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Does the government know something we don't ?
Surly by having these it will entice trouble ?
We've been okay without them ?
Are we becoming a more violent nation ?
Zombies...end of thread
Yes.
No....and I think you mean provoke, rather than entice.
NI has had them for ages.
You spill my pint?
[img] http://i.imgur.com/DdDgbvl.pn g" target="_blank">
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Because the peasants are revolting.
After the last lot of riots, the police said "Water cannons would have been no use anyway" so Theresa May said "Righto, let's get tons of water cannons"
[url= http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/mayoroflondon-residential-property-partners-remove-the-anti-homeless-spikes?share_id=XHZjIClRxf&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition ]It's to disperse all the homeless that will be milling about looking for a spot to shelter for the night[/url]
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Because bass cannons are sooo 90's.
Saying that, so were these, yet they seem to be making a comeback.
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To disperse the crowds
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Note that this is Boris that's bought the cannon. The government told him he couldn't have one.
What a lovely chap. I used to think he was a bit charming with his funny haircut and bumbling ways.
Of course, now I realise he's actually a tory elitist ****.
Have they changed the law? Thought water cannons where illegal to use without passing special powers? Why we only see in Ireland?
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2014/may/04/bristol-turns-central-street-into-giant-water-slide-in-pictures ]Boris just wants to out-do Bristol.[/url]
its to use on oxfam because according to some tory **** they are only meant to worry about poor people in foreign countries
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27783331
"Most of us operated under the illusion that Oxfam's focus was on the relief of poverty and famine overseas.
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More importantly, why do the BBC always talk about them as "water cannon" even when there is more than one?
PS I'd love to have a go in one. Preferably on the local chavs.
Or perhaps he wants to build himself one of these:
(true story) borris bought the cannon because germany only had them on sale at that price till the end of july
and theresa may was gonna rubberstamp the approval anyway
Thanks for sharing that Yunki. Signed.
There's no law IFAIK, but it's a really bad idea.
Hot_fiat, where did you find that Anonymous pic? I've been trying to track down a better quality version of the low-ish res one I have.
Question, in the event of large scale rioting and disorder, as we saw a couple of years ago, does anyone think that ****ting people with sticks is a better way to keep the peace?
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I figure Boris has decided that he need's water cannons because when the mass majority of us so called minions (working class/low paid) finally decide to band together and say [i]"fu-k you, i won't do as you tell me"[/i] (™ - Rage Against The Machine) , organise our own uprising (caucasion spring anyone?) against the ruling elite without applying to the Met police for a licence to protest beforehand then he can sit back and play the blundering buffon as usual whilst surreptitiously ordering the introduction of martial law and curfews in our major cities.
Oh i wish…..If only i won hundreds of millions (*) on the euro lottery then i'd give the political elite something to worry about.
* not much chance of that - never bought a lottery ticket so i'll carry on moaning and bitching whilst doing absolutely nothing about the current situation………..or will i?……... 😉
ninfan - MemberQuestion, in the event of large scale rioting and disorder, as we saw a couple of years ago, does anyone think that ****ting people with sticks is a better way to keep the peace?
Met Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, one of the people calling for water cannons, says they'd have been no use in 2011 so yeah.
It's the same theory as Trident, spend a shed load of money on something you assume your enemy is terrified of (in this case your own people) that you have no intention of ever using in anger.
because when the mass majority of us so called minions finally decide to band together and say "fu-k you, i won't do as you tell me", organise our own uprising against the ruling elite
Yes, thats what we saw - there's clearly no better way to strike back at the ruling elite than by stealing a new telly and a pair of trainers
Fight the power!
A little reminder - the police have had stores full with Baton rounds and CS gas for riot control since 1986, and they can be deployed to the police by the evil government against the wishes of the local police authority... How many times have they been used?
There is a clear and definable difference between looting (as you pointed out above) and our current need to radically change our current electoral system with it's institutional bred ruling elite that panders to it's own desires.
I've been on the receiving end of so called "soft policing polices" back in the early rave days, no tear/cs gas as such but full riot gear for a few thousand happy revellers in a field, well it was actually my GF at the time who was on the end of it (so to speak) as she received a broken jaw thanks to an over zealous police baton as she ran towards a crowd of 100+ fully geared up riot police with her arms open trying to get them to stand down - needless to say they didn't stand down and charged us - i'm glad to say (with a sneer on my face as i type this) i managed to get that policeman on his own for a few seconds.
As as for the Reeves furniture store fire?, i know Trevor Reeves through the VW Mk2 Golf scene and what happened was despicable and totally uncalled for - do you really think a water cannon would have made the slightest difference?.
Yes, thats what we saw - there's clearly no better way to strike back at the ruling elite than by stealing a new telly and a pair of trainers
Damn right! And don't forget torching the carpet and furniture store; clearly a bastion of the hated ruling elite. Fight the Power!
