Jeremy Corbyn's obsession with buses got me wondering about this.
I live in Cambridge, so perhaps a bit unusual, but I hardly ever take a bus - they don't go where I want to go, they're slow, and cost an insane amount of money. But I'm happy to ride up and down Castle Hill on a windy day, so I'm in a minority.
But what if loads of people had ebikes, and they *all* started using them rather than taking the bus?
Are we going to see people abandoning buses in favour of ebikes, with the overall bus service slowly being nibbled away until it's no longer even remotely viable economically?
What's then going to happen then to people living out in the sticks - even I would balk at taking an ebike to Cambridge from Ramsey on a cold rainy December day.
Maybe Ebuses could be the answer. An electric bus, with a bike rack, upon which you can recharge your ebike.
No, partially for the reason you mention above, most people are not going to cycle to work in the rain let alone long distances in December.
There isn’t the infrastructure to support it and there isn’t the impetus from the public or government to improve road infrastructure or driver mentality towards cyclists. Neither is there enough secure cycle parking, nor work places with showers and changing facilities etc.
No matter what lip service the current govt. pay to climate change and infrastructure improvements, budgets are still being cut and the big infrastructure projects are still either roads designed without cycling in mind or london-centric.
I remain to be convinced that e-bikes are commuting nirvana.
Yes you can do 15mph without sweating, but that doesn't solve any infrastructure problems. I mean just look at Cambridge, it's full of bikes, very few are electric. Most solve the actual risk of bike commuting, somewhere to leave it and theft by being cheap and simple and unappealing.
E-bikes solve commuting problems in the same way a Ferrari will get you to work quicker than a fiesta. It won't unless some infrastructure there for it. Which Cambridge has, and has lots of bikes, and still has buses.
I mean just look at Cambridge, it’s full of bikes, very few are electric.
Cambridge is not exactly riddled with hills is it? The reason bikes are so popular in Cambridge is because it's so flat. See also Amsterdam and Copenhagen. To talk about 15mph cruising speeds and ferraris vs fiestas is to completely miss the main benefit of an ebike as a commuting vehicle. An ebike allows an average Joe/Jo to ride to work or the shops on a bike that puts a rider in a comfortable position (as opposed to an efficient wind cheating head down arse up position) in their everyday clothes carrying a reasonable load and not get a right sweat on. If you will, to get the Amsterdam cycling experience in Bath, Lincoln or Edinburgh.
The infrastructure is obviously still an issue - but that is always a chicken and egg conundrum.
Wouldn't better public transport encourage more use of bikes?
More transport options make owning/using a car less appealing; less traffic on the roads makes converting some of the space to cycling infrastructure look more sensible.
To be fair going to Ramsey on any day is something a sane person would rather avoid.
I don't think ebikes will replace buses primarily because in the sticks they are almost essential for the blue rinse brigade to get around and I can't see many of the aged spending a whole load on an ebike
If enough people switch to ebikes, then the subsidies that councils pay to keep bus services running will look even harder to justify.
That will then reduce bus services, and more people will switch to either cars or ebikes.
Are we going to see people abandoning buses in favour of ebikes
Buses primarily serve those without cars, often because they can't afford them. I doubt they'll be able to afford an ebike.
Cambridge is not exactly riddled with hills is it? The reason bikes are so popular in Cambridge is because it’s so flat.
And yet it still has busses.
If enough people switch to ebikes, then the subsidies that councils pay to keep bus services running will look even harder to justify.
That will then reduce bus services, and more people will switch to either cars or ebikes.
Do you have any evidence to back that up.
Bike ownership in Cambridge hasn't killed the bus service.
Car ownership anywhere else hasn't quite killed it off.
They're a solution to a problem, but I remain to be convinced that it's one that a majority will adopt. How many mobilettes do you see, same basic idea?
For £300 more you could cbt, tax and insure a moped which are pretty comparable to e-bikes price wise.
Buses primarily serve those without cars, often because they can’t afford them.
Round here busses serve OAP's with free bus passes because they are so expensive. People who can't afford cars use taxi's to get to our local town because that's cheaper if there is a couple of you going with any kids.
Having e-assistance doesn't help with the lack of perceived safe infrastructure options or crappy weather.
I use the bus at least once a week, it’s a good urban transit solution.
In London the fleets are going to become electric in the next few years which will drive quite a bit of infrastructure change including ev public charging and last mile delivery solutions.
Uber/ Lyft/ autonomous cars is not really a solution for cities as all it does is transfer low occupancy transit and require somewhere to put them.
