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There are lots of things not right in the world. Pet ownership is way down the list of problems.
Oh, don't mistake my musings for anger or anything. As a family, we always had a dog. I'll always stop to talk to dogs I see when I'm out riding (one of my mates calls me the Dog Whisperer as they seem to instinctively come to me). And I know all about horses. My daughter owns one of the moneypits.😭
I can't quite believe I'm typing this but, what dazh said.
It seems frankly bizarre to me that someone would object to cats killing birds and then pop over to KFC for a bargain bucket. Y'all know where your food comes from, right?
For me,the MOST shocking thing in this thread,is that Binners has a turbo trainer.
“has” and “uses” are not synonyms. 😁
@Cougar - you saved me making that very point 😀
Just to be clear I have owned or co-owned 4 cats 4 dogs and one Shetland pony. The last one being very good looking and very crabbit.
I’ve never understood the outrage caused by cats shitting in gardens. Presumably those bothered about this are also outraged at badgers, birds, foxes and other wild animals doing the same?
I presume then you'd be fine if my dog shat in your garden then?
Cats are semi-wild. It’s what makes them so appealing, you get the companionship of a domesticated pet,
without the high maintainence dependency of a dogwhilst being able to claim some sort of Get Out Of Jail Free card for behaviour that isn't acceptable, but ooh, isn't it fluffy and cute
And I can't quite believe I'm saying this, but Cougar man, you're normally one of the bastions of cool calm logic, but the wild-bird killing/KFC analogy is absolutely nonsense, you must know that.
We had families of squirrels, hedgehogs and rabbits in our garden, not to mention the number of birds nests. 2 years ago new neighbours moved in, bringing their 3 cats. Now we have no squirrels, hedgehogs or rabbits and very few birds. Last weekend one of the cats ran off with a baby blackbird in its mouth 🙁
And it’s the cats that make them
I thought it was the lizards? 🤔
Survival of the fittest!
Cats will ultimately cause birds to become bigger and stronger. Small mammals will become poisonous.
Basically it will be like living in Australia 😉
Anyone whining about domestic cats and the wild bird population that isn't out demanding drastic action is taken on habitat destruction is a whiny little fool.
There has been a 70% decline in ALL wild animals globally since 1970. That's not cats. That's humans.
Maybe have less kids?
I really like the story of how cats became domesticated, or should I say, learned to live alongside humans.
Survival of the fittest!
In the case of one of my cats, its survival of the fattest.
The local bird population have nothing to worry about with him, as catching one would involve him leaving the sofa and theres not much chance of that happening
I presume then you’d be fine if my dog shat in your garden then?
If that happened it would be because you'd allowed your dog to roam free unsupervised. By any measure that's a lot more unacceptable than a cat doing so and I'd be much more bothered about your dog from a public safety aspect than where it does it's business. And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit. At least cats try to hide or bury it, where dogs seem to like to do it in the most obvious and open places. Put it this way, I've never seen a cat shit in the middle of a pavement.
If that happened it would be because you’d allowed your dog to roam free unsupervised. By any measure that’s a lot more unacceptable than a cat doing so and I’d be much more bothered about your dog from a public safety aspect than where it does it’s business. And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit. At least cats try to hide or bury it, where dogs seem to like to do it in the most obvious and open places. Put it this way, I’ve never seen a cat shit in the middle of a pavement.
I mean, if you can't see this for the cock-eyed, logical mess that it is, I can't be bothered.
And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit.
Oh bugger off Daz. It is still shit.
Cat shit in the garden is a menace. Far worse than hedgehog, owl or frog shit.
It was worse when the kids were small and got it on them, but it is still pretty unpleasant when you get it on your hands whilst gardening.
One would assume that a) you have a cat and b) couldn't care less where it craps.
And I can’t quite believe I’m saying this, but Cougar man, you’re normally one of the bastions of cool calm logic, but the wild-bird killing/KFC analogy is absolutely nonsense, you must know that.
Why? What's the objection? Unpick it.
The daughter waking to find a sleeping cat on her bed, I guess that could be scary. If it was prowling around and she didn't realise know what it was then that could be terrifying.
