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Car dealer told me today that he was asked by a woman if he could take the isofix mountings out. He said no it's part of the car.
She said she was a buyer for mothercare. Based on what she had learnt in her job she said she would never use isofix. She declined to elaborate.
I've never heard of any reason not to use isofix of it's available. In fact this is the exact opposite of what I was taught when I was trained at Halfords. I know Mothercare have been criticised before for poor advice on child seats. But I'm now wondering what this women thought she knew that I Don't.
Has anyone else heard of anything similar?
Well just having the Isofix mounts does not preclude using a non Isofix baby/child seat so even if there was an issue with Isofix you are not forced to use it.
[url= http://www.which.co.uk/baby-and-child/baby-transport/guides/isofix-child-car-seats/are-isofix-car-seats-safer/ ]Brief which? article[/url]
razorrazoo - MemberWell just having the Isofix mounts does not preclude using a non Isofix baby/child seat so even if there was an issue with Isofix you are not forced to use it.
Exactly. The wife's car was isofix, mine was not so we bought non isofix seats to work in both.
She declined to elaborate.
She might have just seen a lot of warranty returns for something innocuous.
Perhaps the best answer is to write to Mothercare and ask them if they have an opinion on something to just come right out and say it publicly rather than have their staff starting whispering campaigns 🙂
To be honest, if the said woman really was a buyer from Mothercare surely she would know that you don't have to use Isofix even if there are fixings.
Isofix seems very expensive and bulky for a feature you don't really need. It's not hard to put a seat in safely using a seat belt. I'm not aware of some dark secret about it though.
She might have just seen a lot of warranty returns for something innocuous.
... or read something on the Internet.
razorrazoo - MemberTo be honest, if the said woman really was a buyer from Mothercare surely she would know that you don't have to use Isofix even if there are fixings.
The other possibility is that she buys nappies and bum cream for mothercare and has dick all to do with car seats. A certain Italian clothing brand was complaining to some collegues of mine at the Giro that they had to explain to buyers from a well know mail order bike shop what bib tights were.
JimJam I suspect you are right. Isofix was invented partly because it actually quite hard to fit a child seat correctly, or more specifically it's hard to make a car seat that fits every car miso fix gets round both problems.
I've travelled the Internet tonight and can find no cons of having isofix.
Or Halfords tell their staff to big up ISOFIX as the profits are greater.
Drac - ModeratorOr Halfords tell their staff to big up ISOFIX as the profits are greater.
How so?
More expensive for base plus seat.
To be honest it's great for the first seat when it is in and out of the car a lot. Not really needed afterwards for the bigger seats which stay in the car.
razorrazoo - MemberMore expensive for base plus seat.
Doesn't necessarily mean better margins though.
Nonsense - was he trying to sell you a non-isofix car? I can see zero point in removing it - you don't have to use them.
We don't simply because the shitty Graco car seat we originally bought tilted too far forward on the isofix base so I returned it for Cybex one that wasn't isofix. When we switch to a forward facing seat next month it'll be isofix (and cybex).
More expensive for base plus seat.Doesn't necessarily mean better margins though.
Doesn't need to be, I think that's the point?
Profit margin is about the same on any seat once you go above the budget range. Halfords was pushing isofix because they are easier to fit.
P-Jay - not sure what you mean. He wasn't trying to sell me a car at all. We were just talking about car seats.
We were steered away from isofix - dealer said the semi rigid connection could transfer vibration and shock from the car to the seat where a seat on the cushion was damped. Not sure I believe it but as my vehicle is non isofix anyway it wasn't an option for us. But one possible reason for the above?
Halfords was pushing isofix because they are easier to fit.
Really? Now I really do think I was right.
As per what gravity-slave above said. Some reports advise there is no 'give' in the isofix system compared to seat belt restraint. However, not sure if this has actually been proven especially as the new I-safe restraint system is isofix only.
I was told that using the conventional seatbelt connection, and not connecting the seat directly to the chassie, gave a safer more cushioned connection.
This of course could be bollocks.
Car dealer told me today...
There's a clue there to the BS that followed!
We were sold non isofix... on being able to use the seat in grandparents non isofix car and the fact that....
Seat belts have just a bit of give in them, so that in event of a crash (touch wood that don't happen ) the forward momentum is slowed down not so abruptly as it would be in isofix?
Let hope you'll never have to test it
The shit people are spouting.. Seat belts are designed to engage as quickly as possible. Do you think F1 drivers like a bit of give, or prefer to be tightly strapped to the vehicle.. people giving that kind of advise are dangerous. Next time someone comes out with that much bull, punch them in the nose.
I'd have been punching the car seat designer then.
