Just been looking at the latest alleged culprit.
Has anyone ever worked out the actual stats to see the percentage of sexual predators convicted in each of the main parties?
That’s a pie chart I didn’t think I wanted to see but now I’m waiting to see it.
I don't know the stats, but I can think of some awful examples from other parties.
I thought it was sex in the tories, money in labour.
I suspect that having older boys smack your arse at public school might have a lasting effect on your attitude to power and sex.
Just guessing mind, no one's ever smacked my arse.
Just guessing mind, no one’s ever smacked my arse.
£50?
Ernie has it
Who was it who was discovered with his trousers down and a poppers-laced orange in his mouth? Got to have been a tory surely.
kelvin
Full Member
I don’t know the stats, but I can think of some awful examples from other parties.
Absolutely true of course.
That said, whenever a rumour spreads that an unknown MP might have been upto naughties I suspect most people mentally assume it to be a Tory, until they hear otherwise anyway?
Who was it who was discovered with his trousers down and a poppers-laced orange in his mouth? Got to have been a tory surely
Tory MPs what?
I’ve always presumed Milligan was the model for Julian Fawcett (from Ghosts)…
Whilst I agree with the general premise, yes there are some notables from other parties, some of whom were particularly despicable..
Who was it who was discovered with his trousers down and a poppers-laced orange in his mouth? Got to have been a tory surely.
Are you suggesting that only Tories enjoy a good party?
Stephen Milligan a tory IIRC
Cyril Smith was a Liberal
To be fair Stephen Milligan didn't do anything illegal nor did he harm anyone.
Didn't say he did. Good for him, went out in style. Didn't realise he was brown bread so no disrespect intended.
I had it in my memory that he was found tied up, but alive, on Wimbledon Common or something. I must be getting my MP's mixed up. I shall have to consult my 'Tory Deviants' Top Trumps deck.
As above, public school. Though I reckon by now most Labour MPs probably went too but not to the really posh ones.
Wasn't someone in the cabinet's nickname 'pov' or something because they only went to the 6th best school in the country. David Cameron maybe?
What about Cyril Smith?
He was a Lib Dem.
EDIT: They all p155 in the same pot as far as i'm concerned
Good for him, went out in style.
John Major was PM at the time of his death and he described Stephen Milligan as a "sad" man. His family hit back and said that there was nothing sad about him and that he had in fact been a very happy person.
had it in my memory that he was found tied up, but alive, on Wimbledon Common or something.
There was a senior Labour MP who claimed to have had "a moment of madness" on Clapham Common once, can't remember his name though.
And although he was forced to resign I don't think he was accused of doing anything illegal.
There was a senior Labour MP who claimed to have had “a moment of madness” on Clapham Common once, can’t remember his name though.
And although he was forced to resign I don’t think he was accused of doing anything illegal.
And although he was forced to resign I don’t think he was accused of doing anything illegal.
How times have changed.
Didn't Ron Davies later turn to setting traps across paths to catch cyclists?
But, its definitely not just Tories, its just they try to ride the allegations out in the press.
I hope you're not including anything consenting and legal between people over the age of 18 in "deviant".
The "latest" allegation I think the OP is referring to definitely involves illegal stuff.
I hope you’re not including anything consenting and legal between people over the age of 18 in “deviant”.
Why? I can think of numerous activities that are entirely legal yet fall firmly under the banner of deviant behaviour
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Poor old mr Milligan was clearly a bit of a sexual deviant. That doesn’t make him a bad person however...
Max Mosely wasn't a deviant IMO, tpbiker, a court agreed. How would you qualify his preferences?
I didn't like the guy but I have no problem with how he got his kicks.
And what was deviant about Milligan?
"Milligan's corpse was found naked except for a pair of stockings and suspenders, with an electrical flex tied around his neck, a black bin liner over his head and an orange in his mouth."
I don't know what people do in the privacy of their own home but I suspect that deviates from how most people behave.
If he did it himself that sounds an interesting way to commit suicide, if someone else did it it's illegal.
that deviates from how most people behave.
That's quite telling, and says this thread is about stigmatising people because of their sexual preferences just because they deviate from the norm and I find that more distasteful than whatever they might be doing.
If it's illegal use the appropriate languange; abuse, rape, harrasment, murder, mutilation etc. but if it isn't who are we to judge, categorise and discriminate?