The daughter waking to find a dead bird on her bed, that'd freak me the **** out, but that's why I've been a vegetarian all my adult life. Would an omnivore not go "them's good eatin'" and get their kindly gifted pigeon into the frying pan whilst using it as a teaching opportunity to show the child where their chicken nuggets come from?
Or is "wild" the issue? It's OK to kill creatures we've bred specifically to be killed but taking out wild animals is problematic? There's plenty of fish, deer, wild boar, rabbits etc etc that might object to that reasoning. And following this logic presumably it'd be perfectly acceptable to raise dogs and horses solely for the food chain.
Or is it OK when we kill things but problematic when we get a pet which does it? Probably a good job we haven't been breeding hunting dogs for millennia, then.
Or maybe, just maybe, perhaps people squealing about cats decimating local wildlife whilst shoving a lamb bhuna down their gullets are just massive hypocrites.
I was of course being deliberately provocative in drawing a parallel between us - well, most of you lot - eating KFC and a cat eating a bird. But the point was that I wanted people to stop and think. That line is ill-defined as soon as you hold it up to any degree of scrutiny and it will be in different places for different people (and potentially wildly different in different cultures). Your moral code will be different from mine, different from the Muslims mentioned in the article above who believe that cats are holy and dogs are dirty, different from far-flung corners of the globe who happily chow down on rat-on-a-stick (maybe).
I thought it was the lizards? 🤔
The cats killed all the lizards!
Well 650 million each year at least
Cat shit in the garden is a menace. Far worse than hedgehog, owl or frog shit.
My favourite part of looking at the garden in the morning before opening the doors for the kids to head out is playing 'leaf or cat shit?'.
By any measure that’s a lot more unacceptable than a cat doing so and I’d be much more bothered about your dog from a public safety aspect than where it does it’s business.
Indeed. A free-roaming domesticated dog is likely more of a danger to itself than a free-roaming cat is.
And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit.
Less true. You might want to google Toxoplasmosis.
Shit is a waste product, it's unpleasant by nature. You might put horse muck on your roses but I doubt even Gwyneth Paltrow would be bringing out a range of scented candles.
And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit.
But the point is that cats will crap in whatever place they are when they need to go – if that happens to be a neighbour's garden then they will crap there. Our dog only ever craps in our garden (and occasionally at the in-laws) or on walks – where I always pick up. It has never climbed a fence and crapped in a neighbour's garden.
All I know is that I run over dog shit significantly more than I run over cat shit when out on the bike. I don't think I've ever run over cat shit.
Why? What’s the objection? Unpick it.
The objection is that cats are, obviously, predators and when they are let out they do what they do, i.e. predate. In the wild the numbers of predators is limited by the amount of food available, but the cats are going to get food anyway so the prey numbers get absolutely battered without the 'natural' checks and balances.
Pulling the KFC and humans thoughtlessly eating meat thing into it is a false equivalence.
Indeed. A free-roaming domesticated dog is likely more of a danger to itself than a free-roaming cat is.
If I bring my dog on a lead, can it crap in your garden?
At least cats try to hide or bury it,
I was reading about this a little while ago. It's a territorial thing.
Cats will generally bury their poo. They don't want to leave evidence that they've been there, for their own protection from predators. But a dominant cat will use it as a way of going "this is mine." So if you're getting prominent cat poo in your garden there's a good chance that it's there to keep all the other cats out.
I've seen this play out in my own home. We have three indoor cats and three litter trays (the vets recommend n+1 trays, but anyway). It took a while to settle down but once they'd established between themselves whose was whose there was a marked uptick in the degree of burying.
Top tip for stopping another persons cat from crapping on your lawn....
Put some treats down for it.
some sort of primal desire they can’t shake off,
bit like sex, or riding your bike from your car and back to your car again!...
The objection is that cats are, obviously, predators and when they are let out they do what they do, i.e. predate. In the wild the numbers of predators is limited by the amount of food available, but the cats are going to get food anyway so the prey numbers get absolutely battered without the ‘natural’ checks and balances.
Pulling the KFC and humans thoughtlessly eating meat thing into it is a false equivalence.
