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Very good article on why, imo, any claims that anyone is winning these wars(and the wars to come) are well wide of the mark.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n13/patrick-cockburn/why-join-islamic-state
What's the pension like?
I want to kill unbelievers and whores.
I joined for the free multi-tool.
Free multi-tool?! is that just for new subscribers or can anyone get it?
@seosamh thanks yes very interesting. I am reading Emma Sky's book "The Unraveling" and she speaks at length about the Kurdish / Sunni conflicts with Sadam ethnically cleansing Kurdish areas and installing Sunnis and about how they are now retaking them with a measure of revenge. Also you have the Shia/Sunni conflicts. Creates huge opportunities for disruptive groups to form. Also interesting how the article comments about how much of the Iraqi army was fake, ghost soldiers to allow officers to claim multiple salaries and certainly not interested in fighting.
What's the pension like?
Widows are promised house and money for life, very good. Just read an article on that on the Guaurdian this morning [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/isis-brides-secret-world-jihad-western-women-syria ]link[/url]
Of course for the men its an eternal life with 72 virgins to keep you occupied
I joined for the free multi-tool.
🙂
I thought they only needed the large serrated beheading knife ?
Free multi-tool?! is that just for new subscribers or can anyone get it?
New converts only - it hasn't arrived yet though and it's been two months now. Heads will roll if it doesn't turn up soon.
Are the 72 virgins continually replaced after use?
Emasculation of western society.
jambalaya - Member
@seosamh thanks yes very interesting. I am reading Emma Sky's book "The Unraveling" and she speaks at length about the Kurdish / Sunni conflicts with Sadam ethnically cleansing Kurdish areas and installing Sunnis and about how they are now retaking them with a measure of revenge. Also you have the Shia/Sunni conflicts. Creates huge opportunities for disruptive groups to form. Also interesting how the article comments about how much of the Iraqi army was fake, ghost soldiers to allow officers to claim multiple salaries and certainly not interested in fighting.
I'll maybe take a look at that book, sounds interesting.
Aye, I think a quagmire is somewhat lacking in descriptive terms for what is actually happening over there, I see no end to it. Even if the current well publicised battles are resolved(unlikely), Assad, and islam state, the sunni/shia sectarianism. There's still plenty to come, how will the turks for example react to a kurdish state on the southern border once the americans lose interest in bombing runs and arming them?
I think it's more likely we'll see further expansion and more conflicts arising.
Regarding Islamic state though, it's interesting how some locals view them as a vehicle against what they perceive as forces that have failed them and also how fluid they seem to be. Strikes me that we view this as a conventional war against IS, but it's not really, it's a quasi conventional war, with alot of aspects of a guerilla war added in there. So somewhat more difficult to fight as they aren't always visible and are willing to give up territory at the drop of a hat. As I say IS strike me as very fluid, and i think it's a tactic they'll export/they are exporting elsewhere in the world.
They aren't going anywhere soon imo. We need to start thinking outside the box about how to deal with them, as war alone won't deal do it, imo.
Of course for the men its an eternal life with 72 virgins to keep you occupied
72 virgins? That just sounds like an IT department. Who'd want that for eternity?
Many of those who join Islamic state must do it after being brainwashed by [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wahhabism-a-deadly-scripture-398516.html ]Saudi funded Wahhabism[/url]:
an undercover reporter for Channel 4 filmed preachers and obtained DVDs and books inside mosques which were filled with hate-filled invective against Christians and Jews. They condemned democracy and called for jihad. They presented women as intellectually congenitally deficient and in need of beating when they transgressed Islamic dress codes. They said that children over the age of 10 should be hit if they did not pray. Again the main mosque chosen for exposure was influenced and funded from Saudi Arabia.
Saudi spending on religious causes abroad as between $2bn [£960m] and $3bn per year since 1975 (comparing favourably with what was the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1bn), which has been spent on 1,500 mosques, 210 Islamic centres and dozens of Muslim academies and schools
Of course, the allure of [url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq? ]Weapons provided by the CIA and MI6 must help[/url]:
Reports were cited that MI6 had cooperated with the CIA on a “rat line” of arms transfers from Libyan stockpiles to the Syrian rebels in 2012 after the fall of the Gaddafi regime
We need to start thinking outside the box about how to deal with them, as war alone won't deal with them.
