[Closed] Winter Tyres

If you get All Seasons tyres you might find the decision easier

Cheap steelies and winter tyres here. I do drive to the alps for skiing though so decision was not that difficult.

Depending on yearly mileage and time of day you generally use the car and where you live, you might just want to leave them on all year.

I'm in Munich and here you must have winter tyres from October through till spring.

Thinking about doing that with the van. Saves the faff of storing and swapping the wheels twice a year....

Don't really notice a massive difference regarding mpg.

They're also better if light off roading.

I asked the same question a few months ago and the answer turned out to be Michelin CrossClimates

Cheap steelies and winter tyres here. I do drive to the alps for skiing though so decision was not that difficult.

Just got back. One of the reasons I was considering it.

Definitely worth it and not just for snow - they grip much better in winter cold and salty slimy roads. You can effortlessly drive out of muddy MTB event fields too as a bonus 🙂 I'm also convinced they wear better across the winter months than 'summer' tyres do.

Anyway, now is a good time to be looking - people will be taking them off and prices will be suppressed over the summer months.

I'd recommend getting a set of steel/cheap alloys with tyres and just swap out the wheels each winter. I'd also recommend getting little-used second hand wheel/tyre combo eg. from ebay with minimal tread wear - i.e. 6mm or so remaining. This will likely get you a very cheap set of both wheels and tyres that will do a couple of winters or more. Then just replace the tyres as and when.

Is it really worth it? What do people do? Cheap set of rims and swap the wheels? Just get the tyre fitters to swap the tyres and store at home or at the tyre fitter that offers storage? I have a garage so storage of rims or tyres isn’t too much of an issue.

First season for winter tyres for me and although we've not really had the snow, when we did have some they were superb. Very impressed with low temperature grip. I got mine from a local tyre fitters who did a good price and I'm storing my summer tyres at home.

I've had CrossClimates on for 14 months now. I was much better off than most of the cars in our road in the snow/ice a couple of weeks ago, based on watching them sliding around.

I put some Michelin Cross Climates on my car

You can all thank me for the current heatwave!

I’ll share some of that blame. Decided to experiment with Maxxis All Seasons, soz

I just run them all year. If you're not ragging it in sumner then there's not much downside.

Nokians - i stupidly did not put them on this year and the one day i was out in the snow and listened to the missus about closing a gap up i slid into someone :/ that said, my Goodyears have been excellent in the winter.

Worth a watch.

I made the mistake of thinking 4x4 and M+S (mud + snow) tyres would be OK during winter. "Big chunky grip, perfect for the snow in Aberdeenshire". Unfortunately, the lack of sipes in the tread, and a rubber compound too hard for the cold, resulted in Mrs notlocal fracturing 3 thoracic vertebrae, and a fractured sternum, bruised heart and lung and 3 severed tendons in my right wrist. It also manifested 7 years later with a healthy dose of PTSD, with me vanishing for 3 days, and contemplating a long walk into a December swell at Aberdeen beach.
Just get them bought and reduce the risk.
Crash

All season unless you're into 'making progress'. I have Vredestein Comtrac 2 All Season tyres (Three Peak Mountain Snow Flake badge / 3PMSF - not M+S) on my 114 bhp van and would have something similar on a car if I had one.

Read up on M+S vs 3PMSF here - https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/winter-tyres-don-t-rely-on-the-m-s-mark

notlocal

Crash

Christ, what actually happened in the crash?

I've got Michelin CC on my car and they're good, but I do try and remember to drive as if I didn't have them, so I've always got a little bit in reserve. Easy to get cocky...

I put Cross Climates on the van just before the snow fell, chuffing brilliant. Slightly better that the Comtracs that I'd put on before.

Christ, what actually happened in the crash?

Ice, a 40 foot huck to flat and a tree.

 

I was thinking about get some winter wheels/tyres. Front wheel drive car, can you just do the front wheels or is that a bad idea?

Depends how sideways you like it? 😉

Apart from too, how fast were you going?

I started getting my tyres from the local Indy tyre place, who's been there years and his advice was that clearly winter for winter (not just snow and ice, also better in cold and damp) and summer for summer is the best option.

However, and more relevant I suspect for most of us - was that he said if you had to compromise then the drop off in performance of using winter tyres in summer was WAY less than using summer tyres in winter, and unless you're massively into 'making progress' likely to be barely noticeable for most of us.

So - if it's either/or - winters or good all seasons all year round.