Alternatively,
"The objection is that humans are, obviously, predators and when they are let out they do what they do, i.e. predate. In the wild the numbers of predators is limited by the amount of food available, but the humans are going to get food anyway so the prey numbers get absolutely battered without the ‘natural’ checks and balances."
False equivalence? Come on, we're the single most effective predator on the planet. Go jump on Facebook and post a meme about vegans, you'll be up to your tits in minutes with overly defensive meat-eaters boasting about it. Nature, teeth, digestive systems, depth perception...
(in any case, the stats reported on this very thread don't back up the 'battering' you're claiming.)
If I bring my dog on a lead, can it crap in your garden?
You wouldn't be the first.
You wouldn’t be the first.
Lucky for you then that you're fine with it then.
Honestly though, internet snipeyness aside, we all have our rationality blindspots, and I genuinely think this is yours.
You might put horse muck on your roses but I doubt even Gwyneth Paltrow would be bringing out a range of scented candles.
I wouldn't want to bet my own money on that.
Cats are ace, its people I hate with a passion
our 3 rescues have a catio, are house cats and get walked on harnesses, they are also prolific hunters of paper ball, hair bobbles and o-rings from my garmin mounts
As a stealth request for photos of other people's cats, this thread has really hit the target.
I'm a bit lost, are we supposed to be feeding our cats KFC now?
Will that prevent them behaving like the ****ers they are?
My cat shits in my garden. Well he buries it sometimes, but when the neighbour's cat shits on the grass, my cat does the same. Shit wars or something. The neighbour's dog also sometimes bursts through the hedge and shits in the garden. But it's an old dog and it looks lost most of the time, so I just walk it back round and feel sorry for it.
Anyway, the dog shit is easy to spot and pick up. The cat shit seems to be a magnet for my mower, whereapon it gets dispersed in a spray fashion.
The main cat action is all about which cat can dominate our little pond. Like some kind of waterhole fight. Except cat fights are long drawn-out staring and caterwauling affairs, sometimes followed by a 10second scuffle.
Anyway, all this cat and dog action is stopping the massive pigeons shitting in the garden. So that's good then.
Something is going to shit in your garden.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
reeksy
Full Member
I thought it was the lizards? 🤔The cats killed all the lizards!
Well 650 million each year at least
Cats are a major problem in Australia. Isn't it illegal to let them out in some states? Having said that, foxes and rabbits are also an invasive species that they are looking to remove.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
As has already been pointed out: cats don't have owners, they have staff.
The little sods expect me to deliver a running all-you-can-eat buffet 24/7, and cater their numerous demands for comfort and in return they destroy our furniture
This is still preferable to dog ownership IMHO though, as I don't have to follow them around picking up their shite. They do that in other peoples gardens, obviously 😀
One would assume that a) you have a cat and b) couldn’t care less where it craps.
Three rescue cats. I don't care where they shit as it's my garden or the adjacent fields. The neighbours all have cats and/or dogs (which sometimes shit in my garden) and none of us are bothered so all good. Besides, our garden is managed as a wildlife garden rather than a perfectly manicured RHS show entry so we care even less.
Have you considered astroturf? Nice and clean and nowhere for the cats to shit. You can put some raised beds up with a cage around them. The alternative is enclosing your garden in a big cage of chicken wire to keep the critters out. Problem solved! 🙂
At least cats try to hide or bury it,
Not very hard, if my garden is anything to go by.
Put some welders gloves on and hammer a frozen sausage into the neighbours cat. Problem solved.
Where do we stand on budgerigars?
Honestly though, internet snipeyness aside, we all have our rationality blindspots, and I genuinely think this is yours.
I dunno. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure I know what you're referring to. I just like scratching at assumptions.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
Good point. I'll take a spade to the necks of our three immediately, it'll be for the best. How do you feel about KFC?
There is no doubt in my mind that if we hadn't adopted the ginger idiot above, she wouldn't have survived.
Where do we stand on budgerigars?
Carefully I suppose. They look squishy.
Not making a whole lot of sense there Daz.
Astroturf makes loads of sense if you want to avoid cat shit. They won't go near it. Anyway, we're looking at this the wrong way. Perhaps the problem isn't cats, perhaps it's gardens? If everyone got rid of their gardens and allowed them to rewild it would more than make up for the wildlife lost to cats and you wouldn't care about the shit.
