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Talking recently to my sister who said she didn't want my nephew to have a mobile at the age of 10 but she's given in because all his friend's parents have bought one.
A few days later another friend said exactly the same.
Today my best friend phoned to say she doesn't want to buy her 2 boys all the latest gadgets but she feels pressurised into by all the other parents.
Finally my cousin said the same thing regarding his 2 children last month.
So, why aren't these parents who all seem to be singing off the same hymn sheet just saying 'no' and being the first to set a trend?
Because they want to fit in with all the cool parents.
if you ask my kids all I ever say is no (across a range of volumes depending on the situation). I've no issues in stopping/not letting them do something just because everyone else is doing it.
Go back 100 years and they were saying the same thing about shoes.
I've always though that the inability to say 'no' is how most people get into the parenthood mess in the first place.
If they had said "no" in the first instance, they wouldn't now find themselves having to deal with this first world problem.
My kids will get phones when they start secondary school. He knows this and is fine with it. Having fun watching other parents cave in early.
Talking recently to my sister who said she didn't want my nephew to have a mobile at the age of 10 but she's given in because all his friend's parents have bought one.
it seems like a big deal at the time but they soon forget about it. Often goes full circle because its the wrong kind or it no longer cool to have one
Win-win to say no
Having fun watching other parents cave in early.
or maybe they just don't give a shit?
My daughter is 10 - and only a couple of her friends have mobile phones. She'll get a phone when she starts secondary school.
They all have a tablet/iPod of some sort though (ours included) and communicate constantly via FaceTime and text.
So, why aren't these parents who all seem to be singing off the same hymn sheet just saying 'no' and being the first to set a trend?
It's when parents don't have particularly great reasons for saying no in the first place, or they would prefer a certain thing didn't happen but it's really not that bad if it does.
"Mum, can I have a .22 rifle?" Obvious not, most parents would hold out on that one.
"Mum, can I have a Nintendo DS?" Well no, because they are expensive and some vague waffle about attention spans and socialising, but really we know they aren't that evil really so our resolve isn't all that strong....
My kid is 10 and has a smart phone - stops him nicking mine all the time 🙂
We got our daughter a phone when she started making her own way to and from school and sometimes stopped in the park with her friends to play (she was about 9).
With most of this sort of thing we tend to buy it based on need rather than an arbitrary age/life event.
My kid is 10 and has a smart phone - stops him nicking mine all the time
I did the same with my porn.
but she feels pressurised into by all the other parents.
Thankfully mrshora is quite 'Yorkshire' in her thinking. She sees swimming lessons and riding his bike as more important than toys.
One thing I'd like to look into is a tracking device (not a phone) - if they ever make one small enough to fit into the lining of clothing etc.
Uncle Solo said no to a mobile phone and continues to do so. Of course, this should have brought about the end of the world by now. I'm still waiting.
I reckon there was less harm done saying no, on this one.
😐
[i]if they ever make one small enough to fit into the lining of clothing etc. [/i]
Intramuscular Spot tracker anyone?
She sees swimming lessons and riding his bike as more important than toys.
My daughter must be very gifted then, as she swims, rides bikes [b]and[/b] uses an iPad and smart phones - often all in the same day!
[i]she swims, rides bikes and uses an iPad[/i]
The modern Triathlon 🙂
Why don't parents say no? Because saying yes is the easiest way to a quiet life I guess.
One thing I'd like to look into is a tracking device (not a phone) - if they ever make one small enough to fit into the lining of clothing etc.
[url= http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/libs-plan-to-microchip-suspects-by-sniper-rifle-20130830-2sw8k.html ]Hora - how about this?[/url]
My daughter must be very gifted then, as she swims, rides bikes and uses an iPad and smart phones - often all in the same day!
Oh we dont have lectricity in these parts. The light disk in the sky bringeth light.
one of the first things i'm going to buy my kid is a rifle, best way to avoid bullying by far.
i'd rather my kid knew the safe handling of a gun from an early age than was bullied, the knock-on effects of bullying are well documented... most bullying victims either commit suicide, end up working in IT or worse case scenario, end up working as a security guard. 😯
plus, i wont ever have to buy meat for my kid as it'll hunt its own.
same as a mobile phone, when it can hunt enough meat to sell to pay for its own credit, it can buy itself a mobile phone.
these are the rules, and they will not do you wrong.
Oh dear.