And no - don't put winters on the front and summer on the rear, unless you're a driving god or like crashing into stuff backwards - same reason as why 'expert' advice is that you put the best tyres on the rear because a front wheel skid is more retrievable for most of us; a rear wheel one is usually a trip to the hedge or worse.

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/celebrate-the-arrival-of-the-annual-winter-tyre-debate-thread/page/2/

All season tyres have somewhat killed off the debate of how long to run winter tyres for and when you need to change wheels etc

I have all season tyres on the my rear only (plus it's a rear wheel drive car). Will replace the fronts when I wear those tyres down enough

I nearly went allseason and I think it's probably the best allround option. But then I found some used wheels with good quality winters on for my car (literally from another identical car) and so I bought those instead.

I know not everyone likes used tyres- though nobody minds buying cars with used tyres, which seems weird- but really for winters it can work out great, especially if you have the sort of car that people buy winters for. Frinstance, I have a subaru, nuff said. I had a mondeo, which could take the same wheels as some volvos and jags and loads of those guys buy winters. And then they often do not many miles, so it can work out great.

TL:DR, if I had to buy new tyres I'd probably go all season. But I didn't so I bought sensible allrounders and a cheap used set of alloys with good winters on.

doomanic

Member
Apart from too, how fast were you going

Driving according to the conditions between 45/50mph. Dry road, with 7°c indicated, at 07:30. First detected ice approximately 500m before crash site. Auto box, so eased off the acceleration gently to allow engine breaking, then spent the rest of the journey correcting the steering as the vehicle picked up speed travelling up an incline. Changed to N on column shift and continued to pick up speed. At the last moment it appeared we would just slide into an estate cottage driveway until the road camber decided the drop was closer.

Despite skid pan training (paramedic) there was nothing I could do.

I'm under no illusion that winter tyres are a miracle cure for all conditions in winter, but I do believe that they would have gripped more and perhaps lessened the rate of our abrupt deceleration into a tree. I played it over enough during the subsequent years to appreciate proper three peak and snowflake tyres do what they've been made for better than non TPSF tyres.

I've just had first set of tyres on the Volvo. I wanted all season, and had the sum total of two models to choose from. Tyre place said they've never sold so many all season and winter tyres after last year.

For me, traveling all over Scotland for work, all season just seems to make sense, and the ones of got are more towards the winter end with sipes and different rubber. (Maxxis AP2)

Most people in denmark run winter tyres and it's positively balmy and dry here compared to Scotland.

Been running winters all year round for the last 10 years and have no complaints. My mileage is relatively low and I live in Scotland so wear is good - easily exceeding 25k down to 4mm. As I go to the Alps every year I change when they get to 5mm ish (not legally a winter tyre below that) and the performance drops off markedly. The next set may well be something like the Nokian Weatherproof all season which have excellent reviews in snow conditions.

I have done the front wheels only thing and span on a roundabout in an inch or two of snow, complete surprise as I was going very slowly. After that I felt very uncomfortable in snow, especially going downhill in difficult conditions, and put two winters on the back. So I wouldn't recommend the front only option.

If you think you will use chains at some point, check the winter tyre size permitted in the car manual. I had to downsize the tyre to allow clearance to the strut for the chain.

If you go for second hand tyres it's worth remembering that snow performance drops right off as the tread shallows - you often see people asking good money for tyres that are barely winter tyres any more. Still better than summers though arguably poor value

Mr Winter Tyres seemed like a good one stop shop a while back but I have always used my local indy who have good deals.

Warmest February day on record? It was still 6 Deg C on my way to work this morning, and that was an hour later than usual.

When my winters drop below 4mm, I'll run them down to less in the summer, but always 4mm+ tread in winter.

@notlocal that sounds terrible, I'm glad you survived and wish you the best with the healing process.

I tried used winter tyres on my 325D a couple of years ago and didn't get on with them at all. They had 5mm of tread when I fitted them but never seemed to have as much grip as the Goodyear Efficientgrips that were on the car before. I don't recall the exact brand, but they were premium.

If you go for second hand tyres it’s worth remembering that snow performance drops right off as the tread shallows – you often see people asking good money for tyres that are barely winter tyres any more. Still better than summers though arguably poor value

It's not just tread depth. The age of the tyre plays a role, too.

According to ze German ADAC (AA/RAC equivalent) tyres are ready for the bin after 7 years.

The manufacturing date can be found on all tyre walls.