Somafunk, Yes, there is a difference
So why jump up and down suggesting that the purchase of water cannon is anything to do with some fantasy popular peoples uprising against the state, rather than a repeat of the more mundane and much more likely outbreak of mob violence and greed that we saw last time?
As for the plod who don't think they would have been of use, Sir Hugh Orde, president of ACPO, (whatever your feelings on ACPO) said: [i]"There is a gap in the armoury in England and Wales which could be filled by the availability of water cannon. Orde, formerly chief constable in Northern Ireland, who was speaking before the London Assembly, added: "I understand the sensitivity of this, I've worked with these things for seven years, but because of the way we used them, it didn't damage confidence in policing in the long term."[/i]
as for whether they would have made a difference in 2011 - One thing I remember about the reeves store fire was that the with firefighters were unable to tackle the blaze because police [u]could not protect them[/u],
The police, and the government, have a duty to keep the peace, when they fail in this duty (either through lack or resources or timidity in deploying the resources already available to them) bad things happen, people die, factories and businesses and houses get burned down. The £200k spent on water cannon is dwarfed by the £75 million bill that the police got handed to replace the Sony warehouse that got destroyed (riot damages come out of the public purse!)
No one here can justify the looting and wanton destruction seen in the roots last time round
But let's face it they are a direct result of our greed is good consumer culture given the spark of another police shoiting by a force no one trusts whether it's too open a gate for you as you cycle home from work not to execute you on the tube or try and dig dirt on the mother of a murdered teenager
Cuts to youth services ended up costing a lot more than they saved that summer.
Seems like boris and co have a plan to deal with rioting but not the sense to alleviate the causes
The police have a duty to protect us all, not to maintain the wishes and orders of a ruling elite to prevent peaceful protest - are you really that naive to believe that the next time we have a mass protest (hopefully carried out peacefully and without looting) in this country that the water cannons will be left behind in the barracks?, look how many protested against the Iraq war? - look at what's currently happening to Iraq in the news today? - whether or not you agree with me, we allowed this to happen………. I guarantee you that the epicentre of the next major protest will feature water cannons being brought out to intimidate legitimate actions. We have a right to protest without fear of intimidation, whether that be by direct police action, perhaps by corralling, deployment of riot police or now by threat of water cannon.
To quote "Malcolm Tucker" 😉
[i]“We are through the looking glass now, folks.”[/i]
are you really that naive to believe that the next time we have a mass protest in this country that the water cannons will be left behind in the barracks?
On that basis, how come they haven't used the Baton rounds and CS gas that they've had for nigh on thirty years?
ninfan speaks sense. Most of the rest on this thread would object to any non-lethal capability at the disposal of the law enforcement agencies.
I like those postulating on the escalation of use. There are far bigger threats to your health and liberty out there than a few mobile water cannon and yet you ponder on the rules of engagement for something that hasn't happened yet. They have been used for years in NI and aren't wheeled out every Friday night no matter how worried you are.
Rubber bullets are better for dispersing mobs.
Anyhow, why are the Lego riot-gear police all grinning?!
"[i]Approval was given for the purchase by the deputy mayor for policing. The cost will be £218,000 and the mayor justifies the speed of purchase by saying the water cannon are needed in case of disorder this summer in London.
The document says: "Purchasing at this time considerably improves the possibility that the Metropolitan police would have the tool to deploy in the summer, when, although there are no expectations of violence, such tools are most likely to be needed[/i]
Eh?….what exactly are we expecting to happen this summer?, perhaps austerity measures are due to ramped up?, as they say there is no expectation of the need for deployment but i for one do not trust the Met police.
If (and it's a big [i]IF[/i]) the Met ever deploy them in force then i hope they are very careful in their aim, eyeballs are particularly susceptible to rupture when hit by water cannons.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10654956/People-of-Britain-beware-of-the-water-cannon-a-warning-from-Dietrich-Wagner-near-blinded-in-Stuttgart.html ]Dietrich Wagners testimony to the people of Britain [/url]
More importantly, why do the BBC always talk about them as "water cannon" even when there is more than one?
Cannon is plural as well as singular.
Hugh Orde, president of ACPO, (whatever your feelings on ACPO)
Why would one ignore one's opinion of ACPO when considering its president's musings?
Most of the rest on this thread would object to any non-lethal capability at the disposal of the law enforcement agencies.
Capability there is a euphemism for weapons, and there is no such thing as non-lethal weapons, only less lethal weapons.
On that basis, how come they haven't used the Baton rounds and CS gas that they've had for nigh on thirty years?
Why is a water cannon likely to be any more useful than these (supposedly-existing) rubber-coated bullets and tear gas in suppressing public disorder when those other two weapons haven't been useful in three decades?
Eh?….what exactly are we expecting to happen this summer?