If he did it himself that sounds an interesting way to commit suicide
It wasn't suicide, it was erotic asphyxiation which went wrong. Most people don't need to be naked except for a pair of stockings and suspenders, have an electrical flex tied around their neck, a black bin liner over their head and an orange in their mouth for sexual arousal, I believe.
It's clearly a deviation from the more common ways of sexual arousal. It's for you to decide whether it "stigmatises" people as you put it
Nanny complex.
Probably caned.
Public school education including games of soggy biscuit and drop the soap.
The existance of this thread says it does "stigmatise" and devalue. People like doing all sorts of stuff but if their likes include imaginative ways of enhancing their sex lives people get judgementmental and yes stigamatise some activities.
Mountaineering and skiing result in far more deaths than sexual practices but if you die in an avalache enjoying a bit of powder it won't result in the kind of negative judgement you've made about Milligan. Add the word sex to the mix and it becomes a way of stigmatising, disctriminating, discrediting, devaluing... .
You cited "stockings", what's bad about stockings?
Suspenders are quite useful if you like stockings but not bad on their own.
An orange is a bit big, a clementine might be a better choice.
Bin bag, must be one of the cheapest accessories I've heard of.
It seems to me that what you call deviant is likely to be a lot more amusing/exciting that what you cal the norm, whatever that is.
Public school for three reasons.
1) Being spanked by male teachers who can barely disguise their arousal at the prospect.
2) A general disdain for the other 99% of the population.
3) Chums from school who can make it go away through money, intimidation, legal expertise, media savviness etc.
But the biggest thing is that sense of entitlement that the other 99% exist solely to service your 1%.
I think you will find, if you actually look at realms data, it is not Tory MPs that are normally sexual deviants.
What a nonsense thread digging up all sorts of stereotypes and prejudices 😏
The existance of this thread says it does “stigmatise”
I'm not the original poster but this thread isn't about Stephen Milligan, it just happens that he's got mentioned on this thread.
I believe that the OP had the case of a Tory MP who has been charged with sexual assault on a child in mind.
Although a couple of weeks ago a sex pest Tory MP was suspended from the House despite I believe not having done anything illegal, so perhaps he also had that in mind.
What's bad about stockings you ask, I have no idea Ed, but I'm open to suggestions
Here a good statistic for you …
Most rapists are men.
Let’s start there …
Public school for three reasons.
1) Being spanked by male teachers who can barely disguise their arousal at the prospect.
2) A general disdain for the other 99% of the population.
3) Chums from school who can make it go away through money, intimidation, legal expertise, media savviness etc.
But the biggest thing is that sense of entitlement that the other 99% exist solely to service your 1%.
Been there, done it. And you're wrong, at least in part.
(1) doesn't happen. That's just your feverish imagination, but enjoy your fantasies.
(2), definitely. You're reminded regularly that you're part of the top 5% of the population, the elite.
(3) no, not really. No more than any other area. If you go for an interview and the person interviewing you knows your mate, you'll use it. Whether it's for a job in a bank or the garage next door.
But the biggest thing is that sense of entitlement that the other 99% exist solely to service your 1%.
Finally. This. 100%. It's an ingrained L'Oreal sense of "you're worth it". They train you for command. That you Deserve It. It's not so much "service" as You Will Lead. You are a Leader.
To be honest, yes, I just thought point 1 was funny.
In terms of 'proper' public schools (Eton, Harrow, Winchester, Rugby etc), I knocked around with some serious jazz hats from those places in University cricket. The ingrained sense of entitlement was tangible.
One particular lad, from Eton, had absolutely no concept of 'ordinary people'. None whatsoever. And no desire to find out. He wasn't a bad lad, but I can't help but hope he did discover the other 99% at some point, even if it involved him getting a hiding in the process.
Friends in high places, shouldn't be underestimated, though.
Edukator
Free Member
I hope you’re not including anything consenting and legal between people over the age of 18 in “deviant”.
To be crystal clear here, if sexual acts are between 2 (or far more) consenting adults without crimes being committed I don't even consider that in the same dictionary as "deviant". I am most definitely not a prude nore to I care how people get their kicks as long as it's a level playing field for all those concerned.
As mentioned by someone, the current MP in the news, if guilty, would definitely be considered to be exhibiting deviant behaviour though. Or worse. For the context of this thread I will say that you could substitute "illegal" for "deviant" and if I could edit the title to that effect i would.
That’s quite telling, and says this thread is about stigmatising people because of their sexual preferences
Hold on one minute there. You have absolutely no idea how utterly wrong you are in that assertion. I can't speak for others of course or I would be attempting to do exactly what you are with your assertions.