Well quite. I think it's fair to say our tactic of the last 15 years of bombing the **** out of the place for peace hasn't exactly worked.
Also you have the Shia/Sunni conflicts.
It all started going wrong for Sunni and Shi-ah after the release of their fifth album 'All I ever need is you' in 1971.
Well quite. I think it's fair to say our tactic of the last 15 years of bombing the * out of the place for peace hasn't exactly worked.
Stop this nonsense. The policy is right and fair, it just needs to be more firmly applied.
Therefore we need to bomb even more the * out of them to resolve the issue.
I was promised a free Mint Sauce keyring.
I woz disappoint.
From the west's point of view, we need to find everyone in power who's ever thought "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and beat them with croquet mallets. It's such a central pillar of our foreign policy and it's just obviously utter pish.
Same reason for taking up smoking?
It looks cool.
Black is very slimming
Are the 72 virgins continually replaced after use?
Now that's a very good point.
Though I thought it was 7. Are they having trouble recruiting?
it was the uniform that got me....that and the mint sauce keyring.
IS makes the Jihad come alive.
Are the 72 virgins continually replaced after use?
Anne Widdecome is a virgin - so dwell on 72 of them for a moment
Theres no need for replenishment 'after use' - your 72 virgins are pretty much guaranteed for remain virgins.
@binners, you are on a roll and nice work @macc too 😀
@seaos - yes agreed. It was this excellent interview which lead me to buy the book
From the west's point of view, we need to find everyone in power who's ever thought "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and beat them with croquet mallets. It's such a central pillar of our foreign policy and it's just obviously utter pish.
Northwind, Emma Sky says above that many Iraqi's chose IS as the least bad option, people do that all the time including Western governments. Middle East is ferociously complicated. Remember our parliament voted not to get involved in Syria at an earlier stage when perhaps the outcome might have been different. Its hard to imagine it might have been worse.
Before accepting the deal always think carefully about the sort of person who winds up in the afterlife a virgin.
jambalaya - Member
...Of course for the men its an eternal life with 72 virgins to keep you occupied
The reason they're virgins is because after the martyr explodes, the devirginating part is never found...
What kind of multitool? If it is the crappy free with mag kind then has..But one of those s****y lezyne numbers..Oh now...
Free AK47 and black clothes, who could say no.
Theres no need for replenishment 'after use' - your 72 virgins are pretty much guaranteed for remain virgins.
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[/img]After the dust had settled he was a little surprised to find heaven looked a lot like Games Workshop.
The standard black clothing is very slimming and the beards hide a multitude of sins without coming across as a bit too hipsterish, if they could relax there attitude to bacon and beer I would possibly consider.
On a more serious note, we only see whats shown in the western press, there are probably many reasons why they attract people from around the world, local grievances, local politics, a feeling of alienation in the western word, its what their mates are doing etc.
Why join IS ?
I guess for many it's a case of well I'm gonna die any way at least this way I get a bit of a chance, and for the westerners lets face it capitalism is failing a lot of people right now, bored youth with no hope of any future need work or they end up looking for a purpose to exsist out side the norm.
Free AK47 and black clothes, who could say no.
Anyone heard from chewkw?
72 virgins? That just sounds like an IT department. Who'd want that for eternity?
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That lot spend all their time fantasing about living in a medieval world, wholesale slaughter and taking slaves. Not hard to see the appeal of IS to teenagers.
[i] It's such a central pillar of our foreign policy and it's just obviously utter pish.[/i]
along with the other hoary old chestnut of "shooting brown people until they do what we want/gives us what we want, for free" ?
It's worked for the last 400 years, I can't see it stopping anytime soon.
Right, I'm off to join IS (the Hebden Front) I'm staging a takeover of the capitalist running dogs that is; Penine Cheese and Wine "Join me brothers, in the glorious revolution!!!"
