Winners never quit and Quitters never win

Teaching myself to code took three attempts and a few years.

Learning to dance West Coast Swing was very frustrating.

I am still to go off the drop at the top of Super Swooper, or ride the rock garden on Ace of Spades in St Foy, despite having been to the top of both many, many times. But I will.

Oh yeah, forgot the most obvious one, took me about 30-50 attempts before I successfully stopped smoking.

You've been very cryptic about what you're up to.

You won't get it done by giving up.

You will struggle to get it done if you don't know when to put it down and leave it alone for a while.  I am not good at giving up on some stuff once I've decided it needs doing.  I'm sure it's cost me many an unnecessary hour of frustration when if I'd left it until next weekend / forgot about it for a few days a rejuvenation of mental and physical enthusiasm for the problem might have been game changing.  I've nearly launched wheels into orbit over tubeless issues and gone back a week later and up it pops. 🤬

I did a cambelt on my BILs Ford Escort many years ago.  It was an utter **** of a job.  We lacked as much experience as would have been beneficial to do it well but we were determined and he was skint.  It took us two days to do that and the radiator (including trips out to buy bits and tools). It was freezing cold and drizzling.  We had to have it running by the end of day 2. We made it. My wife reckoned we should have paid for it to save my time but actually when it was done it felt great.

Tldr: I'm sure you will get there but a break may be beneficial if timetable for whatever it is fits.

When I find myself in that sort of situation, I find it useful to take a step back and spend a few days doing something else but turning the problem over in my mind. Sometimes you perserve and sometimes you try something completely different.

I'm trying to teach myself 3d design and printing via YouTube.  keep making stupid rookie mistakes when using others designs, but it's all teaching me things to check for before I hit the print button....

that said there is something to be said for knowing your limits, and if it's not something you want to do, or will do again getting someone who knows what they are doing is the right call.  no shame in realising its more efficient / cheaper to outsource

"Please tell me of things that you have struggled with repeatedly to design/build/prototype or just do ..."

Life

"...that finally ended in triumph"

Hmmm ... we'll see

I spent soooo long on a skateboard trying to do certain stuff. My personal goals were:

To get clear of the top lip of a half-pipe, so the whole of me and the board were out
To olly onto concrete seating area (about 60cm high)
To do 10 360s (so a 3600º) without falling over

I succeeded in all of them - eventually. It took so much time and effort and so many injuries, but I finally got there.
Skateboarding was never quite so much fun after that. I'd achieved what I wanted to do and something was not quite the same afterwards.

I 've found this with a lot of stuff. I have an idea when I start of where I want to be, and once I get to a point where I realise I can do it I kind of lose interest. When I got to Karate brown belt I knew that with enough time and effort I could get black, and I lost my enthusiasm. When I started SCUBA diving I wanted to get to Staff Instructor level - again, when I got to a place where I knew that if I paid for the course I could do it I didn't bother.

I think what I'm trying to say here is that achieving something is when it dies a little, that it's the doing it, the learning, the creating, that is fun and worthwhile.
Enjoy the process WCA. The journey is what counts, not the destination.

Thanks guys. I did put it down and walk away in the end this evening. Just watched some crap on youtube and will look again inthe morning. It is nothing special I am doing, just a project I thought would be fun but I have hit a difficult bit on the stuff I thought should be quite easy. Deep breaths, deep sleep and see what the weekend brings.

Easily - I am actually doing this for the pleasure of the process as much as the end result. It will end up as just a car but I will learn a lot on the journey. I will learn how to do this I am sure, eventually.

Not meaning to be cryptic. I am trying to make the plug from which I will take a mould, from which I will make a carbon fibre piece. The trouble is, there is no original part to copy and not original part to act as a plug. This means I need to make two perfectly matched pieces for each side of the final piece that are separated by the thickness of the panel I want to end up with. There are also no straight edges, simple curves or parallel sides and it will be an extremely visible and looked at part of the car I am designing/building so it has to be as near perfect as I can get it. Oh, and there are two or them but a left and right version which means everything on both bits I am making need an identical mirror piece as well. It would be so much easier with 3D modelling software and a milling machine but I have wood, foam, plastic and a carving knife. I guess it was my idea and no-one else really cares about it so I will go to bed and wake up heroically motivated and get the next one right!

Thanks again. STW always manages to cheer me up.

Yeah, sometimes, stepping a way from the 'the thing' for a while can do wonders for a clear head and new approach or whatever.

