Crossclimates...
Time to find out how much the insurers would charge me.
So why not an A rated run flat which has lots of sipes, would that not be a cheaper semi-grippy on grass solution e.g https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/michelin/pilot-sport-3-zero-pressure/245/35/R18/Y/92/f?tyre=33800322 ?