Nothing in particular other than maybe some good weather. The only thing that quelled the riots in 2011 was it started raining. Bloody fair weather hoodlums.
because germany only had them on sale
Maybe we're looking at this from the wrong angle... given the nature of this wretched administration, perhaps this is nothing to do with the riot polis. The three water cannon could = a new "streamlined" London Fire Brigade - perhaps operated by Serco or G4S & maintained via a 30 year PFI contract that vastly exceeds the actual value of said assets.
Stupider things have happened - and, indeed, are happening. 🙄
andyrm - MemberMore importantly, why do the BBC always talk about them as "water cannon" even when there is more than one?
apologies, my irony detector is set to [i]low[/i] this morning, i'll assume you asked a genuine question...
it's because the plural of cannon, is cannon.
1 sheep, 2 sheep, etc.
in answer to the other question, it's because lots of tories don't like Dave, they think he's too nice. They're beginning to posture behind him as potential leaders, Boris wants to win over the ukip voters with news footage of the 'Boris-Cannon' nailing protesters in the face.
He's got the Cannon, now all he has to do is stir up some protests...
thanks to bearnecessities...
all i can hear in my head is "let the bass cannon kick it...." Flux Pavillion.
twelve bloody hours now
As a law abiding member of the public, the Police can have what they feel they need to protect the public and property.
Provided they are not used to prevent lawful protest, I have no problem with water cannon. They are not routinely abused by PSNI, and the mainland forces don't use rubber bullets and tear gas that they already have.
Seems the Guardian reading bedwetters and wannabe keyboard warrior revolutionaries should just MTFU and work to change the system properly if they are so convinced tbe public and right is on their side. God knows tbe system needs to change.
*awaits flaming. And being extinguished by a water cannon*
Given their divisive, self-interested, inhumane and cruel policies of punishing the poor for being poor, and rewarding the rich for being rich, the present shower of ****s must be absolutely amazed there hasn't been serious civil unrest already*. I know I am!
As London is the epicentre of inequality, Bozza has probably assumed that his final push to cleanse it of the frightful lower orders, leaving it as a playground for the rich elite only, may encounter a bit of resistance
Hence the purchase
* and by civil unrest:not looting some shops for some new trainers, but a proper mass uprising
None of the above.
Boris has bought some water cannon without being told by Theresa that he can have them.
He is 1: indicating that the Home Secretary's permission cuts no ice with him. 2: This helps him position himself inside the jockeying for advantage that is now taking place within the Conservative party, of those with ambitions to replace David.
It's a power-play.
The purchase is analogous to my wife's behaviour in sales...
It doesn't fit/I don't need it/it doesn't do what I want, but it might one day, and [i]it's cheap[/i] so I'll buy it.
Is it for watering window boxes on all the skyscrapers in that london?
Or for protecting the city walls when the greggs run out in the provinces?
Or is it rightist, tough on crime, willy waving with an election coming up?
Lol @ vinneyh. It's just Boris getting in touch with his feminine side.
IMO they should fill the canon with shower gel and then the unwashed could get a shower for a change, 2 birds n all that..
Or
Fill it with dissinfectant and clear the bloody smelly shitty streets at the same time..
Or
Put some nano paint in it like fluro, you could then just squirt it a couple of times then roll up with an infrared torch later in the day and round all the squives up and dunk em' in the Thames.
Or
Fill it with Hair Gel and squrt it at all the Bad Hair Day folks so they can get cheap trendy "do's" You'd also capture a lot of Rats n Spiders and Pidgeons att he same time, the just buldozer over them laters like.
Can't see a Prob me.
Boris Rox 🙄
and by civil unrest:not looting some shops for some new trainers, but a proper mass uprising
How long have lefties been wallowing in this fantasy?
Thats all it is, a fantasy!
Its never going to happen, another series of the X-Factor starts soon!
bearnecessities - Member
Thanks for sharing that Yunki. Signed.
Likewise. Haver also circulated it to a load of other folks too.
As a law abiding member of the public, the Police can have what they feel they need to protect the public and property.
You can't let institutions like police forces get whatever they want.
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I think it's more of a public perception thing... Seeing the police beating people with sticks or firing things at them will cause the public to be shocked.
Firing at them with water cannons will no doubt be perceived as less violent.
There is also the fact that they are a big huge deterrent, in a riot the people at the front being beaten up might be crushed forward by the people behind who don't really care as they're not the ones being hurt. Where as a water cannon will ensure that a wider spread of crowd is targeted including those further back which actually means it's a lot easier and safer to disperse the crowd.
They don't just use these things on jet either, they have a mist function that is used first to soak the rioters through and demoralise them. As mentioned earlier, this normally has the affect of a lot of rain and everyone just wants to go home and dry out.
Someone further up the forum just announced there's a heatwave coming.
What happens next is obvious to me!
