[Closed] Why is everything skint?

Because the UK is in the finishing straight of a race to the bottom which has been running for about 25 years.

Upwards distribution innit?

the top 5% now own 99.5% of everything

Late Stage Capitalism - from where I'm sat it looks terminal.

All explained quite well in this film if you have an hour to spare.

The state is too big. Get rid of half of it, and as-if-by-magic, not skint.

Reality biting that the UK is not as wealthy as we project. We have kept our economic position by not investing in inforstructure so in many ways have just been bodging and living with sticky plasters. In essence running down / spending our inforstructure reserves.

The money that other countries spend on investing in their self over the past 20 - 30 years has gone into tax break to keep people sweet. But now due to bad inforstructure and bad head in the sand attitude we are not productive enough to keep tax income up to service public spending with out either selling the family silver or increasing taxes significantly or both.

Now we have terrible productivity and the national phycology refuses to except the need for improvement but keep looking back to the good old days.

Because we have a short sighted electorate who wouldn’t vote for any party that promised to raise their taxes.

This isn't skint, wait till 5-10 years after brexit then we'll talk about skint.

People expect sometbing for nothing, the entitled generation are coming to retirement and dont like paying for what they use.

Austerity - Gideon and Dave went at the council budgets in 2010 the first thing they did. Police was chopped, NHS had below-inflation 'rises' that are cuts, privitisation of care services,

"The state is too big. Get rid of half of it, and as-if-by-magic, not skint" this is patently a load of bull - government decided it suddenly wasn't too skint to pay for HS1 and HS2, the Garden Bridge, A Billion to the DUP, the operational cost of Brexit, Crossrail 1 and 2, bailout of VirginStagecoach that is on the cards...

I agree with this:

"The money that other countries spend on investing in their self over the past 20 – 30 years has gone into tax break to keep people sweet. But now due to bad infrastructure and bad head in the sand attitude we are not productive enough to keep tax income up to service public spending with out either selling the family silver or increasing taxes significantly or both."

We've done all we can to generate wealth by adopting a very light touch to taxation and regulation. It's been easier to hack and slash behind the scenes, blame the lack of infrastructure spending on brown people and the poor and hand back billions of pounds of tax breaks to corporations, who seem free to dodge taxes. Even the UN recognises the scale of the problem.

Which brings me to Binners:

"Upwards distribution innit?

I completely agree with this. If you create a money fountain, where the top is diverted to the Virgin Islands, Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man and Bermuda then money is vacuumed out of people's pockets and ends up in a tax haven. No tax = no investment.

And this:

the top 5% now own 99.5% of everything"

Then there's this:

"The state is too big. Get rid of half of it, and as-if-by-magic, not skint."

What do we slash next? The state is cut back to the bone to the point of dysfunction, better to ensure that taxes are collected instead of treating taxation as a lifestyle choice.

1 , Tories

2, Austerity

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Local Council, NHS & Police - austerity. The Gov have worked very hard to avoid any public announcements of cuts that make a decent headline, but be assured they're having funding cut to the bone.

People - they're not really, unemployment is at a record low and interest rates are near zero, wages are flat and inflation isn't zero so incomes are going down slightly, but mostly it's a lack of confidence.

I'd argue that this isn't unusable, but it's not the same as the long boom between the late 90s to the late 00s we got used to. The UK isn't a country where everyone can be comfortable and 'middle class' - it was an illusion that we could all spend, spend spend and not have to worry about running out of money. We've relearned the link between income and expenditure and are thinking before we spend now. This is the new normal.

The (relatively) recent trend that we're spending loads of money with mega-corporations like Amazon, Apple, Starbucks, etc which is being sent abroad rather than staying in the UK (and having taxes paid on it) can't be helping matters.

There's plenty of money, people are just daft enough to believe there isn't any.

We (well the Tories) have chosen to not fund the Welfare State properly any more. It's a political choice, branded as 'Austerity', falsely marketed as an economic necessity. UK PLC could easily afford to fund it better, it has just chosen not to.

Once we rediscover the buccaneering spirit of empire everything will be fine.

If you want an explanation for whats been happening in our economy since the banking crash then read this. Dave and Gideon took it as a blueprint, and May and chums are just continuing their work

When the economy tanks post-Brexit then expect to hear "we have no option but to...." followed by a renewed assault on the post-war settlement, and a scorched earth approach to public services. its why Mogg and co want a hard Brexit

Labour = left wing (usually) = want to spend money on lots public services.

