I regularly daydream about how I'll spend my retirement (10-15 yrs) touring Scotland doing landscape photography. Will the migration to fully electric put an end to camper van ownership as we know it? Will they be out of most people's reach, lacking the range/freedom they do now.
Diesel campervans will still be around in 15 years
Will the migration to fully electric put an end to camper van ownership as we know it? Will they be out of most people’s reach, lacking the range/freedom they do now.
No
Why?
Retire? What a quaint concept…
There's a bigger problem with un-restricted visiting by the current camper owners that is seriously annoying the locals. The future could we'll require the camper owner to have a series of booked pitches for a visit to the Highlands and Islands. Guardian Article
They will undoubtedly be around but they won't be sold anymore. Overly simplistic to say they'll still be knocking about.
Which is why we need Aires in the UK.
VW ID Buzz is around £50k new. Not significantly different to a well specced Multivan. 10-15 years time you could assume that the second hand value of both might be the same.
Some very interesting electric vans coming in the next couple of years that would make great conversions, which is what I'm planning on converting rather than spending the time and effort doing a dino juice van. I realise it's going to be pricier but I don't think I'd feel right slowly chugging round in a thirsty diesel in a few years time.
Couldn't agree more
I’m planning retire in 2030 and buying a camper. I know diesel vans will be around but I suspect they’ll become increasingly hard to live with with clean air zones increasing fuel prices and duties. I don’t want to buy a van that I won’t be able to use a few years later.
I hope that battery tech will improve so you can get the same mileage as our current Caravelle which about 350 miles. They’ve come along way in the last 8 years and all the manufacturers are focusing on them you’d imagine they will improve even more and come down in price.
mileage as our current Caravelle which about 350 miles.
That sounds really low. Even my 2.5 T5 did 450miles and it’s supposedly the least efficient one they made (apart from the petrol ones).
LOL - I get over 600 miles from a tank in my Trafic. Nearer 700 if it's all out-of-town cruising.
Thinking on - my heater runs off diesel too. Assuming an electric equivalent is around, surely that'll eat into range too?
our 2.5 T5 will do 600+ on a tank if we're careful - what the hell have they done to the Caravelle to only get 350??
Waiting till you retire. Is like waiting until you are dead. At least do some of the dream now and amp up when free from the grind
Waiting till you retire. Is like waiting until you are dead. At least do some of the dream now and amp up when free from the grind
This, both my mum and my wife’s mum died relatively young, didn’t get to enjoy a retirement. Do it now?
our 2.5 T5 will do 600+ on a tank if we’re careful – what the hell have they done to the Caravelle to only get 350??
Fitted 3 ebikes and two SUPs to the roof?
What an odd question.
Will they be out of most people’s reach
Manufacturers aren't going to build vehicles no-one can afford, are they? For obvious reasons!
EV batteries are getting cheaper all the time and in a few years they will reach the point where the vehicles will become cheaper than those with ICEs. They are artificially high now because they are still selling faster than they can be produced, and lots of people in the UK are leasing and high projected residuals make for low lease costs.
In the US a Nissan Leaf is $27k (before the hefty government grant), which is only £20k. That's not bad for a car like that. So clearly our prices are still artificially high.
And places like the wilds of Scotland will need to put in loads of charging points otherwise no-one will go there!
Although I do agree with the sentiment, I’m content and just planning for/thinking about the future. Definitely not wishing the years away as I’ve two young kids.
I’d agrue they’re out of most peoples reach now never mind when they’re fully electric, artificially priced or not. The world is uncertain place, who knows what the landscape may be like. I thinks it’s a safe bet that a £50k+ Ecamper won’t be parked outside every other house.
I think personal transport generally won't be as readily available or affordable as it has been in the past. Dashing to the Highlands for a long weekend now and then, or doing a week's road trip around the coast - forget it.
If you've two young kids you might be around my age and so retiring towards 2050-2060 when you'll be 68 or older. May not have much stamina left for vanlife, or not for going up mountains to take photos past the first couple years of your retirement.
I’d agrue they’re out of most peoples reach now never mind when they’re fully electric
Good point. I have a car that's about £25k in hybrid form and about £30k in EV. That's a fairly big jump, but that extra £5k on a £60k camper isn't quite as big!
