[Closed] Winter tyres for cars

uk prices are a rip off!

you fit the same size. on the continent they have steel wheels for winter use, just to protect their alloys. some go skinnier, but that's up to you. they are not snow tyres, just more silicon and more aggressive tread pattern, so give better grip in temperatures below 7degrees.

150 per corner fitted

At £600, I'd be ballanceing out the "it could be childs face" Vs how much is your insurance excess Vs will they encourage you to drive in conditions where you really shouldn't thus injuring the childs face anyway? Bear in mind they don't work much better on snow or ice than normal tyres? They're just an improvement on normal tyres in colder weather, so while narrower tyres will help in snow, they're still not designed for it.

Bear in mind they don't work much better on snow or ice than normal tyres?

You have data to back that up obviously.

To the OP.

No, you don't need to have identical size tyres. As long as the overall rolling circumference is within a few percent. There are online calculators to make life easy for you.

i just bought a set of 4 steel wheels with avon winter tyres fitted... £488 delivered. They are en-route now, should arrive later this week.

from [url= http://www.mytyres.co.uk ]www.mytyres.co.uk[/url]

Dave

You can either fit a slightly different size, or get new rims. Will affect your speedo though unless you have some means of calibrating it. Possibly insurance too I dunno.

Best tyres without doubt for us are Nokian WR G2, I got mine for £90/corner in 215/55/R16.

Are there many of us that actually need winter tyres in the UK? I cannot see the point.

(no arguments on whether I REALLY need them)?

Are there many of us that actually need winter tyres in the UK? I cannot see the point

😆

To answer the OP's question, yes you can use a different size tyre, just so long as your rim is designed for the chosen size and your car has clearance for it when turning (you should be able to extract these pieces of info from the manual).

Cheers
A happy owner of Mondeo with spare set of rims with winter tyres. 🙂
They'll be going on December-ish

No experience of the Kumho brand, however the Conti Winter contacts I bought last winter were great.

Not everyone "needs" a winter tyre, but for those that do or for piece of mind I think they are a price worth paying. Mind you, I only paid £320 fitted for 4x205/55 fitted.

You have data to back that up obviously

Pffft this is STW I dont need data to back up my baseless opinions!

Do you have any data to prove the oposite?

Snow/Ice tyres have a blocky tread and metal studs

M&S/winter tyres are designed to clear a bit more water/slush from the tread and work a little better at cooler temperatures.

I'm not saying dont use them, I'm saying there seems to be an impression that they'll give magical levels of grip when in reality the only stuff that'll grip on snow/ice are chains or studded tyres (which are ilegal on cleared roads). And you don't suddenly see cars in hedgerows everytime the temperature drops below +7degC. What you do see is cars in hedgerows when it snows and people are determined to get out regardless of the conditions.

I doubt that I *need* them for general winter weather, but half way through the snowy armageddon last year my dad had them fitted to his car.

On summer tyres, he could barely move along, and got stranded 1/4 mile from his house because there was a slight dip in the road.

On winter tyres, he was back to normal... still quite careful (obviously), but pulling away, steering and braking performance were excellent, and he could actually use his car, rather than it being a useless lump.

Dave

^^^^ this!

Convinces me

Are there many of us that actually need winter tyres in the UK? I cannot see the point.

MF - grip better below 7 or 10C or so, which could save your life. Also better in heavy rain and mud. But the simplest one is that summer tyres wear much more quickly in the cold, faster than winter tyres, so if you run two sets of tyres you will get more than twice the lifetime out of them saving you money AND be safer AND be able to drive in the snow. Not only that, but they are way better on ice which that video shows - how many stories have you heard where people 'lost it on some black ice'? I've heard loads.

If you can afford the initial outlay it's a no brainer.

thisisnotaspoon - Member
You have data to back that up obviously
Pffft this is STW I dont need data to back up my baseless opinions!

Do you have any data to prove the oposite?

Snow/Ice tyres have a blocky tread and metal studs

M&S/winter tyres are designed to clear a bit more water/slush from the tread and work a little better at cooler temperatures.

I'm not saying dont use them, I'm saying there seems to be an impression that they'll give magical levels of grip when in reality the only stuff that'll grip on snow/ice are chains or studded tyres (which are ilegal on cleared roads). And you don't suddenly see cars in hedgerows everytime the temperature drops below +7degC. What you do see is cars in hedgerows when it snows and people are determined to get out regardless of the conditions.

