[Closed] Windows ********* update.

User error.

I've had two windows updates in the past month on my desktop, both took a couple of minutes and no problems. Had one update on my laptop, about 5 minutes and no problem.

Sounds more like you need to backup and reinstall to have a good clearout.

I've never had an issue with it?

If you want the serious answer,

In the Apple world, Apple control both the hardware and software. They have to support a number of hardware models you could count on your extremities without needing to take your socks off.

PCs are not like that. There's thousands of hardware manufacturers making hundreds of thousands of different pieces of hardware, plus the safe in third-party software developers. The fact that a single OS works across them all as well as it does is frankly astonishing. It wasn't always this way.

Occasionally, things do go wrong. After a recent update my work laptop has inherited one of the weirdest sound issues I've ever come across in nearly 30 years of dealing with this stuff. But they're outliers. Because:

Why does always seem to break more stuff than it supposedly fixes?!

Is the operative word there "always" or "seem"? If the former it really rather sounds like you might have a hardware problem. If it's wonky in Safe Mode that would potentially point to a failing hard disk or RAM issues. If the latter then it's likely confirmation bias, you don't remember all the years of successful updates, just the ones which fail. It's the same as people who complain that it's "always" updating - it simply isn't. Unless an extraordinary fix is released in response an emergency, Windows updates once a month. If it's "always" updating then it's probably because you've followed some random 'advice' on the Internet to try and block it.

Is the operative word there “always” or “seem”?

Very much "seem". I update as soon as asked to, keep up to date etc to the point i don't really notice it until it goes wrong. I'm running a stock (except ssd and ram upgrade) laptop so theres no daft additional graphics etc to be a dick.

I just really needed it to be working this weekend! And every fix is turning into a non event.

Edit: essentially what you said cougar. What I'm not used to is the fixes not working

And whatvmakes it more frustrating is that the computer is clearly working.

I can log in to a black screen with cursor I can ctrl alt del etc but its the "windows" screen i can't see 😂

Might be worth giving this a punt.

https://www.memtest86.com/

Cheers cougar I'll try that.

Currently undergoing dells OS recovery thing and I have dug out the original hardrive i mirrored.

Honestly, if you've got to that point I'd flatten it and start again with a clean Windows install. The recovery OS is going to be as old as, well, how old's the computer?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

To be fair to the OP, I used to get issues, well one issue everytime Windows updates ran on my PC. Every single time, the video drivers would get replaced and the resolution was screwed when it came back up. Was infuriating, having to reinstall drivers and reset the resolution.. So, I disabled Windows updates for a year or so, with no detrimental effect.
When MS switched to the one single update file, I re-enabled the updates and it's been ok since.
So OP, if you're prepared to take the risk (everyone will put their hands up in horror and tell you it is one!) disable Windows updates (Google it, to find out how) and you won't get the issues any more.

Och i'm just having a moan because its not gone as planned.

Cougar i'll do that, you're right that old disk is a couple of year old now.

Ram test running.

everyone will put their hands up in horror and tell you it is one!

I will put my hand up because this is literally my job.

DO NOT disable Windows Updates unless you're planning on isolating that machine from the Internet. This is really, really bad advice. Don't do it.

Cougar i’ll do that, you’re right that old disk is a couple of year old now.

Obviously, backups, make sure you've got whatever serials you need to reinstall anything you've bought.

The last time my laptop got bricked after an update was with Ubuntu about 6 years ago. Windows, so far (fingers crossed etc) hasn't managed it.

I did advise my Mac-using daughters to wait a week or so before updating to Big Sur, and I note they've already changed to version 11.0.1 - presumably a couple of edge cases they didn't discover during testing. These things happen.

This is really, really bad advice. Don’t do it.

Haha! See told you.
I speak from experience and there was no detrimental effect to me, my computer or my financial situation. Obviously Cougar's advice, that you have decided to follow, is "better", but you know... experience.. and that. BTW, any people I have known or heard about having a virus, or their identity stolen, or whatever bad things are supposed to happen, would not have been saved by having the latest Microsoft update ( and probably they did have it already).

there was no detrimental effect to me

"I've had unprotected sex all my life and never caught Galloping Nobrot. Therefore it's a good idea to be a bareback serial shagger."

You got lucky. Well done.

but you know… experience..

Would you like us to compare experience? I rather doubt you'll win.

any people I have known or heard about having a virus, or their identity stolen, or whatever bad things are supposed to happen, would not have been saved by having the latest Microsoft update

So you routinely talk to people who have been hit with various malware and ask whether they were patched up to date?

In any case, this is apples and oranges. You're arguing that it's pointless to have a five-lever mortice lock conforming to BS3621 on your front door because everyone you know who has been burgled left their keys in the lock.

Get a room you two this thread is all about me and my problems!

That ram tester takes ages huh? Only just finished pass 1 of 4.

Heres a fun question cougar. Do i need to windows serial because that is going to be a bit of an issue what with not being able to get at my computer!

I don't think i have installed a OS since xp pro.

That ram tester takes ages huh? Only just finished pass 1 of 4.

I should've mentioned. Memtest will run indefinitely as a soak test (or did last time I used it). Once it's completed one full set of all tests you can kill it.

Heres a fun question cougar. Do i need to windows serial

No. From W8 on, Windows activation ties the PC to an electronic licence. Ie, once you've successfully activated a copy of W10 on that box you're set for life (unless the motherboard goes bang).

I thought that was the case but best to check!

Absolutely.

I prefer to do these in tandem with a drive swap, so you've got a hard rollback if it goes West. But you've already got an SSD installed and a non-functional build so there's less to be lost.

If you bought a car with keyless entry and starting, then thieves figured out how to bypass the security and steal your car, would you shrug your shoulders and say 'well, I don't know anyone who's had their car stolen' or would you take it straight to the dealer for the recall?