Manufacturers aren’t going to build vehicles no-one can afford, are they? For obvious reasons!
They do that already, then they coax punters into the arms of the finance industry to help them live their vehicular dream.
The nuclear war might put things into perspective regarding worrying about how green ones van is. So, providing you can find fuel you'll be 'good to go!'™. Best to get armed though, The north of Scotland might be where all the survivors from the ruined cities make a bee line for. You might have to fight off marauding hoards of cannibalistic fuel thieves whilst you're vanlifing™.Nobody's going to like & subscribe on your Insta selfie with some skinless wonder siphoning your diesel in the background.
Will vanlife exist when I retire?
Yes. But possibly not in the way you are imagining
Apparently the Ford F-150 electric that comes out this year in the US will have 500km range and a battery capable of running a house for ten days. At a cost of US$40k.
Price parity between petrol / electric vehicles is only a couple of years away so the job’s a good un.
When exactly are you retiring - 10, 20 years? I'm very interested in a VW Buzz. Anyway , ironically, thanks to dreaming of other lives... https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/the-mass-of-men-live-lives-of-quiet-desperation/
[/]The future could we’ll require the camper owner to have a series of booked pitches for a visit to the Highlands and Islands[/]
Or a change in attitudes and actually introducing plenty of approved Aires. With a good charging network your range is not that limiting, after all we 'should' take regular breaks when driving, not attempting to go from the South Coast to the Highlands with 1 fuel and 2 wee stops in one day. A few 40 minute coffee stops whilst on a fast charger will become the norm.
I'm watching to see how range and alternatives emerge...my van tows a horse trailer so the electric range would probably be in double digits even with the latest tech.
Also with campervans, they really need to adjust the licensing to allow regular drivers to drive 4.5-5t, weight is already the limiting factor on 3.5t campervans without a large capacity battery under the floor.
Shouldn't we all have flying DeLorean's by then?
I doubt in a few years time vehicles will be those dirty horrible non eco electric things
I’d argue they’re out of most peoples reach now never mind when they’re fully electric
A new IC car is out of our reach,never mind an EV, car or van.
We had a van years back, and old lwb hi-top LDV Convoy we converted and loved. That's about the level we're at. Currently bumbling along with an old zafira that really is on its last legs and thinking over options, but prices of anything are crazy, car or van.
I lived on a canal boat for a couple of years 30 years back too, that no longer seems like the cheap carefree option it once was either.
Or a change in attitudes and actually introducing plenty of approved Aires. With a good charging network your range is not that limiting, after all we ‘should’ take regular breaks when driving, not attempting to go from the South Coast to the Highlands with 1 fuel and 2 wee stops in one day.
It's unlikely as that's a bit French and Socialist. The supplied facilities will cost the user money rather than being seen as a local amenity. See also public transport in these countries.
We always do these things as half-arsed as possible.
And places like the wilds of Scotland will need to put in loads of charging points otherwise no-one will go there!
Ah bliss.
Specific charging point sites acting as Aires. Cheaper rates overnight with ridiculous high daytime fast charge rates. That might help pay for infrastructure and be self regulating.
I’m watching to see how range and alternatives emerge…my van tows a horse trailer so the electric range would probably be in double digits even with the latest tech.
Flip it round, go “old school” and have horse pull the van - that sounds like a way more interesting “van life” experience than most.
Also with campervans, they really need to adjust the licensing to allow regular drivers to drive 4.5-5t, weight is already the limiting factor on 3.5t campervans without a large capacity battery under the floor.
Anyone who really wants to drive a 4.5t van can go and sit the class C test. I’m not sure why that is a problem? If they can’t pass the class C test do we want them driving big heavy vehicles on the road? If the can (with some lessons) you are looking at hundreds of pounds to learn how to safely operate a machine that costs tens of thousands?
Specific charging point sites acting as Aires. Cheaper rates overnight with ridiculous high daytime fast charge rates.
There's going to be a whole load of big cables required for that to occur or you're going to be camping alongside big switching stations. A 22kW charger requires a 32A 3 phase supply, 350kW. . . That's a lot of disruption and wilderness despoiling to provide the infrastructure.