🙄
about a dozen 10yr old girls that my girls play with.. always had the ''but all my friends stay up until 9.30 everynight conversation'' so one night me and the mrs crumbled.. took ours round each of the other girls homes to find out what they were watching on tv just after 9.. all bar one unsurprsingly were tucked up in bed.
when the but my mates all have one conversations started with phones a similar ploy revealed 3 had phones ( one an i phone 5) two had toy phones and the others had nowt..
dont accept BS dont accept he says she says dont react to anything unless it warrants dialling 999 and life will be bliss..
@Bunnyhop - much easier to give in than make a stand.
Ours got a cheap and nasty mobile at 11 when they went to a school out of the village because the bus network is a bit flaky.
When they turned 14 they have each upgraded to cheap Android smartphones, eldest is 16 and happy with his.
Too many weak and/or lazy parents imo. Too much effort to say 'no' and to spell out the reasons why not. Who wants a precious brat? 😐
When ours were growing up, we did things 'differently' to other parents. I would say that they're all the better for it. 😀
😉
kids are great manipulators.
some parents take the easy path.
some days its hard not too...
kids need phones. teenage girls need phones moreso.
things are a little bit differant to when folk on here were kids.
When I was young we didn't even have the word 'yes'.
Every now and again when we asked Father if we were due a beating and we'd hear him utter 'aye', or 'thee be reet'!
And we were grateful too.
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whenever you can't be bothered to say no, just get the box of shame out the cupboard and tell your kid every time they ask a kitten/santa/baby/schoolfriend dies or something.
you lot make parenting sound difficult, chill out and accept you're going to screw your kids up no matter how hard you try not to, its how these things work!
Its not so much that saying no to the gadgets (though the shear volume of 'stuff' some of my 8 year old daughters friends own is staggering).
What really gets my back up is the absolute refusal of some parents to point out to their spoiled little princes and princesses that their behavior is just not acceptable. There seems to be an entire swath of middle class, wishy-washy liberals that regard telling their offspring to bloody behave, and stop being annoying, selfish little brats, as tantamount to child abuse.
I see it all the time. They're going to grow up to be horrible adults
the middle class is dying out binners, dont you read the news? soon we'll be back to the good old days where tis a rich vs the poor world.... then you wont be laughing at the kids who know how to use rifles....
Why the need to say no? You sound just like your dad.
Its no big deal kids having phones. They can be cheap, disposable items (unless you buy an iphone) which are quite adequate for the kids to use to socialise and play a few games on.
Also handy to keep track of your child.
Its a part of modern life, get used to it you old gits!
Just make sure the kids understand a few ground rules, ie time limits on use, and how to look after them.
Philly - surely rifles are sparing them the real-time experience of killing. Its a bit removed. I'm teaching my kids to disembowel someone with one of these
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmFrw-TbLv8PWQ5xMioQiNCb25x4HEVoJkCqwlKDJ9ss7TarS- [/img]
There seems to be an entire swath of middle class, wishy-washy liberals that regard telling their offspring to bloody behave, and stop being annoying, selfish little brats, as tantamount to child abuse.I see it all the time. They're going to grow up to be horrible adults
Slightly off-topic, but I brought my kids up to be (mostly) polite, well behaved and respect authority.
They miss out on a lot of stuff because they don't argue the point/push to the front etc. Sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing 🙁
its a good theory binners, but when meat supplies are low i'd prefer my kid to be able to kill from a distance instead of having to run up close and bash its skull in. saves energy, and when there's a shortage you dont want to be expending kcals you can't get back!
plus, the snipers are the cool ones in films, not the bumbling fools that are running about at the front getting all killed and stuff.
You've obviously thought this through Philly. I shall be purchasing a couple of snipers rifles for my girls
Because even if I say "no", Madame will say "yes", which will result in yet another tiff over junior.
The following is #2, just behind the use of "no" in the marital tiffs league:
telling their offspring to bloody behave, and stop being annoying, selfish little brats, as tantamount to child abuse
If anyone has a solution that doesn't involve a new patio or becoming a missing person myself, do tell.
things are a little bit differant to when folk on here were kids.
How?
I was in the pub on Saturday afternoon and on the table next to us was a family with 4 kids. All 4 spent the entire time on their electronic devices and didn't communicate with each other or their parents - 'cept maybe electronically?!
... back in my day we'd be left outside with a Vimto and a bag of crisps fending off Paedo's for ourselves with no form of communication other than shouting....
telling their offspring to bloody behave, and stop being annoying, selfish little brats
Parent: Behave and stop being annoying and selfish!
Kid: Okay.
