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hora - these threads have always descended into ego fuelled debates about one's driving ability being able to negate the 'need' for winter tyres. That type of sanctimony isn't being aired today...yet.
I wouldn't drive anywhere near legal speeds in winter. I'll stop any winter tyre test pilots now:
NCAP tests are carried out at sane speeds in laboratory conditions. Airbags only fire once and quickly collapse. The day NCAP runs a test where you are hit partially sideways by another car at a combine speed of 80, lampost, etc etc - then it might calm people down.
garage ? pishy steel wheels just live out in the garden next to the fence shod in winter rubber.
Following this with interest. Wife has a Q5 and we live on a gnarly narrow steep road which gets quite exciting in winter we are told. Her Q5 has massive wheels but might get some 18s with proper winter tyres so she can get in and out.
Do you need an old MG?
Yup, but even that's been relegated to my parents garrage as I've not got room 🙁
The main thing about winter tyres in summer is that yes, they perform less well than a summer tyre in the hot and dry. But that's the time when you least need that performance- so it becomes about trading some performance in ideal conditions, against performance in less than ideal conditions. That doesn't seem like a hard decision.
I see your point but, the difference between the top and bottom of the wet weather braking ratings is 30%, and the tyres are tested under the conditions they're designed for (summer tyres in warm weather, winters in colder), and any manufaturer is going to try to test them under conditions that make them look good.
So on a wet summers day the winter tyre rated F or G for wet braking in winter, is going to be even worse than the 30% decreace in perfomance suggested Vs the A rated summer tyre.
That was my point, I doubt anyone would think that, but if you're going to suggest winter tyres are essential for safety when it's cold, then that points also valid in reverse. The counter being that the summer tyres sufferes a greater performance drop in winter than the winter tyre does in summer. But I'm unlikley to bother going out if the weathers that bad so there's a 0% chance of me crashing in those conditions anyway (Vs the 30%+ drop in performance and increace in crashing you may suffer in summer).Wait, you'd not drive on a hot day on winter tyres? That's... hmm.
The difference is my argument has numbers, yours has anecdotes about not crashing (I've not crashed either though).
I agree on them probably being better in winter, I disaree with them being left on in the summer.
Thinking about it- I fitted Conti winters last year. Left them on until circa June as they were old and blistering. I had no problems with grip at all. These were conti contacts not winglang/landsale/Semprit etc 'winters' though.
We have winters on the Yaris all the time. I don't see the point in changing them for the brief period each year that the weather might be "too hot".
without winter tires i would be able to sit at home most of winter - id get down to the bridge then block the road for anyone else wanting to get up the hill to the actual road - and i dont have a truck to tow stuck cars(like my neighbours range rover) out the way this year - hopefully he still has the general grabber steelies he bought last year after my frontera pulled him to the road.
Even my neighbours yaris with snow socks pissed on his rangey on rubber band summer tires.
but then i live somewhere we get proper winter - not surrey.
thisisnotaspoon - MemberThe difference is my argument has numbers, yours has anecdotes about not crashing (I've not crashed either though).
Here's some numbers, and some expert advice.
The trouble is, numbers don't really tell the full story I think. Planned hard stops miss the big difference in control you get with winter tyres- it's not about adding or subtracting X metres, it's about whether you stop in control at all. So you could end up comparing "stopping distance 35 metres" with "stopping distance- backwards through in a hedge" Whereas winter tyres in summer aren't going to do that. The worst case scenarios differ more than the best case scenarios.
And still, back to the basic fact that you're less likely to need it in the dry- everyone's got more grip and control, better visibility, etc.
I agree on them probably being better in winter
Only probably? It is obvious you have never tried them. It's true that they are not great in the summer but you would only notice if you were driving right on the limit. In the snow however, you immediately notice that you can actually drive at all!
The UK is quite backward compared to most of Europe and North America when it comes to winter driving. Winter tyres are considered the norm or even a legal requirement in many countries.
The UK is quite backward compared to most of Europe and North America when it comes to winter driving.
Yes- apparently here the winters are never bad enough and its never THAT cold. So next time a BBC news presenter says the time-trodden line 'don't make that journey unless you really have to'. Stop for a moment and think 'does that mean winter tyres are really needed here in the UK'?
Or should we penny-pinch, cut corners and save the money for that new Reverb dropper and 2015 Banshee Spitfire?
The UK is quite backward compared to most of Europe and North America when it comes to winter driving.
It always amuses me how people whine and whine about how crap Britain is cos it can't cope when it snows - and then they turn round and talk about how unnecessary winter tyres are!
Why exactly do you think (some) other countries do better in the snow?
To be fair, that's just the cost/benefit the UK's decided on, the disruption from snow's cheaper than the cost of snowproofing our infrastructure. Just people tend to forget it's a choice we've made, when it comes back and bites.
To be fair, that's just the cost/benefit the UK's decided on, the disruption from snow's cheaper than the cost of snowproofing our infrastructure.
And that's the same decision people make with their winter tyres. Most of our issues are people getting their cars stuck, if everyone had winters on 90% of the problem would disappear.