Last mile delivery changes are likely to have a much larger impact on urban vehicle congestion.
Prperly run (urban) bus services are comparatively cheap , convenient and low pollution. See Edinburgh for an example. I get around 40 buses an hour at the stop outside my house. I can go anwhere on these buses for £1.70 ( thats anywhere inside the bypass plus a few places outside it.)
A problem with bues I the insistence on running massive buses all the time rather than more frequent smaller bues. I think Hong Kong has a excellent system with its mini buses.
i.e. buses are great if you live in London, otherwise they're terrible.
And Edinburgh - better than London IME. What is the similarity? Not for profit and city wide services.
eBikes are expensive and Cambridge is notorious for bike crime, so I can't see them really taking off unless you can lock them somewhere secure at work, which rules out most people using them to commute.
eBikes are expensive and Cambridge is notorious for bike crime, so I can’t see them really taking off unless you can lock them somewhere secure at work, which rules out most people using them to commute.
This. Basically.
A bus does an average of 3 mph in Glasgow. Most are under 50% occupancy. That is not a viable means of transport in anyones book.
In Stirling there are 3 bus stops within a half mile of the bus station on a couple routes.
The overall infrastructure is the problem but e bikes are not the solution. People who can work from home doing so is.
As always I'll point to Copenhagen as an example, ebikes are completely normal and very popular (the bike sheds at work have a row of ebike charging points) here but people still use the bus as well. You can take your bike on the bus, train and metro here though, if the weather turns on you. The big difference compared to the UK is not many people use cars.
The buses are quite a different experience here too, I'm used to Edinburgh buses which I believe have an average speed of 6mph, in CPH getting the bus is comparitively terrifying as they steam along at the speed limit, it's a different world.
ebikes adoption for commuting?
Cons:
Little to no infra
Expensive outlay for decent bike
Population culturally car-dependent/entitled/weather-averse and sedentary
Attitudes towards cyclists on UK/Aus/US roads are at all time low thanks to media/clickbait/increased car-user-ship for all journeys.
Conclusion: Not happening. (Me = lifelong cycle-commuter and cycling advocate since late 1980s)
https://www.aldi.co.uk/black-hybrid-electric-bike/p/013291271176200
much is an adult bus pass for the year again?
https://www.lothianbuses.com/ridacard/
cycle advocacy?
hmm...
The overall infrastructure is the problem but e bikes are not the solution. People who can work from home doing so is.
Solution to the wrong problem, people living miles from where they work is the root cause of the issue. When I was a lad, cars were rare and expensive and most people walked or cycled to work (or took a bus). For some reason now people buy houses miles away from where they work and then spend hours sat in a metal box gassing the world (and themselves) to an early death and consider it 'normal' behaviour.
*applauds footflaps*
in the same way a Ferrari will get you to work quicker than a fiesta.
Not sat in rush hour traffic it won't.
"Having e-assistance doesn’t help with the lack of perceived safe infrastructure options or crappy weather."
Tthew has it. Although having infrastructure that works will massively help because people who don't ride will start and thhen find that there aren't that many days when the weather really is the factor (e-bikes with heated grips!)
Also, more bikes will de-congest the roads and make buses more viable; because buses and bikes share space better than bus and car
For some reason now people buy houses miles away from where they work and then spend hours sat in a metal box gassing the world (and themselves) to an early death and consider it ‘normal’ behaviour.
Complete bollocks! Nowadays, people frequently have to find work that’s miles from where they live, unless they are prepared to take minimum wage shelf-stacking or warehouse work, the local large businesses that employed most of a town’s working population closed years ago! For most of my life I’ve worked either within walking or cycling distance, or for thirteen years, a short drive away. I now have to drive fifteen miles to work, there’s little work available to me close by, unless I’m prepared to work in Aldi or Lidl.
Also, developers are building estates often significant distances from where main centres of employment are, with little transport available nearby.
It’s fine for the tj’s of this world who live in cities with a good transport infrastructure, but a huge part of the population don’t have that luxury, the live in more rural locations with poor public transport.
But what if loads of people had ebikes, and they *all* started using them rather than taking the bus?
There was a good edition of the David Milliband, 'Reasons to be Cheerful' podcast a week or two back when they looked at cycling from the point of view of people who were currently non-cyclists with input from several experts along with the mayor of Valencia where they've managed to reduce motorised traffic to 20% of its previous level. The two factors that really jumped out were that people perceived cycling as unsafe and that this was because of the absence of cycling-friendly infrastructure, by which they mostly meant physical separation of bikes from other traffic.