Tories = right wing = want to have fewer public services, let people keep their money and pay for stuff themselves.

We've had hardcore Toryism from Thatcher onwards punctuated by a bit of slightly less hardcore Toryism under Blair.  So public services have been squeezed and squeezed til they are at breaking point.

Now I don't like this, because it means the poor who depend on the services get ****ed, and the rich who would've paid for most of them just get even richer.  The difference is rich people don't NEED to be even richer, but poor people really do need the services.

Oooh I seen this on the side of a bus, it’s because we send £350m a week to the EU or immigrants one of those.

People expect sometbing for nothing, the entitled generation are coming to retirement and dont like paying for what they use.

I will take that as a generalization.

Because we are a low tax low wage low regulation economy under the tories.

Taxes need to be increased significantly - and on income not spending to get to the level of the rest of europe

We’ve had hardcore Toryism from Thatcher onwards punctuated by a bit of slightly less hardcore Toryism under Blair. So public services have been squeezed and squeezed til they are at breaking point.

They haven't been squeezed at all. They've been expanded massively but the funding has lagged slightly behind the expansion.

Reduce state services to the level of pre-Thatcher and you'd find we'd be awash with cash.

Tax reform is something that this country desparately needs but no-one has the balls or brains to do it - Ironically Gideon and Dave talked about it at the start of their govt but didn't do it, probably a good thing because they would have screwed it up

as for offshore havens, you can't do this on your own, you need to club together with other nations to tackle it all at the same time, like ooh a trading bloc that you're a member of...

They’ve been expanded massively but the funding has lagged slightly behind the expansion.

Really?

So explain the OP then.  Why is almost everything underfunded and on its knees?

Utter nonsense 5th

Massive cuts in all public services not helped by tory money wasting in the NHS england with the fake internal market - that has tripled admin costs from under 10% of budget to well over 20%

Less staff being paid less in real terms.  thats the facts.

>Reduce state services to the level of pre-Thatcher and you’d find we’d be awash with cash.

Country is richer, has more people and an older population, so you'd expect to be spending more.

Why is almost everything underfunded and on its knees?

The NHS offers more services and has to treat more people, yes.

So why isn't it properly funded?

[i]Because we have a short sighted electorate who wouldn’t vote for any party that promised to raise their taxes.[/i]

Tru'dat

5thElefant

They haven’t been squeezed at all. They’ve been expanded massively but the funding has lagged slightly behind the expansion.

Utter deluded BS.

You spend much time in hospitals or dealing with the utterly broken mental health services/social care?

I do and take it from me Tory policies are killing people and destroying countless other people's lives.

If we were a third world country the UN would be discussing sanctions. You are witnessing a very British genocide of the poor, the infirm and the mentally ill.

Your obviously so indoctrinated you are beyond hope though.

Go volunteer at a local food bank for a day. Then come back to this thread.

>Utter deluded BS

Nope he's correct. Spending has increased, just not by enough to match demand, as a result of which some services have suffered pretty badly.

As a % of GDP it's been falling though ie we're spending more £ but being less generous.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/21664/economics/nhs-spending-cuts/

NHS spending as a % of GDP has been cut for the last 30 years bar a increase during the Blair years that hardly made up for the damage. Plot that graph against inflation and you see a very different story.

in 1970 almost all long term care of the elderly was either NHS or local authority, now its almost none.  thats a massive amount of care privatised at great cost both inmoney terms and more importantly in welfare terms

We are one of the lowest taxed countries in the west.  Want good public services then tax more - like the netherlands, Germany, Sweden etc.

The myth of no money is just that - a myth.  7th richest country in the world but undertaxing and under funding leads to poor services.  Ad to that an incredbly lax taxation system that allows people and corporations to avoid and evade tax.

So you genuinely believe the NHS has funding that is just "lagging slightly behind" what it really needs?

Seriously?

Don't tell me about graphs, tell me about real life experiences you have of these services.

Over worked understaffed doctors and nurses.

60,000 marching through London. Not for better wages but to save the actual NHS itself.

Deaths resulting from an utterly destroyed mental health system.

Social care that really just exists in name only.

It just goes on and on.

If that is was these services are like with funding just "lagging slightly behind" then God help us in the years to come.

It's not called an NHS crisis for no reason.

