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Just a thought after reading some of mrsconsequences crash post, and otherwise totally unrelated.
But wouldn't it make sense if your insurance company sent out a disc like a tax disc which had to be displayed in the windscreen? Would make uninsured drivers much easier for the police to spot...
Any thoughts?
Aren't they picked up on the pnc checks anyway so they know without even having to stop you? I think that's what my police copper sister tells me but I guess that does depend on having the correct reg plate on....
True, but I've been stopped when my tax disc has fallen off onto the floor, so they do use their eyes as well as their computers!
This idea contains logic and simplicity, and is a blindngly obvious solution to a problem.
Therefore it would never work in this country.
On the other hand, if you could conjure up an unnecessarily over-complicated, unbelievably expensive & unmanageable system that could be poorly implemented, then you'd be onto a winner...
Most (well many) of the uninsured sign up for insurance, get the certificate, then cancel the direct debit. So it wouldn't work, unless the bank was obliged to see evidence of that certificate/disc destroyed or returned before cancelling the DD.
Always wondered why myself - when they were made a requirement due to shedloads driving without insurance, not having an up-to-date one in the windscreen was almost a badge of shame - everyone could see that you weren't insured.
I suppose someone would fake them now, but computers/printers/photoshop weren't accessible back then. Nor were there any kind of ANPR systems available.
To be caught by ANPR requires you to be out on the road driving (unless the bizzies are doing a roadside sweep) - I'd rather there was a system where uninsured drivers were afraid to take their cars out in the first place.
One thing is for sure, there will always be bastards who just couldn't give a shit about you.
They do it in France - Little sticker in the window.
Is there a country that has it on the number plate?
Most (well many) of the uninsured sign up for insurance, get the certificate, then cancel the direct debit
This. You need insurance to get a tax disc anyway, so why does it make a diffrence? For people who want to invade insurance, I really don't see what it adds.
Police cars can scan number plates and tell straight away whether someone is insured.
I'd rather there was a system where uninsured drivers were afraid to take their cars out in the first place.
The new laws that have come into place this week go some way to addressing that. Basically unless your car is declared SORN then it has to be insured, if not you will get a letter telling you to insure it followed up by a fine or further penalties...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13836625
As with so many things, enforcement of existing laws would be more efficient than creating new ones.
Stick an ANPR camera in every speed camera van and a pursuit car in the next layby.
The new laws that have come into place this week go some way to addressing that. Basically unless your car is declared SORN then it has to be insured, if not you will get a letter telling you to insure it followed up by a fine or further penalties...
Ah yes, I remember hearing something like that a while back. Good stuff then. Hope it works.
yep. Crushing uninsured cars is the way forward, as they also tend to be the older, poorly maintained ones as well.
For people who want to invade insurance, I really don't see what it adds.
Indeed - planes, bombs and guns will be of much more use than a piece of paper 🙂
Or do what the Aussies / kiwis do and build your 3rd party insurance into the road tax fees. Flat rate for everyone,
Youre then free to add any additional cover at will via your own insurance policy.
Just a thought after reading some of mrsconsequences crash post, and otherwise totally unrelated.But wouldn't it make sense if your insurance company sent out a disc like a tax disc which had to be displayed in the windscreen? Would make uninsured drivers much easier for the police to spot...
Any thoughts?
They do it in France - Little sticker in the window.Is there a country that has it on the number plate?
They also do it in Jersey.
And number plates. I think is Sweden.
On another insurace note. All car insurance in Germany renews on the same day....
Would make uninsured drivers much easier for the police to spot...
What police? They've been replaced with speed cameras.
Totally unnecessary IMO. Utter waste of time.
This new law about having insurance or a SORN is a step in the right direction IMO, but I'd be happier if they replaced every camera with an ANPR camera and sent out a man with a recovery truck to confiscate every car they caught with no insurance etc.
I don't even bother putting the tax disc on my motorbikes any more and haven't for years now. Nobody ever checks them, and if you are pulled they know that you're taxed and insured before you stop. I've been stopped with no tax disc on and the copper never even looked for it. It's sitting under a magnet on the fridge right now.
Or do what the Aussies / kiwis do and build your 3rd party insurance into the road tax fees.
Then they would finally have a justifiable reason to make cyclists pay "road tax" (which would at least get the anti-cyclist brigade to change their tune I suppose).
To be caught by ANPR requires you to be out on the road driving (unless the bizzies are doing a roadside sweep) - I'd rather there was a system where uninsured drivers were afraid to take their cars out in the first place.
Errr doesnt the ANPR do that then, I mean if you need to be out driving to get caught, surely the uninsured should be afraid to take their cars out?
ANPR is by far the most effective way of dealing with it so far, tax discs are largely ignored and difficult to spot/differentiate when driving by.