Yes, it will exist, but may not be a van...depending on where you are going it might be a vehicle to store all the kit and you'll be in a tent. This is based on the way costs are going and how much more expensive will be.
Unsure it will ever go away, it might change a wee bit but the basis of getting away and being more self-sufficient will still exist, so nothing to worry about really (for now). It will become more an issue when it is time to commit as the costs will be astronomical.
Anyone who really wants to drive a 4.5t van can go and sit the class C test. I’m not sure why that is a problem? If they can’t pass the class C test do we want them driving big heavy vehicles on the road?
+1
That is an awful lot of mass and should (well, is) be a privilege with additional training
On the subject of aires, I could see a low-cost (to the visitor) version really catching on in Scotland.
The Forestry up there was/is allowing vans to stop overnight for the cost of two days' parking IIRC. They seem perfectly positioned to expand that more widely, delivering an additional public service (and perhaps driving more business to their cafés).
It a 2006 2.5, Massive Roofbox and 2 bikes on the roof, 5 bikes on the back, packed inside to the rafters, slightly tuned engine, French motorways run at about 85mph. This is where it does most of its milage. It burns through fuel.
I assume it will be illegal, like being a "traveller". The scum must stay in their (un-insulated) storage facilities (what we used to call "houses") except when they are working to increase the wealth of the Etonians.
Yes, it will exist, but may not be a van…depending on where you are going it might be a vehicle to store all the kit and you’ll be in a tent. This is based on the way costs are going and how much more expensive will be.
yeah, good luck finding a camp site. They're either dissapearing (either for good or up their own arses) or only want pre booking for 2 or 3 night minimum stays at rediculous prices. I long for the old days where you could just rock up at a camp site pay a grumpy old sod sat in a battered caravan at the entrance and pitch up. Go for a walk/ride, then move on the next day to somewhere else....
Now its all dyson hand dryers, artisan food trucks and half the site taken over by ****ing yurts!
Also with campervans, they really need to adjust the licensing to allow regular drivers to drive 4.5-5t
As others have said, entirely back to front argument. No way should someone used to driving a hatchback be allowed to jump in big 3.5t+ vehicles and just drive them away without training and testing.
I’m not sure why that is a problem? If they can’t pass the class C test do we want them driving big heavy vehicles on the road?
+1
That is an awful lot of mass and should (well, is) be a privilege with additional training
The current problem is that loads of vans are currently being driven illegally and blatantly overweight.
Some manufacturers are absolutely taking the piss with the derisory payloads.
Re: campsite trends, I know a few campsite/ex-campsite owners, and rowdy behaviour had increasingly become an issue even before Covid. My own theory is that, for many people, their formative experience of camping was at music festivals, and that's what they think camping is: loud music, getting p!ssed, etc. More trouble than it's worth, easier to convert the field to hard standing and charge a premium to keep the riff raff out.
The current problem is that loads of vans are currently being driven illegally and blatantly overweight.
Source?
I think there are folk heading off for the 'van life' who are not used to big vehicles, and who's 'right to van life' trumps all sorts of environmental, social and economic concerns. However, they still remain the minority and most van-lifers are really rather aware and positive.
I do think there will be a market re-adjustment for old, home-converted camper vans that face increasing controls and resistance...
I could see the switch to EV vans being a good thing, for a start it removes the noise of a diesel engine in a big coke can and I'd hope the skateboard design of EV's will further reduce road noise a little. Plus also once charging infrastructure improves, when you're camping you have an enormous battery to run appliances that otherwise wouldn't be practical. Eg: Someone will make an EV plug in heated shower kit for camping!
[i]Anyone who really wants to drive a 4.5t van can go and sit the class C test. I’m not sure why that is a problem? If they can’t pass the class C test do we want them driving big heavy vehicles on the road?[/i]
Well last year I'd have agreed, but seeing as your small hatchback driver can now drive a 7 ton combination of car and caravan, transit and mini-digger on a plant trailer, with a standard license and no further training, that appears to be much more risky than driving a 4.5t van. I've got my BE and C license, but there is not much difference between driving a 3.5t van and a 5t van, they are the same external dimensions, have standard gearboxes and standard brakes. Many can be uprated to around 4.5t without any physical modification, just some paperwork required.