As as for the Reeves furniture store fire?, i know Trevor Reeves through the VW Mk2 Golf scene and what happened was despicable and totally uncalled for - do you really think a water cannon would have made the slightest difference?
It might have put the fire out...
Apparently Boris has volunteered to be baptised by one, to show that they are safe, so as long as that's filmed I now consider it money well spent. I'll dip my hand in my own pocket if there's an opportunity to fire one at May.
Apparently Boris has accepted a challenge to "test" the water cannons. Could be interesting 😆 Not that I wish him any harm personally but it'd be a nice way to demonstrate how dangerous the things can be if he was to come a cropper...
Man gets hurt by water cannon, big deal!
People have been hurt by police batons too
people have also been hurt by bricks, bottles, pieces of wood and petrol bombs being thrown by [s]crowds of rioters[/s] a small minority of rogue elements intent on violence who consistently and repeatedly use the cover of peaceful protest to go about causing trouble by mingling in with crowds of innocent and genuine protesters who were doing [i]nothing[/i] wrong
It just goes to show that a protest that begins descending into a riot is generally a pretty unsafe place to be, and that the best thing to do is either disperse and leave the area of the confrontation, or go and chill out calmly nowhere near the people who are throwing things, where you're nice and safe!
A fantastic example was given yesterday by Somafunk about his girlfriend, who[i] "received a broken jaw thanks to an over zealous police baton as she ran towards a crowd of 100+ fully geared up riot police with her arms open trying to get them to stand down" [/i]
Now, you see - that was never really going to end well was it? Now it might just be me, but when I see a crowd of 100 fully geared up riot police going about their business, I think to myself 'should I run towards them, or away from them?' and generally I find that 'away from them' is the least likely to result in getting ****ted. If I choose run towards them to try and make them stop doing what they're doing, then I can pretty much predict the outcome is not going to be in my favour...
As a general rule, if you're close enough to be hit with a baton, or even a water cannon, then you were probably not standing in the wisest place to be at that time in the first place were you? - Simples!
It doesn't matter how much you spend on 'riot control', you can never prepare effectively for when things suddenly spark off, like the London riots of 2011. And if such events happen in places like a shopping centre for example, riot cannon would be useless.
There won't be any coppers available to deploy them anyway, as they'll all be too busy in court defending their lies.
As a general rule, if you're close enough to be hit with a baton, or even a water cannon, then you were probably not standing in the wisest place to be at that time in the first place were you? - Simples!
Nice bit of victim blaming there. Classy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson
when I see a crowd of 100 fully geared up riot police going about their business, I think to myself 'should I run towards them
You'd be too busy masturbating to think about whether to run towards them or away from them.
As an aside from the inevitable and useless bickering that threads like this descend into; I shall hopefully be meeting Pauline Pearce, the 'Heroine of Hackney', soon. I shall ask her opinion of the aquisition of water cannon and possible deployment on our streets.
ninfan : I guess you had to be there at that moment in history to fully appreciate what was happening with regard to the rave scene and the incredibly heavy handed and violent policing of such events, i doubt you'd be the type to immerse yourself in such a culture and movement so i'll refrain from posting any further comments and leave you to your thoughts.
[i]Now it might just be me, but when I see a crowd of 100 fully geared up riot police going about their business, I think to myself 'should I run towards them, or away from them?' and generally I find that 'away from them' is the least likely to result in getting ****ted. If I choose run towards them to try and make them stop doing what they're doing, then I can pretty much predict the outcome is not going to be in my favour...[/i]
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Mr wopit hit the nail on the head the practical impact of 3 water cannon in London will be slight . They can only be deployed behind a police line to avoid the risk of being over run . The met are stretched to cover large riots and the fast moving disperse and reform nature of modern public order incidents . Boris bought these to score one over May who has been talking about doing it but not acting for two years . He has outflanked her leaving her flapping and blaming the police . In the current Tory infighting he has " parked his tanks on her lawn."
I will be amused if when he does his demo the crew crank up the volume and go for a head shot. Boris will look so much wilder with an eye patch.
he has " parked his tanks on her lawn."
I don't really want to think about that thank you ver much.
Nickc - just think what might have happened if he'd pissed off home when he'd first been moved on by the police half an hour earlier 😉
Somafunk, assume what you like, you'd likely be wrong - however I also remember the 'heavy handed protesting' that was going on from the hunt sabs etc.
Interesting days out them 8)
Well, why should the Met be the only large capital city police force not to have them ?
The Germans have 165 less the 3 clapped out 20 year old ones they want to flog us ! Even the Belgians have a state of the art fleet.
why do we need water cannons
We don't but the bloke who bought them off the Germans probably needs the massive back hander in a nice brown envelope that will remain secret for a bit anyway.
I'm sure it will come out on a few years time.
water canon in the houses of parliament would be great
or how about
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