Because there are exploits discovered all the time - often by goodie hackers; they notify the relevant vendor (MS, Apple, Google etc) and then once there's been a fix made available they tell the world about it. This means that not only is there a way for people to compromise your computer, they can read about it freely on the internet.

Sorted. Cortana is helping me set up the nooo.

Cheers Cougar

mogrim
Full Member

The last time my laptop got bricked after an update was with Ubuntu about 6 years ago. Windows, so far (fingers crossed etc) hasn’t managed it.

I did advise my Mac-using daughters to wait a week or so before updating to Big Sur, and I note they’ve already changed to version 11.0.1 – presumably a couple of edge cases they didn’t discover during testing. These things happen.

Yeah there is actually a problem with Big Sur bricking older Macbook Pros at the moment, also USB problems (devices keep have phantom disconnects and so on).

Ah it's a ball ache isn't it.

Computers are just another tool to me, I just want them to work the same as last time.

Latest Windows update has caused these new wonderful features for me.

Won't wake from sleep at all.
DPC_Watchdog_violation.
Refused to accept I have speakers.

I hope this isn't a thread hijack, but I'd be really interested to know some specifics on what kind of awfulness could happen if I left a windows PC un-updated for a while. Like a couple of examples of nasties that could/have happened. Have things moved on since WannaCry?

I’d be really interested to know some specifics on what kind of awfulness could happen if I left a windows PC un-updated for a while.

The worst end of the spectrum is that you browse to an infected web page, your machine is compromised, your financial details and log in credentials for your online accounts are stolen, then hackers take over your bank accounts, email accounts, Facebook, etc. Another is that hackers encrypt your hard drive and ransom it back to you.

If you travel much and log into public wi-fi, or go to places like China or the Middle-East, there's a good chance that state sponsored hackers will attack any machine that they can so that you bring a malware package back with you and then compromise your whole organization. Someone in my organization clicked on a phishing email and managed to get our systems compromised. The hackers would not have been after what we have specifically, but we receive public funding for projects so they probably wanted to follow that stuff back to access research databases etc.

Contrary to the beliefs of Apple fanbois, this is not just a Windows problem. Any operating system will have vulnerabilities, so all computers and smartphones need to be kept up to date with security updates.

PCs are not like that. There’s thousands of hardware manufacturers making hundreds of thousands of different pieces of hardware, plus the safe in third-party software developers. The fact that a single OS works across them all as well as it does is frankly astonishing. It wasn’t always this way.

Occasionally, things do go wrong.

Worth mentioning here that the reason this problem seems to have gotten worse recently is because it has.  Which is down to Microsoft closing down it's hardware testing labs and getting rid of, what used to be a massive, QA testing team in favour of running 'virtual hardware testing' and the Windows Insider beta program.  Ever wondered what all the telemetry that Windows asks you to allow during an install is about.?  It's your copy of Windows feeding back to Microsoft how Windows10 interacts with your hardware.

Would be a good thing to do to supplement robust testing in-house but not to replace it.

One thing to remember is that the Windows update will check your hardware for compatibility before doing a feature update (i.e. the six-monthly new version of Windows rather than the monthly patch). They release the updates to known good configurations first. If you have some strange custom built machine, you will be told to wait before updating. Not saying it's perfect, but they don't just throw the new updates out to everyone all at once.

Refused to accept I have speakers.

Does it show your speaker icon in the System Tray with a big red cross through it? If so I have an incredibly bizarre workaround that I'd like you to try.

DPC_Watchdog_violation.

See if there's a firmware update available for your SSD.

Like a couple of examples of nasties that could/have happened.

I got malware from this very site once - just clicked on a thread, some dodgy ad somehow managed to hijack my internet connection by installing a local proxy server and changing my settings. I didn't click on anything visibly dodgy.

This was a good ten years ago mind - I think STW has improved since then. But the malware clearly exploited some vulnerability in order to do that - probably in my browser.

Have things moved on since WannaCry?

In short: no.

When WannaCry hit big and took out half the NHS, it was wholly avoidable. Patches had been available for (IIRC a couple of months, certainly weeks) which would have plugged the vulnerability which WannaCry exploited. Without that patch in place it was free to move laterally (ie, between machines) which it did at pace.

I'm struggling to think offhand of any high-profile worm where this hasn't been the case. Blaster had been patched out for like three months before it hit, and that was maybe 15 years ago. This isn't new, and it's not going to go away.

Arguably, this is a greater risk in the corporate arena where you've got many people bouncing their right index finger up and down with gay abandon rather than just two or three in your home network. But all it takes is for your finger to slip on a phishing email or for little Timmy to torrent an infected copy of Minecraft and you'll be on here making posts going "how do I unencrypt every photo and document I own going back 20 years?"

Feature updates can be problematic as above. But not installing security updates is essentially akin to refusing the measles vaccine for fear of side effects. Sure, there's a slight risk, but there's a far far greater one in not doing it.

Refused to accept I have speakers.

Does it show your speaker icon in the System Tray with a big red cross through it? If so I have an incredibly bizarre workaround that I’d like you to try.

No, it only offers Nvidia and LG sound output devices. If I plug the speakers into either monitor you get no sound. the MOBO has an audio device, but since the latest update it's 'dead'.

Fixed the error with an ATA/ATAPI driver update.

Hm, dunno then.

If you had an out-of-date ATA driver, that may suggest other chipset drivers also have updates. Is there an all-in-one "detect drivers" util from your chipset manufacturer? Intel do one.

Thanks all. Sorry for the hijack OP.

Also good to know I'm definitely immune to all of this on my mac 😉

Yeah, malware authors don't tend to target minority platforms.