Winter tyres work WAY better on snow & ice.
Having driven cars in North Bavaria during winter when there was at least several inches of snowfall most nights, I can say that they definitely work.
You could almost drive 'normally' with them fitted. The area I lived in was pretty hilly, but we had no problems driving with winter tyres.

If I lived in that Scotland I'd get them but I'm inside the M25 and it's pointlessI'd rather work from home for a few days..

M&S rated tyres come in studded and non-studded varieties. Studs are better on ice of course but not necessarily on snow. In Finland they mostly use studs but not everyone does, and the studded tyres have the same kind of tread as the non studded ones. Watch the video to show how well NON studded winter tyres work on ice.

And they DO give pretty much magical levels of grip, compared to summer tyres.

and it's pointless

You been reading this thread? People are queueing up to tell you why it's not pointless.

I'd be looking at getting a set of steelies as alfabus has done.

Pointless in the context that I drove without any issues in last years snow as down here it just wasn't that bad. It lasted a week and was only really bad on two days.

I got some new Michelin Alpin winter tyres free on a set of alloys I bought in the summer of 2009. I sceptical of the benefits of winter tyres but over the last 2 bad winters I never got stuck once in the snow. I found them a lot better than the Michelin PS3's and Vreds Ultrac Sessanta in the cold and wet of winter when it wasn't snowing providing both better handling and shorter braking distances.
I think I will have another 3 winters out of them and will continue to use winter tyres.

If you are going to go for it, do it quickly. Winter tyres are only manufactured in the summer, by now they are starting to sell out, as there aren't many folk in the UK who use - them so stocks are low from the outset.

I live in Switzerland where winter tyres are higly recommended (basically if you crash because you don't have them your insurance is invalid).
I had the same problem as the OP and bought some 17" alloys and winter tyres for my Golf. It worked out cheaper than buying 18" winter tyres in my case (and would have been much cheaper if I'd bought steel wheels).
The only problem I had was as the Golf was an R32 I had to be very careful that the smaller alloys didn't foul the brake calipers. Unless the Mondeo is an ST24 that shouldn't be a problem?

I never really drove the car on snow on summer tyres for a comparison but I never had a problem with the car in some pretty poor conditions. They DO work on ice BTW (up to a point) as there are lots of little sipes on the blocks that get compressed as the tyre rolls and they act like lots of little suckers...

I'm saying there seems to be an impression that they'll give magical levels of grip when in reality the only stuff that'll grip on snow/ice are chains or studded tyres

I'd totally disgaree with this based on an experience I had last year. Two Golfs one my mates, one mine; about six inches of snow on the road up to my parents house (a mile or so, very steep in places). He had winter (winter, not snow) tyres I didn't; he could hill start, brake, drive virtually as if the snow wasn't there. I couldn't and had to abandon.

Mine had wider profile to start with which I kow wouldn't have helped, but the difference was astounding.

Two Golfs, one stuck, one not!
[IMG] [/IMG]

Hmm, now what...
[IMG] [/IMG]

This vid pretty much sums it up (skip to 1:20 ish)

He had winter (winter, not snow)

Winter tyres ARE snow tyres.

Winter tyres ARE snow tyres

I meant in contrast to the metal-studded tyres described.

Further to my post above,

+1 what Brycey said....

This has got me thinking. My fronts are getting quite low and will need replacing soon anyway. Might just get front & rear winter tyres, then get new fronts come spring next yr.
MyTyres currently have Kumho winter tyres for my car - £75/corner.

I put snow tyres on the driving wheels of the Yaris last winter and was mightily impressed.

I'll be sorting out all four corners this year.

I picked up Lassa Snoways (excellent cheesey name ) for about £60 ea and they were great. I left them on all summer as I do quite alot of fire roads and muddy roads , they drive well on the tar generally and I haven't seen huge wear but this summer was pretty cool up here.

Vredestein Wintrac 4 Xtreme have a terrible name but are genuinely astounding. Highly recommended.

nickf - that brand would cost me a grand for 4 tyres - no rims, just the rubber! Maybe I'll just get winter tyres for the other half's car!

alfabus - what size wheels were they from mytyres?

205/55/16 - so 16" rims (audi A4).

stumpy01 - Member

MyTyres currently have Kumho winter tyres for my car - £75/corner.