Cheese and wine shop ....FFS another bourgeois revolutionary.... Shakes head plans attack on the pound bakery and witherspoons
Just finished this as a holiday read
Good explanation
Pennine Cheese and Wine? Now there's a cause worth dying for! You can keep your bloody 72 virgins.
I'm wih you comrade!!
*tools up*
I've posted this before, well worth watching 3 mins long. Shows a class being given in Luton to British Muslim women about the benefits of the caliphate.
In France (nr Grenoble) a man has been beheaded and Islamist flag been found at the scene
turkey gearing up to go in.
there are probably many reasons why they attract people from around the world, local grievances, local politics...
If a kid who was born and raised in England of ****stani parents goes to Syria to shoot at Lebanese people...which locality are we talking about?
I've posted this before, well worth watching 3 mins long. Shows a class being given in Luton to British Muslim women about the benefits of the caliphate.In France (nr Grenoble) a man has been beheaded and Islamist flag been found at the scene
And there we have it, one 3 minute video pretty much destroys every article stating "it's not Islam". It is Islam, it's pretty much a reversion to the type of Islam practiced during the Muslim conquests. It's the ideology that is driving ISIS and the desire for conquest.
On the other hand there is the Tunisian builder who threw roof tiles at the beach gunman to stop him, because "as a Muslim" he felt it was the right thing to do.
^^ or rather because some nutter was shooting people. I'm sure his first thought was not "what would Allah do?".
Im sure many of us would have done the same regardless of our belief in ancient books.
^^ or rather because some nutter was shooting people. I'm sure his first thought was not "what would Allah do?".
Possibly, but helping and protecting guests in your home or country, even potentially at great risk to yourself is deeply ingrained in Islamic culture.
The true account made into the 'Lone Survivor' film is the perfect example of this - Afghan villagers took in a wounded US serviceman and protected him against heavily armed Taliban at a massive cost to themselves.
A bit like the Dutch, French, Germans and Norwegians who protected allied servicemen and Jews during the war. It's called empathy or at best looking after your own agenda.
Not sure those villagers wanted either the US or the Taliban on their village green, but saw that the US was preferable to the Taliban..... Perhaps.
Not distracting from what the roof tile thrower did, just saying it is something any one of us would have done regardless of our "religion".
A lot of them died protecting the guy, so it didn't immediately serve their agenda.
Obviously, there are lots of brave, decent, non-religious folk out there, but I think that instinct is reinforced by a strong culture of hospitality in certain countries which is actively encouraged by their religion.
it is not Islam, it is an interpretation of Islam...
All Islam is an interpretation of Islam. All Christianity, too.
It's one of the more pleasant interpretations, I guess.
It probably culturally pre-dates Islam, though - looking at the Lone Survivor stuff again, in this instance the code of honour/hospitality is apparently a Pashtun practice which preceded the arrival of Islam in the region.
^^ or rather because some nutter was shooting people. I'm sure his first thought was not "what would Allah do?".
The point I'm making is not all Muslims are fundamentalists in the way Tom_W1987 is suggesting. There are reactionary nutters in all religions who will apply their own very rigid interpretations to religious writings to support their own agendas.
Eh... That bit in Lone survior with the firefight at the end was made up. The villagers did hide him and Taliban did try & take him from the villagers, but the village elder told them to get tae.
Was it? Lying Hollywood bastards.
The guy did have to flee with his family under threat of death, though. Did he ever get asylum in the US?
Of course not all Muslims are ****s. Not all Christians are ****s, but then again enough of them are that you end up with the likes of the IRA and the shootings in the States.
As I see it, religion is the problem. Being nice to people is easy either with or without religious texts, but it seems there are an awful lot of nasty things done on the basis of what these texts say.
Obviously you'll get nasty people doing nasty things, but I bet you the incidents would be much more isolated and would affect fewer people.
I agree religion is the perfect instrument to set people against one another
but as is the case with the secular (former Iraqi generals?) leadership of IS, they are adept at using religion and sectarian/cultural/racial differences to enable their own quest for power
As I see it, religion is the problem.
It's not religion itself, it's the people. Religion is great, until you let people get involved, as some of them will be dicks, and some of them will end up in positions of power, and then they will be dicks with power.