Hope that clears things up.
Stephen Milligan was just enjoying some harmless (if unsafe) "personal time". Pity they don't put out public health commercials after hours about it really, he's certainly not the only poor soul to have met his end that way.
Now who. Was. The balding politico who hired people (?men?) to poo on top of a glass coffee table while he watched from underneath, **and blamed it on the turmoil of his hair loss**?
What I want to know is who cleaned it up later and how. And was it his own coffee table, in which case I imagine the rest of the household were not best pleased when they found out ..
That’s quite telling, and says this thread is about stigmatising people because of their sexual preferences just because they deviate from the norm and I find that more distasteful than whatever they might be doing.
I don’t think it does that at all. In case of Milligan he clearly had sexual tastes that deviate from societies norm by a fair margin. I have absolutely no issue with that however, I don’t think anyone on here has. Fair play to the lad if that’s what he got off on I say. No one is trying to stigmatise him.
To go back to the OP’s question, could the reason simply be that there are more Tory MPs?
Now who. Was. The balding politico who hired people (?men?) to poo on top of a glass coffee table while he watched from underneath, **and blamed it on the turmoil of his hair loss**?
To be honest I have wondered why the OP chose the username poopscoop, it suggests to me somewhat deviant behaviour.
Fair play to the lad if that’s what he got off on I say. No one is trying to stigmatise him.
Yup, I very much agree that. But I would say that the whole erotic asphyxiation extravaganza thing, with stockings and suspenders and bin liners and oranges sounds like a very long and complicated way to get sexually aroused, for most people there are much simpler and easier ways.
I am certainly no expert on these matters but if someone needs to go through all that just to get sexually aroused then to me it suggests that there might some underlying issues which might need to be addressed with a skilled professional, especially if there are some dark childhood demons.
Of course I might be missing something and it might just be a great way to spend an otherwise boring afternoon. I have no idea.
Now who. Was. The balding politico who hired people (?men?) to poo on top of a glass coffee table while he watched from underneath, **and blamed it on the turmoil of his hair loss**?
I think that was Mark Oaten who was in the running for the LibDem leadership.
The first scene of Peter Barnes's very fine play, the Ruling Class, features the 13th Earl of Gurney dying as a result of a erotic asphyxiation mishap.
An assumption that it’s always the Tories probs speaks more about the OP tbh.
All parties have the same sorry history when it comes to illegality/sex scandals/money etc
It may be because the people who abuse (sexually, monetary, other stuff) are the type of people who are drawn to become an MP for the sense of power it gives them.
I would say traditionally the people that would become a Tory MP are more in that camp but these days not so sure.
The Green party are the only party where I look at them (yes I know, don't judge by looks) and think they are actually in it for the right reasons.
I think the use of the words "deviant" is unwise. It has come to mean the same thing as "perverse" in some people's minds.
If consenting adults choose to do it surely it's just "different"? As opposed to the offences that the OP is referring to are simply illegal, though in the interests of fairness, he is innocent until proven guilty.
It's a shame it's become seen as a public school Tory thing. "It's just the way they are, nudge nudge, wink wink" is a slippery slope to start excusing their more damaging and corrupt habits. Making it a class or Tory thing reveals people's own perceptions and prejudices far more.
I have several privately educated friends, and know a few current private educated kids through my own kids and their youth groups.
While they may be a out of touch with some aspects of "normal" lives when they are young, and have sometimes undeserved levels of self-confidence, exposure to the real world soon knocks it out of them. The problem is when their life and career paths don't give them that exposure.
Sad to see this amusing thread has become bogged down in accusations of social justice language violations overnight.
Now who. Was. The balding politico who hired people (?men?) to poo on top of a glass coffee table while he watched from underneath, **and blamed it on the turmoil of his hair loss**?
Ah brilliant, back on track!
Now who. Was. The balding politico who hired people (?men?) to poo on top of a glass coffee table while he watched from underneath
No idea but I'm sure I remember Noddy Holder saying he'd been paid to do that before famous...Bostin our kid
Ridiculous as the terminology might sound I think there is probably a huge difference between someone who has merely been privately educated and someone who went to a public school.
I suspect that somewhere like Eton deeply effects an individual's personality. Which isn't necessarily a critism btw but an observation, I'm sure the quality of education is excellent and much of what they take away from Eton equips them for life.