Fact or fiction? You decide.
eft outside with a Vimto and a bag of crisps fending off Paedo's for ourselves with no form of communication other than shouting
ahhhh the good old days 😀
now tell me that fending of paedos wouldn't have been easier with a rifle!
Well it must be really really difficult, as some people seem to have completely abandoned the idea of having a child who doesn't just do exactly what they like, whenever they like
Just for Hora 'Yorkshires finest tracking device'
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I'm sure you will figure it out.
It is really quite difficult, in many cases. If you think it's easy then you're quite lucky and should count your blessings 🙂
I think one of the big reasons that my parents said 'no' to me when I wanted stuff far more than I have ever said it to my kids is because they couldn't afford to say 'yes'.
If you get to the point where they are of an age to require
telling to bloody behave, and stop being annoying, selfish little brats
The boat may have already sailed and be steaming towards the horizon.
rogerthecat... you've adopted and adapted the idea well, one improvement would be longer handles on the tools, distance my friend... make sure your kids reach the veg first!
It's a question of logic..
Even at 4, yunki jr is a clear and singing instrument of crisp irrefutable logic..
There is no logic in laying down rules that have there basis in angst or stubbornness and materialism..
Your child will see straight through these constructs of the insecure adult mind and will pull you up on it..
Which makes an awkward dynamic
Slightly off-topic, but I brought my kids up to be (mostly) polite, well behaved and respect authority.They miss out on a lot of stuff because they don't argue the point/push to the front etc. Sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing
Ditto. Saw my little 'un waiting patiently bless her, at a party when they were giving out balloons only to find in the ensuing scrum she didn't get one. Life lesson but she got a better treat from me and the missus when we went to town later for being so polite.
@Philconsequence - local garden centre seem to be stock piling these;
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My kids can have pretty much whatever they want really, its not a question of yes or no... IMO its more about teaching them value, bargaining and negotiation than saying no for the sake of it. They arent spoilt though and they dont always get what they want, because, hey, that s the way life is. I second the comment above, too many adults are missing out in life because they have been "taught" to be passive by their parents by accepting no for an answer.
No...? What! Wait a minute, why not?
Edit; Not that I teach them to barge to the front of balloon parties though. :0)
There's a difference between educating your children not to be fobbed off with a standard answer of any kind and just accepting things, and being a PITA whining for something they want.
[i]My kids can have pretty much whatever they want really[/i]
So you're the one ! you're the one responsible, by arming your children with all and sundry, [b]forcing[/b] all the other children in the village to pester their parents to allow them to [i]keep up[/i] with your children.
I knew it !
😉
Just saying no is being bloody-minded. Saying no and explaining why is much better.
It's a question of logic..
Even at 4, yunki jr is a clear and singing instrument of crisp irrefutable logic..
There is no logic in laying down rules that have there basis in angst or stubbornness and materialism..
Your child will see straight through these constructs of the insecure adult mind and will pull you up on it..Which makes an awkward dynamic
yunki you must have been listening to Lexicon Stephen Fry on Radio 4 🙂
I've got a clear view on what's worthwhile and what's not. If it's a tool to enable you to do something good, then it's alright. That includes computers, something for playing the odd game, bikes, sporting equippment, etc. Phones are good for keeping in touch with your friends, that's a good thing to be doing imo.
But everything is to be used responsibly. We already have a no phones at the table rule, even though it's just me and Mrs G who have them. Our 4 year old pulls us up on it.
A good American father spending some quality time with his daughter
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To sum-up. Its to take the path of least-resistance/hassle. A child who doesnt learn 'no' becomes selfish.
ransos - Memberthings are a little bit differant to when folk on here were kids.
How?
in the 70's if a girl was being attacked in the street, people would intervene regardless.
if a girl was being attacked in the street nowadays, how many folk would intervene?
Ton when I witnessed a motorcyclist being side-swiped at c40mph. Only me and a bus driver helped. Everyone on the bus gawped and drivers rushing to Man Utd scarcely slowed. I had to stand over the biker in the dual carriageway trying to slow the drivers.
Plenty of younger blokes there. Guess it wasnt their problem. A match takes precedent?
One thing I'd like to look into is a tracking device (not a phone) - if they ever make one small enough to fit into the lining of clothing etc.
Well, the higher-end smartphones have that, certainly iPhones do, and I think there's a similar feature for Android phones. You just install the appropriate app, and then you can see where the phone is at any time.
Mine even shows my Mac Mini, which came as a bit of a surprise!