But yes very cryptic as to what you are doing!

To paraphrase the Dali Lama, sometimes inaction is the most powerfull form of action.

Rolling a kayak… I used to roll a wave ski no problem (self taught)… then I stopped surfing and moved to a landlocked country.  Long story short… came home eventually and bought a sea kayak.  Thought rolling would be easy, like riding a bike you never forget right?  But it’s not like riding a bike and I’d lost my roll and anyway my wave ski technique didn’t suit a sea kayak.  So… hours and hours of trying was needed to recover my roll and adapt it to a sea kayak.  I nearly gave up.  Twenty odd  years of sea kayaking later I’m so glad I didn’t give up.

If you aren't failing you aren't trying hard enough.

Try to remember that success is just doing something you can, failing is attempting something you can't. I know if I'd been brave enough to fail more in life I'd of achieved more

Rolling a kayak…

Yeah a pet hate of mine.
I think I have got past the barrier but my brain really hated the idea for several years and would just panic.
Had a few sessions with a paddle float where the person watching me took it off when i was setting up (variant on the knock to come up).
No probs coming back up.
Going back over knowing it was of == failure time.
On the plus side I have got quite handy at staying upright.

For OP its always best after failing to walk away for a bit in my opinion. Means you can subconsciously think through the problems. The main thing is being able to look at the attempts dispassionately later to try and decide why they failed.
A good rule from software development (which might have been nicked from elsewhere) is the last 20% of the work takes 80% of the effort.

Well I have woken up positive with a new idea that combines the approach of a couple of previous attempts. Hopeful the strengths of each individual approach will overcome the weakness of the other and result in success today. 

I think this should work as I know which aspect of each failed and I think combining them will over come those problems

Keep going WCA 👍

" I have wood, foam, plastic and a carving knife"

Do you have some clay?  You can take too much off, put it back again, for ever and ever.... 

I have stolen the kids plastercine which should help with the fine details but this thing is about 50cm x 50cm x 30cm which is a big lump of clay.  Even with the large hollowed out bits,  it uses a lot of material.

I will be using plastercine and wax and possibly body filler and a boat building filler to get the finished result.

A lot of what I am struggling with at the moment is getting something the right shape and proportions without a single straight reference line.  Getting something strong enough to sort the process of taking a fibre glass mould off it.  Getting something with no overhangs that would mechanically lock the mould onto the plug.  Making all of this look like I want it to look and then creating an exact,  but mirrored duplicate.

I will overcome that lot though. I am sure

There's always the winners who pull up, rest up and go again when they have recovered.  It's all about the long game.

Sunk cost fallacy - you aren't ploughing on with irrational decisions because of the time and effort already expended. That's a win.

Unlike HS2, which could be altered and become useful to the whole country

old fashioned way of mould making is clay.  make the model as a whole in clay.  then cut it in two to ensure perfect face.  drill out / dowel the bit you want connected.  then use latex to cast a mould, and pour resin in.  depending on the part you may be able to do it as a single mould rather than 2 part.  I've done this when casting intricate minatures, so a plug should be doable.

more modern way is using software and 3d printing.  which is what I'm trying to learn.

use of the plug and stuff like strength / heat resistance is important.  a lot of resin is quite brittle, even the abs stuff.  you may want some one with a filament printer to do it

there are also people happynto print stuff for you but you will have to model it first

Good luck.  if its small and you have a stl I could have a crack at printing you a prototype in ABS resin

I live by Bart's motto...

Unlike HS2, which could be altered and become useful to the whole country

An interesting fact about HS2 is that it was massively over-specced (which added massively to the cost) for, as far as I can see, no good reason apart from “national pride”.

This was under the coalition government BTW.

Can’t you just make a make mould and vacuum the carbon onto it?

Not that I know anything about this

Using long term public finance to enrich a few hundred people massively at the expense of taxation for the next 30 years or so.
Those people then spend their I'll gotten gains generating vat and GDP, and increasing the numbers of people benefit from hs2 by another few hundred.
It's the magic money go round

If you're making anything like that garden screen you have then quitting might be the best option 😁

From a scientific basis, it's finding the happy medium between

"First do it, and then do it properly / well" - ie: by trying stuff out, doing mock ups, etc., then you'll encounter issues and then when you come to do the real thing will have solved them already

and

"2 weeks in the lab can easily save an afternoon in the library" - ie: a bit of research or thinking first is rarely time wasted.