Of course I went to an inner city state comprehensive so my remarks are based on perceptions rather than experience.
It’s clearly a deviation from the more common ways of sexual arousal. It’s for you to decide whether it “stigmatises” people as you put it
Not really. The noun ‘deviant’ is most often defined differently than the adjective. To label someone a ‘deviant’ is more loaded than saying ‘your behaviour is a deviation from the common…’
Collins English:
Deviant
2. COUNTABLE NOUN
A deviant is someone whose behaviour or beliefs are different from what people normally consider to be acceptable.
Synonyms: misfit, odd type, pervert, freak
Oxford Language:
noun
noun: deviant; plural noun: deviants
a deviant person or thing.
"killers, deviants, and those whose actions are beyond most human comprehension"
Merriam Webster:
Definition of deviant (Entry 2 of 2)
: someone or something that deviates from a norm
especially : a person who differs markedly (as in social adjustment or behavior) from what is considered normal or acceptable
social/moral/sexual deviants
Those who commit crimes also watch TV, go to the grocery store, and have their hair cut. Thus, while our stereotypes may suggest that there is a wide gulf between deviants and conventional people …, the behavior of deviants is often very conventional.
— Paul C. Higgins and Richard R. Butler
The theory thus centers on the question: What are the processes through which people are assigned a social identity as deviants by others and enter upon ongoing careers as deviants?
— Mary Beth Norton et al.
Acts of punishment thus designate who is in our community by clearly defining who is not in our community. Social solidarity is purchased through the punishment of deviants.
— Mark Colvin
Vocabulary.com:
noun a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior
thesaurus.net gives the following synonyms for the noun ‘deviant’:
n.
• wicked, evil, wrong, gross.
lexico.com (powered by Oxford English) exemplarise both the adjective and noun as offensive terms:
Deviant
ADJECTIVE
1 Departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour.
‘deviant behaviour’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1offensive Homosexual (typically used of a man).
NOUN
A deviant person or thing.
‘killers, deviants, and those whose actions are beyond most human comprehension’
So just a heads up if branding someone a ‘deviant’
Ernie - I am sure I have read research on the emotional damage schools like Eton do to the pupils
Mate of mine went on a stag weekend in Amsterdam years ago.
The groom and best man get chatting to two local girls and end up leaving early to go back to the hotel with them.
The next morning at breakfast the groom and best man don't show up despite knocking on the door. Lads were thinking it must've been a big night and they need to sleep it off.
At lunchtime there is still no sign nor sound of them. Worried the lads ask reception if they can open the door.
The staff obliged, opened the door and the lads find the groom and best man each tied naked to a bed, a gag in each of their mouths and a pile of shit on their chests. Anything of any value was gone including shoes and clothes.
Sad to see this amusing thread
To be fair there is nothing remotely amusing concerning the reason the OP started with thread, he had in mind serious allegations of sexual assault against a child.
The thread however did take a more light-hearted turn when it started discussing bizarre sexual activity.
Ernie – I am sure I have read research on the emotional damage schools like Eton do to the pupils
I am sure that dispatching a young child to a boarding school away their parents, especially if they don't come home for weeks/months, has the potential to do great and lasting harm.
I am sure it makes men out of them though.
The question is what sort of men.
Deviant men?
I went to boarding school for years, I think I'm ok, I'd ask the Mrs but she's a bit tied up at the mo.
Maybe it is the "Lance Armstrong" principle, ie if you are a bullying psychopath then it is more likely that your indiscretions are exposed.
As such, his government doesn't represent "modern Great Britain," as Johnson has claimed, but an archaic system that teaches those who belong to it that they are destined for the kind of greatness that others cannot reach. It is a system that teaches the preservation and exercise of power, but it also one in which the shrewd and cunning, but not necessarily the best, rise to the top. In its eagerness to produce a ruling elite, the system has also done lasting damage to the psyches of many of the children who have passed through it. And many view the boys' school of Eton College as perhaps the most representative example of this system.
Sad to see this amusing thread has become bogged down in accusations of social justice language violations overnight.
Yeah we should just be free to rip the piss out of anyone different to us.
Who was ripping the piss? Just admiring life's wondrous variety. And what do you mean 'us'? We're all different. Tbh, I kind of see the word 'deviant' as a badge of honour. But if saying it is going to cause distress and offence then I won't use it. I'll still think it though. Can't stop that funsponges! Yet.
pictonroad
Full MemberI went to boarding school for years, I think I’m ok, I’d ask the Mrs but she’s a bit tied up at the mo.