If they're for Kumho I`ZEN KW23, then take a look here: http://www.oponeo.co.uk
Admittedly not fitted (£10 a wheel by a local fitter?) but a lot cheaper than I could find on blackcircle or mytires

Though opinion on the Kumho's (£60 per wheel for me) is seemingly very very split, but compared to the price of the Nokian WR G2 (£80 per wheel), I dunno what to do... espcially though my car hand book doesn't specify any particular size, it does specifiy I need 4 winter tyres if I run any at all.

I know a lot of ppl recommend getting steel rims, but it seems to me if your 'just' getting similar sized steel rims (not going down a size 18 to 17 as above) there very little price difference...

I have the Nokians - the tyres were absolutely superb. They are quiet and I gained 2-3mpg over the summer tyres they replaced. They are also silica compound so should last ages and ages - 40-50k miles from my other silica tyres easily. They do very well in tests, and are optimised for mud and slush whilst still being only slightly less good in pure snow than the very best. Which is really perfect for the UK.

Watch out for buying online without a fitter. Almost all of our local garages, bar one dodgy back alley garage I found, refused point blank to fit tyres bought elsewhere, those who agreed to fit wanted £25 per tyre. "You didn't buy through us, we won't fit it".

Coffeeking, considering the amount of fitters about, I'm sure you can dig around and find one who's more reasonable about it. Or at least use the supplied price as a bargaining tool.. but it's a fair warning.

cb - you're not looking hard enough or you've got seriously odd wheel sizes. I've got 255/55/19 wheels, and could get Vredestains fitted for £700 (admittedly from a specialist 4wd place)

Coffeeking, considering the amount of fitters about, I'm sure you can dig around and find one who's more reasonable about it. Or at least use the supplied price as a bargaining tool.. but it's a fair warning.

z1ppy - Member
stumpy01 - Member
MyTyres currently have Kumho winter tyres for my car - £75/corner.

If they're for Kumho I`ZEN KW23, then take a look here: http://www.oponeo.co.uk
Admittedly not fitted (£10 a wheel by a local fitter?) but a lot cheaper than I could find on blackcircle or mytires

Cheers Zippy. I had a look but they only have 3 tyres available for my size (205/45/16) and the cheapest were Hankook Icebears at £96/each.

It could mean the saving stuffing your car into a kerb hard or having to sit in your car for a few hours freezing your tits off.

The latters priceless to avoid but the former would cost you a hell of a lot more to repair than the cost of the tyres.

In Germany they are compulsory. Doesn't that say something to you?

coffeeking - Member
Watch out for buying online without a fitter. Almost all of our local garages, bar one dodgy back alley garage I found, refused point blank to fit tyres bought elsewhere, those who agreed to fit wanted £25 per tyre. "You didn't buy through us, we won't fit it".

Yeah, this can be a problem....

Colleague of mine was looking to do this and was about to give up as he couldn't find anyone to fit them.
He rang the Skoda dealer he bought his car from & they said they'd fit them for £13.50/tyre. No idea if this is just 'cos he bought the car from them or whether they'd do it for anyone.

My local garage that I have used for the last 8yrs or so for all work, does mine for £10/tyre. 🙂

In Germany they are compulsory. Doesn't that say something to you?

they have regular and persistent winter conditions in germany?

To answer OP, no, as long as overall circumfrence is the same, online calculators will let you know. I did that last year, cos my regular size wasn't available.

Just make sure you declare whatever you do with your insurance.

Now, to join in with the argumement we weren't supposed to have.

Got winter tyres on my car last year. Live in Scotland. Amazing grip and confidence on snow and ice. Just kept going when others were spinning, slipping and sliding, or just stuck. It's not just the tread, but the fact that the rubber compound stays soft and grippy below 7deg, while regular tyre rubber goes hard and brittle. So they're better even in the dry and rain in winter than normal tyres. They should really be called cold weather tyres. Winter tyres are a legal requirement for winter in Germany etc, which says something. They cost similar to your summer tyres, and while one set is on, the other set is off, so overall, your tyre costs are more or less the same. There really is nothing to loose by getting them, and everything to gain. I reckon they should be made compulsory here, if everyone had them, there the roads would keep moving when the snow came.

jambo We don't have regular frost/sub-zero conditions in addition to may areas of Britain covered with snow?