That's my problem with swapping tyres twice a year on the van. Don't do enough miles to wear down the tread. Last set of winters still had 6mm on them, and even they were second hand.

The current winters are also second hand. 150€ for four 2 year old Dunlops with ~6.5mm.

The summer tyres were new and cost over 600.... Some fancy pants van eco things from Pirelli.

Whereas I don't mind swapping the tyres over on the MX5.... The performance of the summers over the winters is massively noticeable. Saying that, they are almost 50% wider and 17" as opposed to skinny 15" rubbers.

I’ve got CrossClimates on the front of mine. I know I should get them all round, but rear summer tyres still have plenty of life. Will get rears at some point soon. I was seriously impressed driving over the Ben lawyers road to Glen Lyon in the cold snap at the end of January. -8 or so and a mix of snow and ice on a pretty steep road. Made it over and back no problem. Had to drive around a car without winter tyres stuck on first hill. Took it very easy especially with summers on rear, but no problems at all.

Used to run conti winter contacts on wife’s car all year round, with no appreciable loss of economy or grip. Seem to remember the conti website said that winters all year round were recommended for northern UK/Scotland at the time, and grip as well or better on all but the warmest days.

Will run crossclimates or similar all year from now on.

Warmest February day on record? It was still 6 Deg C on my way to work this morning, and that was an hour later than usual.

-1.5-2.0 degrees this morning, and after scraping off several car windscreens I could only feel pain in my fingers; this afternoon I wished I had my shorts on, I was hot wearing a tee shirt with my work trousers. Who’d a thunk it in February!

I feel a little bit "jipped" that I've put cross climates on my commuter in November and have probably only needed their capabilities on a couple of occasions ..
Summer has arrived in February ..I've been working in shirt sleeves outdoors for the last three days ..
Hang on thoug8h ..didn't that Beast arrive in March last year ..?
Maybe putting Eagle F1's on the other car 2 days ago wasn't such a good idea after all ..

I put cross climates on my A6 Quattro almost 18 months ago and they have been faultless over around 20k miles, mixed conditions in west of Scotland. A fair amount of snow and ice last winter, less this one. They are now down to about 3.5mm all round so will be getting replaced with same in a couple of months. So much better than the factory Pirelli summer tyres it came with.

I'm after some as well, managed to get some free alloys so just need the tyres...but I'm tight. Looking around, there are some unknowns with a C and C rating for fuel economy and wet braking for 50 quid...the known brands appear to want about twice that for those ratings in the size I require.
So are the 50 quid jobs going to be utterly awful or they likely be OK?

No idea, but I wouldn't put any tyre worse than a B for wet grip on my car in any circumstances.

I’ve got CrossClimates on the front of mine. I know I should get them all round, but rear summer tyres still have plenty of life.

That's mental - two types of tyres with very different characteristics...

I live in Bristol and have used CrossClimates for the last few years, only had one day with snowy roads here so far this year and they coped fine (inc. on untreated roads). OP mentions he's in Southern England so I'd say there's little point there having a dedicated winter wheels + tyres set.

Partly depends on the car to, my current FWD Octavia copes a lot better than my previous RWD BMW, if I had a job that involved a lot of driving and a RWD car with wide/low profile standard wheels I might consider a dedicated winter set.

I bought a set of wheels off ebay with Avon Ice touring tyres fitted (and ~6.5mm of tread) for £40. After doing a fair bit of research my conclusion was that most branded tyres were within a few % of each other, and anything from an unknown was rubbish. There were a few common ones fitted by kwikfit, ats etc that consistently came bottom in tests, often little or no better than good summer tyres.

I'm filming in the north west Dec-April so figured it was worth investing in winter tyres as a days lost work would be a lot more than tyres!

In the recent snow I was diving up the M40 at normal poor weather motorway speeds with snow heavy enough that it was settling despite the traffic. Saw 5 cars spin off, didn't stop to see what tyres they were using!

Driving round manchester in the snow at 5am they were mostly fine. It's still possible to do a handbrake 180 turn if you're that way inclined!

Driving at 9 once the traffic had compacted the snow into ice there's still little or no grip. Still had a few sideways moments but didn't slide off the road completely.

The one time I thought "ohh this is good" was sliding down a slight hill at ~10mph on sheet ice with absolutely no grip or chance of stopping and the ABS chattering away about to go straight through a crossroads I intended to turn left at. Turned the wheel more in hope than expectation and it just went round the corner!