Anyway, the current problem is that lots of people have cars and use them instead of taking the bus.
It’s fine for the tj’s of this world who live in cities with a good transport infrastructure, but a huge part of the population don’t have that luxury, the live in more rural locations with poor public transport.
well 90% of the uK population is considered urban (2010 figures*), so the 'rural' problem only affects 10%, which is falling year on year as we continue to urbanise.
And I still consider the root problem to be the need to commute, it's just such a huge waste of resources, both people's time and the carbon footprint necessary to move millions of people to/from work every day.
* https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2009/aug/18/percentage-population-living-cities
cycle advocacy?
hmm…
Hey, I said I was an advocate of cycling, not of fantastical projections based upon head in the sand about where we're at today and trending...
Also, it seems that both cycling (and walking) have already 'eaten' buses,at least in the UK
Just that most journeys tend and trend to be by car, van etc.
More stuff about commuting
But you inferred that people where deliberately buying homes long distances away from their place of work. Some will of course but the majority would rather not. I live on the Wirral and Vauxhall cars, who are a major employer in the area employed 12000 staff at its peak some years ago. It now employs around 10% of that. Those made unemployed due to the reduction in opportunities have the choice of uprooting family, (partners who often work) or staying put and incurring a soul destroying commute. The nature of work is changing rapidly and the use of technology is something we are incredibly slow to adopt, however like all of these things it is a bit more complex.
To answer the question, probably not but as with all these things because they dont answer every scenario they shouldnt be dismissed, they are part of the mix and the uptake of electric cars seems to be taking a long time.
electric unicycles are the answer - I can get over 35 miles out of mine I can store it under my desk (just) whereas I can't do that with an e-bike...
Seen a few student types on them in Liverpool city centre, look futuristic and great fun, dont think I could master one though
dont think I could master one though
if you can ride a bike then I'm sure that you could.
some carving - checkout the inst360 camera where the software removes the selfie-stick from the video :
But you inferred that people where deliberately buying homes long distances away from their place of work.
Many do make this as an active choice, its well known and you'll find many econmonics / social physcology articles about the subject, just google The Commuting Paradox etc:
This is what economists call "the commuting paradox." Most people travel long distances with the idea that they'll accept the burden for something better, be it a house, salary, or school. They presume the trade-off is worth the agony. But studies show that commuters are on average much less satisfied with their lives than noncommuters. A commuter who travels one hour, one way, would have to make 40% more than his current salary to be as fully satisfied with his life as a noncommuter, say economists Bruno S. Frey and Alois Stutzer of the University of Zurich's Institute for Empirical Research in Economics. People usually overestimate the value of the things they'll obtain by commuting -- more money, more material goods, more prestige -- and underestimate the benefit of what they are losing: social connections, hobbies, and health. "Commuting is a stress that doesn't pay off," says Stutzer.
I realise that not everyone can find a house next to their work, but by normalising commuting, we have started designing towns / cities around it, thus perpetuating the problem. Cambridge City planning is a classic example; in order to make space for new houses we're moving business out to the sticks and beyond, hollowing out jobs in the City. This creates more homes but also more congestion. The local council depo (bins / street cleaning etc) is just being developed. So if you're a council worker living in Cambridge, rather than walking to work, you now drive X miles out of town to the new depo. Pick up your cleaning vehicle and then drive x miles back into town to clean the streets and then reverse both journies at the end of your shift. Meanwhile the people in the nice new homes will drive x miles out of town to all their jobs. It is quite mad if you think about it from a logistics point of view. Like organising a warehouse to maximise the distance travelled for each item...
We live in a Victorian Railway workers cottage, built next to the Railway so workers had to walk all of 500 yards to work. Society is going to the other extreme at the moment....
this is more likely
I don't see why e-bikes would kill off Busses, they're actually a rather expensive transport option when compared with non-e-bikes, worthwhile if you're regularly lugging cargo or live in a hilly town/city I suppose but for most people still an expensive novelty...
Plus of course busses are still a damn sight more convenient, affordable and less bothersome for "normal people" than any sort of bicycle...
It's all part of a basic urban transport mix though innit. Most things are better than private motor cars for the environment, peoples health and general well being but it all still has to work and be justified within the bounds of an infrastructure which is mainly geared around private motor car use still... That'll change eventually.
Not sat in rush hour traffic it won’t.
You need to get your sarcasm detector re-calibrated.
An e-bike solves the problem of commuting by by bike in the same way a Ferrari solves the problems of commuting in a fiesta.