Then bad stuff happens.
If religion didn't exist, humans would need to find ways to justify the nastiness and encourage the goodness. And I have no doubt they would find them.
The fact that religion, tribal codes and superstition sprung up independently in virtually every part of the globe supports this. It also supports the contention that it is a pile of tosh, naturally.
Much of Western Europe has replaced religion pretty much with a series of unwritten and written codes of moral conduct backed up with a legal system, which increasingly gets involves in even pretty mild instances of poor behaviour. But that's really only happened because the idea of a deity has got a lot less plausible as a means of societal control.
We're still bombing the shit out of innocent people, finding ways to justify it, so who needs a god?
so time for the west/saudi to ally with Hamas?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/30/islamic-state-threatens-hamas-gaza-strip
^^ or rather because some nutter was shooting people. I'm sure his first thought was not "what would Allah do?".Im sure many of us would have done the same regardless of our belief in ancient books.
what about the hotel staff who formed a human shield to protect more tourists from getting killed?
i agree that its simply not a case of "what would Allah do" but a case of doing the right thing...but more often than not we are seeing more vilification of Islam when thing like this happen.
the media is very quick in identifying them by their religion first...the same didnt happen when Anders Brevik went on his rampage, neither did religion come up when reporting on the recent US shootings...had it been a muslim involved though it would have been all over the media that bad people are muslims.
Anders Brevik is an evil nut job who happens to be christian, the guy who killed those churchgoers was the same. the guy who carried out the shooting in tunisia was also an evil nutcase who happened to be muslim.
bad people will do bad things, regardless of their religion.
its just that religion gives them a convenient justification for their evil actions.
by the same token good people will do good things regardless of their religion, however this can be reinforced by their religious upbringing and knowledge whch encourages such good behaviour
bad people will do bad things, regardless of their religion.
its just that religion gives them a convenient justification for their evil actions.
by the same token good people will do good things regardless of their religion, however this can be reinforced by their religious upbringing and knowledge whch encourages such good behaviour
Spot on.
On the other hand, I'd join so long as their website forum was free of obtrusive pop up ads.
Some things are deal-breakers.
Spot on.On the other hand, I'd join so long as their website forum was free of obtrusive pop up ads.
Some things are deal-breakers.
you get a free bandana (ISIS Buff) and a sticker
I really wish people would stop talking about all of this in terms of religion. It just detracts for the real issues.
I really wish people would stop talking about all of this in terms of religion. It just detracts for the real issues.
people talk about it terms of religion because its being spoon fed to them by the media and government.
just look at the comparison between a crime committed by a muslim and a non-muslim. 9 times out of 10 when its reported in the media the word muslim will be inserted first, whereas for a non-muslim there is no reference to their religion.
this is a systematic vilification of an entire religion based on the actions of a twisted minority
we need more people like this lady...
Lets see:
[list][*]wears black
[/*][*]big beard (male)[/*][/list]
Obviously rides a fixie and is into coffee in a BIIIIG way. Freaking hipsters get everywhere!
Apparently we may be offering a free 1 way ticket soon:
Britain should lay on charter flights to take wannabe British jihadists to Syria so they don’t fester here, a former counter-terrorism police chief has suggested.
Just need to arrange for the plane to run out of fuel somewhere over the Atlantic....
🙂
The fact that religion, tribal codes and superstition sprung up independently in virtually every part of the globe supports this. It also supports the contention that it is a pile of tosh, naturally.
Does it? Couldn't it point to genetic memory?
Surely if you repeat an experiment multiple times in complete isolation and get the same result that doesn't mean that all the results are wrong does it? As surely thats the complete opposite of how results are normally assessed!
Well, I wouldn't join. I don't like the taste of their gels.
Its a very serious issue and at times like this I often find it best to ask what would Tony Blair do. Its at this point I reach for a lump hammer and smack myself.
often find it best to ask what would Tony Blair do.
mention God and then invade a foreign country, preferable one full of Arabs?
When did Tony Blair become a Knight of Malta anyhoo?
[img] http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=9679&d=1314961127 [/img]
These religious types don't half get around...
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