Would I buy them again? For £40, yes. For £400 plus a set of steel wheels, probably not as it'd be more than the car's worth! They probably work best on 'icy' roads and snow, on actual ice you still just slide (just maybe not quite as far?).

The other problem is their grip on ice/snow diminishes once the sipes wear away at ~4mm. So either you have to wear out a set from 4mm to 2mm over the course of a summer, or commit to buying new tyres in the autumn if they're less than that. I suppose the ideal would be two sets of wheels, both with winter tyres, one 'good' set for the winter, one worn set for the summer. Same problem with crossclimates, you've still got to replace them at 4mm otherwise what's the point?

Decided to experiment with Maxxis All Seasons, soz

Don't know if you'll see this a day later mashr, but did you notice any appreciable difference in fuel economy after putting on the Maxxis'is? I did (3, maybe 4 indicated MPG) but not sure if it's the rubber or a decent drop in temperature at about the same time.

Living in Surrey, never bothered with them. With my Civic, been able to drive on the rare occasions of snow just fine and never once had a noticeable issue with grip when it drops below 5C or whatever. Even last month or whenever it was when it got snowy and icy, and loads of people were sliding past the office on the ice and I had no issues. A lot of it is down to how people drive in icy conditions though.

Tthew: I put on cross climates and my mpg dropped about 3 mpg. Then again cold spell at the exact time so who knows. I can feel there is more resistance as the auto gear box runs longer in 2nd and third gear .

Posted a few days ago and ironically sliced a rear tyre today on some road debris. All 4 tyres were getting low, 3.5mm, so a full replacement set of CrossClimates on order for fitting on Monday. They cost a bit more than summer tyres, but add a nice bit of surefootedness to a weighty estate. Now, where’s that £620 that I had spare 🤔

I also fitted Michelin Criss Climates. In my case, on an Amarok pickup that spends a lot of time on road. They’ve been very good, not quite as good in snow and ice as the dedicated winters I had on the Touareg that it replaced, but work better in the wet and dry than those so better thar vast majority of the time. I’ll be fitting a set to my wife’s car as soon as hers wear out.
Oh, and I drove the Amarok through 2 ft of snow and up an Alp that not many other cars were managing without chains, I know it’s designed for that sort of thing but I’d consider little or no chance with summers. They also work fine in the (ok limited) mud I’ve put the truck through, even with a ton of stone in the back.

I've had them for a few years since driving to the Alps for holidays.

I bought a set of refurbished wheels and nearly new branded tyres for my BMW last year for £400. The wheels are the same as my normal ones and tyres are over £100 each. Keep an eye on eBay for bargains, especially this time of year.

We bought a set for the Polo too, brand new from Audi (for an A1 but same fitment) for £500, which again is barely more than the cost of the tyres.

In the long run it doesn't cost anything extra like this, as each set is only on half the time.

But this year I needn't have bothered, think it was 18°C the other day in Scotland.

Last year was another story though, my car was unstoppable.

So when to take them off is my quandry now. Forecast for coming week ranges between 1-13c

They’re meant to be optimum for below 7c so I think I’ll leave it for another week or two to have the grip for early commutes.

Way I see it is that even when it gets marginal, I stick with the winters, I don't change until it's absolutely not winter tyre time. Reason being, even if the winters are only the right tyre for 20% of the time and the other 80% I'd rather have my other tyres on, that 20% is going to be the crappiest, nastiest 20%. And the winters will still be totally competent the other 80%. So basically you're trading performance when you're less likely to need it, for performance when it'll make the most difference. What are the odds you'll be in some situation thinking, shit, I wish I had the summer tyres on?

Depends on the tyres too to be fair, my old icebears weren't great when it got warmer and drier and the crossover point probably came earlier, my snowproxes didn't have that issue so badly. And depends on whether you have "summers" or all seasons, or sensible allrounders too

Still plenty of time for winter to come back and wreck us

I understand that there is a relatively small drop off in performance in the warmer conditions, certainly far less than a summer drops off in cold conditions. Personally I'd leave on until April time, but I'm on all seasons so won't change until they have worn out!

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm

I understand that there is a relatively small drop off in performance in the warmer conditions, certainly far less than a summer drops off in cold conditions.

Once it warms up a bit winter tyre performance in the wet is generally pretty poor. They'll have been (potentially) a bit of a liability for the past couple of weeks at least though I can't say I've noticed, I've only driven a couple of hundred miles if that.
Still time for a cold snap though!