My brother in law bought his three kids a Nintendo 3DS each last Christmas.
The eldest (8 yrs old) has just told him it is rubbish and he wants a tablet.
So my brother in law is selling it and buying him one!!!!
*Then* he recommends to us that we buy our 4 yr old twins a tablet each because they are better.
F*&^ that.
Too right jondoh.
Our old neighbours, the then 16 year old flew into a rage over something and threw his PS3 (that they'd bought him) down the stairs. They then bought him another, despite being very hard up.
FFS.
Most people don't want others in their peer group to think they're hard up.
I couldn't give a rats stuff if my son doesn't have a PS3 / DS3D / whatever. Its not important and he doesn't want one. I don't subscribe to this bullshit that a child needs the latest electronic gizmo just because his friends have. We have a PS2 and a Wii and lego, guess which gets which gets used the most?
I see 7 yo's with iPods and it just makes me wince. Since when did we become so obsessed with all this unnecessary technology?
I see 7 yo's with iPods
I had JVC and a succession of Sony Walkmans. What WILL make me wince is the damage it will be doing their ears. I'm sure my ears would be sharper if it wasn't for cranking up the volume to cope with traffic noise.....
things are a little bit differant to when folk on here were kids.
How?
Thatchter innit destroyed society and all that 😉
Its different in lots of way clearly.
There are two issues.
Firstly we all want our kids to be in touch and up to date to some degree. Mine have a DS, Wii and a tablet [ grandparents bought mind]. They may ask to use them about twice a week but that is it. I asked the eldest about a phone due to this thread- aged 8 and he looked confused and asked why he would want one.
Secondly you cannot say yes to everything as they wont learnt the value of anything and few of us have pockets deep enough to do this.
All things with parenting are a compromise and teaching the kids responsibility
As for tracking your kids - the aim is to always know where they are anyway and this seems both overly intrusive and paranoid tbh
in the 70's if a girl was being attacked in the street, people would intervene regardless.
if a girl was being attacked in the street nowadays, how many folk would intervene?
Is there any evidence that's true? I really couldn't say one way or the other.
One thing that's changed is victims of child abuse are more likely to be believed.
We said 'No' to our son a lot.
of course, he hates us now.
Why don't parents say 'no'?
Why don't fatties say no to more food?
Why don't drinkers say no to booze?
Why don't unfit people say no to the couch?
Why don't STWers say no to bickering?
My biggest parenting annoyance is people telling their kids that "the man will tell you off", when "the man" will clearly do nothing of the sort.
My daughter (who’s 7) has an iPad mainly because they have to use them at school, an iPod that she sometimes listens to on the bus (with volume limited headphones :wink:) and she has a cheap phone that she keeps in her school bag in case she misses the bus, school would ring us anyway but it makes her feel better.
I guess compared to when I was her age she has lots of other things that I didn’t, TV in her room, loads of toys, a fairly expensive bike etc.
But all that being said I don’t think she is particularly spoilt, she knows that no means no and it is very rare that she gets a treat without earning it through chores or as a reward. When we go on holiday or out on a trip she has a certain amount of pocket money and she can use that to buy whatever she wants, once it’s gone it’s gone.
She would barge her way to the front for a balloon at parties though, she learned pretty quickly that Dutch kids don't queue!
don't get me started on children with telly's in their bedroom, in all of our family and all close friends bar one, it is a no no. the one with the telly is a lazy, spoiled, pushy type with no manners.
a child with its own telly is less lightly to get up early for school, will have less concentration at school and is less likely to walk to school.
edit ; a bedroom is for sleeping and getting rest to set you up for the day a head. imo, they should be gadget free, even for adults.
My daughter (who’s 7) has an iPad mainly because they have to use them at school
Wtf?!
don't get me started on children with telly's in their bedroom, in all of our family and all close friends bar one, it is a no no. the one with the telly is a lazy, spoiled, pushy type with no manners.a child with its own telly is less lightly to get up early for school, will have less concentration at school and is less likely to walk to school.
I had a TV in my (shared with my brother) bedroom when I was a kid. Can't remember when I got it, but certainly had it right through secondary.
a bedroom is for sleeping and getting rest to set you up for the day a head. imo, they should be gadget free, even for adults.
But, I do agree with this now.
Wtf?!
It's 2014. Quite a lot of schools have technology in them now.
Some do some don't I guess, plenty of people have different opinions about what's acceptable.
Bunnyhop, why are you so judgemental about other peoples choices?