Summer and most 'eco' tyres are crap in freezing conditions as the silica in the compound isn't designed for the weather.

At the end of the day its your money but for the sake of the outlay on decent (alpins for instance) you have tyres which will help you avoid crunching into someone else, being stranded etc etc.

In Germany they are compulsory. Doesn't that say something to you?

Well, it's not true anyway. You can be fined if you don't have winter tyres and are driving in conditions that would require them but there are no mandatory dates you have to have winter tyres fitted between.

btw, I changed my car this year, so have last year's winter tyres for sale.

175/65 R14. Continental TS800. About 3000 miles on them.

Would let them go for arounf £150. In edinburgh.

e-mail in profile.

Last winter I fitted a set of Nokian WR G2s to some rims I picked up off ebay. When the snow came (and it was 2ft deep for over a week) the only vehicles going along my road were a Unimog, a couple of tractors, the odd Defender, and me. When the slush took over they were still peerless. I can't imagine going through a normal winter now without having them on, never mind another winter like the last couple we've had.
Went down a size from 215 45 17 to 205 55 16 with no issues - just enough clearance for the front calipers.

175/65 R14

and [url= http://www.etyres.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator.htm ]here's[/url] a calculator to let you know if these will fit you:

175/65 R14. Continental TS800. About 3000 miles on them.

Would let them go for arounf £150. In edinburgh.

That was all going so well until the "in Edinburgh" bit 😉

Well, each tire has a diameter of 570mm height of all 4 tyres stacked is 670mm, and and weight is 20kg, if you wanted to find out how much for a courier.....very likely prohibitive, but you never know.

You have mail...

Cool, will pick up your mail at home tonight.

Also emailed looking for tread depth info, and could drive over 😀

In Germany they are compulsory. Doesn't that say something to you?

they have regular and persistent winter conditions in germany?

This, we get a week with a foot of snow and are suprised by it, they get several feet for months every year?

IIRC it's compulsorary in various areas, i.e not in the north, but is a requirement in the mountainous parts of Germany/Italy/France/Swizerland and there are fixed dates for the start/end.

IIRC it's not compulsory, but would be one of those things that would be considered negligence in a crash, invalidate your insurance, or if you get stuck and block the roads you get a fine too.

The reason we're surprised by a foot of snow is that it's rare. Don't beat ourselves up about it. It would cost bajillions to equip our country to the same level as others, so it makes far more sense to just take the hit.

A set for my merc including wheels is c£1500! That does include fitting/ delivery etc. Hell of a lot to shell out though, not convinced it'll make the RWD any better yet either.

It will make it tons better. Tons and tons.

A set for my merc including wheels is c£1500!

Aw....didums

😉

Last winter my Toyota on summer tyres had all the grip of a baby on a bar of soap in snow and ice. Fitted winter tyres for £60 a corner and in the next lot of snow I drove past a stranded Discovery and BMW X4. The look on their faces was worth the money alone...

Yeah.. that's what you get for buying a Merc innit!

Correct. Over here in Germany it isn't compulsary to have winter tyres but you will invalidate your insurance if you crash or you will get fined if you get stuck on the roads without them on your vehicle as you are deemed to have your car in an unroadworthy condition for the conditions of the day.

Just to clarify a few points. They are not snow tyres (you need snow chains for that) but they are much better than summer tyres in the snow. All the people over here have a spare set of rims (usually cheaper steel rims) for their winter tyres so it is just a case of changing the wheels over every October and March. Lastly they perform much better in the wet than summer tyres when the temperatures are lower which to me make it a no brainer in most parts of the UK over the winter months.

I think they are still considered snow tyres if they have a snowflake and M&S stamped on the side (mud and snow, not marks and spencers).

[i]I think they are still considered snow tyres if they have a snowflake and M&S stamped on the side (mud and snow, not marks and spencers). [/i]

Then good luck to you when you have to drive up to a ski resort in the Alps after some heavy snow.

OP - very similar tyre sized on my Mondeo ST, completely terrible in the snow until I put the Kumhos (KW27 maybe) on the front. What a difference it made. Would have got them all round but, like you say, it's not cheap. May get two more before the snow starts but they seem more than they were at this time last year.

A set for my merc including wheels is c£1500! That does include fitting/ delivery etc. Hell of a lot to shell out though, not convinced it'll make the RWD any better yet either.