Of course they engage asap, but being made of material seat belts will 'give' just a little bit
No idea on the op but one of the highest rated car seats for safety for the 1 year old + size of [s]delinquent monkey[/s] toddler is/was the kiddy infinity which was entirely NOT isofix. It was the seat Renault illustrated in the brochure for the mark 2 Megane (one of the first 5star family hatches) which had lumpy isofix stuff in every seat possible. We have one and it has been awesome. So simple, light to move between cars and reduce the seats own momentum and comfy for the kids.
I had understood that an big forward facing kid isofix seat is basically a lot safer only when fitted on isofix the belt alternative fittings often being a compromise.
Seat belts have 2 tenths of nothing give I'd working properly. Pull one hard and see how much it gives.. Iso fix is far safer. Watch a video of a seater strapped car seat and then tell me it's safer, it fly around the vehicle..
Bloody auto correct..
Have there been any detailed tests on any of this ala euroncap?
Do you think F1 drivers [b]use normal car seats and seat belts?[/b]
They don't.
2 tenth more than isofix
Anyway
Belt up
🙂
No they use 5 point harness
How many point is a kiddy car seat?
I'm slightly passed so got the drunk rage.. Point still stands, but would normally be more subtle.
I think the Germans did some testing in this area around the safety of different seats with and without iso fix. Which? did some testing or drew on other tests a few years back (where my understanding comes from) on this topic.
Bought isofix seats when ours were little, as the Toyota had the mounts. Was a doddle putting seats in, so much so that I was worried they weren't in correctly & put the belt on also. 😕
Putting them in the Rover I had was a pain but seeing both kids hanging upside down after the car crashed & rolled on the motorway one day, brought home to me the importance of taking the time to fit them properly.
Someone selling me a car said...
Someone claiming to be from Mothercare said...
A dealer said...
Well, I'm convinced.
All seat belts and even isofix have a 'bit' of give in them, so that the full impact force is not transmitted directly into the body. Even a tiny movement can significantly reduce impact forces.
It's why rock climbers use dynamic (stretchy) climbing ropes as opposed to static lines. A big fall on a static rope could break your back.
My understanding of isofix is that it is not necessarily safer than a correctly-fitted seatbelt child seat, but the difference is that it is much easier to fit a conventional child seat incorrectly.
In a normal passenger car the bit that has give and absorbs impact is the car body itself not the seatbelt . Seat belts are designed to have no give at all in them. They're weaved in such a way that when pulled in tension they actually shorten and widen. This is to spread the load over a wider area and prevent the belt cutting into your shoulder. If the seatbelt was allowed to stretch under load it would narrow and cause more damage to the person. Also modern cars have seatbelt tensioners fitted that pulls the seatbelt tighter in the event of a crash - in the front seats at least.
At the of the day, bickering aside,we want living children yes?
Even if there was a benefit from seatbelts vs isofix in a correctly fitted seat (which I don't believe there can be), that would be massively outweighed by the vastly increased probability of incorrect fitting when using seatbelts.
johndoh - Member
At the of the day, bickering aside,we want living children yes?
As a proud parent? - undoubtedly yes
As a race? - No definitely not - the less of those selfish & wasteful humans on the planet the better.
😉
Clearly car dealer rollox. Seatbelt-secured child seats are actually being outlawed in the next few [url= http://www.i-size.org.uk/ ]years[/url]
Rollox yourself, if you read the i-size thing properly it says that they won't be outlawed until the vast majority of cars have the facility for Isofix which is several years away at least. Same as when they brought in mandatory seatbelt usage.
Will manufacturers stop making car seats that fit only with a seat belt?In time yes, but this is likely to be some years away. Modern cars are designed and built to last a long time and it is is very likely that, for example, in 15 years’ time we will still have vehicles on the roads that will not have i-Size fixing points.
My understanding of isofix is that it is not necessarily safer than a correctly-fitted seatbelt child seat, but the difference is that it is much easier to fit a conventional child seat incorrectly.
I think this is the key bit - IsoFix isn't inherently safer, but easier to ensure it is consistently safe compared to a seatbelt based restraint
On the isofix seat we have the rigid isofix bit is designed to give under extreme loads and leave a flexible tether. The safety comes from positioning the child and the seat belt in the correct place relative to each other. They are effectively big booster seats though.
The last 2 posts are the real truth, once fitted they tend to be fitted well. Might not be easier to fit, might not be safer but less likely to be fitted badly. And yes that website does not mention an outlawing of seatbelt fitted seats rather a phase out, which is logical.
Seat belts have just a bit of give in them, so that in event of a crash (touch wood that don't happen ) the forward momentum is slowed down not so abruptly as it would be in isofix?
Of course this argument (if accepted as having a shred of proof in it) only works with Group 0 and 1 seats. When you get to Group 2, there isn't a seat harness anyway and the child relies on the car seatbelt.