Lolz
There is no doubt that the toffs and their boarding school system does a great job of turning out significant numbers of men who are emotional cripples. Johnson is a classic example.
There is no doubt that the toffs and their boarding school system does a great job of turning out significant numbers of men who are emotional cripples.
What does that say about Edinburgh then?
https://www.scotsman.com/education/pupil-numbers-scots-private-schools-hold-steady-1560169
Nearly 1 in 4 privately educated
"privately educated" doesn't mean the same as the "boarding school system" which TJ referred to.
You have to assume that boarders don't necessarily attend schools in localities where their parents live.
I have no idea how many boarding schools are in Edinburgh but presumably when they have finished their schooling the emotional cripples, which TJ referred to, return to live in various parts of the UK
@TJagain - yup, i have a long standing friend who boarded at a school in Berks. His parents were apparently open about why they divided the family (his sister was sent to an all girls school) and, would you believe it, it was to go to sailing as having the kids meant that they couldn't!!!
Now on the face it, you'd think he had it all. Great education, wealthy family, well spoken, knows the intricacies of how the upper class work, plenty of city contacts etc.... the reality is quite different. Still now in his 40's he feels he's never good enough for a relationship because the way his parents behaved, struggles in relationships, suffers from self destructive behaviour because of the inferiority complex he had forced on him, bullying at school (some of it perverted when the dorm lights went out!).... Quite a mixed up fella really, but a really nice guy. I can understand why deviant behaviour seems to come out of those systems more than a 'normal' schooling.
Funnily enough I was on a club gravel ride today and whilst thinking about this thread as I was cycling I asked the ride leader whether he knew anyone who had been to public school, I thought being pretty posh he might do.
To my surprise he responded by telling me that he had. His father was army officer so he was sent to boarding school.
Despite our obvious class and educational differences me and him have always got on exceptionally well, I very much consider him to be a top bloke.
Although his poshness was originally a source suspicion for me we very quickly struck up a strong friendship discussing politics - he was concerned about the effect of brexit on skiing opportunities for Brits, he was interested in my opposition to the EU.
I would describe him as middle-class liberal with a strong dislike for right-wing Tories.
He told me today, after I asked the question, that when he left boarding school and went to university he lacked certain social skills and came across as arrogant. He said he had to learn new social skills including how to strike up friendships with girls.
Edit : Oh he also said that he very much enjoyed his time at boarding school, which I guess helps to explain why in his case he hasn't ended up as an emotional cripple. He did say though that the sense of superiority which was instilled in them did make him at least appear to be arrogant
I'd agree, it appears to be the majority tory who end up in court over sexual impropriety.
Edit : Oh he also said that he very much enjoyed his time at boarding school, which I guess helps to explain why in his case he hasn’t ended up as an emotional cripple. He did say though that the sense of superiority which was instilled in them did make him at least appear to be arrogant
He couldn't possibly have, see all the posts above.
I think it's a bit self selecting, my privately educated/boarding school friends are all pretty normal* or they wouldn't be my friends. Any posh arrogant ****s tend to fail my friendship criteria. As do poor arrogant ****s.
*to be fair, I've never checked if they have weird sexual tendencies
Who was ripping the piss?
You. What else would you call taking amusement from someone else's personal affairs?
OMG he did bondage, what a hoot, lolz!
Grow up. People who do things they enjoy with other consenting adults don't do so for others entertainment. Generally. Sitting here kink shaming folk just makes you look like a dick.
OMG he did bondage
Who did bondage? I missed that one.
Alexi Sayle already had this figured out
I'll remember this thread next time we have an argument over who is the most working class.
It never occurred to me that there was a correlation between working class -> posh and boring -> interesting in bed 🤣 but some of you seem determined that there muat be one.
....next time we have an argument over who is the most working class.
I miss all the best arguments on STW 🙁
Sounds like that must have been an interesting thread
..........well I merely have my labour to sell...............
I miss all the best arguments on STW 🙁
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cleaners-2
Included such gems as:
I just don’t think I could get a cleaner….
I’d feel I was abandoning my roots somehow, that working class pride in having worn out, but immaculately shined shoes, the satisfaction in perfectly streak free windows.
says this thread is about stigmatising people because of their sexual preferences just because they deviate from the norm
TBF it seems like this thread is more about stigmatising people because they're Tory MPs.
Entitlement.