You'd be surprised. My BMW was trasnformed from being completely undriveable to being one of the few cars that could get around when we had the proper snow last year.

I'm sure the dealer would have quoted me something similar to the £1,500 you mention, but I got a second set of smaller alloys from ebay (after selling the tyres that were on them, they cost around £100), and the winter tyres for those wheels are a fraction of the price of the "summer" run flats for the bigger alloys, so in the long run, using winter tyres for a few months a year will save money.

To answer the OP's question, you may want to get smaller rims anyway as it may work out cheaper both in the cost of the tyres, and the cost of swapping tyres on and off rims. When getting new rims, you need to check the offset (the "ET" number), and as others have said, make sure that they'll clear the brakes.

Then good luck to you when you have to drive up to a ski resort in the Alps after some heavy snow.

🙄

I didn't mean that the snowflake meant they could drive anywhere in any conditions. What I meant was that they were designed for use in snow and are as such snow tyres. They are not as good as chains, of course, but that was not my point.

Thanks for the tip but I am not in fact stupid.

I think they are still considered snow tyres if they have a snowflake and MS stamped on the side (mud and snow, not marks and spencers).

I think you're wrong. My MIL calls them snow tyres. It winds my BIL up - he rallys and snow tyres are totally diffenent to winter.

There really has been a lot of BS on this thread. Winter tyres work great from Nov - Mar north of the border - rain, cold, ice, compacted snow. I dont care what happens in Essex. They save me money (ie dont wear over a winter), they mean I and my misses get everywhere (apart from the Essex types blocking the road), and it costs me £30 each spring and autumn to swap 4x tyres back to normal kwik fit summer.

PS I went on a rant last year about this, really - folk are just lazy and ignorant. Do your thing. Some plonker in a renault will do a 360 in front of you and kill a tree. Whether you can drive around him is up to you. You most probably dont need full size tyres. Your owners manual or your dealer will tell you. I know all our cars have different rec winter tyres. My van is the same as summer.

On the size front I have to confess to being lazy as my garage has a program that tells them exactly what size winter tyres I need for my van.

Sorry Molgrips I wasn't trying to be condescending but you shouldn't believe everything it says on the tin.

M+S markings simply refer to the style of tread pattern, and it is up to the manufacturer if they mark the tyre M+S. Usually it is just applied to more knobbly tyre patterns.

Winter tyres with the snowflake and three peak symbol are made a more silica rich compound and have to demonstrate a minimum of 110% of the traction on snow of a reference tyre.

My advice to the OP would be to source a cheap set of steel wheels that will fit your car. I pick up mine from a scrappy for £10 each. Make sure you get the correct fitting and a suitable size. Check with the manufacturer for the correct specs.

You also do not need to buy the same speed rating. No-one in their right mind is going to exceed 150mph (v-rating) in winter conditions.

185/65/15 tyres for my car come in at around £50. I can't speak highly enough of Vredestein Snowtrac 3s.

EDIT: I would go for 215/55/16 tyres on Mondeo steel rims. From £60 each delivered on www.oponeo.co.uk

For rims, check scrappy or Ebay/Gumtree.

Not read all the replies but:

1. check your handbook for recommended winter tyre sizes. They are often a smaller wheel wheel size, higher profile tyre which is cheaper and works better in the winter and less likely to get rim damage from hitting hidden stuff in the snow. If it's not there check with Ford themselves. Using a winter tyre size that is not the manufacturer recommended one could land you in trouble with your insurance. If you stick the recommended one you are protecting yourself.

2. Definitely get some cheap wheels - I use alloys as I had some spare. Steelies are obviously cheaper and can be lighter and if you prang them they can be bent back. False economy getting tyres changed over onto your normal wheels - which are normally the wrong size as mentioned in (1) anyway.

3. Winter tyres will have at least 8mm tread and yes be a softer compound (latest ones have high silica compounds which keeps them soft in the cold and helps economy). They will have things called sipes which are basically little slits in the tread. These work in a couple of ways - one way is they suck up water from the road surface as the tread is deformed and then jet it out when the tread returns to shape. They also help keep the tread block more mobile (less stiff). It is the flexibility from sipes and soft tread which makes winter tyres feel horrible in summer. Below 5mm they are getting too worn and 4mm is pretty useless for snow so beware of all the people selling used winter tyres from Europe with 4mm of tread. They will still work better than your summer tyres when it gets cold and damp etc which we typically get but do not expect them to work amazingly in snow so if you must go for some then don't pay much for them. In Europe when they get to 4/5mm they must be removed or just kept on and worn down in spring/summer.