Having been sat in said (rather lovely) garden of @Harry_the_Spider only last week, if you're imagining manicured lawns then you couldn't be wider of the mark
Astroturf makes loads of sense if you want to avoid cat shit. They won’t go near it.
The previous owners of my house had fake grass put in the back garden, and I'm sorry to say that this is fake news.
I’ve never understood the outrage caused by cats shitting in gardens. Presumably those bothered about this are also outraged at badgers, birds, foxes and other wild animals doing the same?
99.9% of the population are living on something more like a housing estate than country estate and don't have to deal with badgers, and only the occasional suburban fox.
Cat's however will have a loud fight at 3am over who has shitting rights over my raised beds.
Is there a more socially selfish form or pet ownership that cat ownership, specifically those who allow their cats out at night?
I think the problem stems from the selfishness of humans. Domestication of wild animals, mass murder of wildlife and destruction of eco-systems, laying waste to natural resources, breading more of the damn humans until we're left with a dustbowl of a planet. What other type of mammal would behave so inconsiderately and disgracefully. And their constant 'me me me me me' attitude at everyday life and whining about it on the internet. Infuriating.
Why is having kids ok..
They grow up, polute and occasionally kill one and other or start ****y posts on a mtb forum
Why is having kids ok..
Otherwise we'd run out of people to look after all these pets, obviously.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
In what way?
Because if you can reduce pet ownership down to being unethical as a result of the carbon footprint or ethics of keeping a Labrador alive past it's normal 2-3 year lifetime, then all human existence and everything we create is unethical because it either has a carbon footprint or prolongs ours or others suffering.
Why is having kids ok..
They grow up, polute and occasionally kill one and other or start **** posts on a mtb forum
I saw one having a piss in the street a couple of days ago.
What other type of mammal would behave so inconsiderately and disgracefully.
I've hears that koala bears, despite looking cute are actually right bastards!
I reckon they wouldn't think twice about poisoning a chalk steam with some industrial effluent
They're not even bears!
When my cat starts wanging poo-filled plastic bags into trees I'll start giving a monkeys.
Cats > Dogs.
times eleventy 🙂
Nevermind cats what about the carbon footprint of children and all the new houses required to house them? That must kill loads of birds. Actually let's all just commit suicide as we obviously can't possibly all exist together without someone getting upset.
Wind turbines. 😉 wiping them out by the flock.
Right? Isn't it windy enough already?
The RSPB have asked that cat owners keep their pets inside during dawn and dusk, for the breeding season. This is a polite request.
Cats kill around 27 million birds per year.
Oh and cats don't always bury their poo. I find it in my veg patches and flower beds, in the 'no mow May' long grass.
Cats fight with hedgehogs, foxes and badgers.
Our wildlife population is falling rapidly but cat ownership is increasing.
OP - I'm completely with you, that a cat getting in through a window at night and dropping a bird onto your child's bed is not acceptable.
Signed bunnyhop cat and horse lover.
So this is a cat photo thread now, right?
Check out Oliver,
https://imgur.com/a/3sDnQPN
I once (accidentally) ran over a magpie so I'm fairly sure I've killed more birds then he has*, but then he normally looks like this
https://imgur.com/a/iq0i0Fm
This was him after being rescued by the RSPCA and then after being with us for a while
https://imgur.com/a/1O7C8fL
Pretty sure he's happy with the morals of pet 'ownership'.
*Although he is partial to a bit of roast duck.
Cats fight with hedgehogs, foxes and badgers.
Sounds like a tough neighborhood.
Kitty McGee waiting for innocent birds to land on the feeding table and fly into her mouth.
The monster.
Eddie baby: an optimist, I like it.
The UK ecosystem is utterly buggered anyway so I don't mind my cats reducing the mice / rat / squirrel / rabbit population somewhat (very rarely get a bird). If you're worried about cats impact on ecology for god's sake don't go for a walk in the lakes.
It's fair to say I'm on the fence on the whole Cats vs Dogs thing...
I've never had to kick a cat that's chasing my on my bike. I've had to kick a dog. I enjoyed it.