I don't even bother putting the tax disc on my motorbikes any more and haven't for years now. Nobody ever checks them, and if you are pulled they know that you're taxed and insured before you stop. I've been stopped with no tax disc on and the copper never even looked for it. It's sitting under a magnet on the fridge right now.
It's still an offence not to display it though, so it's one more thing they could use against you if they wanted to if you made a mistake.
True, but I've been stopped when my tax disc has fallen off onto the floor, so they do use their eyes as well as their computers!
They'd run a check too for you insurance.
Most of Sub Saharan Africa have insurance discs which the police regularly check at roadblocks at night.
Most of Sub Saharan Africa have insurance discs which the police regularly check at roadblocks at night.
I'd say their access to timely electronic records might be slightly less than more developed countries, hence relying on the manpower approach.
Having said that ... at least there is the chance to scour the population for more pressing offences.
Errr doesnt the ANPR do that then, I mean if you need to be out driving to get caught, surely the uninsured should be afraid to take their cars out?
I think you're missing my point but that's ok. All I'm saying is that I'd rather there was a big ****-off badge on your car saying "I'm insured" or "I'm not insured" before you even got in your car in the first place. I could feasibly drive for miles in a day and not pass a patrol car with ANPR fitted. Plenty of time for me to...
...child's face
...baby robin
...etc etc
But until something like that happens, then if ANPR is all we've got, then so be it. It is a lot better than anything that's been before.
Even more sensible (to me anyway) would be to abolish road tax and third party insurance and build the price in with petrol/diesel, then anyone using a vehicle would pay commensurate to their mileage.
Fire and theft and fully comprehensive could be bought seperqately by those who wanted it.
Unless there's some glaring error in my reasoning which often happens.
It's still an offence not to display it though
I know. I don't care.
The last disc I put on a motorbike was in a bling £25 carbon tax-disc holder. It fell off and was lost. If it hadn't, rain would have turned it into papier mache..... That's why I don't bother 🙂
Unless there's some glaring error in my reasoning which often happens.
electric vehicles
All I'm saying is that I'd rather there was a big ****-off badge on your car saying "I'm insured" or "I'm not insured" before you even got in your car in the first place. I could feasibly drive for miles in a day and not pass a patrol car with ANPR fitted.
Yes you could. And if you DID have that badge, would a passing patol car see that badge easier then your numberplate with ANPR?
Nope. They would not.
Which is why it's still a waste of time.
If you think a paper disc would be proof of insurance cut the corners of your certificate and stick it on your dash. Either would be fairly meaningless , the real proof of insurance is now the electronic database.
Yes, but my car spends most of its life parked in a public place, as do most other peoples'. In my example above, I got stopped at a set of lights, but if traffic wardens (damn their eyes) had the ability to 'shop' cars without an insurance disc, say, perhaps with an attendant fiscal reward for the warden, I'm sure a lot of uninsured cars would be off the roads sharpish...
My point is, cars are in the public domain, and mostly not moving - not that hard to spot the absence of a disc.
an insurance disc would be meaninigless, unless the car was insured for any driver. When you think about it, it would help uninsured drivers to get away with it, therefore making the present situation worse!
Most petrol stations have number plate recognition cameras too, could they not be linked to the database and automatically not arm pumps if it comes up with no insurance?
Data protection might be a problem with that though.
Which is the German system, all vehicles are any driver and any specific driver requirements are add-ons. So much simpler than over here.
Well, as far as I can tell the tax disc only has 2 purposes these days:
1) fining people who have tax, just for failing to display
2) reminding me 2 weeks after mine expires that I should really do something about it
It's not needed for enforcement for the same reason insurance and MOT discs aren't needed, it's all on computer.
Link to inland revenue and pay out of tax earnings?
My French car can be driven by anyone and has an insurance sticker on the windscreen. If it were fully comp the excess would go up with younger drivers but as it's on minimal insurance the cover is the same. The number of uninsured drivers on the road is still high though, as is the number that don't have a driving licence (30 000+ caught in a single year IIRC).
So many people pay by direct debit: set up insurance, get certificate etc, make first payment then cancel. Same would happen with an insurance disc, it wouldn't mean anything, the only way to be sure is for it to be checked on a database.
The number of traffic police should be quadrupled, ANPR cameras on all forecourts which automatically shut off the pumps if a car shows as no tax/insurance/MOT, anyone found driving with no tax or insurance to get a massive fine and/or jail time, random car safety checks (I heard somewhere that 1 in 10 cars on the roads would fail MOT) all combined with a comprehensive public information drive about it and serious investment in alternative transport options.
But that's just way too expensive and too unpopular for any government to even consider...