On skills things (like motor skill stuff such as playing an instrument or riding a trick on a skateboard) then there is a school of thought that says time away is vital to the learning process. As you learn the right finger movements on an instrument for example, the various synapses all firing in the right way and at the right time build a pathway. And then the brain lays down insulation (myelin, I think it's called) on those pathways that make the signals stronger. I can practise a chord progression and feel like I'm getting nowhere, but persevere for 20 goes. If I think I've got it after 15, I do 20 still. If I haven't got it at 20, I stop anyway. And then leave it.

Then you come back the next day and you've somehow got better at it without 'doing' anything. Except you have really, you've insulated the pathway that supports it.

This means I need to make two perfectly matched pieces for each side of the final piece that are separated by the thickness of the panel I want to end up with.

That's not the usual way to make a carbon laminate, unless you're making thousands. Make a mould for the outside face, polish it up and lay up the resin and fabric onto it. Finish the inside face with a coat of resin if necessary.

I've done a few basic things like kayak seats.

There must be lots of advice online about making a plug. Plywood profiles with strips of thin wood over them will get a good way towards a fair shape, then lightweight filler and sanding. If your shape is tightly curved you may need something other than wood to bend over the profiles. I did try using ordinary plaster as a base but if you've never done plastering that's tricky.

There's a balance between spending effort on the plug versus getting it nearly right and then tweaking the mould. Use polyester resin and chopped strand mat until you know the mould is right, only then spend the money vinylester or epoxy and carbon.

WCA, don't you need to talk to DT78 and have a think about 3D printing?

Okay, while I wait for the glue to set on the latest step, this is what I am trying to make BUT not quite the same shape, size dimensions so I can't simply buy one or even use one as a plug for the mould.

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/02KFpcb8/DS-Healight-Casing.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/02KFpcb8/DS-Healight-Casing.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I am making this as 2 pieces, the front cosmetic part shown in the top left 2 photos.
I will then make a 2nd pice for the back as shown in the bottom right 2 photos.

This is a part made (rejected) prototype so you get an idea of the approach.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/50kLg56J/Headlight-Proto.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/50kLg56J/Headlight-Proto.pn g"/> [/img][/url]

I am now working on a revised version using the wooden base with PU foam layers built up and shaped. Previous attempts with just foam failed as it cracked/snapped and generally wasn't strong enough to support its own structure, hence the addition or wood this time. I will then be cutting, sanding and shaping the foam and add any more wooden support where needed. The biggest challenge at the moment is the long part of the front casing ahead of the inner headlight which has a continuous curve that I must ensure gradually gets wider towards the front to allow the finished piece to release from the mould. If I simply replicated what is in the photos with the bottom and sides of the mould at 90 degrees to the back then it would be difficult/impossible to remove the carbon fibre piece from the mould once it had set rigid.

3D printing etc required detailed dimensions, 3D modelling software and the ability to define all of those complex intersecting curves within the headlight 'bowl'. Silicon moulds are unlikely to be rigid enough and would still require me to make the plug that I am struggling with.

I am using 2 pieces as I need a firm, flat and square surface to mount the headlight brackets to. I also need to be able to get to the front of this 'plate' to adjust the headlight height and beam direction. The front part I am making now will be removable but slide up against the structurale brackets with the headlights poking through the holes. I hope to use the back of this first mould to form the front of the mould for the brackets to ensure the two align once fixed.

You can follow my progress, as and when I make it, on this trilling series of YT vlogs : https://youtu.be/PlGSR6w2_hI

3d modelling stuff has a bit of a learning curve but it's not actually that bad.  though at the moment I'm just modifying others designs.  I would have thought what you are doing is a relatively straight forward application.  you'll want some one with a big filament printer to do it though  or cut the model in a way that it'll fit and then fix together.  I even think you can print carbon fibre, though not positive as I'm focusing on resin and minatures not the engineering side.  my father however has a bambu and makes various cylindrical things for his workshop, like router guides etc... which are relatively complex.  he uses onshape which I think is free.  if you look on sites like thingiverse someone may have even modelled it already or something close you could take as a base design and then modify

if you are determined to go the diy hands on route then do a whole bunch of prototypes at 10% scale.  it'll save you a bunch of time and materials.  

another benefit of the software route us scaling designs up and down is a piece of cake 

if you do go the route of modelling you will probably find you'll have other applications where it will be useful too.

look at bambu labs, seem very well regarded and as close to a consumer grade product as I'd available at the moment 

I know the theory and had a £D printer for a while so have made a few things. I even managed to make the end cap for a Range Rover roof rail cover that fitted and worked. I found it a lot easier to make stuff with straight edges or regular curves though.