There are license exemptions for minibuses with wheelchair lifts as it puts them over a standard license, they could do the same for electric vans to help ensure they are accessible to normal drivers.
[i]The current problem is that loads of vans are currently being driven illegally and blatantly overweight.
Source?[/i]
Well, if you look at the typical payload of commercially produced motorhomes, you'd struggle take much without going overweight. There will be a significant amount that are overweight, once you've put 4 people, clobber and your bikes into a 4 berth motorhome.
he north of Scotland might be where all the survivors from the ruined cities make a bee line for.
Nah, the fallout from the airburst detonations over the north sea will make most of Scotland a nuclear wasteland.
It a 2006 2.5, Massive Roofbox and 2 bikes on the roof, 5 bikes on the back, packed inside to the rafters, slightly tuned engine, French motorways run at about 85mph. This is where it does most of its milage. It burns through fuel.
Try lifting your right foot a little.
5hrs of training will allow you to drive an electric van up to 4.25T without C1 on your licence apparently
There’s going to be a whole load of big cables required for that to occur or you’re going to be camping alongside big switching stations. A 22kW charger requires a 32A 3 phase supply, 350kW. . . That’s a lot of disruption and wilderness despoiling to provide the infrastructure.
Yup. Iirc a fast charger is rated at 63A and needs a 100kW 3 ph supply... one of those in a remote highland location? That will be a min 6 figure sum for a supply, plus your civils... fast charger alone is circa ££30k (+vat). So a new facility is going to cost you, what, £0.5mil. That’s a metric ****load of campervan overnights 🤣🤣🤣
Assuming there’s capacity in the grid when every home is looking for an additional 13kW for their EV and ASHP...
Alternatively everyone will install 3-10kW of PV depending on their roof space, thermal solar and insulate their homes. They'll charge the EV off-peak and let the grid take a proportion back if its needed by the grid but not the owner.
I'm still producing more kWh than I consume even with an EV with out any fossil fuel at home with only 3kW of PV. PV is now so cheap that if I were doing the installation now I'd have 5kW.
I don't want a camper van now, I've had a T2 and Ducato L1H2 in the past but prefer camping and hotels at present. If I did buy a camper van again it would be electric:
Or you could put a couple of panniers on, hop on a train and cycle to where you want to go at the other end?
Only reason why people use camper vans is laziness through the medium of luxuries.
Our last Summer holiday was a TGV to Paris then cycle camping 1400km and 21 campsites (and one hotel).
Next holiday is a bus to Valladolid, buses/trains to Astorga, walk to Compostelle, buses/trains home. Well that's the plan. If we did that in a camper van we'd meet some monosybalic miseries complaining about the traffic and train noise on the aires. In the albergué, pensions, hostals, and hotels we'll meet smelly, snorey pilgrims from all over the world to natter with.
So yes, I agree b230ftw.
Yup. Iirc a fast charger is rated at 63A and needs a 100kW 3 ph supply… one of those in a remote highland location?
I assume that most remote charging stations will just charge batteries off solar panels / low current supply and then provide high current charging by discharging the local batteries rather than relying on a high current supply. I assumed that's what a lot of the Tesla charging stations do in the US.
Although works better in sunny areas:
Also with campervans, they really need to adjust the licensing to allow regular drivers to drive 4.5-5t
Which is pretty much why electric is not the solution for goods vehicles unless only doing short sprints around town. Hopefully there will be a better solution or I suspect the very non ideal hybrid solution will be popular for some time.
Plenty of 20year old vans driving around now so I. 20 years there will still be loads of vans about. Will be an issue in town but that's not where you tend to with a camper.
Why wait 15 years... a lot can change in a persons life to waste time being unhappy
I'm 47. My worry is whether retirement will still exist when I retire.
Or you could put a couple of panniers on, hop on a train and cycle to where you want to go at the other end?
Only reason why people use camper vans is laziness through the medium of luxuries.
Pathetic trolling.
There are a million reasons why people use camper vans rather than trains and bikes. I'm not getting into whataboutery, but to just start the thought process I'll just say disabled people, dogs, trains you can't take bikes on, and places there is no train service.