4. Don't worry too much about absolute snow performance. In the UK slush, rain and dry (but cold) performance are more useful than deep snow performance of the really aggressive tread Nordic snow tyres. I use Nokian WRG2 as they are brilliant in slush, rain and dry and will still let me drive around in the UK snow without any problems.

I spotted mention of posting tyres - the normal cheap couriers arranged through the likes of Parcel Monkey will ship tyres for under £10. Just wrap them in pairs in cling film. Paisley Freight are the best I found for tyres and wheels together as they are heavy.

Sorry Molgrips I wasn't trying to be condescending but you shouldn't believe everything it says on the tin.

No worries. I didn't imagine that the symbols conferred a certain level of performance - just that they had been designed with snow in mind, that's all.

You also do not need to buy the same speed rating. No-one in their right mind is going to exceed 150mph (v-rating) in winter conditions.

No, but you might drive fast when conditions are dry but you still have them on the car. My WR G2s are V rated purely because that's what was available and cheap at the time, and they did travel at 120mph in Germany. Rumbled a bit more than the summers, but that was about the only difference.

However unless there's a chance you might end up in Germany then V rated tyres are a bit pointless anyway - aren't they?

Mike_D - Member

That was all going so well until the "in Edinburgh" bit

https://www.paisleyfreight.com/

£25 to shop 4 tyres (I just got 4* nokian W2GRs from a pal in edinburgh via these guys)

(just spotted another mention for them)

By way of an update...

Thanks for all the input, I decided that the other half's car was the one to "winterise" - 4 kumhos for 408 fitted (whenever I want rather than straight away) and 10 quid per corner to swap them back next year.

Not unhappy with that. 225/45/17

if you wanted to find out how much for a courier.....very likely prohibitive, but you never know

1/2 pallet should cost around £40.

You also do not need to buy the same speed rating. No-one in their right mind is going to exceed 150mph (v-rating) in winter conditions.

be careful here. iirc you have to fit at least the same speed rating as the manufacturer did originally. match or exceed the manufacturers spec. would be the legal/insurance jargon for it. you might find that the insurance company won't pay out if you fit a sub spec tyre.

also the legal requirement is to fit a tyre which exceeds the car - not the driver. otherwise we could fit N rated tyres and never break the speed limit.

🙂

"Are there many of us that actually need winter tyres in the UK? I cannot see the point."

Yes and no, depends on your car. I commute daily from Bradford to Sheffield and didnt miss one day last year because of the snow (apart form when the building shut for a day)

My Mondeo is great in the snow on normal tyres and even an MX5 appeared to be better than most cars, but my wifes Polo used to be shocking.

To the OP - [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/winter-tyres-car-content#post-2987331 ]This thread was a couple of weeks ago[/url]

I fitted the cheapest I could find and was/am very happy as per above post. They will be going on again shortly as I picked a spare set of tyres/wheels for summer use and it's now a straight swap. I got the same size as those previously on the car (which are slightly wider than standard anyway) but as said ^^ check manufacturers recommendations as some will recommend slightly narrower. If I did it again, I would go narrower but there were very few options in my size and they were very expensive.

There was somewhere on the web selling winter tyres as a package, 4 tyres, steel wheels, fitted for not a huge amount of money.

Don't suppose anyone has the link do they?

my tyres I think give you the option of buying winter wheels/tyre package.

Here you go....

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/Steel_wheels.html

It should be noted that there several types of winter tyres available:
- studded winter tyres, forbidden in most countries outside Scandinavia. Noisy, expensive and accelerate road wear.
- "Euro-winter tyres",these are tyres which should work well both in autobahn and snow. These probably make most sense in UK.
- "Scandinavian winter tyres", made of softer compounds than former, work well in colder temps but are not as good in high speeds and temperatures.
- M+S tyres for SUVs and trucks. They fit the requirements for law in most places but are no match for real winter tyres.

Winter tyres loose most of the grip in 2-3 winters whether they are studded or not. Here in Finland the choice of tyre is subject to many great debate each year, whether studs are needed and which brand works best etc.

I know they are not the same but snowsocks got me out of trouble last year

my van has crappy low profile tyres on that are absolutely crap in snow