Please don't try to say it just lacks a little money and there is nothing to be concerned with.

Graphs don't tell the human story, the misery of these cuts.

Don’t tell me about graphs, tell me about real life experiences you have of these services.

No lets stick to evidence based poicy making, the reason things never get sorted is because of this nonsense around selectively taking one or two peoples view.

The UK is hardly skint, even a slightly worse NHS now, is still massively better than before. Just take cancer survival rates they've doubled over 40 years.

Is everything now brilliant of course not, but if you compare where we are now post the finincial crash to how the UK did following the 1929 crash then things really aren't that bad. Far too much moaning and being completely myopic about what's bad, instead of working towards improvments.

Why is everything skint? As someone said above it is late stage capitalism. We value short term profit above long term investment. We value capital above people too often. We allow corporations to privatise profit and socialise losses or costs. If J G Ballard came back to lifl know he would think he was in one of his own dystopian novels.

dragon

No lets stick to evidence based poicy making, the reason things never get sorted is because of this nonsense around selectively taking one or two peoples view.

Love your work.

How you ignore the thousands that marched through London. The people directly on the front line.

Moaning minnies I suppose dragon?

Just the normal rhetoric from your "type" I'm afraid. As long as your alright though Jack. Sorry, Dragon.

Glad you point out we are better off than in 1929.

What a boast... 😒

Life now. Forum doesnt like Swiftkey

Life now. Forum doesnt like Swiftkey

Oh yes, found that out.

Zwift key works much better though. Auto correct isn't 100%.

Sorry for off topic op.

Here's an alternative to the relentless drive for efficiency:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/31/preston-hit-rock-bottom-took-back-control

Think of it as a HUGE pyramid scheme.

The majority (general population) of people are given just enough to keep them sweet and promised (but never actually given) just enough to stop them asking awkward questions. The few "at the bottom" (the really poor people) get nothing, but it doesn't matter because no one follows them on Twitter. And the wealthy of the country are in on the scam and happy as sandmen.

Like all pyramid schemes, there must be a day of judgement 🙂

Our tax system lets too many "businesses" pay FA tax.

The wealth has been sucked out of the UK by the non-dom billionaires who own our media and use it to encourage idiots to vote for their tame politicians.

OT I haven't heard "happy as sandmen" for a very long time!

🙂

I actually think we are just a bit thick, or at least uneducated, so much so that we’ll( enough of us to matter) believe any old bollox that gets printed in the Sun.

I’m fairly certain running a country is pretty simple, as a last resort you could just copy Germany/Scando countries and bingo youre doing ok.

The result of our own stupidity is a choice of  Eaton fags and angry Comp six formers as politicians pursuing their own ideology rather than the logical solutions.

Tax havens for example, why do they exist, what is the point in the Isle of Man allowing holding companies to set up and pay no tax?

A further consequence of the post-war baby boomers is a huge demographic approaching retirement in the next 5-15 years - as much as 40% of the UK population will reach retirement, become economically inactive and put huge strain or health and social care.  The current generation of retirees benefitted from gold-plated pensions, index-linked and protected - however the taxes they contributed were spent a long time ago - but the costs of their pensions and healthcare are being paid by today's taxpayer, particularly where successive Governments and employers were permitted to go 'on holiday' from making contributions - the costs of those liabilities will be met in many cases by the State from the exchequer.

High employment levels for a significant are in minimum-wage jobs like retail and hospitality, which can only exist because they're funded by tax credits and allow their employers to trouser billions and offshore their profits.

We still suffer a productivity problem compared to our peers - working low-wage workers harders isn't going to address a structural problem in under-investment whilst corporations run public services and put dividends ahead of investment

Add Brexit  into the mix and we're screwed.....

I’m neither a socialist, or capitalist. I really do despair with our current situation. The last election showed the immaturity of the electorate. May decided it was a good time to try a few Home truths, we can’t afford the triple lock etc, whereas Jeremy promised students a load of imaginary money. Guess who we went for?

our national debt is huge & growing

public services are crippled by PFI debt

Brexit is going to hammer the economy even more

Nobody wants to pay for anything. We all want “cheap”

Ageing population, medical advances and disgraceful practices wrt drug charges swallowing the NHS budget.

The reality is we probably all need to pay 10% higher tax, and wages need to rise by 10%. Chances if either? Nil. We will kick the can down the road in the name of re-election.