The challenge with this is that I don't actually know what 'right' looks like so there is a fair bit of trial and error. The big step forward that I made was deciding to make it as 2 parts rather than as a single piece. This made the plug a whole heap easier to model as I could have material outside of the actual piece I was making as supports for things like the thin walls at the side of the lights.

Last nights prototype, witht he silver metal tape attached, was the first attempt at that. It isn't right, for all the reasons you will hear about in the next Vlog release, but it is basically the right principle I think. I have glued up the first couple of layers of PU foam ready for shaping so will hopefully have something closer to Okay by the end of today.

Thanks again to all of you for support and suggestions. I read and think about them all and then choose the bits that I can use.

DT78 - you can print CF with the right machine and filament but it doesn't give a pretty enough finish for a tart like me. Feel free to pop over if you want to view the chaos.

fair play many ways to solve the same problem.  if you aren't sure in the design I'd be making lots of quick samples protypes till I made my mind up.

quick search on thingiverse whilst watching the kids dig a hole...

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2666218

If you need something for the kids to show that your £D printer isn't just your toy, I did a selection of different bracelets that were popular. Fair quick to print and didn't use much filament - mind was a filament printer - but I am not sure how relevant that is for your set up.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:950070

That 'Porsche' headlight is all simple circles or straight lines. That is the easy bit 🙂

Ah, I see. I thought it was a body panel or something like that. I would start by making a mould for the recesses. Approximately a flat topped beehive shape; maybe start with a vase or a plant pot and build up. Can the basic shape be the same for both headlights? Then use chopped strand fibreglass to make two recesses. Set them up in the right orientation on a plywood backing. Then cut them to about the right profile on the front edge, but leave a cm projecting forward to trim later. Then fill in between them to make the front face (the silver bit you prototyped) with flat sections etc, and secure those with fibreglass tape and resin on the back. Then cut back the final cm of the recesses, tidy up the joint and use filler to get the final shape on the outside edge. That's your plug, polish it up and take a mould off it.

I didn't quit and I did win!

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/bNK0ZL1K/1st-Headlight-Plug.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/bNK0ZL1K/1st-Headlight-Plug.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

It obviously still needs a bit of sanding, a thin fibreglass skin, body filler skin and a sealing coat of primer before I can use it as a plug but...

...it is okay to use as the reference for the other side. It will also help me with the...

...oh, actually you have to watch the videos for that info

🙂

Thanks again for the motivation

2 weeks to work out how to make the first one and then a day and half to make the partner.

Winner!

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/tCPmV692/pair-of-headlights.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/tCPmV692/pair-of-headlights.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

THe second one still needs sanding and making a perfect mirror image but a bit of the foam snapped so that is glued and can wait until I have some more time. Most of the day and a half was spent waiting for glue to dry so I am used to it and there is no need to rush.

hey, well done, getting there.  must say that really does look like the hard way to do it!

looks like you were cutting the foam with a knife?  if you are to do it again a proxxon cutter is amazing and much easier to get curves and swoopy stuff.

to get a perfect mirror image is going to be a real effort, depending on your perfectionist streak.  if you had gone the route of 3d modelling mirroring is a single click and you know the design will be perfect.

I was thinking of getting a hot wire cutter to do the bonnet and wings but figured the headlights were too fiddly to make it worth while.

3D modelling is only the answer to your prayers IF you have the software, are skilled at using it plus have a big enough printer to print the final part and a printer capable of printing the part in the suitable material but more importantly than all of that...

...have some kind of dimensions to work from with measurements for the offset of headlights, how they will fit onto the front wing and alongside the bonnet etc. At the moment there is no front wing or bonnet to measure against and all of the dimensions and relative positioning is being done by eye. Basically I have to build a mock up, stare at it and decide what looks wrong, change that and try again. I know this is theoretically possibly with a 3D print model but I am sure it would have taken more that 2 weeks to create the equivalent using software.

I am happy for you to prove me wrong and will gladly share the rough dimensions for you to model and print me out a pair of perfect headlights ready for next weekend 😉

.

Here is the video of my struggles and final success :

Onwards to victory! A new mad citroen would be awesome. First car I drove was the my dad's CX Familiale.