Pointless noisy crapping dirty creatures. A bit like children. Ship them all off to Korea to be eaten I say.
Children ownership. Contributing to overpopulation, offensively noisy in cafés, pubs and restaurants, continually having sticky faces etc etc
What other type of mammal would behave so inconsiderately and disgracefully.
Dolphins are utter cee you next Tuesday's
It takes them about 20mim a day to catch sufficient fish to eat for food, the rest of their behaviour is purely for the sake of it.
Ohh look, that pod of dolphins is playing with the babby orca, ohh look they've seperated it from its pod with lots of noise, bullied it, and now pinning it underwater untill it's drowned.
Ohh look, the dolphins are being cute with the pregnant lady trying to encourage her out to sea to a safe place to give birth. Wait, no, they're ramming her stomach and pinning her under water.
Dolphins will use their echo location to find the soft organs of other mammals to attack, not for food, just for shits and giggles.
Dolphins will gang rape females, splitting them from pods and pushing/corralling them for weeks at a time. They also have prehensile penises, just to give you nightmares.
Dolphins will use live animals as a toy, once babyshark is dead they'll get bored of using it as a volleyball.
They also have prehensile penises
Prehensile is a weird word isn't it. Do we also have hensile? Posthensile?
just to give you nightmares.
From what (very) little I know, the sex lives of animals is not something most sane people should be digging at. I'd like to think that I'm pretty broad-minded, but I once accidentally read a story about a monkey using a frog as a Fleshlight and I'm out of here.
I’m completely with you, that a cat getting in through a window at night and dropping a bird onto your child’s bed is not acceptable.
Absolutely irresponsible adult owner of the child leaving a window open.
Won't someone think of the children.
Responsible owners are the answer, any animal.
I never ever want to deal with what I did have to do a couple of nights ago.
****in shit owners. I possibly could have lost my face what I did but we do to save both animals. Unfortunately the cat died but the dog didn't get its eye balls burst as I couldn't find them. It let go after my thumbs went in its throat.
Total shit dog owners. I am still traumatised as i was close to killing the dog. Despite it being smallish, between my legs, fark me this was an evil animal. A child would have been killed the same. Still shook up as I could have lost my face as I was trying to calm the bastard down.
I can probably guess how replies to that are going to go, but you just react.
I gained a cat for the couple of years he lasted, after one morning coming downstairs to find two big dogs playing tug-o-war with him. I ran out screaming and they took boggarts, it was only after I'd got back from the vet and the hospital that it really dawned on me how badly that could have gone.
Astroturf makes loads of sense if you want to avoid cat shit. They won’t go near it.
Quick, tell this cat.
Astroturf makes loads of sense if you want to avoid cat shit. They won’t go near it.
Please can you have a word with one of the 7 cats the various neighbours have around us, because one is happy crapping on our astroturf (And all the others elsewhere in the garden).
Cats kill around 27 million birds per year.
Sounds like a lot but - serious question - how many birds would have been taken by the other native predators we've killed or seriously depleted? Are cat hunting patterns equivalent to polecats, weasels, pine martens and so on?
One of our killer's is following this thread with interest,, well as much interest as she ever does to stuff she can't chase, eat, drop on a bed etc.
Cat's are great, dogs are great but let's all accept they are great in different ways?
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We have a cat and a dog.
Consideration is key as in every thing.
Cat doesn’t catch birds or animals of any kind. Does go into the back garden - when we are outside with her. Doesn’t defecate outside - let alone in other gardens.
Dog goes on regular walks - even where cyclists are present. Always walked on a short lead, doesn’t jump up at people. Always pick up his poo and put it in a biodegradable bag and carry it home.
It’s not hard.
Molgrips - 27,000,000 birds taken and killed by cats is a huge amount. Yes birds are predated by raptors, and other mammals, but we humans can't do much about that. All the RSPB are asking is to keep a cat inside - dawn and dusk for a few months of the year. We managed it with our much loved cat, but other entitled pet owners don't seem to want to.
As a lover of all wildlife, it has to be looked after.
fossy - what you've been through is horrendous, did it happen in Marple?
Cats are great, dogs are great but let’s all accept they are great in different ways?
Compromise? On STW? Are you new here? 😂