It's also the same decision other countries make. Every country spends enough to keep disruption down to a few days a year. The level of snow and the level of spending vary of course, but everywhere has a few days where the weather's bad and people hvae to stay home.
or go sledging! 🙂
And that's the same decision people make with their winter tyres. Most of our issues are people getting their cars stuck, if everyone had winters on 90% of the problem would disappear.
That's a bit optimistic! You'll still have the problem of people not clearing their windscreens,venturing out with a square foot of porthole to steer by.
I've had 2 winter tyres on the Dispatch for the last 4 or 5 years. Swap them over every November.
The arse end hasn't caught me up, yet.
There, I've said it now, I'll drive like a dick and physics'll do me.
anyone got any views on which is preferable?
1) spare set of 16" steel rims and 16" 55 tyres and I swap them over at home or...
2) get a garage to swap 17" summers for 17" 45 winters on OEM rims at £40 a go?
The taller tyres obviously softer ride/more pothole protection & cheaper but ugly as sin.
Taller section and slightly narrower is the way to go.
was thinking something like that.
anyone had any experience of:
http://www.mrwinterwheels.co.uk/16-vw-passat-3c-facelift-steel-winter-wheels-tyres.html
you got a passat now stoner ? or you wanting to put them on the van .....
be careful how you tread putting car wheels on a van.
no, new car.
Moved the freelander on to a friend from the pub who needs something to tow horsebox locally.
Since I have the 'fender up and running we dont need a second 4x4(ish) and Mrs S is doing 25k a year commute so a mate of a mate sold us a 100,000 2011 Passat for £7k that does 60+mpg. But it could do with some winter plimsoles to get out to the main roads in the worst weather and more generally improve performance over the skinny boots in winter.
is your fender not done yet then t_r? 😉
Stoner, some sizes of tyre are way cheaper than others. If I'd bought wheels and tyres for the Prius at the same time I could have got 185/65 instead of 195/55 and saved a packet*, because the other is the more common size. And the Prius' speedo can be recalibrated via the satnav if you change wheel sizes, which is cool.
* iirc, the numbers might be different.
I found steel wheels for my Passat online for £130/set but I cannot remember the site, will dig it out later. Perhaps they will have ramped up the price though.
EDIT tyreleader.co.uk but don't by the last four or I'll kill ya.
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stoner.
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/1987-ninety-work-progress-198511.html
im along way from rolling.
this weekend will consist of finishing bulkhead off so i can pull it off - tidy the welds and spray it. Pulling the engine and painting the whole chassis as many times as i can stomach so it all looks like the back !
1) spare set of 16" steel rims and 16" 55 tyres and I swap them over at home or...
2) get a garage to swap 17" summers for 17" 45 winters on OEM rims at £40 a go?
Option 1 would be the best solution for performance, but 17" winter tyres are pretty damn good too. We had 17" Conti WinterContacts on our Volvo V50 and it easily coped with everything that UK winter could throw at it. We live out in the sticks too where the gritters rarely go. Even 18" and 19" low profile winter tyres are excellent these days.
cheers grips, that's a handy site.
Blimey t_r, that's in a shocking state!
Ive just done the radius arm bushes etc on mine. Pretty certain there shouldnt have been daylight going past the inner sleeve 😳
Mine's in the hands of a pro today for some love on the swivels etc. Bit beyond me and my workshop tools.
she is stoner - but not as bad as i expected.
but it took me a while to work up the guts to even look at the damage to get started.
its coming along good when i get a couple of days at it im getting through it but it wont be back on the road for this winter, im daring to be 4x4less for this year - first year for a while. - already missed it this morning - had to take a different route due to flooding.
In the snow however, you immediately notice that you can actually drive at all!
Well, that's not true, the times I have been caught out at my parents house (which involves a steep hill, with sharp corners) with almost a ft of snow I've driven in/out.
And we're getting into a different argument, winter tyres with different rubber compounds and slightly more agressive tread to work in lower temperatures, Vs snow tyres designed to actualy work in snow which is a bit extream for our temperate climate.
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winter tires got up that.
good nokian near new summer tires didnt even get to the slope.
snow socks also got up it.
my landy had to drive up the ditch to get traction on its All terrains.
Trail_rat, how was the journey down though?
Can I just say one word.........TYRES...............NOT TIRES. Sorry that's three words. Sorry there's some more.
Well, that's not true, the times I have been caught out at my parents house (which involves a steep hill, with sharp corners) with almost a ft of snow I've driven in/out.And we're getting into a different argument, winter tyres with different rubber compounds and slightly more agressive tread to work in lower temperatures, Vs snow tyres designed to actualy work in snow which is a bit extream for our temperate climate.
Seems to me we are approaching the "I can drive anything you can drive with my normal tyres" argument. Maybe the snow where you live is more grippy?
The fact is that Winter tyres are miles better in snow than normal tyres (and no I'm not talking about studded tyres) just ordinary Winter tyres with the snowflake symbol. The difference in traction and grip is massive and anyone who actually tries them would tend to agree. Makes winter driving so much easier and safer, but each to their own.
The coalmans vauxhall brava did pirouette down there.
"winter tires got up that."
Years ago pook sent me along the road from ladybower inn to langsett in the snow in my first Foz/winter tyres down dips/up climbs like that.
I pwned that mutha ****er 🙂
Anyone on summer tyres would have tasted dry stone wall.